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New topics | » Smith's Store/HotelTue May 14, 2024 7:17 pm by Petty Officer Tom » Zulu "Corps"Sat May 04, 2024 6:50 pm by Hobbes » 24th Regiment side drum a plea for helpThu May 02, 2024 6:11 pm by General Gordon » Fairlie's Native PoliceThu May 02, 2024 1:01 pm by Hobbes » The curious tale of Cetshwayo's "gunpowder depot" and an aggressive snakeWed Apr 24, 2024 3:26 pm by Hobbes » Lieut. B. Pohl, No. 7 Coy 1/3 Natal Native ContingentSat Apr 20, 2024 12:38 am by WeekendWarrior » Alfred Fairlie Henderson photographs.Fri Apr 19, 2024 7:04 am by John Young » Late Father's Militaria CollectionThu Apr 18, 2024 3:04 pm by A Crockart » Anson A. Mayer/MaherTue Apr 16, 2024 5:28 pm by cmeghen |
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| | ISANDLWANA SURVIVIORS | |
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+39xhosa2000 John Young SRB1965 steve.333 Chard1879 Markus135 waterloo50 cam simpson rusteze ymob Taff price Younghusband Ulundi impi 24th Drummer Boy 14 tasker224 dhragonheart Julian Whybra kwajimu1879 trooper rai Frank Allewell horsefixer Suem Chelmsfordthescapegoat old historian2 Dave littlehand SirDCC izabel LadyCat Mr Greaves ADMIN garywilson1 90th 1879graves John joe 43 posters | |
Author | Message |
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Frank Allewell
Posts : 8572 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 77 Location : Cape Town South Africa
| Subject: Re: ISANDLWANA SURVIVIORS Tue Jun 09, 2020 6:33 pm | |
| From Cam Hi Frank, good to hear from you. I'm still stuck in Morocco with no prospect to return until the air space opens up.
I think that over time, Ashby has the name wrong as their was no officer called Palmer.
Ferreira's Troop was, as you said not at Hblobane so it cannot be Cpl Palmer. There was a Deputy Commissary General C. Palmer but it's a stretch. I come back to the original point that I think Ashby has the name wrong. There was a Lieutenant Walter Parkin in Bakers Horse but I'm not sure if he was at Hlobane.
Cam.
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| | | John Young
Posts : 3241 Join date : 2013-09-08 Age : 68 Location : Слава Україні! Героям слава!
| Subject: Re: ISANDLWANA SURVIVIORS Tue Jun 09, 2020 8:36 pm | |
| I think we can very safely disregard it being Deputy Commissary General Charles Palmer of the Commissariat & Transport Department. Born on 6th April 1827, Palmer was first commissioned in January 1845, he had previously served in 8th Cape Frontier War and the Crimea.
He arrived in Pietermaritzburg in February 1879, where he was placed in charge of the accounts and returns. He was for short while in charge of the Commissariat Department, before he ...was attacked with paralysis, and invalided.
JY |
| | | Commandergood
Posts : 16 Join date : 2012-03-13
| Subject: Re: ISANDLWANA SURVIVIORS Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:58 pm | |
| I still wonder whether some of Ferreira's Horse could have been sent out with the Border Horse or FLH as they were all in Wood's column serving under Buller according to SA Military History Society. Still I suppose we'll never know! |
| | | Frank Allewell
Posts : 8572 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 77 Location : Cape Town South Africa
| Subject: Re: ISANDLWANA SURVIVIORS Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:09 pm | |
| What about the two Parminters from Bakers Horse, one was killed and one survived ( from Cam) |
| | | Frank Allewell
Posts : 8572 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 77 Location : Cape Town South Africa
| Subject: Re: ISANDLWANA SURVIVIORS Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:23 pm | |
| Sub Lieutenant Parminter was killed but Major WG Parminter was described by Lieutenent William Tomasson as:"the last man to leave and his deeds were worth a VC."
William Parminter was born in Stuttgart and was prominent as the commander of Baker's Horse in the Anglo-Zulu War of 1879. He acted very bravely at the terrible descent of Devil's Pass on Hlobane Mountain and according to one eye-witness was the last to leave the mountain after rescuing men. Described as 'A very gallant gentleman of the very best English type.' and worthy of winning the VC. He fought again at Ulundi, and after the war, in 1884 he accompanied the explorer H M Stanley on his expedition in the Congo. He was married with a son, Reginald, who was born in 1893, a year before William died. He was 43 years old when he died in Nice in Jan 1894. |
| | | John Young
Posts : 3241 Join date : 2013-09-08 Age : 68 Location : Слава Україні! Героям слава!
| Subject: Re: ISANDLWANA SURVIVIORS Wed Jun 10, 2020 6:40 pm | |
| Frank,
I appreciate Cam is away from his books, the KIA was a Sub-Lieutenant Horace Walter Parminter, Weatherley’s Border Lancers (or Horse), the survivor was Captain William George Parminter was from Baker’s Horse, rather than them both being members of Baker’s Horse.
His comments are interesting though, were both Parminters related? Cam mentions Stuttgart for William, and Charles Newman writes that Horace was from Statgarelt? I can’t find a place called Statgarlelt, so I wonder if it is a typographical error and should read Stuttgart?
The other interesting point is that of William George Parminter accompanying H. M. Stanley on an expedition. On one of his later expeditions, the Emin Pasha Relief Expedition, Stanley was accompanied by another former member of Baker’s Horse - Captain Robert Henry Nelson. At least one other ZW veteran, former Private William Bonny, of the Army Hospital Corps, was also part of that expedition.
JY |
| | | Frank Allewell
Posts : 8572 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 77 Location : Cape Town South Africa
| Subject: Re: ISANDLWANA SURVIVIORS Thu Jun 11, 2020 9:01 am | |
| There is quite an extensive thread on Parminter from 2011 started by Littlehand |
| | | WeekendWarrior
Posts : 270 Join date : 2017-07-21 Location : San Diego, CA
| Subject: Re: ISANDLWANA SURVIVIORS Thu Jun 11, 2020 6:14 pm | |
| Here's my running list of European Survivors:
Leadership/Staff CPT Edward Essex, 75th Regiment. CPT Alan Gardner, 14th Hussars. LT Smith-Dorrien, 95th Regiment. Interpreter J. Brickhill. Sir Harry Flashman VC, KB, KCIE. (Observer)
Rocket Battery Gunner Taylor (Batman to MAJ Russell) a/Bombardier Goff. PTE Hector Grant, 1/24th. PTE Trainer, 1/24th. PTE William Johnson, 1/24th.
Newcastle Mounted Rifles Trumpeter J. Horne Trooper Burne Trooper Donald Moodie Sergeant John Walsh Trooper John Berning Trooper Thomas Brown Trooper Hendrick Parsons
Buffalo Border Guard QM Dugald MacPhail Trooper Lennox QM SGT William Adams, Sr. Trooper John Adams Trooper Charles Stretch
Natal Mounted Police Trooper Charles Sparks Trooper William Hayes Trooper G. Collier Corporal Robert Eaton Trooper Robert Kincade Trooper R. Shannon Trooper D. Doig Trooper W. Dorehill Trumpeter Richard Stevens
Natal Carbineers Trooper Andrew Muirhead Trooper Charles Fletcher Trooper William Edwards Trooper William Barker Trooper W. Granger Trooper W. Sibthorpe
Imperial Mounted Infantry Sergeant Patrick Naughton, 3rd Regiment. Corporal John McCan, 1/24th. Private Samuel Wassall, VC, 80th Regiment. Private Thomas Westwood, 80th Regiment. Private Henry Davis, 1/24th. Private William Parry, 1/24th. Private John Power, 1/24th. Private David Whelan, 13th Regiment. Private Edward Evans, 3rd Regiment. Private Jon Gascoigne, 3rd Regiment.
24th Regiment of Foot Private James Bickley Private Edmund Wilson Private John Williams
N Battery, 5th Brigade, Royal Artillery LT Henry Curling SGT John Costellow Driver Elias Tucker Driver John Baggely Driver E Price Driver James Burchell Gunner William Green Gunner T. Hallaghan Trumpeter Nicholas Martin Shoeing-Smith Joseph Steer Shoeing-Smith George Townsend Bombardier Albert Wyatt
Natal Native Horse Captain William Barton Lieutenant Charles Raw Lieutenant Richard Vause Lieutenant Alfred Henderson Lieutenant William Cochrane Lieutenant Henry Davies
Natal Native Contingent Captain David Smythe Captain C. Nourse Captain Walter Stafford Lieutenant Wallace Erskine Lieutenant Gert Adendorff Lieutenant Walter Higginson Lieutenant E. Skottowe Lieutenant T. Vaines Sergeant Major Thomas Sharp Sergeant Major J. Williams
Commissariat and Transport Department Acting Control Officer James Hamer Conductor Martin Foley Conductor Robert Hall
Natal Native Pioneers Lieutenant George Andrews (There is some suggestion that he was an NNC Lieutenant instead)
Uncertain Presence Mr. Alexander Paymaster Henry Dawson Acting Commissariat R. Chermside
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| | | John Young
Posts : 3241 Join date : 2013-09-08 Age : 68 Location : Слава Україні! Героям слава!
| Subject: Re: ISANDLWANA SURVIVIORS Thu Jun 11, 2020 8:47 pm | |
| Michael, Just to correct your very last entry. There was nothing 'Acting' about Assistant Commissary Robert (Bobby) Alexander Chermside. He was a regular officer, the son of Major-General Henry Lowther Chermside, C.B. Chermside was commissioned as an Ensign into the 63rd (West Suffolk) Regiment on 8th July 1868 from the Royal Military College, Sandhurst. However, his stay with the 63rd was very short-lived as on the following day, 9th July 1868 he transferred to the 88th (Connaught Rangers) Regiment. He transferred to the then Control Department as an Assistant-Commissary on 1st September 1870. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]Genteman Cadet Robert Alexander Chermside, Royal Military College, circa 1867. (John Young Collection.) JY (Ps Will you have to pay the estate of George MacDonald Fraser to include your Observer?) |
| | | WeekendWarrior
Posts : 270 Join date : 2017-07-21 Location : San Diego, CA
| Subject: Re: ISANDLWANA SURVIVIORS Thu Jun 11, 2020 9:55 pm | |
| Mr. Young,
Great CDV, never seen that one before!!! I appreciate the correction on his rank. Frankly I have had little luck tracing Chermside outside of Hart's. Doesn't seem to have left much.
Best, Michael D |
| | | Julian Whybra
Posts : 3966 Join date : 2011-09-12 Location : Billericay, Essex
| Subject: Re: ISANDLWANA SURVIVIORS Fri Jun 12, 2020 8:56 am | |
| Weekend Warrior I can add ten 'provenanced' Europeans to that total and discount one of the uncertains. And then of course there's the Africans... I am hoping that the very latest improved and updated edition of England's Sons will be available at the end of this month (lockdown restrictions permitting). |
| | | WeekendWarrior
Posts : 270 Join date : 2017-07-21 Location : San Diego, CA
| Subject: Re: ISANDLWANA SURVIVIORS Fri Jun 12, 2020 8:44 pm | |
| Can't wait for the new edition! |
| | | 90th
Posts : 10882 Join date : 2009-04-07 Age : 68 Location : Melbourne, Australia
| Subject: Isaandlwana Survivors Sat Jun 13, 2020 6:21 am | |
| Indeed W.Warrior (M.D) , I'm also looking forward to it's release . 90th |
| | | Altamont
Posts : 4 Join date : 2016-07-03
| Subject: Re: ISANDLWANA SURVIVIORS Sun Jul 18, 2021 11:52 am | |
| - WeekendWarrior wrote:
- Here's my running list of European Survivors:
Leadership/Staff CPT Edward Essex, 75th Regiment. CPT Alan Gardner, 14th Hussars. LT Smith-Dorrien, 95th Regiment. Interpreter J. Brickhill. Sir Harry Flashman VC, KB, KCIE. (Observer)
People seem to forget that Allan Quatermain was also present and survived |
| | | aussie inkosi
Posts : 427 Join date : 2013-09-16 Age : 58 Location : MELBOURNE
| Subject: Re: ISANDLWANA SURVIVIORS Sun Jul 18, 2021 2:30 pm | |
| Hi Weekend Warrior
You forgot Trooper WILLIAM TARBOTOM of the Natal Carbineers |
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