WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM

Film Zulu Dawn:Lt. Col. Pulleine: His Lordship is of the cetain opinion that it's far too difficult an approach to be chosen by the Zulu command.Col. Durnford: Yes, well... difficulty never deterred a Zulu commander.
 
HomeHome  CalendarCalendar  GalleryGallery  PublicationsPublications  FAQFAQ  SearchSearch  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  
Latest topics
» Rorke's Drift
Today at 8:37 pm by 90th

» Rifles at Rorkes Drift......not the usual Zulu/Martini question....
Today at 7:07 pm by SRB1965

» Farnborough Hill
Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:10 pm by 90th

» Captain Walter Stafford NNC medals
Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:04 pm by 90th

» Gerald French, liar or not?
Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:24 am by Frank Allewell

» A bit more fun research!
Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:22 pm by rusteze

» Trooper H. Boik (NMP) and Dartnell patrol Isandlwana, 22 January 1879
Tue Sep 19, 2017 6:55 pm by whizz-bang

» Norris-Newman
Mon Sep 18, 2017 10:52 pm by Kenny

» Some fun research
Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:47 pm by Frank Allewell

» Isipezi Hill
Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:19 am by ALLENG

» Zulu shield question
Sun Sep 17, 2017 6:03 pm by SRB1965

» Buyer beware!..
Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:47 pm by xhosa2000

» Colonel Farquhar Glennie
Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:48 am by SRB1965

» A number of SAGS for Sale at C Dixons
Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:38 am by xhosa2000

» Zulu Arts & Crafts Event.
Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:50 am by 24th foot

Captain Ronald G.E. Campbell, Coldstream Guards. killed at Hlobane
[Mac & Shad] Captain Ronald G.E. Campbell, Coldstream Guards --killed at Hlobane (Mac and Shad) (Isandula Collection)
Rob Caskie at a Showcase Event 2014
Search
 
 

Display results as :
 
Rechercher Advanced Search
Top posters
90th
 
littlehand
 
Frank Allewell
 
ADMIN
 
Chelmsfordthescapegoat
 
John
 
Mr M. Cooper
 
1879graves
 
impi
 
rusteze
 
Fair Use Notice
Fair use notice. This website may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorised by the copyright owner. We are making such material and images are available in our efforts to advance the understanding of the “Anglo Zulu War of 1879. For educational & recreational purposes. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material, as provided for in UK copyright law. The information is purely for educational and research purposes only. No profit is made from any part of this website. If you hold the copyright on any material on the site, or material refers to you, and you would like it to be removed, please let us know and we will work with you to reach a resolution.
Top posting users this month
90th
 
xhosa2000
 
Frank Allewell
 
rusteze
 
John Young
 
Tee
 
SRB1965
 
24th foot
 
ALLENG
 
Kenny
 
Most active topics
Isandlwana, Last Stands
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Durnford was he capable.5
Durnford was he capable.1
Durnford was he capable. 3
Durnford was he capable.2
Durnford was he capable. 4
The ammunition question
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
The missing five hours.

Share | 
 

 Deactivated Martini Henry Rifle

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
AuthorMessage
John

avatar

Posts : 2528
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 55
Location : UK

PostSubject: Deactivated Martini Henry Rifle   Tue Sep 29, 2009 6:47 am

I'm seriously thinking about purchasing, a deactivated Martini Henry Rifle.
But Is this as straightforward as it seems, or are their certain regulations in-force to own one of these weapons? I have seen one £875.00 But I’m not sure if this is a good price, or too much. Any help with this decision would be appreciated. But don’t leave it to long as Christmas is just around the corner.
Back to top Go down
littlehand

avatar

Posts : 7066
Join date : 2009-04-25
Age : 49
Location : Down South.

PostSubject: Re: Deactivated Martini Henry Rifle   Tue Sep 29, 2009 7:05 am

John, I’m not sure how you would go about it, but Neil Aspinshaw is the one to talk to. He posts on the RDVC. I think he sells working models. But he could point you in the right direction for the deactivated models.
Back to top Go down
90th

avatar

Posts : 9275
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 61
Location : Melbourne, Australia

PostSubject: artini-henry"s   Tue Sep 29, 2009 6:05 pm

hi john.
Certainly do your homework , search the net , 850 - 950 is about right, but ive seen discussions on the RDVC FORUM
it isnt cut and dried there is a lot of red tape i think , concerning working models , if you can contact Neil Aspinshaw
certainly do that, even contact registered gun clubs in your local area and source them for information. I'm sure on
the RDVC FORUM site in the market place section NEIL is actually listing the M.H he has for sale. I'll try and post the link.


[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

hope this helps , they seem well priced ,
cheers 90th

john sorry , i forgot it was deactivated martini"s you are after. i will post a couple of links.
Back to top Go down
90th

avatar

Posts : 9275
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 61
Location : Melbourne, Australia

PostSubject: deactivated martini"s   Tue Sep 29, 2009 7:41 pm

hi john.
This site offers at this moment 70% off if you pay by credit card.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

cheers 90th.
Back to top Go down
keith4698



Posts : 36
Join date : 2009-09-30

PostSubject: Re: Deactivated Martini Henry Rifle   Wed Sep 30, 2009 2:21 am

Hi
Why would you want to buy a deactivated rifle when it is quite legal to own a fully working weapon (not .303 or later)
as long as you do not wish to fire it. I collect Martini Henry and Snider rifles and there is no red tape, all you need is
the money.

The best place to buy is at a arms fair the one held at Birmingham every four months always has a good selection but these fairs are held all over the UK, you will get a better price than online and be able to handle it before agreeing a price with the seller.

It would be a good idea to have a look at the Home Office website it gives details of all the rules about collecting
antique weapons
Back to top Go down
Saul David 1879



Posts : 529
Join date : 2009-03-01

PostSubject: Re: Deactivated Martini Henry Rifle   Wed Sep 30, 2009 6:13 am

Hi Keith4698. Welcome to the forum.

I thought a firearms licence was required. ???

S.D
Back to top Go down
Chelmsfordthescapegoat

avatar

Posts : 2554
Join date : 2009-04-25

PostSubject: Re: Deactivated Martini Henry Rifle   Wed Sep 30, 2009 7:33 am

Hi keith,
Now this could be interesting, I like S.D thought you needed a licence. If this is not the case i might be up for one as well.

I don't think the ammunition would be easy to get hold of anyway.
Back to top Go down
24th

avatar

Posts : 1838
Join date : 2009-03-26

PostSubject: Re: Deactivated Martini Henry Rifle   Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:00 am

Possession of a rifle without a firearm certificate does not carry the minimum mandatory five year custodial sentence now applied to handguns, so any mitigating factors are of importance, particularly where possession is the only charge. Examination may reveal faults which prevent the weapon firing properly, and may show that even if capable of firing, has not been fired for a long period of time.

As with all types of firearm, the exemption from certification procedures given to antiques by section 58(2) of the Firearms Act 1968 should be considered. In addition to the age of the rifle itself, the calibre should be checked as exemption may be available to rifles designed to fire cartridges now classed as obsolete. No age is specified in law above which a firearm becomes an antique, but it is certainly less than the often quoted figure of 100 years, although any gun made after 1939 will probably struggle to be classed as an antique.

Cartridge cases and bullets can often indicate the type of weapon used to fire them, and if a suspect weapon is recovered, comparisons with test fired bullets and cases can be made with those recovered from a incident scene, often confirming or excluding the involvement of a particular gun.

Where the distance from which a shot was fired is an issue, comparative tests can disclose short distance ranges with reasonable accuracy. This is done by identifying the patterns made on test cards by the discharged residues from the fired cartridge. At longer ranges the particles disperse so range analysis becomes progressively more difficult using this method

Ammunition

Various sections of the Firearms Act 1968 allow different classification of “ammunition” for different purposes, however, air weapon pellets can normally be held without restriction, and although firearms dealers are required to have sight of a shotgun certificate before selling shotgun cartridges, there is no requirement to have a certificate in order to possess most types of shotgun cartridges.

Cartridges firing a conventional bullet require the grant of a firearm certificate, but where a charge is brought for illegal possession of ammunition it should be ascertained that the ammunition is viable. A cartridge with, for instance, a non-functioning primer will not ignite and will not be classed as ammunition, despite having the appearance of a live round.

Component parts of ammunition are not, in isolation, (and at present) subject to the Firearms Act.
Back to top Go down
John

avatar

Posts : 2528
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 55
Location : UK

PostSubject: Re: Deactivated Martini Henry Rifle   Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:04 am

As Keith suggested.

What firearms are classed as 'antique' and therefore exempt under the VCR Act?
ANTIQUE FIREARMS
8.1 Section 58(2) of the 1968 Act exempts from the provisions of the Act – including certificate controls under sections 1 and 2 and prohibition under section 5
all antique firearms which are sold, transferred, purchased, acquired or possessed as curiosities or ornaments. The word “antique” is not defined in the Act and it is for the chief officer of police and for the Courts to consider each case on its merits. However, it is suggested that the categories in this Chapter should be used as a guide in deciding whether a particular firearm might be considered an “antique” for these purposes.

8.2 In issuing guidance on this matter, the Home Office has always taken the view that this term should be taken to cover those firearms of a vintage and design such that
their free possession does not pose a realistic danger to public safety.

8.3 In making recommendations on this issue, the Firearms Consultative Committee (FCC) started from the premise that public safety considerations must be uppermost, and those arms which are commonly used in crime should remain subject to certificate control, irrespective of age.

8.4 It remains the case that where an antique firearm is possessed for any other purpose than as a “curiosity or ornament”, all the provisions of the Firearms Acts from 1968 to 1997 will continue to apply, including those relating to certificate requirements. The intent to fire the gun concerned, even with blank charge or ammunition (for example for the purposes of historical re-enactment displays), would take it beyond the terms of “curiosity or ornament”. This does not preclude the possession of such firearms on certificate for the purposes of collection and occasional firing. Where the “good reason” for possession is collection and not target shooting, section 44 requiring membership of a club to be named on the certificate is not applicable. In the case of such firearms which might otherwise benefit from section 58(2), but where the owner wishes to fire them for test, research, re-enactment, target shooting or competition purposes, no test of frequency of use should be applied: the primary reason for possession may be collection, and the owner may properly not wish to subject such an arm to the wear and tear of regular use. An antique may therefore be brought on to certificate or removed, as the case might be, from time to time or where there is a change in ownership. A signed statement of intent should be sufficient to effect the necessary change of status when required. A variation fee would become payable where an “antique” is brought onto certificate to allow it to be fired.

Part I: Old weapons which should benefit from exemption as antiques under section 58 (2) of the Firearms Act 1968

8.5 Pre-1939 weapons to benefit from exemption as antiques are as follows:
a) All muzzle-loading firearms;
b) Breech-loading firearms capable of discharging a rimfire cartridge other than 4mm, 5mm, .22 inch or .23 inch (or their metric equivalents), 6mm or 9mm rimfire;
c) Breech-loading firearms using ignition systems other than rimfire and centrefire (These include pin-fire and needle-fire ignition systems, as well as the more obscure lip fire, cup-primed, teat fire and base fire systems);
d) Breech-loading centrefire arms originally chambered for one of the obsolete cartridges listed in Appendix 5 and which retain their original chambering;
e) Shot guns and punt guns chambered for the following cartridges (expressed in imperial measurements): 32 bore, 24 bore, 14 bore, 10 bore (2-5/8in and 2-7/8in only), 8 bore, 4 bore, 3 bore, 2 bore, 11/8 bore, 11/4 bore and 11/2 bore, and vintage punt guns and shot guns with bores greater than 10. It also includes vintage (pre-1939) rifles in these bores.

Note (i) – The exemption does not apply to ammunition, and the possession of live ammunition suitable for use with an otherwise antique firearm may indicate that the firearm is not possessed as a curio or ornament.

Note (ii) – The exemption does not apply to firearms of modern manufacture which otherwise conform to the description above. For these purposes, “modern manufacture” should be taken to mean manufacture after the outbreak of the Second World War in 1939. Fully working modern firing replicas of muzzle-loading and breech-loading firearms, for example those used to fire blanks by historical re-enactment societies but capable of firing live ammunition, must be held on certificate. This includes replica pieces of ordnance that are to be fired; some replicas have been produced with a true bore size of just under 2 inches, thus enabling possession and use on a shot gun certificate, but with significant counter-boring at the muzzle to preserve the necessary appearance of external visual authenticity
Back to top Go down
old historian2

avatar

Posts : 1097
Join date : 2009-01-14
Location : East London

PostSubject: Re: Deactivated Martini Henry Rifle   Mon Oct 05, 2009 11:29 pm

I wonder if this applies to the Bayonet.
Back to top Go down
keith4698



Posts : 36
Join date : 2009-09-30

PostSubject: Re: Deactivated Martini Henry Rifle   Tue Oct 06, 2009 1:52 am

There are no problems with collecting bayonets or swords as long as you keep them at home, a MH does
not look complete to me unless it has its bayonet and sling.

Regards

Keith
Back to top Go down
John

avatar

Posts : 2528
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 55
Location : UK

PostSubject: Re: Deactivated Martini Henry Rifle   Tue Oct 06, 2009 7:07 am

Keith. I totally agree, If I had one for show, it would have to have the Bayonet fixed.
Back to top Go down
Dave

avatar

Posts : 1606
Join date : 2009-09-22

PostSubject: Re: Deactivated Martini Henry Rifle   Tue Oct 06, 2009 8:44 am

Quote :
MH does not look complete to me unless it has its bayonet and sling.

Absolutely correct.
Back to top Go down
Neil Aspinshaw

avatar

Posts : 544
Join date : 2009-10-15
Location : Loughborough

PostSubject: Re: Deactivated Martini Henry Rifle   Thu Oct 15, 2009 12:10 am

Hello All

Nice to seem me being spoken of in high terms on this forum, praise indeed.

As previous posters have commented. the simple fact is a Martini in 450/577 calibre is classed as section 58 antique obsolete, and quite legal, so long as it is not used to blank fire or live fire, in which case it becomes a gun!.

If anyone needs info on martinis please contact me, I have eleven marks of Martini, I shoot all of them, I have recorded the military markings, proof marks etc on over 400 peices, so any questions on reloading, field stripping, cleaning, restoration etc fire them over.

In Jan I was in South Africa, just at the rear of the Oskerberg firing live rounds at a target for the Warriors programme on the history channel if anyone saw it.
Back to top Go down
http://www.martinihenry.org
John

avatar

Posts : 2528
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 55
Location : UK

PostSubject: Re: Deactivated Martini Henry Rifle   Thu Oct 15, 2009 6:30 am

Neill, have you have fired the Snider. If yes, how did the Snider compare to the Martini. Do you think the snider was the more superior weapon? I think these weapons were used by the NMP. Looking at photos of the Snider it looks more compact and more robust than the Martini. I have never had the luck to handle any of these weapons though I hope to one day. I’m looking to purchase one for ornamental use, some of the members have given me what they think is a realistic price, but what price do you think I should be looking to pay.

Also forum member Keith stated the Martini Henry isn’t complete unless the bayonet is fixed. So if you know roughly what a bayonet would cost, it would be appreciated.
Back to top Go down
littlehand

avatar

Posts : 7066
Join date : 2009-04-25
Age : 49
Location : Down South.

PostSubject: Re: Deactivated Martini Henry Rifle   Thu Oct 15, 2009 6:53 am

Hi Neill. With reference to field stripping the Martini Henry, was there a give time in which a soldier was expected to be able to Strip and put together the rifle..

Once the rifle has been stripped how many components are there?

And finally, did the rifle have a cleaning kit, or was it just the cleaning rod. I have tried to find out what the cleaning kit contained. But the only thing that is mentioned is the cleaning rod. I though there might have been a pull through and oil.
Back to top Go down
Neil Aspinshaw

avatar

Posts : 544
Join date : 2009-10-15
Location : Loughborough

PostSubject: Re: Deactivated Martini Henry Rifle   Thu Oct 15, 2009 10:30 pm

John

I have an 1868 BSA Snider rifle , 3 groove rifling, and I used to own a Mk3 snider carbine, 1871 dated with CMR Cape mounted rifles on the butt tang. (Vince Burzio now has it).

The NMP were armed with the Swimburn Henry, in 450/577 Calibre, ost of these were made at the Abingdon Gun Works in Birmingham and retailed heavily in South Africa, by V & R Blakemore and King of Durban to name a few.

The mixed types of firearms in South Africa at the time created a logistical problem, which ultimately lead to Durnfords problems aqquiring ammo from the 24ths Quartermasters. Photgraphic images of the time show four distinctive weapons being carried
1) The Westley Richards monkey tail, percussion capping, firing a .450 self consuming paper cartridge
2) The Calisher and Terry bolt action, prtcussion capping, firing a .50 slef consuming paper cartridge
3) The Snider Carbine in .577"
4) The Swinburn in .450/577

Plus a scattering of Westley richards drop blocks, favoured by the boers and a scattering of Lancaster carbines.

The Snider rilfe is pleasant to shoot, load is 70 grains RFG2, bullet a .599 hollow base (clay plugged). The recoil is less than the M-H as the load is smaller and the weight of the rifle more, accurcy is nothing like the MH, comparable to 200 yards but then it falls away. A 5 grooved rifled version will hold its own to 300 but the mean accuracy was not as close. I suggest you aqquire a copy of Temples "The boxer cartridge in British service" with reports of the two in comparison test circa 1873.

The carbine is a moose of a thing, mine was an 1871 BSA Mk3, built as a carbine, not a cut down rifle, (you can tell by a small wood plug in the forend where the ramrod rod used to be. The bore was minto. Acurracy and Sniders carbines are not usually uttered in the same sentance, it jumps around like a bucking bronco on firing, and at 100 yards the hit ratio on a 18" square target was only 50%. You could not help but whince in anticipation when you fired it

Shooters who only acheive good results are those that have spent hours on custom dies,


The Martini IC1 Carbine did not make its way to South Africa until the latter stages, most probably with the 17th Lancers, by March 1878 only 5000 had been made and issed to home troops, in the 1879 production year (Mar 78-Mar 79) less than 100 as Enfield were concentrating on M-H Mk1 conversions.

I have an IC1 Cavalry carbine, it had been de-acted, however I had the good fortune to stumble upon 3 mint UNFIRED MH barrels that had been resuced from Greeners demolition C1970, they were still in grease and brown paper, dated May 1879. Fitted to the de-act it shoots with unbelievble accuracy at 200 yards, 75g RFG2 and a 420 grain bullet.


Littlehand
To take the action to bits for cleaning in the field is ten seconds, 20 seconds to put back together. you do not remove the firing pin mechanism, just the block. Only a deep clean at barracks would take longer.

The Breech block has five components, the block itself , the firing pin, the spring, firing pin bush and the locking screw.

Each five rifles was supplied with 1 No action implement, a general tool that stripped the gun literally to bits, it had two screwdrivers, a drift, a main block screwdriver, a pricker and a clamp to replace the axis split pin. I have some original Enfield produced examples, they normally go for £100!, Indian arsenal made types C1890 go for half that.

To clean the bore you needed two additional items, which were supplied 1:1 with the gun. Firstly the Jag, (3 Patterns 2 brass one steel) which screwed on the end of the ramrod thread, the 1st and second pattern rotate on an axis in the bore when pulled through, the later Mk3 was fixed. The other item was the brass Muzzle cover, most common was the Mk2 from 1875, this had a hole in the end to guide the rod up and down ensuring the metal rod did not touch the bore and damage the rifling. I do have examples of each type.

P1876 Bayonets tend to go for £85-100 for those with foriegn service marks, £125-150 for a good ordnance only marked. A good P53/74 will set you back £130+.
Back to top Go down
http://www.martinihenry.org
old historian2

avatar

Posts : 1097
Join date : 2009-01-14
Location : East London

PostSubject: Re: Deactivated Martini Henry Rifle   Thu Oct 15, 2009 10:51 pm

"I am inclined to think, that the first experience of the Martini-Henry will be such a surprise to the Zulus, that they will not be formidable after the first effort."
Lord Chelmsford, British Commander, Zulu-British War Nov. 23, 1878



[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

1 ACTION BODY 2 BREECHBLOCK 3 BREECHBLOCK AXIS PIN 4 STOP NUT 5 STRIKER 6 STRIKER SPRING
7 STOP NUT KEEPER SCREW 8 STOCK BOLT 9 LEVER/TUMBLER AXIS PIN KEEPER SCREW
10 LEVER/TUMBLER AXIS PIN 11 LEVER 12 TUMBLER 13 TRIGGER GUARD 14 TRIGGER SPRING
15 TRIGGER SPRING SCREW 16 TRIGGER 17 TRIGGER AXIS SCREW 18 EXTRACTOR
19 EXTRACTOR RETAINING SCREW
Back to top Go down
Neil Aspinshaw

avatar

Posts : 544
Join date : 2009-10-15
Location : Loughborough

PostSubject: Re: Deactivated Martini Henry Rifle   Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:11 pm

Old Historian
Thank you for that, in actual fact the M-H of the Zulu wars was predominently the Mk1 3rd pattern, this had two extra bits inside.
the Tumber No12 was in two peices, the tumbler and its tumbler rest.
The trigger assembly had an extra hole in it to accept the tumbler rest screw.

These were being replaced between 1877-1881, by the time of the Zulu wars only 125,000 of the 450,000 had been done, these were mainly those regiments on home service. It involved also the milling of the trigger housing and a protective dirt preventative shroud being brazed into place.

Of the converted Mk1 second pattern the leaf spring was larger, it had a second leaf which worked with the unadopted safety catch
Back to top Go down
http://www.martinihenry.org
John

avatar

Posts : 2528
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 55
Location : UK

PostSubject: Re: Deactivated Martini Henry Rifle   Fri Oct 16, 2009 12:09 am

45-70 at Two Miles: The Sandy Hook Tests of 1879

Neil I have been trying to understand this, but it appears to be over my head. In layman’s terms, was it just testing the rifle at various distances? Or was there another purpose for these test.

Click Here 45-70 at Two Miles: The Sandy Hook Tests of 1879
Back to top Go down
Neil Aspinshaw

avatar

Posts : 544
Join date : 2009-10-15
Location : Loughborough

PostSubject: Re: Deactivated Martini Henry Rifle   Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:14 pm

John
I have read the reports of the Sandy Hook tests, at that range the bullet is actually dropping from the sky, in the event the M-H was only sighted to 1700 yards, which is in effect out of accurate aiming range anyway. Against massed enemy then it would begin to cause casualties, the concept though was not wholly a bad one, in WW1 The Vickers Machine gun was used to hose 1000's of rounds behind enemy lines in the pyscological effect of keepings ones head down, without having an actual target to shoot at.

If you take this fact as a guideline, if you shoot at a target at 500 yards, lying down with a Martini, the bullet will go eight feet (2.4m) to its apogee before decending to the target!.

In 1885 the RSAF were experinmenting with two long range sights with the Mk3 Martini, boh designed by Mr Speed, inspector of the RSAF. One was a pivotting rule. fastened top the bayonet band, sighted to 2500 yards to gain elevation. When not in use it was clipped to a stud on the forend. Mr Speed also came up with a peep sight, fastened to the hump of the reciever, this in turn had a rotating dial on the forend. It was not adopted, except the principal was good, with the development in the .303" calibre with far lower trajectories it was found quite useful and became standard issue on the Lee Metford Mk1 and subsequent Mk1* L-M & L-E.
I digress, back to the Martini
One idea muted was to use the cross pin on the bayonet band, aligned with the edge of the sight ladder leaf to raise the muzzle higher, it worked!, instructions were sent out to Hythe SOM with detailed instructions, for example the 600 yard graduation on the sight ladder, equated to say 2100 yards when used with the cross pin.

Do bare in mind, by mid 1880 these trials were just attempting to prolong the life of the .450/577 calibre, as early as 1882 Enfield were trialling the.402 calibre, a smaller, faster projectile, culminating in the Enfield Martini Mk1 which 50,000 were made before someone said "have you got an order for that?", somewhere in the RSAF nervous feet were shuffling.

The .303 did prove that lethallity at 2500 yards plus was now the norm , as the Dervishes found at Ondourman, and the Brits found on the Veld of South Africa.
Back to top Go down
http://www.martinihenry.org
Dave

avatar

Posts : 1606
Join date : 2009-09-22

PostSubject: Re: Deactivated Martini Henry Rifle   Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:54 pm

Very Interesting. I did read the Sand-Hurst tests by like John it was over my head.

Neil.
Just a quick question. Is there anywhere where someone can go to have a go at firing a Martini Henry? Club or Firing Range. Don’t mind paying.
Henry
Back to top Go down
Neil Aspinshaw

avatar

Posts : 544
Join date : 2009-10-15
Location : Loughborough

PostSubject: Re: Deactivated Martini Henry Rifle   Fri Oct 16, 2009 11:35 pm

Henry

Some clubs (mine included) do have accasional guest days, where non members can come along and shoot various guns, it is normally pre-organised with the local police. Simple fact is unless you have a firearm certificate, you cannot shoot, unless you are member of a club or have land shooting rights , plod does not like to divvy out firearm certificates, it's a bit of a vicious circle.

With the Martini, therin lies another issue, as blackpowder is an explosive, not a propellant, the guest can only shoot black powder substitutes, such as pyrodex or Triple seven, as they do not have RCA explosive handling certificates.... confused?... well, Pyrodex and triple seven are both characteristicly like Black powder, but without the pong, both emit nice smoke, 777 is a bit more beefy than BP and I drop the load as it does beat you up a bit.

I am not aware of anywhere in the UK it is done, perhaps in the states on a commercial basis, as the laws in the UK are very stringent.

However, as the main part of the thread discusses, do not let this stop anyone from aqquiring a Martini, as they are perfectly legal to own as an antique as section 58, DO NOT LET PLOD CATCH YOU FIRING BLANKS ON BONFIRE NIGHT, that would turn your a antique into a gun.
Back to top Go down
http://www.martinihenry.org
John

avatar

Posts : 2528
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 55
Location : UK

PostSubject: Re: Deactivated Martini Henry Rifle   Sat Oct 17, 2009 7:37 am

I always thought if someone was under the supervision of some who held a firearms licence it would be ok to shoot.

Neil is it easy is it to get a firearms licence. And how easy to acquire ammunition for the Martini Henry.
Back to top Go down
Dave

avatar

Posts : 1606
Join date : 2009-09-22

PostSubject: Re: Deactivated Martini Henry Rifle   Sat Oct 17, 2009 7:52 am

I came across this on another website. It is a kind of label for ammunition boxes.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Back to top Go down
old historian2

avatar

Posts : 1097
Join date : 2009-01-14
Location : East London

PostSubject: Re: Deactivated Martini Henry Rifle   Sat Oct 17, 2009 10:37 am

What's this for. Is it somethink someone would buy. ???


Original Martini Henry WD Marked Stockbolt Zulu

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Back to top Go down
littlehand

avatar

Posts : 7066
Join date : 2009-04-25
Age : 49
Location : Down South.

PostSubject: Re: Deactivated Martini Henry Rifle   Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:53 pm

Dave. I think your find the label went inside the ammo box.
Back to top Go down
Chelmsfordthescapegoat

avatar

Posts : 2554
Join date : 2009-04-25

PostSubject: Re: Deactivated Martini Henry Rifle   Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:51 pm

Came across this old news extract, Not sure if anyone on here knew abou it. Published June 2008.

Soldiers in Helmand unearth British rifles lost in 1880 massacre
Weapons taken after a Victorian defeat in Afghanistan have been recovered – and repatriated as antiques
By Keith Howitt
Sunday, 8 June 2008

British soldiers serving in Afghanistan have recovered weapons looted from the bodies of their Victorian forebears.
Rare Martini-Henry rifles lost in the bloody defeat at Maiwand in July 1880 have been retrieved 128 years later by troops fighting the Taliban and al-Qa'ida in Helmand province.

Two of the rifles, dated 1874 and 1878, are currently on sale in a Sussex antique shop for £1,100 apiece.
Mark Hawkins, co-owner of The Lanes Armoury, Brighton, said: "When we first fought the Afghans, we kept sending out armies who lost. The Afghans killed our chaps and took their weapons.

"Now British officers are finding these guns, recognise them for what they are, and are getting permission to bring them back. We've had a few through. I think a soldier might pick up a couple, keep one as a souvenir of his time in Afghanistan, and bring the other to us."
Peter Smithurst, senior curator of historic firearms at the Royal Armouries Museum, Leeds, said: "The Martini-Henry was the first purpose-made breech-loading rifle introduced into British service. It is an iconic rifle."

The Martini is particularly popular with collectors, he said, because of both its place in the development of firearms technology and for the role it played in the famous battles of Britain's colonial campaigns.
Mr Smithurst said Afghanistan was increasingly a source of antique firearms. "I have been getting quite a few email inquiries from British servicemen and the American forces as well."

Mr Hawkins said: "The Martini-Henry is a very, very collectable gun – almost entirely down to Michael Caine and the film Zulu. Everyone who has seen that film has seen the Martini-Henry and knows it is the rifle used by the British in that era."
Unlike the successful defence of Rorke's Drift in 1879, as featured in Zulu, the battle of Maiwand a year later was one of the worst British defeats of Queen Victoria's 63-year reign. A 2,500-strong Anglo/Indian force was routed by an Afghan army of about 12,000 men.

Among the 1,000 British and Indian dead were 286 men of the Martini-armed 66th (Berkshire) Regiment, who made a last stand in a walled garden in the village of Khig. When only two officers and nine men of the 66th remained alive, they charged the hordes of tribesmen surrounding them.
An Afghan witness described the end: "These men charged from the shelter of a garden and died with their faces to the enemy. So fierce was their charge, and so brave their actions, no Afghan dared approach to cut them down. Standing in the open, back to back, firing steadily, every shot counting, surrounded by thousands, these British soldiers died. It was not until the last man was shot down that the Afghans dared to advance. The behaviour of those last 11 was the wonder of all who saw it."
The weapons they wielded so gallantly could finally be returning home.
Back to top Go down
Neil Aspinshaw

avatar

Posts : 544
Join date : 2009-10-15
Location : Loughborough

PostSubject: Re: Deactivated Martini Henry Rifle   Sat Oct 17, 2009 11:46 pm

Chelmsford
I wrote to Keith Howitt just after this was published, as the article was a bit 'erm wrong , Kieth was delighted that I wrote, he published my letter that Sunday in the Independent, it was some dealer trying to big -up a normal Mk2 rifle to make a huge profit.

Old historian
Its a common Martini Stock bolt for fixing the wooden stock to the reciever, no more than a tenner,

Dave
That is a paper wrapper for a packet of 10 rounds of ammo, unless its faded the rectangle should be red, the label would also be affixed to the ammo box. The marking in this format was not introduced until 1.9.1880. generally ten rounds per packet, each round kept apart heads and tail by fine white paper.
Marking
red solid rectangle M-H Rifle
red hollow rectangle M-H Carbine
Blue square Snider
Black triangle (hollow) Gatling
Brown Circle pistol: adams

1.1.1881 new codes were added
red rectangle three dots Martini Buckshot

1.3.1893
Blanks were purple paper wrapped

John
Its fairly easy to get a licence; re-enactors (I am in the Diehard Compny) can get a licence to blank fire for re-enactment purposes. however to live fire one needs to be mamber of a rifle club, which would give due-reason to want an FAC.

The ammo cannot be bought in the UK, in the USA Tex-N do commercially loaded ammo, here its a case of aqquiring the cartridge case from Kynock or Bertram (about £3 each), buying a bullet mould, powder, large rifle primers and powder. Plus the reloading presses, die sets etc, to get going for say 40 rounds it will cost around £350.

The cases are re-useable but will last around 30 -40 firings if looked after, sometimes they go and split on the first shot..ugh!.

If anyone wants the loading info, where to get bits from etc please contact me off forum. It is common knowlege that I restore and sell Martini's but I have no commercial interest in the re-loading side but I can send anyone the links etc.
Back to top Go down
http://www.martinihenry.org
John

avatar

Posts : 2528
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 55
Location : UK

PostSubject: Re: Deactivated Martini Henry Rifle   Sun Oct 18, 2009 7:49 am

Neil, have you ever thought about writing a book. I think your knowledge on weapons is out-standing.

I came across this.

The effect of the Martini-Henry rifle "Lt. John Chard which led the defence of Rorke’s Drift said that: “Some of the bullet wounds were very curious. One man’s head was split open as if by an axe. Another had been hit between the eyes, the bullet carrying away the whole of the back of his head, his face was perfect as though it was a mask, only disfigured by a small hole made by the bullet…”
Back to top Go down
24th

avatar

Posts : 1838
Join date : 2009-03-26

PostSubject: Re: Deactivated Martini Henry Rifle   Sun Oct 18, 2009 8:41 am

For those interested.

The Future Weapon of the British Soldier

AN inquiry which has been nearly five years in progress has at last terminated. It is now pretty well determined what arm the British Soldier shall wield for the future. In assigning a duration of five years to the inquiry, we are well aware that the actual selection of the proposed weapon has occupied something considerably under two years. But there remains the fact that on the 11th of July, 1864, a Committee, appointed by Lord de Grey, with General Russell as president, formally recorded its opinion that it was desirable forthwith to arm the British Infantry Soldier with a breech-loading instead of a muzzle-loading musket. So that it is nearly five years since the doom of the Enfield rifle was sealed, after a term of honoured service of eleven years, now extended, if we regard the arm as not yet obsolete, to fifteen years. During the five years which have elapsed since the Report of General Russell's Committee was rendered the subject has made vast strides. We then knew little of breech-loaders; we had not yet grasped their full value, of which we had derived from the Dano-German war only a dim appreciation; of the principles of construction of the arms, of the relative merits of particular varieties, we knew next to nothing. Our accumulated experience with breech-loaders was practically limited to an acquaintance with the Sharp rifle, the Westley-Richards', Green's, Terry's, and the like arms which were all discharged by means of a percussion cap applied in the old-fashioned way to a nipple, and all, therefore, failing to satisfy that condition of breech-loading which is now accepted as a sine qua non, viz., the employment of cartridges containing their own ignition. So that, if we consider that we have been engaged during these five years, or the greater part of them, in spelling out the alphabet of the subject, and that we have advanced out of darkness and doubt into light and certainty, - from some of the worst types of the system to an arm which, we believe, is superior to any other military breech-loader at present existing, - the time will scarcely appear to have been ill-spent.
It was a wise step, in the first instance, to insist on the conversion of the existing muzzle-loading Enfield rifles before proceeding to the selection or manufacture of a wholly new weapon. Not merely was the store of these arms considerable, but the arm itself was an accurate and far-reaching shooting machine, as good, at least, as that possessed by any other nation, if not better. The decision, moreover, indicated a perception of the true principles of the subject, which may be regarded as in advance of the general perception of the age. It implied a distinct recognition of the fact that the shooting part of a gun and its breech-loading arrangement are separate things. A gun may be accurate, or the reverse, powerful, long-ranging, and the like, without any reference whatever to its rapidity of fire. The breech arrangement is merely a means of multiplying the rate of discharge, - a contrivance, more or less ingenious, more or less perfect, for rapidly opening and closing the back end of the barrel. It is not necessarily more connected with the character of that fire than is the number of barrels which a gun possesses, - merely it enables the gun to be shot twice, three times, six times as fast. In the Enfield rifle we had a capital barrel. Could not mechanical ingenuity produce some simple, endurable arrangement for easily and swiftly opening the back end of that barrel to admit the charge and bullet, and then securely and easily closing it?
The solution of that problem, as is well known, was found in the Snider-Enfield rifle, an arm of recognized efficiency, an arm which has now outlived its many and not always disinterested detractors, and which we would not willingly exchange with any foreign military breech-loader now in use. But it is not so generally recognized, because the recognition entails a closer appreciation of the details and fundamental principle of the subject, that the success of the Snider has been due in a very large measure to, if indeed it may not be said to depend upon, the very excellent cartridge which Colonel Boxer designed for its use. Substitute for this cartridge one of inferior resisting power, one less easy to load or extract, one less reliable or efficient in any way, and the Snider becomes more or less of a failure. Compared with most other systems of breech-loading, this is one which throws a maximum of work upon the cartridge and depends most largely upon it. The cartridge is not merely the means of sealing the breech against a possible escape of gas, - that the non-consuming cartouche obturatrice must be as a first necessity of its existence, - but in the Snider the actual safety of the arm depends upon the cartridge. If the cartridge yields or if the gun does not support it properly, the block becomes blown open; and such an accident occurring in a large per-centage of cases would practically determine the failure of the system. But the cartridge has proved good enough to cover this radical defect, as we must consider it, of the Snider breech action; the explosive escapes have been comparatively few; and the system, in which expression we include breech and cartridge, has furnished, on the whole, thoroughly satisfactory results.
But the store of Enfield rifles available for conversion was not unlimited, and it became necessary to look forward to the time when new arms would have to be manufactured. At once the question arose, should these arms be Snider-Enfields, or some other weapon? Clearly, it was desirable to institute experiments on this point, to discover, before resuming the manufacture, if the Snider-Enfield could be improved upon. Accordingly, a special Committee was appointed, consisting of Colonel Fletcher, Scotts' Fusilier Guards, president; Earl Spencer, Mr. Edward Ross, Captain Rawlins (48th), and Captain Mackinnon (3rd); with Captain Haig (R.A.) as secretary. The Committee was formed early in 1867, and its first duty was to award prizes in connection with a War-Office advertisement of the 22nd October, 1866. These prizes were offered for the best arm, for the best breech action, and for the best cartridge. With this part of the inquiry we need not concern ourselves. To gunmakers and inventors, it had a certain interest; as a means to an end, - the end being the collection of a certain number of arms to select from, - it was important; as an opportunity for acquiring experience, it proved instructive. But it had no direct or immediate bearing upon the decision which has now been come to as to the future arm of the British Soldier, and may, therefore, be passed by.
We have said that the questions of accuracy and rapidity of fire are distinct; they have been so dealt with by the committee during the inquiry. The barrel and breech action were tried separately, and this separation even extends to the ultimate selection. For the choice has fallen on the barrel of one gunmaker, Mr. A. Henry, of Edinburgh, and the breech action of another, M. Martini, a Hungarian. Throughout the inquiry the Boxer cartridge-case has held its own, and it will be the service cartridge of the Martini-Henry rifle, as it has been the service cartridge of the Snider. But the bullet will be one of Mr. Henry's designing, a hardened-lead bullet, of 480 grains' weight, and cylindro-conoidal in form. The lubrication consists of pure beeswax, placed in the form of a disc, at the base of the bullet between two pieces of cardboard. When we add that the charge is 85 grains (hitherto of Curtis and Harvey's powder, to be superseded, no doubt, hereafter by powder of Government make); that the bullet is enveloped in thin paper slightly smeared with wax, to prevent "leading," and that the cartridge-case is adapted for a 45-in. bore, and is therefore longer and thinner than that of the Snider, we shall have said all that is necessary respecting, the Boxer-Henry ammunition. Returning to the arm, the barrel is 35 inches long, and is made of steel; its weight is 41b, 6oz; calibre .45in.; rifling, Mr. Henry's, i.e., on the polygonal system, with ribs running down the inter-sections of the planes; twist 1 in 22. The Martini breech action is distinguished from most others in use by the absence of a lock and hammer. The piston is driven forward by a powerful spiral spring, which is situated within the breech block. The block is hinged behind, and by the action of a lever behind the trigger guard the fore part of the block is sufficiently depressed to admit of the cartridge being introduced. The same movement places the striker on full cock (if we may use that not very accurate expression, in default of a more convenient one), and ejects the empty cartridge-case. The arm is fitted with an indicator to show when it is at full cock, and with a safety bolt to secure it from accidental discharge. It weighs, complete, 91b. 4oz.
To follow the details of the inquiry which has resulted in the selection of this arm I would occupy more space than we could afford; it will perhaps be sufficient if we state generally of what the arm has proved capable, and what tests it has satisfied. Taking the breech mechanism, first, we find that the general course of the experiments was as follows. The arms were carefully examined, and if approved, twenty or more shots were fired for rapidity. Sand was thrown over the breech actions both open and closed, and the rifle fired without cleaning. Cartridges so damaged as to ensure a serious escape of gas, such as would have blown open the Snider block every time, were fired. Then there was the test of long-continued firing, and the exposure test. This last was peculiarly severe, the arms being exposed unprotected for a week to the effects of weather, and water being poured over them to aggravate their sufferings. During the trials, the facility of manipulation, and general simplicity, and durability of the mechanisms were observed. It is not surprising that under tests such as these arm after arm broke down. What is more noticeable is, that there were some arms, the Henry and Martini breech actions among them, which passed through the whole of the tests, severe as they were. Of these two the Martini action acquitted itself the best, and was ultimately, after a close competition, preferred by the Committee to its formidable rival. A rate of fire of 20 rounds in 48 seconds has been obtained with it. Turning to the barrel, we find that the Henry defeated all the other barrels which entered against it, including the Westley-Richards, Whitworth, Rigby, Lancaster, and the .5-in. bore, as well as the Service .577-in. bore. It was superior to these in accuracy at all the four ranges of 300, 500, 800, and 1,000 yards, giving figures of .47ft., .90ft., 1.85ft., and 2.59ft., at these distances respectively. In flatness of trajectory it was "practically equal to any of the other rifles of .45-in. calibre," and superior to the larger bores. With the Henry bullet and the beeswax wad, the arm proved free from fouling in continued firing. Its penetrative power was remarkable: it pierced 14 1-2 half-inch elm plank, and iron plates up to .261in. thickness; rope mantlets, gabions, and sap rollers were penetrated by it, and when tried against a dead horse the Henry bullet produced the most severe fractures. The initial velocity was 1,362ft. per second (that of the Service Snider is 1,252ft.); and the Henry bullet was much less sensible to the effects of wind than any other bullets which were tried. As to durability, a Henry barrel fired over 2,000 rounds without any injury or deterioration whatever, and evidence was received that as many as 30,000 rounds have been fired without any indications of wear. What more need we add? Only this, that the new arm will cost in supply £2 18s. 9d. against £2 13s. 2d. for a new Snider-Enfield, - a difference of price which is wholly insignificant when measured beside the advantages which it promises to purchase.
It is intended, before proceeding with the manufacture of the new arms on an extended scale, to issue a few hundreds to the troops for further trial, and report as to their general serviceability. What tests the troops will be able to apply more severe or searching than those which the arms have already satisfied, we know not; and yet the precaution of eliciting the opinion of the Army on the subject before finally adopting the arm is a commendable one. It is just possible, although scarcely probable, that some defects may thus be brought to light which the Committee have not been able to discover; at any rate, some useful practical suggestions and minor modifications may result from this rougher trial, and we are happily not so desperately pressed as to be unable to afford the time which it will occupy.
But if, as there is every reason to anticipate, the performances of the arm in the hands of the troops shall confirm the opinion which its experimental performances appear to warrant, the country will possess an unequalled military breech-loader, and the Committee to whose intelligent and long-sustained labours its selection has been due, will merit an expression of warm commendation, which even at this stage it is scarcely premature to bestow.
Back to top Go down
Neil Aspinshaw

avatar

Posts : 544
Join date : 2009-10-15
Location : Loughborough

PostSubject: Re: Deactivated Martini Henry Rifle   Mon Oct 19, 2009 1:09 am

24th
Thanks for that, the ammunition trials actually began Aug-Oct 1869 with the bottle shaped cartridge, earlier trials had been carried out with a straight walled .450"


10.1.1870 at Woolwich, under the duristiction of Lt Col H C Fletcher, Capt R W Haig, Lt Col Heyman and Capt V D Majendie. a further trial was held, reporting on 25.3.1870. the results were interesting... 8204 rounds were fired, NONE OF THESE SUFFERED BURST OR CUT CASE. Interesting?

The rifles were extensively trailled at Hythe, Aldershot, Dublin, Gravesend, Ottowa, Portsmouth (navy), Quebec, Montreal, Rawul Pinda, Morar, Lucknow and Poona, in long and short chamber, with various changes being implemented.

Finally on 28.9.1874 after various upgrades, the rifle was approved by the C in C, for general issue.
Back to top Go down
http://www.martinihenry.org
John

avatar

Posts : 2528
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 55
Location : UK

PostSubject: Re: Deactivated Martini Henry Rifle   Mon Oct 19, 2009 2:23 am

Quote :
Henry barrel fired over 2,000 rounds without any injury or deterioration whatever, and evidence was received that as many as 30,000 rounds have been fired without any indications of wear. What more need we add?

I wonder over what duration these were fired. At Rorkes Drift, it was almost continuous fire through out the Battle.
Back to top Go down
1879graves

avatar

Posts : 2443
Join date : 2009-03-03
Location : Devon

PostSubject: Re: Deactivated Martini Henry Rifle   Mon Oct 19, 2009 5:03 am

Hi Folks

Just sticking my nose in and came across this photo, I do not know much about it, so will just post it.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Back to top Go down
http://zuluwar1879.tribalpages.com
Mr Greaves

avatar

Posts : 746
Join date : 2009-10-18

PostSubject: Re: Deactivated Martini Henry Rifle   Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:49 am

They certainly made sure the bullets were not easy to get at.
Back to top Go down
littlehand

avatar

Posts : 7066
Join date : 2009-04-25
Age : 49
Location : Down South.

PostSubject: Re: Deactivated Martini Henry Rifle   Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:59 am

What is the shelf life of the ammunition? This pack is dated 1877 with the initials SA. Which I assuming is South Africa.
Back to top Go down
Neil Aspinshaw

avatar

Posts : 544
Join date : 2009-10-15
Location : Loughborough

PostSubject: Re: Deactivated Martini Henry Rifle   Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:13 am

Littlehand
Cartridges Small Arms.

The round will last indefinately, over time though the powder eroded the brass, the snider was particlarily prone to that.

The picture doesn't look right, it's a repro. The M-H Mk1 Carbine load was not approved until 1.12.1877 LOC 3220 ,the term rolled case did not appear until C1885, then it should have the colour coding mark.

it should read
top line "Cartidges S.A"
Ball Carbine
B.L.MARTINI HENRY
MARK 11
187*
R^L

Sorry to be picky, but its just not right.
Back to top Go down
http://www.martinihenry.org
90th

avatar

Posts : 9275
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 61
Location : Melbourne, Australia

PostSubject: martini - henry   Mon Oct 19, 2009 11:30 am

hi neil.
Glad you are on board , I am looking to buy Martini - henry ammunition as packed in the zulu war.
Is it available or only modern day re-pro"s, I am also looking for the Ammunition box , Fairly certain
only re-pros will be available , I have seen on the rdvc forum site one of the chaps there makes them,
but is limiting is output to 4. Do you know of anywhere else I can source one ?
cheers 90th.
Back to top Go down
Neil Aspinshaw

avatar

Posts : 544
Join date : 2009-10-15
Location : Loughborough

PostSubject: Re: Deactivated Martini Henry Rifle   Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:06 pm

90th

I do not know anyone apart fro Carl who makes the boxes.

Seeing where you are based, why not get a copy of the "Boxer Cartridge in British service" from [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] , he is based im australia, it lists all the ammo box types, packing etc. You could make your own, all you need is good brown paper and print it from your PC

Bertram in Australia do the M-H brass, all you need is bullet heads and make them.
Back to top Go down
http://www.martinihenry.org
90th

avatar

Posts : 9275
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 61
Location : Melbourne, Australia

PostSubject: martini - henry   Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:35 pm

hi neil.
Thanks for the info , It is much appreciated.
cheers 90th.
Back to top Go down
littlehand

avatar

Posts : 7066
Join date : 2009-04-25
Age : 49
Location : Down South.

PostSubject: Re: Deactivated Martini Henry Rifle   Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:26 am

90th there a nice one in the National Army Museum London.
Back to top Go down
ADMIN

avatar

Posts : 3578
Join date : 2008-11-01
Age : 58
Location : KENT

PostSubject: Re: Deactivated Martini Henry Rifle   Fri Oct 23, 2009 5:27 am

Martini-Henry FAQs

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Back to top Go down
http://www.1879zuluwar.com
Dave

avatar

Posts : 1606
Join date : 2009-09-22

PostSubject: Re: Deactivated Martini Henry Rifle   Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:16 am

Ipswich Archaeological Excavations

The collection comprised: Numerous Martini-Henry single shot rifles (c. 1870s/1880s) of the type used during the Zulu wars,

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Definitely deactivated
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Deactivated Martini Henry Rifle   

Back to top Go down
 
Deactivated Martini Henry Rifle
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 1

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM  :: GENERAL DISCUSSION AREA-
Jump to: