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 EDMUND O'TOOLE V.C. Someone may be able to help

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littlehand

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PostSubject: EDMUND O'TOOLE V.C. Someone may be able to help   Sat Sep 26, 2009 11:26 pm

From: Victoria House
e-mail: vickyhouse2002@yahoo.co.uk
Subject: Edmund O'toole VC
Date posted: 28 April 2009

I am still on the hunt 10 years later for further info on Edmund O'toole VC from 1879 at Ulundi. I know alot of the basic info that is out there now but if anyone knows anything new I would be glad to hear from them.

It's been 10 years since my last message on this notice board (see below) and due to email change I may not of heard from you before. I would welcome any details or contact from anyone who feels they may have a connection to him. Regards Vicky House, England.

Subject: EDMUND O'TOOLE V.C.
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 21:22:41 -0000

I seek further information on Sergeant (later Capt.) Edmund O'Toole V.C. winnner (Date of Gazette: 9th October 1879).
First Couth African-born man serving with a South African Unit under British Command to win the VC (9th Lancers in the Cape Frontier Light Horse, South African Forces.

Deed on 3rd July 1879 at Ulundi, Zululand along with Capt. W.L. de la P. Beresford saved a NCO's life. O'Toole was possibly born at Grahamstown, South Africa, aged unknown and died Sailsbury, Rhodesia in 1891. In thebook by Ian S. Uys it says that in 1890 Edmund is recorded at being a Trooper under Capt. Heany at a Pioneer Coloumn in Mashonaland, Rhodesia.

Any information welcome and any details above.
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PostSubject: Re: EDMUND O'TOOLE V.C. Someone may be able to help   Sun Sep 05, 2010 11:59 am

Victoria House has created a website deadicated to Edmund O'Toole VC. Its still under-construction but already contains loads of information about Edmund O'Toole.

https://sites.google.com/site/edmundotoolevc/
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PostSubject: Re: EDMUND O'TOOLE V.C. Someone may be able to help   Thu Sep 30, 2010 12:23 am

Erroneous Claims. really great website.
https://sites.google.com/site/edmundotoolevc/home/erroneous-claims

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PostSubject: Re: EDMUND O'TOOLE V.C. Someone may be able to help   Sat Dec 18, 2010 12:35 pm

i have heard from many sources that there exists another portrait of cecil d'darcy with an unidentified man thought to be edmund o'toole though personally i have never come across it in my research.
those anyone here on the forum have any clues as to the location of this portrait??
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PostSubject: Re: EDMUND O'TOOLE V.C. Someone may be able to help   Sat Dec 18, 2010 4:42 pm

http://www.northeastmedals.co.uk/britishguide/zulu/vc_south_africa_war_victoria_crosses_1877_79.htm

ciroferrara. Scroll down to 4th row of photo's
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ciroferrara

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PostSubject: Re: EDMUND O'TOOLE V.C. Someone may be able to help   Sat Dec 18, 2010 5:21 pm

unfortunately thats not the photgraph in question.. apparently it was taken in the same pose but edmund o'toole was wearing civilian clothing and had shaved of his mutton chop beard.
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PostSubject: Re: EDMUND O'TOOLE V.C. Someone may be able to help   Tue Oct 04, 2011 11:35 pm

the portrait in question is mentioned in IAN KNIGHTS WHOS WHO IN THE ZULU WAR VOL.2
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PostSubject: Re: EDMUND O'TOOLE V.C. Someone may be able to help   Sat Oct 08, 2011 11:17 am

Hi All

I have been asked to post the following:

"Here is the photo, from a friend who has a copy. It's clearly D'Arcy, seated, and the D'Arcy family thought the standing man was O'Toole but in fact he is not identified in the original photo. Although the similarity in the poses of the two photos is striking, and there is some resemblence between this man and O'Toole, there are also some differences. D'Arcy looks older in this photo, and there is no reason to think he and O'Toole were particular friends before their service in the Frontier Light Horse, so it seems unlikely that the photo was taken before 1879; on the other hand, although the standing man looks younger here than does O'Toole in the uniformed photo, this could perhaps just be the result of a shave and a good rest!"

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
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ciroferrara

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PostSubject: Re: EDMUND O'TOOLE V.C. Someone may be able to help   Sun Oct 09, 2011 9:05 pm

could the gentleman standing be his brother?
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PostSubject: Re: EDMUND O'TOOLE V.C. Someone may be able to help   Sun Oct 09, 2011 9:29 pm

I've actually spoken in the past to the D'Arcy family about this very photograph, their line was descended from Richard (born 1846), Cecil's brother who commanded D'Arcy's Horse in 1880-1 during the 1st Boer War. Cecil (born 1850) did have a younger brother, William (born 1856), but he died in 1863. So I think we can discount it as being his brother.

The family were adamant it was O'Toole in the Durban photograph with Cecil D'Arcy.

kwaJimu1879
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PostSubject: Re: EDMUND O'TOOLE V.C. Someone may be able to help   Sun Oct 09, 2011 10:51 pm

ive heard that theres a photo taken in the 1860s of d'arcy in kingwilliams town? something to do with a theatrical perfomance i beleive
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PostSubject: Re: EDMUND O'TOOLE V.C. Someone may be able to help   Mon Oct 10, 2011 4:32 am

That was later whilst he was in the CMR I believe.



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PostSubject: Re: EDMUND O'TOOLE V.C. Someone may be able to help   Mon Oct 10, 2011 6:23 pm

is it known whose collection it resides in
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PostSubject: Re: EDMUND O'TOOLE V.C. Someone may be able to help   Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:32 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
D'Arcy is seated.
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PostSubject: Re: EDMUND O'TOOLE V.C. Someone may be able to help   Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:27 pm

ive been studying the two photographs for 2 hours now and im certain sure that the chap standing in the bowler hat is o'toole . i zoomed in both photos to get the ratios the same and the comparison is obvious

the same shape nose

the jaw structure is the same including the shape of his ear which in the comparison matched!!!

regards
ciroferrara
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PostSubject: Re: EDMUND O'TOOLE V.C. Someone may be able to help   Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:01 pm

"Origins

According to the The Edmund O'Toole VC Research Group, he was baptised in Dublin in 1848. He is sometimes said to have been born at Grahamstown in South Africa but no evidence of his birth there has ever been found but contemporary references refer to him as Irish. Several sources report his death as 1891 in Salisbury, Rhodesia but there is a reference to him being a resident of the "Cape" in 1900. and Tanser states the Darter's claim that he died in 1891 is incorrect. He was always known as Pat or Paddy O'Toole. His first name is sometimes spelt as Edmond.

Details

He was a Sergeant in the Frontier Light Horse, British Colonial forces during the Zulu War when the following deed took place for which he was awarded the VC.

On 3 July 1879 at Ulundi, Zululand, South Africa, during the retirement of a reconnoitering party, a captain (Lord William Leslie de la Poer Beresford) of the 9th Lancers went to the assistance of Sergeant Fitzmaurice[9] of the 24th Regiment whose horse had fallen and rolled on him. The Zulus were coming up quickly in great numbers, but the officer, with help from Sergeant O'Toole, managed to mount the injured man behind him. He was, however, so dizzy that the sergeant, who had been keeping back the enemy, gave up his carbine and rode alongside to hold him on. They all finally reached safety.

Beresford's VC was gazetted on 23 August 1879, it is reported that when he collected his medal from the Queen he told her that "he could not in honour receive the recognition of his services unless it were shared in by Sergeant O’Toole". O'Toole was then gazetted on 10 October 1879.

Her Majesty pinning it on to the hero's breast, but not before he had explained to his Queen he could not in honour receive recognition of any services he had been able to perform, unless Sergeant O'Toole's services were also recognised, as he deserved infinitely greater credit than any that might attach to himself. The Queen, appreciating this generosity and soldierly honesty, bestowed the reward also on Sergeant Edmund OToole of Baker's Horse, and Lord William was satisfied.

He later achieved the rank of Captain."


Source:hawaiilibrary
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