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 Jaheel Brenton Carey

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Dave

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PostSubject: Re: Jaheel Brenton Carey   Sun Jan 10, 2010 8:02 pm

E.H. does make a good point. The book was published 29 Years after the event. Harrison could just about say anything and I believe Carey had passed away, long before the book was published. So could not criticize or dispute what Harrison wrote.

E.H. May I ask what is your personal thoughts are on the Prince Imperial incident.
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PostSubject: Re: Jaheel Brenton Carey   Sun Jan 10, 2010 8:26 pm

Hi Dave

I knew you going to respond with no one was left to respond to Harrisons words and you are correct :)

So back to E.H's words "Therefore one has to make up ones own mind" Idea
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PostSubject: Re: Jaheel Brenton Carey   Sun Jan 10, 2010 8:50 pm

Its simple. Captain Carey was given leave to accompany a party under the command of the Prince Imperial of France, Louis Napoleon. Zulus ambushed this party and the Prince Imperial was killed. Carey was court-martial but exonerated.

Harrison states in his book.

Quote :
“Captain Carey came to my tent, and asked that he might go with the Prince's party, as he wished to verify his sketch of the country, and I said ' yes,' and added that he could look after the Prince, and see that he did not get into any trouble.”

He doe’s not say that he placed Captain Carey in command of the reconnaissance party.

The young Prince was placed under the control of Harrison. He should have taken in to account the Prince’s status, and should have kept him by his side, until Chelmsford found alternative work for him. (Lets say back in England)

E.H
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PostSubject: Re: Jaheel Brenton Carey   Sun Jan 10, 2010 9:00 pm

Elizabeth Hogan wrote:
(Lets say back in England)

I do like that :lol!:
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PostSubject: Re: Jaheel Brenton Carey   Sun Jan 10, 2010 9:10 pm

Dave. Take 90th advice. Read " With his face to the foe " Then make up your own mind. You can pick one up on e-bay.

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Back in England. He should never have been allowed to go to SA. in the first place.

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PostSubject: Re: Jaheel Brenton Carey   Sun Jan 10, 2010 9:26 pm

I’m not sure this book will help, in Dave’s quest to clear Carey’s name. If that is his agenda.

E.H
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PostSubject: Re: Jaheel Brenton Carey   Sun Jan 10, 2010 11:39 pm

Dave. Buy the Book. Idea
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PostSubject: Re: Jaheel Brenton Carey   Sun Jan 10, 2010 11:43 pm

Dave. Are you considering a life size wax model of Carey.
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PostSubject: Re: Jaheel Brenton Carey   Sun Jan 10, 2010 11:48 pm

CTSG. Still having your little digs i see. About time you changed the record. Mad
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PostSubject: Re: Jaheel Brenton Carey   Mon Jan 11, 2010 3:21 pm

E.H Thanks for your reply
I’m not trying to clear Carey’s name, I’m just trying to establish weather or not he was to blame for the unfortunate incident involving the Prince.

CTSG. I’m not sure what you mean. But obviously Littlehand doe’s. Could someone enlighten me?


Dave.
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PostSubject: Re: Jaheel Brenton Carey   Sat Jan 16, 2010 11:54 pm

The Prince's party was to consist of six troopers and six Basutos, and though no officer was sent to accompany him, Captain Carey, an accomplished and intelligent soldier, happened, by an accident, to join the band. Carey had been employed to survey and map out some of the adjoining ground, and he asked leave to go with the Prince.

To clear up a doubtful topographical point on which he and Lord Chelmsford differed in opinion. Carey merely went for his private convenience. He was not told to look after the Prince ; in fact, he was told that, if he went, he was not to inter- fere with him, because his Imperial Highness, eager to regild the tarnished eagles of his House, desired to have all the credit of conducting the
expedition. The young Prince was in command of the party, and prematurely, in defiance of Carey's advice, ordered it to march without waiting for the six Basutos, who were late in putting in an appearance. He led his little troop on for some distance, and then halted again against Carey's counsel for a rest in a deserted kraal surrounded by a field of tall Indian corn. This was a fatal blunder, for the cover of the cornfield rendered the place eminently convenient for the concealment of an ambuscade. Here the Prince waited an hour. Meanwhile the Zulus surrounded him. Then he gave his men the order to move.


The Zulus sprang from their hiding-places and fired on the little band, whose startled horses were difficult to mount. It was impossible to see what was going on in the cornfield, and it was not till the troopers had retreated for some considerable distance that Carey and his comrades discovered that the Prince was missing. To have made a stand in the cornfield would have been to court instant death. It appeared that the Prince had been unable to mount his horse, which was frightened and restive, and that the Zulus overtook him and stabbed him with their assegais. Thanks to Carey's knowledge of the ground, the rest of the party, with the exception of two troopers, were saved, and Carey was able to give Colonel Wood's force the valuable intelligence that the enemy, contrary to the general belief, were infesting the country in front.

The indignation of the French Bonapartists at the death of the Prince Imperial was without limit. The ex-Empress, who had encouraged her son to go to South Africa, was prostrated with sorrow and remorse. Even the tender sympathy of the Queen could not console her for the loss of one whose life was necessary for her ambition, and whose death shattered the last hopes of Imperialism in France. It was thought desirable that somebody should be sacrificed to appease the wrath of the ex-Empress, and Carey was accordingly tried by court-martial and promptly condemned for " misbehaviour in front of the enemy " while in command of a reconnoitring party.

There were only two reasons for attacking Carey. He was the officer of lowest rank who had any connection with the Prince's ill-fated reconnaissance, and he had absolutely nothing whatever to do with the command of that expedition, or with the Prince's mismanagement of it. In fact, all that Carey could be blamed for, was for saving, by his superior knowledge of the ground, four of the six troopers whom the Prince had led into a fatal ambuscade. It need hardly be said that, on review, the finding of the court-martial was set aside by the
Duke of Cambridge, and Carey promptly restored to his rank.
The Duke laid all the blame on Colonel Harrison, who, however, was not tried by court-martial. But he also complained that Carey made a mistake in imagining that the Prince was in command of the party, a mistake which was not only natural but inevitable, and which was shared by all his comrades."



Source: The life and times of King Edward VII
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PostSubject: Re: Jaheel Brenton Carey   Sun Jan 17, 2010 12:08 am

John. Great post, can you post a link to the source you mentioned? Wink

Kind Regards.

Dave
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PostSubject: Re: Jaheel Brenton Carey   Sun Jan 17, 2010 5:29 am

Hi John
I still believe he didnt have the strength of character commensurate with his rank, he should have .....been in charge/taken charge and didnt.

Regards
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PostSubject: JAHLEEL B. CAREY   Sun Jan 17, 2010 5:46 am

hi sprinbok9.
Yes , I agree , We must also remember Carey and the Prince were best friends , that is also another
reason why he took a back seat when out on the patrol. Looks like you are going to have an easy win
to square the series , Barmy Army will be fairly quiet !
cheers 90th.
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PostSubject: Re: Jaheel Brenton Carey   Sun Jan 17, 2010 8:56 am

90th
Takes a lot to keep those lads quiet 90th. Think theres still going to be a lot of ctricket to be played. rikkies been doing a demolition job on the Pakistanis I see.
Regards
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PostSubject: Re: Jaheel Brenton Carey   Sun Jan 17, 2010 9:36 pm

Two accounts of what took place.

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Taranaki Herald, Volume XXVII, Issue 3167, 7 July 1879, Page 2

Source originally post by 1879Graves on another discussion.
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PostSubject: Jahleel Brenton Carey   Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:00 pm

Here is a link to a Carey family site with Photographs and Obituary for Jahleel Brenton Carey;

http://www.careyroots.com/hd1.html

Petty Officer Tom
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PostSubject: Re: Jaheel Brenton Carey   Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:04 pm

Tom. I can't thank you enough for the link.

Dave.
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PostSubject: Re: Jaheel Brenton Carey   Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:19 pm

Was Carey awarded the 1879 Zulu War Campaign Medal? As there is no mentioned of it on the link posted by Tom. (Or I could have missed it)

Here's the link to the Medals and Decorations page. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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PostSubject: JAHLEEL B. CAREY   Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:27 am

HI pete,
Carey is on the medal roll 98th regt , So I assume he would have recieved it , there is nothing in the roll to say
he didnt recieve it .
cheers 90th.
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PostSubject: Re: Jaheel Brenton Carey   Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:55 pm

Interesting. funny how they never mentioned it on the Careyroots website. (Doe's anyone know the where abouts of Carey's medal.
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PostSubject: Re: Jaheel Brenton Carey   Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:50 pm

The Prince imperial try to mount his horse, but one of the straps broke sending the Prince crashing to the ground. Is it true the saddle in question was infact made of patent Leather and not real thing.
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PostSubject: Re: Jaheel Brenton Carey   Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:44 am

Littlehand I have read this somewhere before. i'm not sure if it was in a book or on another forum. But those types of saddle were more for show. I will have a dig about today. If i find anything will post on site. But it would certailnly be a good reason for the saddle breaking.

G
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PostSubject: Re: Jaheel Brenton Carey   Tue Aug 24, 2010 9:55 pm

Arguments regarding this deplorable affair have been so many that it is best to quote the evidence taken at the court-martial and the statement of Lieutenant Carey : —

"The Court is of opinion that Lieutenant Carey did not understand the position in which he stood towards the Prince, and, as a consequence, failed to estimate aright the responsibility which fell to his lot. Colonel Harrison states that the senior combatant officer, Lieutenant Carey, D.A.Q.M.G., was, as a matter of course, in charge of the party, whilst, on the other hand, Carey says, when alluding to the escort, ' I did not consider I had any authority over it after the precise and careful instructions of Lord Chelmsford as to the position the Prince held.' As to his being invariably accompanied by an escort in charge of an officer, the Court considers that the possibility of such a difference of opinion should not have existed between two officers of the same department. The Court is of opinion that Carey is much to blame for having proceeded on the duty in question with a portion only of the escort detailed by Colonel Harrison. The Court cannot admit the Irresponsibility for this on the part of Carey, inasmuch as he took steps to obtain the escort and failed in so doing. Moreover, the fact that Harrison was present upon the Itelezi range gave him the opportunity of consulting him on the matter, of which he failed to avail himself. The Court, having examined the ground, is of opinion that the selection of the kraal, where a halt was made and the horses off-saddled, surrounded as it was by cover for the enemy, and adjacent to difficult ground, showed a lamentable want of military prudence. The Court deeply regrets that no effort was made after the attack to rally the escort, and to show a front to the enemy, whereby the possibility of aiding those who had failed to make good their retreat might have been ascertained. — Signed by General Marshall ; Colonel Malthus, 94th Regiment ; Major Le Grice, R.A."

On this report a court-martial was summoned by Lord Chelmsford for the trial of Lieutenant Carey for having misbehaved before the enemy on the ist June 1879, when in command of an escort in attendance on the Prince, who was making reconnaissances in Zululand ; in having, when the Prince and escort were attacked by the enemy, galloped away, and in not having attempted to rally them or otherwise defend the Prince. The Court, under the presidency of

Colonel Glyn, consisted of Colonels Whitehead, Courtney, Harness, Major Bouverie, and Major Anstruther. judge- Advocate Brander prosecuted, and Captain Crookenden.
R.A., was for the defence.

When the Court opened the plan of the ground was proved.

Corporal Grubb said the Prince gave the order " Off saddle " at the kraal, and " Prepare to mount." The Prince mounted. After the volley he saw Carey putting spurs to his horse, and he did the same. He saw Abel fall, and Rogers trying to get a shot at the Zulus. Le Tocq passed him and said, " Put spurs to your horse, boy; the Prince is down ! " He looked round and saw the Prince under his horse. A short time after the Prince's horse came up, and he (Grubb) caught it. No orders were given to rally.

Le Tocq was called and said : The Prince told the natives to search the kraals, and finding no one there they off saddled. At the volley he mounted, but, dropping his carbine, stopped to pick it up. In remounting he could not get his leg over the saddle. He passed the Prince, and said in PVcnch, " Hasten to mount your horse."
The Prince did not answer. He saw the Prince's horse treadingr on his leg. The Prince was in command of the party. He believed Carey and the Prince would have passed on different sides of a hut in fast flight, and it was possible that Carey might have failed to see that the Prince was in difficulties. It was 250 yards from where he saw the Prince down to the spot where he died.

Trooper Cochrane was called and said : The Prince was not in the saddle at the time of mounting. He saw about fifty yards off the Prince running down the donga with fourteen Zulus in close pursuit. Nothing was done to help him. He heard no orders given, and did not tell Carey what he had seen until some time after. He was an old soldier. He did not think any rally could have been made.

The Court then adjourned to the next day. On reassembling, the first witness called was

Sergeant Willis, who stated that he had seen Trooper Rogers lying on the ground by tiie side of his horse, close to the kraal, as he left the spot. He thought he saw the Prince wounded at the same time that Trooper Abel threw up his arms. \\r. thought the Prince might have been dragged to the place where he was found
after death, and that a rally might hav(! Ijeen made twenty yards beyond the donga.

Colonel Harrison being called, stated that Carey was senior combatant officer, and must therefore have been in command of the party. Carey volunteered to go on the reconnaissance to verify certain points of his sketch. The Prince was ordered to go to report more fully on the ground. He had given the Prince into Carey's charge.

Examined by the Court, Colonel Harrison stated that when the Prince was attached to his department he was not told to treat him as a royal personage in the matter of escort, but as any other officer, taking due precaution against any possible danger.

Dr. Scott (the Prince's medical attendant) was then called, and stated that the Prince was killed by eighteen assegai wounds, any five of which would have been fatal. There were no bullet wounds. The Prince died where the body was found.

This closed the case for the prosecution.

The defence called again Colonel Harrison, who testified to Carey's abilities as a staff officer, and said he had every confidence in him.

Colonel Bellairs was also called, and stated that it was in consequence of the occurrence of the ist June that Carey had been deposed from his staff appointment the day previous to his trial.

Lieutenant Carey here submitted that his case had been prejudged, and that he had been punished before his trial.

The following is Lieutenant Carey's statement : —

"On the 31st May I was informed by Colonel Harrison, A.Q.M.G., that the Prince Imperial was to start on the ist June to ride over the road selected by me for the advance of the column, for the purpose of selecting a camping-ground for the 2nd June. I suggested at once that I should be allowed to go with him, as I knew the road and wanted to go over it again for the purpose of verifying certain points. To this Colonel Harrison consented, reminding me that the Prince was going at his own request to do this work, and that I was not to interfere with him in any way. For our escort, six Europeans of Bettington's Horse and six Basutos were ordered. Bettington's men were paraded at 9 a.m., but owing to some misunderstanding the Basutos did not turn up, and, the Prince being desirous of proceeding at once, we went without them. On arriving at the ridge between Itelezi and Incenci, I suggested waiting for them, but the Prince replied, Oh no; we are quite strong enough,' or words to that effect. We proceeded on our reconnaissance from there, halting about half-an-hour on a high hill overlooking the Ityotyozi for the Prince to sketch. From here the country was visible for miles, and no sign of the enemy could be discovered. We then descended into the valley, and, entering a kraal, off saddled, knee-haltering our horses. We had seen the deserted appearance of the country, and, though the kraal was to the right, surrounded by mealies, we thought there was no danger in encamping. If any blame is attributable to anyone for this, it is to me, as I agreed with the Prince that we were pertectly safe. I had been over this ground twice before and seen no one, and the brigade-major of the cavalry brigade had ridden over it with only two or three men, and laiiglied at me for taking so large an escort. We had witli us a friendly Zulu, who, in answer to my inquiries, said no Zulus were about. I trusted him, but still kept a sharp look-out, telesco{)e in hand. In about an hour that is, 3.40 P.M. the Prince ordered us to saddle up. We went into the mealies to catch our horses, but took at least ten minutes saddling. While doing so, the Zulu guide informed us he had seen a Zulu in the distance, but as he did not appear concerned, I saw no danger. The Prince was saddled up first, and, seeing him ready, I mounted, the men not being quite ready. The Prince then asked if they were all ready ; they answered in the afhrmative, and he gave the word, ' Prepare to mount.' At this moment I turned round, and saw the Prince with his foot in the stirrup, looking at the men. Presently I heard him say. ' Mount,' and turning to the men saw them vault into their saddles.
At this moment my eyes fell on about twenty black faces in the mealies, twenty to thirty yards oft, and I saw puffs of smoke and heard a rattling volley, followed by a rush, with shouts of ' Usutu !' There was at once a stampede. Two men rushed past me, and as everyone appeared to be mounted, I dug the spurs into my horse, which had already started of his own accord. I felt sure no one was wounded by the volley, as I heard no cry, and I shouted out, Keep to the left, and cross the donga, and rally behind it ! ' At the same time I saw more Zulus in the mealies on our left llank, cutting off our retreat. I crossed the donga behind two or three men, but could only get beyond one man, the others having ridden off. Riding a few hundred yards on to the rise, I stopped and looked round. I could see the Zulus after us, and saw that the men were escaping to the right, and that no one appeared on the other side of the donga. The man beside me then drew my attention to the Prince's horse, which was galloping away on the other side of the donga, saying, ' I fear the Prince is killed, sir! ' I immediately said, ' Do you think it is any use going back?' The trooper pointed to the mealies on our left, which appeared full of Kaffirs, and said, ' He is dead long ago, sir ; they assegai wounded men at once.' I considered he had fallen near the kraal, as his horse
was going from that direction, and it was useless to sacrifice more lives. I had but one man near me, the others being some 200 yards down the valley. I accordingly shouted to them to close to the left, and rode on to gain a drift over the Tombokala River, saying to the man at my side, ' We will keep back towards General

Wood's camp, not returning the same way we came, and then come back with some dragoons to get the bodies.' We reached camp about 6.30 P.M. When we were attacked our carbines were un- loaded, and, to the best of my behef, no shots were fired. I did not see the Prince after I saw him mounting, but he was mounted on a swift horse, and I thought he was close to me. Besides the Prince, we lost two troopers, as well as the friendly Zulu. Two troopers have been found between the donga and the kraal, covered with assegai wounds. They must have fallen in the retreat and been assegaied at once, as I saw no fighting when I looked round."

The court-martial condemned Lieutenant Carey, and he was sent home under arrest. But eventually, owing to the intervention of the bereaved Empress, and many sympathetic friends, the unfortunate officer was released. The news of the calamity was received with profound grief throughout the country. Some mourned the
death of a Prince, some sighed over the extinction of Napoleonic hopes, officers regretted the loss of a promising comrade, and mothers spent tears of sympathy for the great lady, Empress and mother, who had thus been bereft of her only child.

Source: SOUTH AFRICA AND THE
TRANSVAAL WAR





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PostSubject: Re: Jaheel Brenton Carey   Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:18 pm

Great post Littlehand. Good to see the facts from the court of enquiry.. Idea
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PostSubject: Re: Jaheel Brenton Carey   Tue Jul 05, 2011 7:20 pm

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© Bridgeman Art Library

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PostSubject: Re: Jaheel Brenton Carey   Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:55 pm

Sir George Pomeroy Colley gives the following account of what happened :

" Evelyn Wood and Buller were riding ahead of the column as usual to look out for a good camping ground, when suddenly they saw an officer riding furiously towards them — so furiously that Buller observed, ' Why, the man rides as if he thought the Kafirs were after him.' As he came nearer he gesticulated wildly and beckoned them to go back, but they rode on till they met him. ' Whatever is the matter with you ? ' said Buller. ' The Prince — the Prince Imperial is killed,' was all the man could gasp out, breathless and wild. ' Where — where is the body ? ' asked Buller sharply. The man could only gasp and point to a hill about 3 miles off, from which they could now see some twenty Kafirs going away in the opposite direction with three led horses. ' Where are your men, sir ? How many did you lose ? ' said Buller sharply and sternly, now thoroughly roused. ' They are behind me — I don't know,' stammered the unfortunate man. Then said Buller, turning on him savagely, ' You deserve to be shot, and I hope will be. I could shoot you myself,' and turned his back on him. Had it been either Wood or Buller, they would have turned had it been a thousand Kafirs, and probably would have brought him away."

On which the only comment that occurs to one is that neither Wood nor Buller would have allowed themselves to get trapped in the way that these unfortunate men were trapped, through sheer care- lessness. Fierce as his resentment at this unhappy officer's conduct was in the shock of the first news of the tragedy, his sense of justice led him later to urge in extenuation the fact that it was the man's first time under fire, and that another time he might do better. To the end of his career he refused to condemn a man for one mistake, withstanding even the orders of Government if necessary, in the accused's defence."


Source: " The Life of the Right Hon, Sir Redvers Buller".
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PostSubject: Re: Jaheel Brenton Carey   Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:46 pm

I didn't realise he had been sentence to be shot!
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PostSubject: Re: Jaheel Brenton Carey   Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:46 pm

It clearly obvious that the Prince had place himself in command. What ever was recommend he over ruled.

I just wonder what the outcome would have been if the Prince had survived, would Carey have spoke up stating that his was the Prince who had placed the party in danger and caused the loss of
Iife. The prince's reputation as being an excitable chap was well known among the ranks.
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PostSubject: Re: Jaheel Brenton Carey   Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:23 am

He was undone by his initial letter to
his wife.and with public sympathy on
his side, he stupid;y would not let it
drop.and his shameful harassment of
the Empress forced her to release the
letter written on that fateful night..
result.ruin.boycott, ( indian derivation)
isolation,premature death.
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