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 New Member RobOats

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1879graves

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PostSubject: New Member RobOats   Mon Feb 01, 2010 6:34 pm

Hi RobOats

and welcome to the forum :)
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littlehand

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PostSubject: Re: New Member RobOats   Mon Feb 01, 2010 7:39 pm

Rob. Welcome to the forum. Like all forums we have our ups and downs, but mostly up's. Hope you find the forum interesting, as you can tell some of us here are greenhorns, but we all enjoy contributing and it’s a great learning curve. I’m guessing the Film Zulu first got you interested in the Zulu War of 1879. Idea
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PostSubject: Re: New Member RobOats   Mon Feb 01, 2010 9:28 pm

Hi Rob. I came across your website. Very interesting. Always good to have someone who understands Genealogy. By the way welcome to the forum.

Heres a link to Robs site: http://www.oats.org.uk/gen/

sas1
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PostSubject: Re: New Member RobOats   Mon Feb 01, 2010 10:31 pm

Rob. Sorry, I should have said earlier. Welcome to the forum.
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PostSubject: Re: New Member RobOats   Mon Feb 01, 2010 10:46 pm

Rob. Good to see you onboard.
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90th

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PostSubject: new member   Tue Feb 02, 2010 4:07 am

hi Rob ,
welcome to the forum , hope you enjoy it.
cheers 90th.
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RobOats



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PostSubject: Re: New Member RobOats   Tue Feb 02, 2010 9:15 am

Thank you all for the very warm welcome.

The interest in the war is very personal in that my gr-grandparents were early settlers in Pietermartizburg (circa 1864/5). Their eldest son Fred Jackson joined the Natal Carbineers in 1878 and sadly lost his life at Isandlwana.

A report made by Lt Royston who led the burial party for the unit on Jun 20 1879 indicates that Fred's remains were found with those of Malcolm Moodie 400 yards towards the camp from where the other Carbineers were found. It may be supposed that the 2 lads may have been sent to get more ammunition and were caught in the open going to or from the camp.

The family link goes further as Fred's brother, Percy Jackson, became an architect and was commissioned by the Natal Carbineers to design and supervise the construction of the memorial at Isandlwana. The design and stone used is very similar to the Jackson famliy tomb in the old cemetery in Commercial Road, Pietermaritzburg.

I first visited Rorkes Drift as a child in 1958. In those days the area was very rural with Zulu women still in their tribal dress. Isandlwana was almost inaccessable to ordinary vehicles.

The circumstances of Isandlwana and lack of survivors led to all sorts of rumours and unsubstantiated claims. In the light of subsequent history, Chelmsford's command capability is highly questionable to say the least. The lack of clear information, deception, and the wholesale slaughter of well armed and trained troops by an army of men armed with shields and spears left everyone dumbfounded and still does. Herein lies the fascination. From a personal perspective I cannot but wonder at the sheer terror that my great uncle, aged just 16 (and just turned 16) would have gone through in those final moments. Fred's memory and bravery have persisted through the generations of the family.
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90th

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PostSubject: new member Rob Oats.   Tue Feb 02, 2010 11:53 pm

hi Rob .
Fascinating story and glad you shared it with us , one can only imagine what must have gone
through poor Fred"s head at the tender age of 16 he was about to face a most horrendous demise .
Hopefully it was quick and merciful. Do you have a photo of Fred that you can post on the Forum ?.
cheers 90th.
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RobOats



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PostSubject: Re: New Member RobOats   Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:13 am

90th wrote:
hi Rob .
Hopefully it was quick and merciful. Do you have a photo of Fred that you can post on the Forum ?.
cheers 90th.

No there are no photos from this period in the albums I have. Pietermaritzburg in 1879 was a frontier town so photographers and photography would have had low priorities. The first family photos are dated in the late 1800's. I hoped that group photos may have been taken prior to the units departure. The only photo I have seen was of a group of about 4 Carbineers. There is a photo of
Malcolm Moodie who died alongside Fred that was posted last year. You'll notice in this blog that she says that a large number of spent cartridge cases were found around their bodies. I have been in contact with her to establish the source of the information. Perhaps this is contained in the full version of Royston's report. I presume his report is in the South African Military Archives. The Natal Carbineers don't appear to have much information about this period either.

The city lies at the base of the foothills to the Drakensberg mountains. The road climbs almost 2000 feet up on to the high veld over a distance of about 10 miles. There is a hill called Worlds View looking down over the city and one can still see the marks of the wagon wheels in the rock as they dragged up the incline by large teams of oxen. This was the reason why the column made its way to Zululand via Greytown.
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PostSubject: Re: New Member RobOats   Wed Feb 03, 2010 3:47 pm

This is interesting; we have discussed the issue with the Drummer boys at Isandlwana,and Neil as showed that the youngest was 18. Yet we now have Fred, who had just turned 16 years of age, so am I right in assuming that there were young boys at Isandlwana like Fred, actually fighting in the ranks. Because if that’s the case, the drummer boys found on the meat hooks may well have been from the rank and file.

And Is it possible that Fred was the youngest to fight and Die at Isandlwana?
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PostSubject: Re: New Member RobOats   Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:38 pm

Good question. It has been mentioned many times that they were drummer boys. Are there any records showing the age of the boys in the regiments like Jack.
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PostSubject: Re: New Member RobOats   Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:12 pm

Natal Carbineers Casualties Isandlwana 1879

Lieut F J D Scott Natal Carbineers Isandlwana
Q/Master W London Natal Carbineers Isandlwana
Trooper J Blaikie Natal Carbineers Isandlwana
Trooper G Bornin Natal Carbineers Isandlwana
Trooper I C Bullock Natal Carbineers Isandlwana
Trooper G C S Christian Natal Carbineers Isandlwana
Trooper J Deane Natal Carbineers Isandlwana
Trooper J Lumley Natal Carbineers Isandlwana
Trooper W Mendenhall Natal Carbineers Isandlwana
Trooper J Ross Natal Carbineers Isandlwana
Trooper E Tarboton Natal Carbineers Isandlwana
Trooper H Davis Natal Carbineers Isandlwana
Trooper H Dickenson Natal Carbineers Isandlwana
Trooper W Hawkins Natal Carbineers Isandlwana
Trooper C Hayhow Natal Carbineers Isandlwana
Trooper C Haldane Natal Carbineers Isandlwana
Trooper R Jackson Natal Carbineers Isandlwana
Trooper G Macleroy Natal Carbineers Isandlwana
Trooper M Moodie Natal Carbineers Isandlwana
Trooper W Swift Natal Carbineers Isandlwana
Trooper J Whitelaw Natal Carbineers Isandlwana
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PostSubject: Re: New Member RobOats   Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:35 pm

Rob. Do you know what happened to Fred’s Campaign Medal.

S.D
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PostSubject: Re: New Member RobOats   Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:16 pm

Two companies of the Natal Native Contingent remained on picket whilst a detachment of the Natal Carbineers remained on vedette duty.

Meaning they had basically been hung out to dry. picket & vedette duty. (For what purpose) the Zulus were seen advancing towards the camp. Why not bring them all in.


"Brevet Lt-Colonel H B Pulleine, 1/24th, was left in command at Isandlwana camp. At 8am Zulus were seen advancing towards the encampment from the North-west. Pulleine recalled his regular pickets who joined the rest of the infantry in forming up before the camp. Two companies of the Natal Native Contingent remained on picket whilst a detachment of the Natal Carbineers remained on vedette duty."


Dave.
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RobOats



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PostSubject: Re: New Member RobOats   Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:41 am

John; I have seen that list before and it does omit Fred Jackson. I am not sure of the source. However, if you look at the published list at;

http://www.northeastmedals.co.uk/britishguide/zulu/despatch5_isandhlwana_isandlwana_casualty.htm

he is listed. Further the burial party under Lt Royston specifically identifies him along with Malcolm Moodie in his report. I have emailed SA Mil. History Museum to see whether Royston's full report was retained.

SA Mil History Museum states that all the service records relating to the AZW were pulped during WW1.

Saul David 1879;
I am not sure what happened to Fred's medal. It was quite a large family of 8 and I descend from a female line. I am in contact with Percy's descendants and they are not aware of where the medal went.

Dave;

I think the use of the Carbineers as scouts was planned. Being an irregular unit raised from the local Colonists they had special attributes not held by the regulars.

Most if not all of them would have been fluent Zulu linguists. Certainly that was the case with Fred because the Jackson children all had Zulu nannies and all of them spoke fluent Zulu. My mother told me that the nanny was absolutely distraught when told of Fred's death.

They were used as mounted scouts from the very beginning as reporters with the force on the outward journey have recorded this fact.

Most if not all used their own horses and rifles. Shooting was a regular part of life even whilst I was growing up in the African veld and there is no doubt they would have been good shots, very familiar with their own rifles and very familiar with nature and signs not obvious to people familiar with the environment. The Boer forces in the Anglo/Boer War were a prime example of this fact.
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