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 Jaheel Brenton Carey

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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Jaheel Brenton Carey   Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:02 am

Does this name ring a bell for anyone? And whats significant about June 1st?
No prizes. scratch scratch scratch

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PostSubject: Re: Jaheel Brenton Carey   Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:15 am

Could this be leading to another Scapegoat discussion. An incident that left this poor man in ruins.
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PostSubject: Re: Jaheel Brenton Carey   Fri Nov 13, 2009 1:06 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Jaheel Brenton Carey   Fri Nov 13, 2009 2:03 pm

Thanks for that link Admin, some nice photo's.

On Sunday 1st June, the Second Division moved towards its new camp just north of the Itelezi Hill (Fort Warwick), The day's orders called for a patrol to proceed about ten miles south east to select a suitable site for the advancing Second Division. Louis volunteered to lead this patrol but, since he was not officially an officer, he could not command the patrol. At this stage, Lieutenant Jaheel Brenton Carey applied for permission to join the patrol to verify some observations made previously. At 9.15 a.m., they left the Koppie Alleen camp.

In addition to Louis and Carey, the patrol consisted of six of Bettington's troopers. They were Corporal Grubb, a Natal farmer and a veteran of 16 years in the RA; Le Tocq, a French-speaking Channel Islander; and Troopers Abel, Rogers, Cochrane and Willis. There was also a Zulu guide mounted on Louis' horse Fate while Louis himself was on Percy. Also with them was Louis' little fox terrier. Just out of camp, they came across Colonel Harrison who rode with them for about an hour. Harrison, noticing the absence of Bettington, assumed that Carey was replacing him.

The patrol rode down the valley to the west and by noon had reached the end of the ridge where they halted while Louis made a quiet sketch of the countryside. By 3 p.m. they had reached a deserted kraal about 230 yards further on, and they off-saddled and knee-haltered their horses. Coffee was soon made and everyone relaxed. Carey and Louis were discussing Napoleon Bonaparte's campaigns. No lookout was posted as the area appeared clear of the enemy.

At about 4 p.m., the Zulu guide reported that some Zulus had been seen In the neighbourhood. Scarcely had the order to mount been given than a volley ripped out of the long grass nearby, causing a stampede. About 40 Zulus charged out of the grass screaming. The Prince made desperate efforts to mount his horse but was impeded by the animal's terrified rearing and plunging. With the Zulus now closing in, he decided to run with the horse, holding the stirrup leather. When it broke, he found himself alone with his sword and revolver and he turned to meet his death. He fired three shots with his left hand as his right hand had been trampled by his horse as it fled.

Despite being hit by an assegai, Louis held the Zulus back for an instant, defending himself with the weapon which had hit him but the odds were overwhelming. It was over in a few moments and he was stabbed to death.

Rogers fared no better. When the first shots were fired, his horse bolted and he was last seen trying to load his rifle. He did not have a hope. Trooper Abel managed to mount but, as he moved off a bullet smacked into his back. He threw up his hands and slid off his horse.
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PostSubject: Re: Jaheel Brenton Carey   Fri Nov 13, 2009 3:13 pm

Extract from: "Memoirs of the Prince imperial (1856-1879) from the French of Augustin Filon"

THE FIRST OF JUNE 1879

Everything was ready for action. In the morning of the first of June, the two divisions commanded by Lord Chelmsford and the column under the orders of General Wood were to cross Blood River at different places and effecting a junction at a point previously arranged, to march together towards Ulundi. The bulk of the army, with all the transport, was to camp for the night at the foot of the Itelezi in Zulu territory. The Prince Imperial, as a despatch from the Commander-in-Chief to the Minister of War expressly states, had been ordered to choose the site for the second camp, where the army was to halt after its second march, in the evening of June 2nd. This task was an easy one for him, for he had already explored this entire region during previous reconnaissances.


It had been decided that Major Bettington should command the escort, but Colonel Harrison forgot to tell him so, and when he would have atoned for this forgetfulness, he found that the major, under orders for another duty, was no longer free to accompany the Prince. Among the fatal circumstances that surrounded the event of the first of June, that was perhaps the most fatal of all.
As Colonel Harrison asked himself, on the evening of May 31st, to whom he should entrust the mission for which he had at first thought of Bettington, another officer, lately attached to the same service, Lieutenant Carey of the 98th Line Regiment, presented himself to take it.

He had, said he, certain information to get or to verify to complete his maps. Colonel Harrison eagerly granted his request. He said these words to him, which were an order: You will look after the Prince." Later, when repeating them before the court-martial, the Colonel added: " If Lieutenant Carey had not presented himself, I should have chosen another officer to look after the Prince's safety." From this it follows that if the Prince was accountable only to his chiefs for the mission entrusted to him, it was Lieutenant Carey who was solely responsible for the handling of the men who composed the escort. And that not only because from the military point of view he was the Prince's superior by rank and seniority, but because the Prince was in reality not an English officer. He could be given a mission of great importance, but he had no right to give orders to a single man. Colonel Harrison's evidence is sufficiently clear on this essential point. How in any case could anyone retain any doubt, reading the last words written by the Prince in his notebook before starting on the morning of the first of June "the escort is under Captain Carey.”

At eight o'clock on the first of June, as his own report to Colonel Harrison proves, Carey set about collecting the members of the escort. It was to consist of six horsemen borrowed from Bettington 's Volunteer Corps and six mounted Basutos. During this time the Prince, wishing
to take advantage of an opportunity that presented itself the departure of a newspaper correspondent who was going
1 He had just got his captaincy: but as his name had not yet appeared in the Gazette, he was still given the title of lieutenant.
2 " It is a voice from the grave! " exclaimed Colonel Villiers when he read this line that came so opportunely to solve the problem of where the responsibility lay. Back to Landsman’s Drift — scribbled in pencil on a leaf torn from his note-book a few lines to his mother:

" Kopje Allein, Ju7ie 1st, 1879. "My Dear Mother,
" I am writing hurriedly on a leaf of my notebook; in a few minutes I am off to select a camping-ground for the second division on the left bank of Blood River. The enemy is concentrating in force, and an engagement is expected in a week's time. I do not know when I shall be able to send you any news, for the postal faculties leave much to be desired. I did not want to let slip this opportunity for embracing you with all my heart. *' Your devoted and dutiful son, " Napoleon."

"P.S. I hear of M. Godelle's splendid election. Pray tell him from me how delighted I was at this good news."

At a quarter past nine, Bettington's six horsemen, one of who was a sergeant, were in the saddle, as well as a black, who was to go with the little troop to give it certain to pographical hints. The Prince lent him one of his own horses. The Bastes were late; a man sent to look for them on the other side of the river, where they were camping, reported that they had started already and would be found further on. They were never seen again.

At half past nine they started. They went through Itelezi, about seven miles from Kopje Allein; there a few words were exchanged with Colonel Harrison, who had already arrived to superintend the arrival and the installation of the troops.

At that very moment the Commander-in-Chief mounted his horse to go to the Itelezi camp: " Where is the Prince? " he asked, always alive to the responsibility that weighed upon him. " He is with Colonel Harrison," was the answer. Lord Chelmsford was reassured, for he knew nothing of the mission entrusted to the Prince However; the Prince was galloping on with his companions. They mounted a plateau whence they scanned the surrounding country to a great distance; as far as the horizon, no trace of the enemy could be seen. The Prince made several drawings at this place, where they halted for an hour. Then they came down again to a kraal abandoned by its inhabitants. It consisted of five huts and an enclosure for cattle. In front of the huts was an open space covered with ashes and rubbish of every kind, where the Zulus did their cooking in common. Beyond were fields of maize and grass five to six feet high.

The spot seemed favourable for a bivouac, being near the little river Imbazani, but was it safe? The tall grass, blocking the view within a few yards, made it impossible to keep watch on the approaches. Besides, some dogs were roaming about, a sure sign that their masters were not far off. Lieutenant Carey thought otherwise, and it was decided to halt in this place. Not a man stayed on horseback as a vedette, no precaution was taken to guard against a surprise: Carey acknowledges this in his report, alleging as an excuse that the country had already been explored thoroughly, and was believed to have been evacuated by the enemy. The horses were then unsaddled and let loose through the maize, where they browsed greedily; the Kaffir was sent to fetch water and the men prepared to make coffee. The officers sat apart and talked. The Prince — it is Carey who tells this — always obsessed by Napoleonic memories, talked to his companion of the immortal campaign of 1796. It was near four o'clock and the sun was going down.

At that Moment the Kaffir, who had been told off to keep an eye on the horses, came to say that he had seen a black head rise out of the brush. The order was given to the men to make ready to go; the horses were brought in and saddled. Several men were already mounted; the others standing near their horses, were waiting for the word of command.

At the moment it was given, a volley broke out a few yards away; a troop of Zulus (about fifty) dashed out of the tall grass through which they had crawled. They roared their war cry and fired on the English. Horses reared and some broke loose. The Prince's, a thoroughbred, perhaps more sensitive than the rest and taller, sidled away as he tried to mount. Did somebody give the signal to start? No one heard it was a panic, a sauve-qui-peut ! Those who were already

Mounted galloped off towards a donga about two hundred yards from the kraal: Carey, the first to start, at their head. A bullet killed a soldier named Rogers; another of the name of Le Tocq — an old sailor from Guernsey, whose mother tongue was French — one of the first to mount, jumped off to pick up his carbine. He tried to hoist himself again upon his horse, and Ijdng across the saddle, endeavoured to gain his seat, while the animal, like all troop horses, carried him after the others. Thus he was the last of all to pass the Prince, who had still been unable to mount. " Make haste. Sir, if you please I " he called out to him.

Vain advice that met no answer. The Prince's horse, obeying the same instinct as the others, went off at a gallop too. The Prince ran with him, cUnging to the stirrup leather and the saddle, and continuing to make desperate attempts to mount. He came like this to the donga. There the girth of the saddle from which he was hanging gave way ; he fell to the ground. . . . Carey was already far off with several of the men. One of them, named Abel, whether hit by a bullet or through an accident that made him lose his balance, fell from his horse in the donga, where the Zulus presently finished him. Another, crossing the ravine at a little distance, saw the Prince fall, and thought him wounded or killed. Le Tocq, who had nearly got up to Carey, and who, turning his head, had also seen the Prince's fall, cried out to the lieutenant: " The Prince is down! " Carey did not hear, or would not stop; he signalled to the men to go on.

However, the Prince had risen to his feet. From the place where he was — this has since been proved —he saw the men in flight. His horse, thoroughly maddened, had climbed the other slope of the ravine, and he could hear the sound of his galloping hoofs leaving him. What had he left to defend himself? One of his revolvers, which he carried in his belt: the other was in his holsters. As for his sword — an historic sword that the Due d'Elchingen had presented to him — it was no longer at his side; it must have slid from the scabbard when the Prince fell. All hope was lost: there was nothing left for him but to die like a soldier. He faced his enemies and walked towards them. He held his revolver in his left hand. Why in his left hand? Perhaps because his right arm, struck by his horse's hoofs, was useless. However, he still had strength to seize with this hand the assegai of one of the blacks that surrounded him. He fired three shots at his assailants, but they adroitly swerved, and no one was hit. Defending himself, he thrust his left foot into a hole: he slipped and the blacks took advantage of this to come close.

An assegai pierced his left side with a mortal thrust. He went down, the Zulus rushed upon him and speared him again and again; all was over. The fight, according to their account, did not last more than a minute. The Zulus now surrounded the Prince's body: they did not know what place in the world had belonged to the life they had just ended, but the extraordinary bravery of the "young white chief" struck them. They declared as much later when they were questioned, and when the foregoing details were got from them. The seven men who had a direct share in the Prince's death, all present at the mournful inquiry, except Zabanga, who claimed the honour of having delivered the death-stroke and who was killed some days later fighting at Ulundi, all said the same thing and paid homage to their victim. " How did this young man look," they were asked, "when he fell? Was he like an ox that is knocked on the head? " And they replied: " No, he was like a lion? " " And why do you say he was like a lion? "" Because the lion is the most valiant beast known to us! "

They stripped him and divided his clothes; but they did not dare to touch the collar of medals he wore about his neck, either because they looked on them as charms, or rather, as they themselves declared, through a feeling of admiration for the young warrior. A few paces away they picked up the Prince's sword, which they brought to their king, Cetewayo ; the latter himself returned it to the English when he knew the name and rank of the Prince.
Afterwards they went away, leaving the Prince stretched on the place where he fell, among the crushed and trodden grasses, which bore the marks of his last fight. Night dropped suddenly down, as always in this climate; it wrapped the ravine in darkness and in silence, until the moment when the moon rose and lightly touched the face of the sleeping Prince.
In the meantime Carey had fled as far as the camp, followed by his men, one of whom had mounted the Prince's horse. The news he brought spread like lightning and filled all with consternation. Deleage saw Lord Chelmsford gloomy and overwhelmed; he looked for Lieutenant Carey and found him dining with Colonel Harrison and another officer. With great trouble he got some information from him. No one knew anything, except that the Prince was missing at roll call, as well as two other men and the Kaffir guide. He had been seen to fall, and his horse had come back without him. Perhaps he was only wounded.

What were they going to do? Would they not send to look for him? The officers thought that out of the question: the night was dark and would make such an expedition too dangerous. " But," Deleage insisted, " the moon will rise presently and the country will be nearly as light as in the day." His impatience was met by a gloomy silence. Orders were given for the next morning, and at seven o'clock on the second of June, the whole of the cavalry moved off
Under General Marshall's orders. It was Captain Molyneux, Lord Chelmsford's aide-de-camp, who related what happened in the report he was told to make to his chief.

The court-martial charged with judging the events of the first of June and Lieutenant Carey's responsibility for the sad result of that day was opened about the middle of June, as soon as active operations allowed Lord Chelmsford's troops sufficient respite. The president of the court was Colonel Glyn ; the duties of prosecutor devolved upon Captain Brander, who fulfilled them with energy and tact. The depositions of the four survivors of the action were Heard: Willis, Grubb, Cochrane, and Le Tocq. Their evidence tallied exactly with regard to what took place before the surprise, and allowed the court to follow the little troop in every movement until the moment when the blacks came out of the brush yelling and tiring on the English. From that minute the different stories, while confirming each other in essential points, showed certain contradictions in details, easy to explain by the inevitable confusion of such an alarm, or by the desire to repudiate a share of the responsibility that rested on the leader. However, important facts stood out from all these depositions: the absence of any precaution during the halt at the kraal, the disorderly helter-skelter flight, no attempt to rally the men and go back to the help of those who had been left behind.

These facts became so many heads of the charge against Carey. But the worst of all, perhaps, because it was the initial cause of those that followed, and may be said to have given rise to them, was the selection of that fatal place for the halt. Accordingly Carey, who defended himself with a great deal of coolness and assurance, took every pains to maintain that it was not he, but the Prince, who was in command on the first of June. To this assertion the prosecution opposed Colonel Harrison's evidence, which annihilated it. There was no need to go into the question of seniority or superiority in rank: of the two men, only one was an English officer, only one had any right to command, and that man was Carey. The accused maintained that he thought himself obliged, considering the Prince's name and rank, to defer to all his wishes as if to orders, and to leave him not merely an appearance but the reality of the command.

This thesis, if admitted, would have lain on the unfortunate Prince a certain moral responsibility, instead of the legal responsibility placed entirely on Carey's shoulders.

The accused knew perfectly well that it was not, for at that moment, a letter written by him on the very evening of the disaster refuted his own insinuation: " I can only be blamed for the selection of the camping place." Before the court-martial, the assertion put forward by Carey could not be discussed seriously. It did not justify the accused, but it left a doubt in the mind of the judges, and we shall presently see its consequences.
As to the surprise and what had immediately followed, there could be no two opinions. The officers who com-posed the court and who were experienced in this kind of war, were disposed to allow the sauve-qui-peut of the first moment, but there was not, I think, one among them who, in Carey's circumstances, would not have attempted to rally his men and make at least a demonstration in favour of their vanished comrades, even of the lowest rank. If the inequality between a number of well-armed and well-mounted men on the one side, and a crowd of savages on foot (who did not understand how to use their firearms, and who had probably exhausted their ammunition), be considered, it will easily be seen that this return was possible, and that had it taken place the Prince and the soldier Abel would probably have been saved.

The idea of such a return never entered Carey's mind for a moment, for he had galloped right into camp, without knowing whether he left the Prince behind living, or dead, or only wounded. " I did everything to save the Prince," he ventured to say, and the prosecutor replied, " You did absolutely nothing." The judges endorsed this crushing dictum, which will remain the verdict of history. In consequence, subject to the approval of the Commander-in-Chief of the British Army, Carey was to be cashiered. After pronouncing this sentence the same judges, or to be exact. Colonel Glyn, the president of the court, signed in their names a recommendation to mercy, dictated by several considerations. On one hand they gave the condemned man the benefit of the doubtful situation that made a Prince the subordinate of an ordinary officer, at a time and in surroundings when rank still retained all its prestige.

On this subject I must point out that the Prince had never done anything to encourage this strange misunderstanding. He did not wish to be treated as an Emperor's son, but as a simple soldier, under whatever title it might be, and under all circumstances he set an example of absolute obedience to his chiefs, and an inviolable respect for discipline. Bettington's unpublished diary contains undeniable proofs of this. In camp he willingly contented himself with one of those shelter-tents that the English regulars will not use and
Leave to the volunteers. During the reconnaissance of the fourteenth of May, when a room had been set apart for him in a farmhouse, he refused to go there, and lay outside on the ground, beside his comrades. Just as he might be seen taking orders from Bullet, from Harrison, from Bettington, he bowed before Carey's opinions, whatever may have been his inward convictions as to that officer's inadequacy from a military point of view. Besides,

What reason would there have been for the Prince to go down from the heights to the kraal? Nothing would have suggested it to him, whereas there was an obvious interest to Carey in the points that remained uncertain on his maps, for it was his business to find in those low-lying marshy places a way for the guns and transport. It can be seen how very precarious and dubious was the excuse put forward by the accused. It masked a grave fault by alleging an error in judgment giving affairs the most favourable interpretation possible and the court displayed extreme leniency in finding an extenuating circumstance here. Another consideration in the recommendation to mercy was the scantiness of the escort, which made resistance very difficult after the surprise as well as before.

But who was responsible for this except Carey himself, who, torn between his vanity and his fears, did not dare to surround himself with the necessary number of men, since he had been chaffed for his prudence, the day when he had taken out a whole squadron on a reconnaissance? And if they had wanted to exonerate Carey from his responsibility in this, it should have been laid upon Colonel Harrison. That officer had entrusted a dangerous task to the Prince without telling his General he was at Itelezi when the Prince had crossed the place for the new camp. He had been able to see with his own eyes how wretched was the little squad that had the keeping of this precious life. And he had allowed them to go! That is not all; the day before he had neglected to dispatch in time the order which was to give Major Bettington himself the mission that in the end fell to Carey, a mission the gallant and skilful Major would have carried out in a very different fashion. My heart contracts in pain and sorrow to read these words in his diary: " If I had been there, I should have saved him or I should have stayed there with him." I shall add further that Bettington never marched without having his mounted Basutos with him, admirable scouts and cunning at baffling surprises. And so, though Colonel Harrison only appeared as a witness before the court-martial, it seems to me that he should have divided certain responsibilities with Carey.

However that may be, Carey was at once sent to the coast to be thence transferred to England and put at the disposal of the Duke of Cambridge, to whom was left the final decision in this affair.

Lieutenant Carey was on his way to England. Sentenced by the court-martial to be cashiered, but having been at the same time and by the same court recommended to the clemency of the Commander-in-Chief of the English Army, he considered himself well through the business, and before witnesses he made certain statements he thought of a kind to win over public opinion: " The Prince commanded, he, Carey, could only obey." " But he should have warned him! " Ah I the Prince would not have endured my observations: he was so jealous of his authority I " The Prince jealous of his authority? Carey had not dared to assert such a thing in the presence of the officers who had seen the Prince set an example to everybody of complete submission to his chiefs; in the presence of Lord Chelmsford, who wrote to his sister: "I shall treat the Prince exactly like my other aides-de-camp; I know that is what he desires," or in the presence of Major Bettington, who had seen him defer immediately and with a good grace to an injunction of Colonel Buller, expressed in the curt terms a superior officer employs when giving an order to a subaltern. But Carey was no longer among those who knew the facts and who would have contradicted him on the spot. He was questioned, he was listened to, and something of these conversations, carried by reporters, had preceded him to England.

As soon as the Empress was able to collect her thoughts and to express a wish with regard to the possible consequences of the first of June, she had written the following note:
‘‘July 1879.
" My only source of earthly consolation I derive from the thought that my beloved son fell like a soldier, obeying orders in a duty assigned to him, and that those who gave him these orders did so because they believed him competent and useful. Enough of recrimination: may the remembrance of his death join in a common regret all who loved him, and may no one suffer either in reputation or in material interests — I who can desire nothing more in this world make this a last request. " Eugenie. " Speak in this sense to all, English or French."
Evidently the Duke of Cambridge knew of these lines; he could not fail to respect them. The Empress had, in a fashion, endorsed the
recommendation of the court-martial in favour of the sentenced man. If the Commander-in-Chief had contented himself with quietly pardoning Carey, that would have been taken by everybody as a kind of homage to the Prince's memory.

But the Duke set to work in quite another way. He went into a fresh consideration of the facts without having before him all the necessary data; in his turn he pronounced a kind of verdict. It accepted the sauve-qui-peut, and up to a certain points the impossibility of an offensive return. As for the inadequacy of the escort, the choice of the halting-place, the lack of precautions observed, he blamed Carey for not having " warned " the Prince, for not having enlightened his inexperience by some advice.This was to accept the theory of doubtful command, and shared responsibility, no longer as an extenuating circum- stance, but as a half justification.

When Carey, full of assurance, would have taken his place again in the Service, the greeting he received taught him what feelings were entertained towards him without any expression of those feelings in words. He knew the bitterness of that dumb ostracism which isolates its object in the middle of the most animated company, which ignores his presence and even his very existence, does not see him when he is there, does not hear him when he speaks; the eyes that turn away, the hands that shun, the conversations that stop when he enters, and begin again when he goes; all that world of signs, and above all of silences that make of him an outsider among his comrades, an inferior among his equals, a stranger in his own house, a dead man in the midst of the living.

Carey held on, convinced that time would work for him. He asked the Empress for an audience, speculating in this upon a mother's desire to hear the last conversation of her son. To be received by the Empress would have been the best of acquittals. The audience was denied him.
He dragged his isolation and his rancour from garrison to garrison until the day when disease carried him off, at Bombay, where he had been sent.
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Mr Greaves

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PostSubject: Re: Jaheel Brenton Carey   Fri Nov 13, 2009 10:23 pm

Is there any other accounts from the other troops that manage to escape. Surly they were are asked to give statements.

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PostSubject: Re: Jaheel Brenton Carey   Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:03 am

Saul David
Sorry cant agree with the "poor man" tag.
Everything he got he brought on himself.
He was an officer with a certain seniority, a Captain although he didnt know it. He allowed himself to be lead around by Louis and then at the critical point failed entirely to show leadership qualities.
No sympathy.

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PostSubject: Re: Jaheel Brenton Carey   Sat Nov 14, 2009 9:28 am

Mr Greaves

Statements were given under examination at the enquiry by, Grubb, Le Tocq, Cochrane and Sgnt Willis
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PostSubject: Re: Jaheel Brenton Carey   Sat Nov 14, 2009 11:24 am

I personally feel the Prince took advantage of his royal status; the only mistake Carey made was volunteering to accompany the prince on that fateful venture.

Here are two extract from John Young.

"On the 16th of May, as Zulu scouts were spotted on the ridge of the Itelezi Hill, on sighting the patrol they melted back from sight. The reconnaissance commander, Lieutenant-Colonel Redvers Buller V.C., turned to his imperial guest to point out the stealth of the Zulu warriors, only to see Louis draw his sword, which was the same sword that his great-uncle had carried at Austerlitz, and galloped headlong in pursuit of the Zulus, thus jeopardising the purpose of the mission. Buller despatched troopers after the eager young man, who returned dejected he had not drawn blood. Buller asserted his authority over this spectator with extreme wrath - "Your Imperial Highness, this is a reconnaissance, not a Zulu hunt...- Under no circumstances will I permit such reckless action again. Do I make myself clear, Sir." Sheepishly, the young Bonaparte admitted his error."


"Captain William Molyneux, one of Lord Chelmsford's aide de camps. Molyneux asked Louis about his conduct during the previous patrol, enquiring if he thought that "by risking his life in order to grips with a few Zulus whose deaths, after all, would have made not the slightest difference to the outcome of the campaign." Louis replied, "You are right, I suppose, but I could not help it. I feel I must do something." As Louis spoke a shot rang out to their left, nothing was seen, save for a trooper calmly reloading his rifle and continuing with his pace. Molyneux concluded that the man had hit whatever he had been aiming at. Not so the Prince, who again drew his sword and rode at full tilt towards the trooper. Molyneux shouted, "Prince, I must order you to come back." Louis pulled up at once, and turned to face Molyneux, he saluted the officer with his sword, before returning it to its scabbard, then he let fly at the captain, "It seems I am never to be without a nurse."

Not only was he a danger to himself, but also he was a danger to others. Which on the 1st June 1879 proved the point.
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PostSubject: Re: Jaheel Brenton Carey   Sat Nov 14, 2009 11:40 am

Commons Sitting → THE LATE PRINCE 1879
This is interesting. Even members of the Government didn’t know what position the Prince held. So what chance did Carey have? Carey Probably thought with the Prince’s royal statues he was in commard.

SIR ROBERT PEEL
Sir, with reference to the reply of the right hon. Gentleman upon the
Untoward and unhappy misfortune which has befallen Prince Louis Napoleon, I wish to ask him if he can inform the House in what capacity the Prince Imperial served, and what position he held in the Army of South Africa; also if he was on the Staff of Lord Chelmsford; and if, therefore, it was by Lord Chelmsford's order, and with what view, such a small force as that with which the Prince went was sent into an enemy's country, whilst there was a Force of no less than 26,000 men massed on the frontier of Zululand?


COLONEL STANLEY
Sir, I am not aware what position the lamented Prince occupied in connection with the Forces, and I am not aware of his having held any commission, nor am I aware of his having been attached to the Staff, although, like all the rest of the world, I was, of course, cognizant of the fact that he was with them. With regard to what the right hon. Gentleman has said about Lord Chelmsford, as to whether the Prince was sent out by his orders on the reconnoitring expedition, of that fact I am aware distinctly. Lord Chelmsford says in his despatch that he was ignorant of the fact that the Prince had been sent away with an excursion party.
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PostSubject: Re: Jaheel Brenton Carey   Sat Nov 14, 2009 11:49 am

springbok. It was case of what the Princes wanted the Prince got.

He was a reckless individual, who wanted to play Soldier’s with the big boys. He uses his royal statues to manipulate those in change. One complained from him to his mother, about an officer would have had a dramatic down fall on that officer’s career.

S.D
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PostSubject: Re: Jaheel Brenton Carey   Sat Nov 14, 2009 12:46 pm

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The above comes from Memories and studies of war and peace by Archibald Forbes.
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PostSubject: Re: Jaheel Brenton Carey   Sat Nov 14, 2009 8:59 pm

Carey,wrote to his wife Annie.

"My own one,
You know the dreadful news, ere you received this by telegram. I am a ruined man I fear, though from my letter which will be in the papers you will see that I could not do anything else. Still the loss of a Prince is a fearful thing. To me the whole thing is a dream. It is but 8 hours (ago) since it happened. Our camp was bad, but then, I have been so laughed at for taking a squadron with me that I had grown reckless and would have gone with 2 men. Tomorrow we go with the 17th Lancers to find his body, poor fellow! But it might have been my fate. The bullets tore around us and with only my revolver what could I do? The men all bolted and I now fear the Prince was shot on the spot as his saddle is torn as if he tried to get up. No doubt they will say I should have remained by him, but I had no idea he was wounded and thought he was after me. My horse was nearly done, but carried me beautifully.

My own darling, I prayed as I rode away that I should not be hit and my prayer was heard. Annie, what will you think of me! I was such a fool to stop in that camp; I feel it now, though at the time I did not see it. As regards leaving the Prince, I am innocent, as I did not know he was wounded, and thought our best plan was to make an offing. Everyone is very kind about it all here, but I feel a broken-down man. Never can I forget this night's adventure!

My own, own sweet darling, my own darling child, my own little Edie and Pelham! Mama darling, do write and cheer me up! What will the Empress say? Only a few minutes before our surprise he was discussing politics with me and the campaigns of 1800 and 1796, criticising Napoleon's strategy, and then he talked of republics and monarchies! Poor boy! I liked him so very much. He was always so warm-hearted and good-natured. Still I have been surprised; but not that I am not careful; but only because they laughed at all my care and foresight. I should have done very differently a week ago, but now have ceased to care.
Oh Annie, how near I have been to death. I have looked it in the face and have been spared. I have been a very, very wicked man, and may God forgive me! I frequently have to go out without saying my prayers and have had to be out on duty every Sunday. Oh! For some Christian sympathy! I do feel so miserable and dejected I know not what to do! Of course all sorts of yarns will get into the papers, and without hearing my tale, I shall be blamed, but honestly, between you and me, I can only be blamed for the camp.

I tried to rally the men in their retreat and had no idea the poor Prince was behind. Even now I don't know it, but fear so from the evidence of the men. The fire on us was very hot, perfect volleys. I believe 30 men or more were on us. Both my poor despised horses have now been under fire. The one I rode today could scarcely carry me, but did very well coming back. Oh I do feel so ill and tired. I long for rest of any kind. If the body is found at any distance from the kraal tomorrow, my statement will appear correct. If he is in the kraal, why then he must have been shot dead, as I heard no cry. (Enfin nous verrons) Time alone will solve the mystery. Poor Lord Chelmsford is awfully cut up about it as he will be blamed for letting him go with so small an escort. The Times and Standard correspondents have been at me for news, also the Figaro.

My own treasure, I cannot write more. Good night, my own one. I will try and let you know a few words tomorrow. I will now try to sleep, till reveille at 5.00am and it is now nearly one, and so very cold!"


He wanted to save himself by the sound of things.
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PostSubject: Re: Jaheel Brenton Carey   Sat Nov 14, 2009 9:33 pm

Hope your well sas1.

This is Carey's take on the event. Published. September 6th 1879.

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PostSubject: Re: Jaheel Brenton Carey   Sun Nov 15, 2009 12:29 pm

No question at all that Carey was in charge of the patrol, Careys negligence in not waiting for the full escort. Careys lack of expression of authority in chosing the place to dismount.
As pointed out at the court of enquiry, the first three riders out of the donga during the attack were Carrey Abel and Cochrane, both the last two stated that they followed Carey. They didnt stop to ascertain the situation for some 800 yards.
All pretty damning.
General Marshall at the courts martial rejected Careys evidence. Even Chelmsford was critical in his defence.
I was at the grave site a couple of months back, probably the most god forsaken spot in all of Zululand.

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PostSubject: jaheel brenton carey.   Sun Nov 15, 2009 12:48 pm

hi sprinbok9.
just wishing to clear up a point , Abel may have been out of the donga quickly but he couldnt have said
he followed Carey as he was Killed along with Rogers , the prince and the zulu scout :) .
cheers 90th.
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PostSubject: Re: Jaheel Brenton Carey   Sun Nov 15, 2009 1:21 pm

For your information, what the Trooper's said in court.

Judge-Advocate Brander prosecuted, and Captain Crookenden, R.A., was for the defence.

When the Court opened the plan of the ground was proved.

Corporal Grubb said the Prince gave the order "Off saddle" at the kraal, and "Prepare to mount." The Prince mounted. After the volley he saw Carey putting spurs to his horse, and he did the same. He saw Abel fall, and Rogers trying to get a shot at the Zulus. Le Tocq passed him and said, "Put spurs to your horse, boy; the Prince is down!" He looked round and saw the Prince under his horse. A short time after the Prince's horse came up, and he (Grubb) caught it. No orders were given to rally.

Le Tocq was called and said: The Prince told the natives to search the kraals, and finding no one there they off saddled. At the volley he mounted, but, dropping his carbine, stopped to pick it up. In remounting he could not get his leg over the saddle. He passed the Prince, and said in French, "Hasten to mount your horse." The Prince did not answer. He saw the Prince's horse treading on his leg. The Prince was in command of the party. He believed Carey and the Prince would have passed on different sides of a hut in fast flight, and it was possible that Carey might have failed to see that the Prince was in difficulties. It was 250 yards from where he saw the Prince down to the spot where he died.

Trooper Cochrane was called and said: The Prince was not in the saddle at the time of mounting. He saw about fifty yards off the Prince running down the donga with fourteen Zulus in close pursuit. Nothing was done to help him. He heard no orders given, and did not tell Carey what he had seen until some time after. He was an old soldier. He did not think any rally could have been made.

The Court then adjourned to the next day. On reassembling, the first witness called was

Sergeant Willis, who stated that he had seen Trooper Rogers lying on the ground by the side of his horse, close to the kraal, as he left the spot. He thought he saw the Prince wounded at the same time that Trooper Abel threw up his arms. He thought the Prince might have been dragged to the place where he was found after death, and that a rally might have been made twenty yards beyond the donga.

Colonel Harrison being called, stated that Carey was senior combatant officer, and must therefore have been in command of the party. Carey volunteered to go on the reconnaissance to verify certain points of his sketch. The Prince was ordered to go to report more fully on the ground. He had given the Prince into Carey's charge.

Examined by the Court, Colonel Harrison stated that when the Prince was attached to his department he was not told to treat him as a royal personage in the matter of escort, but as any other officer, taking due precaution against any possible danger.

Dr. Scott (the Prince's medical attendant) was then called, and stated that the Prince was killed by eighteen assegai wounds, any five of which would have been fatal. There were no bullet wounds. The Prince died where the body was found.

This closed the case for the prosecution.
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PostSubject: Re: Jaheel Brenton Carey   Sun Nov 15, 2009 2:58 pm

90th
Sorry your quite correct, it was Le tocq and Cochrane.........Senile moment im afraid.
My points being that at the inquest and subsequent Courts Martial the command of the patrol was laid well and trully at the door of Carey. And with the grand traditions of the British Army an officer does not save himself at the expence of his men.
My thoughts any way.
Regards
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PostSubject: Re: Jaheel Brenton Carey   Sun Nov 15, 2009 5:12 pm

QUESTION. OBSERVATIONS. HANSARD

LORD TRURO
He believed that at the outside there were sent with him only ten men, and that including a young officer, Lieutenant Carey. Whether that officer had greater age and more experience than the Prince, he (Lord Truro) could not say; but this he knew, that both Lieutenant Carey and the Prince had been upon that very ground a short time before—not, perhaps, attacked—but fired upon by Zulus; and with that knowledge, was it conceivable that Colonel Harrison should have sent them upon such an expedition with such an inadequate support as nine or ten troopers? These men also were armed with only three rifles, and they had two led horses. It was clear from the narratives that the Prince commanded the party. He ordered a halt, he ordered a renewed march of an hour's duration; then, after another halt, which he also ordered, he, unhappily too late, directed the horses to be saddled. How was it possible, after the letters of His Royal Highness, that so fatal an error could have been committed? A more unfortunate campaign than that had never been known; and when the country came to look at it, he believed that they would say to the Government—" Important and successful as may be your foreign policy, valuable as may be your domestic measures, you have placed the country in a state as regards its Army which is most unfortunate and most insecure; and as to the mode in which you have conducted the South African campaign you have brought on us eternal disgrace." God forbid that the campaign should end in the condition in which it was now, with disgrace to the Army, and disasters such as in the lifetime of their Lordships had never yet been known.
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PostSubject: Re: Jaheel Brenton Carey   Sun Nov 15, 2009 6:37 pm

Prince Eugene wasn't unique in his stupidity. Most of the British officers made a point of underestimating the enemy until the battle of Isandlwana turned into a massacre, which cost the British expeditionary force 1,300, dead.

The horrified Prime Minister, Benjamin Disraeli, retrieved some of the PR disaster by promoting the immediately subsequent battle of Rorke's Drift as a victory compensating for the previous defeat, but he knew it didn't. Another victory, no matter how small, would have been welcome.

Keen to provide it was none other than Eugene, at the head of a troop of soldiers, which he led 22 miles into Zulu country with the intention, apparently, of confusing the foe by having a picnic.
Carefully choosing a position where his men could be approached under cover from all sides, Eugene ordered that the horses be unsaddled so that they could rest. He had an experienced British officer with him but the experienced British officer was a victim of social deference, and didn't like to contradict royalty.

The Zulus had no such inhibitions. Cutting to the chase, we can say that Eugene might have died a more impressive death if he had not last been seen alive riding under his horse, where his hastily buckled saddle had slipped.
His body was recovered with 18 assegai wounds in it. The court of enquiry, which managed to blame everyone except him, never did establish whether 18 Zulus had stabbed him once, or one Zulu had stabbed him 18 times.
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PostSubject: jaheel brenton carey.   Mon Nov 16, 2009 1:09 am

hi all.
The following is from THE GLAMOUR AND THE TRAGEDY OF THE ZULU WAR by W.H. CLEMENTS
" The kaffir guide , now shepherding the horses to the spruit for a drink , noticed one of the party leave his place of concealment
and cross the spruit . The guides suspicions were immediatly aroused and he left the horses and hurried back to the patrol and
addressed the prince personally . Naturally he was none the wiser , but the native"s gesticulations conveyed to him that something
unusual had happened , so he summoned CPL GRUBB, who was a zulu linguist , and soon he was in possession of the guide"s story
Looking at his watch the prince remarked , " It is now 10 mins to 4 . You can give your horses 10 mins more to feed." But the guide"s
intelligence had aroused suspicion among the troopers and , through the SGT , their anxiety was conveyed to the two officers , and
as a result the order was given to saddle up. Every man went off in search of his horse and within a few minutes everyone had saddled
upand was standing by in readinessto mount on the command being given. The prince spent a minute or two adjusting his horse's bit
straps , then looking up he gave the order, " Prepare to mount " . the command was no sooner uttered then there was a reverberating crash of rifle fire from the donga , less than 30 yds away, which so startled the horses that some of them were difficult
to mount." ......We all know the rest of the story , so I wont continue with it. One other point that needs to be mentioned is that the
Basuto patrol of 6 men failed to arrive to accompany the patrol, It seems they went to the wrong tent !. And the story goes , the
prince being impatient to set off, prevailed on LT Carey to do without them . In all probability if the Basuto troops who were
experinced in all manner of things to do with the zulus had accompanied the party this catastrophe may never have occured .
cheers 90th.
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PostSubject: Re: Jaheel Brenton Carey   Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:05 am

The prince was stabbed initially by Xabanga, then in the thigh by Langalibalele, then by various others lead by Klabawathunga and Mwunzane.
Conversation Wood/Klabawathunga.
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PostSubject: Re: Jaheel Brenton Carey   Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:56 am

Quote :
The prince spent a minute or two adjusting his horse's bit
straps , then looking up he gave the order, " Prepare to mount " . the command was no sooner uttered then there was a reverberating crash of rifle fire from the donga
,

Its doe's appear that quite a few people thought the Prince was in change.

G
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PostSubject: jaheel brenton carey.   Mon Nov 16, 2009 12:17 pm

hi mrgreaves.
Yes , you are correct , even when Carey was defending himself at the court -martial he states he thought the prince
was in command , according to Carey he states Harrison would have given him written orders if he was to be in command .
Seems like a complete muck up from start to finish . A quick snippet from " THE GLAMOUR AND THE TRAGEDY OF THE
ZULU WAR by W.H CLEMENTS . " The finding of the court - martial was that it held the opinion that LT CAREY did not
understand the position in which he stood to the prince , and in consequence failed to estimate aright the responsibility
which fell to his lot. QTR- MASTER GEN HARRISON stated in evidence that LT CAREY was in charge of the escort :
while CAREY , alluding to the escort , says , " I do not consider that I had any authority over It."
cheers 90th.
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PostSubject: Re: Jaheel Brenton Carey   Mon Nov 16, 2009 12:24 pm

Mr Greaves
Exactly my point. Carey was prepared to allow a "civilian" to assume command. Shurly a case of dereliction of duty. Its not as if Carey was an inexperienced junior officer. In addition he had rode with the Prince before.
In a letter to the Empress written while the Prince was waiting to go on the patrol he wrote that he was going out on a patrol under the command of Lt Carey. He for one therefore expect to be subservient.
I dont recall a case where a seasoned officer defers to a 'civilian' on command decisions

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PostSubject: Re: Jaheel Brenton Carey   Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:54 pm

Extract from the: Earl Of Dunraven.

As a matter of fact, we know Lord Chelmsford did attach the Prince Imperial to his personal Staff. The Secretary of State for War read extracts from two private letters, and from one official letter, from Lord Chelmsford stating that he had made the Prince Imperial an extra aide-de-camp, and the Secretary of State for War in "another place," and the Under Secretary of State for War in this House, stated that that was probably done to enable the Prince Imperial to draw forage and food. We do not know what that was probably done for. We want to know what it was done for. I think it would be interesting to your Lordships to see a copy of the orders by which the Prince Imperial was attached to the Staff of the General commanding in South Africa. I am quite aware that it is customary, when a non-combatant and civilian is allowed to accompany the Forces into the field, to give him certain facilities and a certain position. He is allowed to pass freely within the lines, and is usually offered the rank of lieutenant, or captain, or some rank suitable to him, to enable him. to draw forage and rations; to be billeted if there are any quarters to be billeted for; to have facilities for transportation, and so on. But there the matter ceases. The individual so treated cannot be called upon to perform any kind of military duty. The authorities cannot demand his services in any way. The authorities are not responsible for his well-being or his life in the smallest degree. If that was the position occupied by the late Prince Imperial, it is well that your Lordships and the country should know it for certain, and at once; for, in that case, nobody is responsible for the Prince Imperial, and the country would learn with a sense of relief that no British soldier or officer was responsible for him; and that, consequently, there has been no neglect of duty.
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PostSubject: Re: Jaheel Brenton Carey   Mon Nov 16, 2009 8:19 pm

CTSG. As we are looking at the House of Commons sittings. I thought I would post this. It must have come to light by now that we have all notice that Lord Chelmsford has as normal following a disaster remains quite. However the right Honourable Colonel Stanley was given some private letters, Chelmsford would have been quite happy for Carey to be scapegoat, Using the same method he did with Durnford and that was to lie about the orders issued. Chelmsford knew the Prince was employed in H.M Army.

Colonel Stanley.

I may say that some extracts from private letters of Lord Chelmsford to Lady Chelmsford have, with the permission of some of his relatives, been placed in my hands, and I believe also in those of other hon. Members of this House. I believe it is desirable that I should read them, as they throw the fullest light, or rather all the light that is at present attainable, upon this painful subject.

The first is dated from Durban, on the 11th of April. It says— I have placed the Prince Imperial on ray Staff. He is very pleased. He is immensely keen to see some active service. I like him from what I have seen of him very much. I shall treat him in precisely the same way as I should any other of my aides-de-camp, and I am sure it is what he himself would prefer. On April 14, Lord Chelmsford writes— The Prince seems pleased that I asked him to come on my personal Staff. He has quite accepted the position of aide-de-camp. I hope his health will stand it, as it would he a serious responsibility if it broke down. He appears to he a good, keen soldier.

The next letter is from Pietermaritzburg, on the 20th April, and says— I arrived here on the 17th. The Prince Imperial accompanied me. He had been unfortunately laid up with fever at Durban, and the jolting of the carriage and the heat of the sun rather knocked him up. I am afraid he is not naturally very strong, and I very much doubt if he will be able to stand the long rides we have in store for him if he follows me wherever I go. However, he is bent on it, and has plenty of courage. Lord Chelmsford goes on to say— I am, for the first time since I held this command, going to take a doctor with me, in order that he may look after the Prince. His name is Dr. Scott. He next writes from Colenso, Natal, on the 26th of April— The Prince was not allowed to leave Pieter-maritzburg with me, as he has been suffering from fever. I am expecting him, however, to join me very shortly. And he writes from Dundee on the 30th of April— We arrived here yesterday afternoon, and managed to get our tents pitched before the thunderstorm. The Prince and the doctor caught us up at Ladysmith. The Prince appears quite well. The air is cool and pleasant, and I hope the open air will do him good. From the same place, 17 miles from Utrecht, on the 6th of May, he says— The Prince accompanied me to Kambula, which soon knocked him up, and he had a slight attack of fever.


The last letter is written from Utrecht, and is dated the 21st of May. I received it yesterday. It says— The Prince Imperial went on a reconnaissance, and very nearly came to grief. I shall not let him out of my sight again if I can help it. But Lord Chelmsford does not mention with whom he went when the attack took place. This is all the information I can give.' In conclusion, I hope I am not out of Order in pointing out that the relatives of Lord Chelmsford have given us the amplest information which was in their possession.
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PostSubject: Re: Jaheel Brenton Carey   Mon Nov 16, 2009 8:36 pm

S.D. In your post it states
Quote :
"I have placed the Prince Imperial on ray Staff."

S.D. I'm sure your know. What is Ray Staff ?????? Could in be a civilian post. scratch
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PostSubject: Re: Jaheel Brenton Carey   Mon Nov 16, 2009 8:57 pm

Looks like a type error. But S.D's post certainly raises some points with regards to the Prince's position with the army.
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PostSubject: Re: Jaheel Brenton Carey   Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:15 pm

Sorry. I’m a bit confused. Was the Prince in South Africa in the service of the Army, or as a Civilian? It appears he gave orders which were obeyed. So why would anyone bother to obey, if he wasn't in command. Its also appears that Carey, never received any written instructions to state that he was in command.
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PostSubject: Re: Jaheel Brenton Carey   Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:56 pm

Dave. Good question.

Here's a telegram from the Lord himself. As read by Colonel Stanley House of Commons.


Sir, with your permission, and with feelings of very deep regret, which I am sure will be shared by the House, I will read the telegram just received from General Lord Chelmsford, telegraphed from Madeira to-day— Camp, seven miles beyond Blood River, under Itellezi Mountain, 2nd June.

"Prince Imperial, acting under orders of the Assistant Quartermaster General, reconnoitered on the 1st of June. Rode to camping ground, accompanied by Lieutenant Carey, 98th, Deputy Assistant Quartermaster General, and six white men and friendly Zulus, all mounted. Party halted and off-saddled off the road about ten miles from this camp. Just as the Prince gave orders to mount a volley was fired from the long grass around the kraals. The Prince Imperial and two troopers are reported missing by Lieutenant Carey, who escaped and reached the camp at dark.

On the evidence taken there can be no doubt of the Prince being killed. Some 17th Lancers and ambulances are now starting to recover the body, but I send this off at once hoping to catch the mail. I myself was unaware that the Prince Imperial had been detailed for this duty. I have the melancholy satisfaction, such as it is, to add that a telegram has been received by my right hon. Friend (Sir Michael Hicks-Beach), stating that the body of the late Prince Imperial has since been recovered. I think, Sir, it is hardly necessary for me to express here in this House what, I am sure, is felt by all of us in this House, of whatever Party, that a young Prince who, we are proud to think, had derived some portion at least of his military education in our own Military Academy, and who, united by the tenderest bonds of comradeship, had volunteered gallantly to go out and assist his former comrades at a time of difficulty and danger, should have met with a fate which, though it well becomes a soldier, still is one which has cut him off prematurely. I am sure we must all feel the deepest sympathy with that gracious lady who is thus deprived of the only prop to which she might have justly looked forward in after-life.


Chelmsford get clause. " I myself was unaware that the Prince Imperial had been detailed for this duty."
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PostSubject: Re: Jaheel Brenton Carey   Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:38 pm

S.D in your post. Chelmsford is saying “On the evidence taken". Just about everyone that survived that mission, stated that the Prince gave the orders. Chelmsford was just stating the evidence available to him.

In reality, what could Carey have done. Apart from die?
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PostSubject: Re: Jaheel Brenton Carey   Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:58 am

sas 1
In reality Carey should not have put himself into the position he did.

Regards
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PostSubject: Re: Jaheel Brenton Carey   Tue Nov 17, 2009 5:24 pm

They were all on a royal jolly which ended in a diaster.
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PostSubject: Re: Jaheel Brenton Carey   Thu Nov 19, 2009 6:26 pm

Its appears that the prince was not employed in H.M Army heres two letters from the Duke of Cambridge: He states that the Government could not sanction the Prince being employed in the Army. But the Goverment laid it on Chelsfrod doorstep.

Two letter letters of introduction to Sir Bartle Frere and Lord Chelmsford from the Duke Of Cambridge.

" February 25, 1879. "My dear Chelmsford,—This letter will he presented to you by the Prince Imperial, who is going out on his own account to see as much as he can of the coming campaign in Zululand. He is extremely anxious to go out, and wanted to be employed in our Army; but the Government did not consider that this could be sanctioned, but have sanctioned my writing to you and to Sir Bartle Frere to say that if you can show him kindness and render him assistance to see as much as he can with the columns in the field, I hope you will do so. He is a fine young fellow, full of spirit and pluck, and having many old cadet friends in the Artillery, he will doubtless find no difficulty in getting on, and if you can help him in any other way, pray do so. My only anxiety on his account would be that he is too plucky and go-a-head.—I remain, my dear Chelmsford, yours most sincerely, GEORGE. That is the letter to Lord Chelmsford; and I should also like to read to your Lordships that which was addressed to Sir Bartle Frere in order that there may be no mistake—


"February 25, 1879.
"My dear Sir Bartle Frere,—I am anxious to make you acquainted with the Prince Imperial, who is about to proceed to Natal by tomorrow's packet to see as much as he can of the coming campaign in Zululand in the capacity of a spectator. He was anxious to serve in our Army, having been a cadet at Woolwich; but the Government did not think that this could be sanctioned. But no objection is made to his going out on his own account, and I am permitted to introduce him to you and to Lord Chelmsford in the hope and with my personal request that you will give him every help in your power to enable him to see what he can. I have written to Chelmsford to the same effect. He is a charming young man, full of spirit and energy, speaking English admirably, and the more you see of him the more you will like him. He has many young friends in the Artillery, and so I doubt not, with your and Chelmsford's kind assistance, he will get on well enough.—I remain, my dear Sir Bartle, yours most sincerely, GEORGE."
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PostSubject: Re: Jaheel Brenton Carey   Sat Nov 21, 2009 11:30 am

"Colonel Redvers Buller had noticed on reconnaissance that the Prince tended to become excited, reckless, difficult to control and even inclined to ignore orders. He recommended that the Prince should be employed in staff duties in the camp. This was carried out immediately and the Prince was taken off reconnaissance work and given staff work – drawing plans for fortified points along the route to Ulundi. Louis was resentful of the desk work and Harrison noticed this and suggested that he accompany the reconnaissance patrol going out the next day. "

Source:DEATH OF THE PRINCE IMPERIAL
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PostSubject: Re: Jaheel Brenton Carey   Sat Dec 19, 2009 11:56 pm

The Prince imperial had laughingly remarked to Captain Lane,' “

"There is no excitement in being fired at. I want a trial with sword against assegai. I should like a slight assegai wound.”

Source: "War, waves, and wanderings"

He certainly under-estimated the Zulu. The assegai won. Carey had his work cut out with this young man.

G
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PostSubject: Re: Jaheel Brenton Carey   Sat Jan 09, 2010 1:04 am

Sorry to go over old ground.

I have just been reading an article on the death of the Prince, and it appears that Harrison let the Prince take out the scouting party. So surly the blame should have fallen on his shoulders. Did Harrison make a statement? Regarding the events leading up to him taking the decision to allow the Prince to undertake this task.
Originally Harrison had ordered him to collect information about distribution of troops and stores, which would have kept the Prince out of harms way. So why did he change his mind. scratch

Dave
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90th

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PostSubject: jaheel brenton carey.   Sat Jan 09, 2010 1:21 am

Hi Dave.
I think you will find Harrison basically gave in to the prince pestering him all the time ,
and Harrison was informed the area where the unfortunate incident took place had
recieved the all clear from zulu presence on a couple of ocassions . Harrison would
have thought , there was no danger to the prince and his party.
cheers 90th.
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PostSubject: Re: Jaheel Brenton Carey   Sat Jan 09, 2010 11:02 am

Hi Dave

This is from Harrison's book

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PostSubject: Re: Jaheel Brenton Carey   Sat Jan 09, 2010 11:47 am

Thanks for the feed back.

But had the Prince not took part in a number of reconnaissance missions, and though his enthusiasm for action more or less led him into an earlier ambush, when he exceeded orders in a reconnaissance led by Buller. But regardless of this on the evening of 31 May 1879, Harrison approved for the Prince to reconnoitre.

And is it not also true that the Prince was taken off reconnaissance work and given staff work. Its appears that the prince was offended by this work, and Harrison become aware of this and recommended that he go together with the reconnaissance patrol. Was it not Buller that had clipped the Prince’s wings but taking him off reconnaissance work, and if so was Harrison in a position to relinquish this.


Dave.
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PostSubject: Re: Jaheel Brenton Carey   Sat Jan 09, 2010 12:22 pm

Prince's Grave. The last lines of the inscription on the grave are a bitter reference to Carey's supposed cowardice. ( Anyone see this inscription)
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PostSubject: Re: Jaheel Brenton Carey   Sat Jan 09, 2010 3:09 pm

Hi John

The stone cross erected in 1880 by the Empress Eugenie on Queen Victoria's behalf at Ityotyosi. The inscription reads

'This cross is erected by Queen Victoria in affectionate remembrance of Napoleon Eugene Louis Jean Joseph Prince Imperial, to mark the spot where, while assisting in a reconnaissance with the British troops, on the 1st June 1879, he was attacked by a party of Zulus, and fell with his face to the foe.'
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PostSubject: Re: Jaheel Brenton Carey   Sat Jan 09, 2010 4:42 pm

Hi Dave

Two very good points, could I suggest we read from page 164 of Harrison's book, it might give us a better understanding of Harrison's position with regards to the Prince.
Harrison's book entitled Recollection of a Life in The British Army

I have posted a link for the above book for all to read online.
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PostSubject: JAHLEEL B. CAREY   Sat Jan 09, 2010 8:32 pm

hi all
Just wanting to point out Carey"s first name is JAHLEEL as opposed to Jaheel.
Anyone wishing to read the full story of this terrible incident should read I. Knights
book " With his face to the foe " . Pete ( admin ) has stated previously what an
important book it is , and it is well worth having .
cheers 90th
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PostSubject: Re: Jaheel Brenton Carey   Sun Jan 10, 2010 12:30 pm

By direction of Lord Chelmsford

Quote :
I gave the Prince written instructions that he was never to leave the immediate precincts of the camp without a proper escort. His ordinary work was to sketch the camps occupied by Headquarters, and the roads they traversed when on the march.

Quote :
On June 1 the 2nd Division made its first march into Zululand, and the same afternoon one of the most unhappy events in this or any war took place the death of the gallant young Prince, who had come out to share with his comrades of the English Army the risks and dangers of war.

Quote :
The evening before, he came to me and asked that he might extend his sketch beyond the camp to be occupied the next day, and make a Reconnaissance of the road to be traversed the day following. I saw no objection to this, provided he took with him the usual escort. Many of us had been over the ground, and we knew there was no
' impi ' in the neighbourhood. Moreover, I thought that the cavalry, which accompanied the division, would be extended over the country far in advance of the camp, so I gave permission.

Quote :
I came across Carey and the Prince, and found that they had with them the European part of their escort, a detachment of Bettington's Horse, but none of the Basutos, whom I had specially ordered to be detailed, because they have a much keener sense of sight and hearing than Europeans, and consequently make better scouts. They told me that they were to get their Basutos from the regiment that was out scouting in front of the camp, and I enjoined them not to go forward without them. Returning to camp, I accompanied Lord Chelmsford round the laager, and then went to my tent and drafted the orders for the next day's march.

Harrison seems to have played by the book in accordance with Chelmsford’s Instructions, but only up until he says
Quote :
“I came across Carey and the Prince, and found that they had with them the European part of their escort,”
should he not have instructed them to return with him back to the camp to ensure that a proper escort was accounted for as per his first instruction. What supprises me the most an bout the whole situation, is that Chelmsford himself seems to have remained quite slient during the whole issue. The only comment he makes is that he was totally un-aware of the Prince being allowed to go on this reconnaissance party. In view of this would it not have been down to the person who says " I saw no objection to this, provided he took with him the usual escort." well Harrison knew he never had the proper escort, but still allow them to make what appears their own decisions.

Dave
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PostSubject: Re: Jaheel Brenton Carey   Sun Jan 10, 2010 12:45 pm

Apologies forgot to add this.



‘I regret to have to report’
On 2 June 1879 Lord Chelmsford, Lieutenant-General commanding in South Africa, wrote to Colonel Frederick Arthur Stanley, who, despite his inferior military rank, was, as Secretary of State for War in Disraeli’s administration, his political superior:

"The Prince Imperial acting under orders of the Assistant Quarter Master General [Colonel R. Harrison] reconnoitred on 1st of June road to camping ground of 2nd of June accompanied by Lieutenant Carey …The Prince Imperial and two troopers are reported missing by Lieut. Carey who escaped and reached this camp after dark. From the evidence taken there can be no doubt of the Prince being killed. 17th Lancers and ambulance are now starting to recover the body but I send this off at once hoping to catch mail.

Quote :
I myself was not aware that Prince had been detailed for this duty.

Two points. One its show's as fact Chelmdford saying "I myself was not aware that Prince had been detailed for this duty. "

And Two Chelmsford again clearly states
Quote :
"accompanied by Lieutenant Carey"
He doe's not say Carey was in commard.

Dave.
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PostSubject: Re: Jaheel Brenton Carey   Sun Jan 10, 2010 1:03 pm

Hi Dave

Quote :
and I enjoined them not to go forward without them.
.

The point I am going to make here is the word enjoined

The definition of enjoined :-
to order (someone) to do (something); urge strongly; command

Now the issue I far as I can see it, that word means that it was a direct order not to go forward without the Basutos. So I now say that Carey & the Prince disobeyed a direct order, no matter what the reason, an order is an order.


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PostSubject: Re: Jaheel Brenton Carey   Sun Jan 10, 2010 4:34 pm

But these are the words of Harrison, in a book he published. Therefore one has to make up ones own mind.Did he really say this at the time. Or are we looking at after thoughts.

E.H
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PostSubject: Re: Jaheel Brenton Carey   Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:20 pm

Hi E.H

I see you point of view here :) Harrison's words (as far as I know) have never been challenged in the past 100 years.
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