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 Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.

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Chelmsfordthescapegoat

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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Mon Aug 15, 2011 6:25 am

"Gert Wilhelm Adendorff"
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Julian Whybra



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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Tue Sep 13, 2011 12:43 pm

Those who use Morris and Forsyth as sources should be very careful - in fact they shouldn't at all. Morris is extremely unreliable in terms of factual evidence and 'fanciful' in his assertions. Forsyth's work is riddled with errors (to be fair, he was working at a time when much had been undiscovered; he did the best he could under the circumstances). Neither can be relied upon. Time for a few hard facts:

Lieutenant Gert Wilhelm ADENDORFF 1st battalion, 3rd Regiment Natal Native Contingent, 6 coy

(A) Second-hand remarks occur in Capt. W. H. Stafford’s account, Natal Mercury, 22nd January 1929.
(B) Second-hand remarks occur in Maxwell.81
(C) Second-hand remarks occur in Capt. W. H. Stafford’s statement made to C. M. Ethridge, Solicitor, Harding, undated but thought to be dated early January 1939 in the Zulu War drawer, Talana Museum, Dundee, Natal.
Appears on the list of survivors posted at Helpmekaar on 24th January and in official returns.
His initial is erroneously given as ‘J’ on an early list which Morris interpreted incorrectly as ‘James’.82
Mentioned by Lieutenant Chard R.E. in both his official report of the Battle of Rorke’s Drift and in his private report to Queen Victoria, and in the account of Lieut. Higginson N.N.C., who stated that Adendorff had recently transferred to the N.N.C. from the Kaffrarian Rifles.
Arrived at Rorke’s Drift in company with a “Carbineer” 83 [Sibthorpe?84] who rode on to warn Helpmekaar.
Escaped via the Fugitives’ Trail, the left (Zulu) bank of the River Buffalo (because he could not swim) and “by the road to Rorke’s Drift”.85 Captain Stafford N.N.C. recorded (statement dictated in January 1938 in the Zulu War drawer, Talana Museum, Dundee, Natal) that, “Lieutenant Odendorff (sic, for Adendorff), and another man, as both could not swim they hugged the bed of the river up to the punt and were ferried across the river. It was them who gave the alarm to Rorke’s Drift. Lieut. Odendorff escaped again but I think his friend was among the 18 that were killed.” Stafford was 80 years old at the time and was mistaken about the friend. Adendorff stayed to assist in the defence. He subsequently rode to Pietermaritzburg.
Photograph in the Talana Museum, Dundee, Natal (caption marked “Adendorf”[sic]).

81 Maxwell, John, ‘Reminiscences of the Zulu War’, Natal Witness, Christmas Number, 1879. The
typescript is in the Killie Campbell Africana Library, Zulu War 1879 Vol. II, pp. 203-4 (the
original is initialled ‘J. M.’). An edited version (which contains a number of typographical errors) was also
published by Twentyman Jones, Leonie (ed.), Reminiscences of the Zulu War by John Maxwell, (Cape
Town, 1979), p. 188.
82 Morris , Donald R., The Washing of the Spears, (London, 1965), p. 356.
83 Chard V.C., R.E., Maj. J. R. M., ‘An account of the Defence of Rorke’s Drift’, written at the personal
request of Queen Victoria, and submitted to Her Majesty at Windsor Castle, 21st February 1880. First
published in Holme, Norman, The Silver Wreath, (London, 1979), pp. 49-53.
84 Binns, C. T., The Last Zulu King - The Life and Death of Cetshwayo, (London, 1963), p. 137.
85 Maxwell, op. cit., p. 188.
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littlehand

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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Wed Nov 02, 2011 10:30 pm

Stafford’s 1939 account in which details of their escape from Isandlwana was described related some details that Adendorff had recounted to him during a meeting. He wrote:

"I met Odendorff in 1883 and he told me that Rorke’s Drift was saved through two Godsends. The first was that the Zulus retired in the middle of the night,
apparently to hold a little consultation and that gave the garrison time to
strengthen the weak parts of the little fort, and the Martini Henry carbines time to cool off. The other was the Zulus setting fire to the thatch building which gave a bright light round the little fort and when the Zulus came volley after volley was poured into them. He also told me that Rev. W. Smith was a great help. You will always find that in a tight corner there is a hard case and that there was one at Rorke’s Drift. This man was cussing all the time. The Rev. Smith went up to him and said “Please, my good man stop that cussing. We may shortly have to answer for our sins”. The reply he got was “All right Mister, you do the praying and I will send the black B’s to Hell as fast as I can”.
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impi

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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Wed Nov 02, 2011 10:59 pm

Who is " Stafford"
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kwajimu1879

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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Thu Nov 03, 2011 12:56 am

Impi,

Captain Walter Stafford, 1st Battalion, 1st Regiment, Natal Native Contingent, who survived Isandlwana.

kwJimu1879
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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:23 am

I dont see how there can be any doubt about his presence. Lets put it this way, theres more evidence for than against.


Regards
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Drummer Boy 14

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PostSubject: Adendorff infomation   Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:16 am

Posted by John Young.

Back in 1991 at the Local history Museum, Durban, I found an almanac belonging Lt. Henry Charles Harford, 99th Foot, attached as a special service officer to the Natal Native Contingent.

This little booklet appears to have been used due to the lack of paper following the events at Isandlwana & Rorke’s Drift. On one page there is a comment, “Names of Off & Men who were at the defence of Rk Dt” and as plain as day in pencil is written the name of “Lt. Adendorff”. Other entries have the word “bolted” next to them, notably “Stevenson”, yet no such word appears alongside the name of Adendorff.

The booklet also contains details of Adendorff’s next of kin and the area where they lived, “Graff Reinett”. It also indicates that Adendorff had two horses killed at Isandlwana, and he was seeking compensation. The information contained in this booklet was compiled at Rorke’s Drift, there is even an update that Schiess had been moved to Helpmekaar.

This little booklet I feel is the key to the fact that Adendorff fought at Rorke’s Drift



Cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:45 am

Hi all

This is the only guy who fought at Isandhlwana and R D and it has not even been medalist ... scratch

Cheers

Pascal
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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:52 am

Henderson and the NNH fourght at both.
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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:03 am

No Henderson or NNH at RD...

They are only a Corporal William Anderson ( not Henderson )of the 2 nd Battallion of the 3 rd Natal Native Contingent ,no of the NNH but of infantry (the 3 rd regiment ) of the NNC.

Cheers

Pascal
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Drummer Boy 14

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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:07 am

They rode up from Isandlwana, stayed and fired a few vollleys then rode of to Helmpekeer.
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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:12 am

yes but they are not at the battle of RD...
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Chard1879

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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:09 pm

Was Adendroff ever mentioned by any of the other defenders as being seen at RD during the defence.
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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:55 am

Chard
Yes he was mentioned twice.
No doubt in my mind he was there.

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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:29 am

Hi all

Maybe because he survived Isandhlwana?

Wherever he was not friendly?

Where 'because it came from the colonial troops ... ?

I also believe he had a bad conduct in the future ...

Cheers

Pascal
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90th

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PostSubject: Lietenant Adendorff   Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:55 am

Hi Pascal.
If you read my earlier posts on page 1 and those posted by other members all your questions will be answered .
cheers 90th. Salute
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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:16 am

hI Garry

I doubt it, but know what I said in the topic of adm.sur this kind of behavior ...

Cheers

Pascal
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60thRifleman



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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:00 pm

Apologies for joining this topic a bit late in the day.

A "spent" bullet is one that has lost most of its penetrative power, be that due to range, an inadequate charge or having passed through or ricocheting off something . Wounds caused by spent bullets are therefore not as serious as others (unless the bullet is tumbling) and often remain in the wound rather than passing through the body.

As regards Adendorff's escape route, Pvt Wassall of the 80th/Mtd Inf recalled "...A main road led to the river but the road was cut off by the Zulus and I had to take a road across the veldt, I knew nothing about. But, I was not in the mood to care which way I went as long as it took me away from the enemy, and so I went furiously on, stumbling over the rough rocky ground, expecting every instant that my horse, a Basuto pony would fall."

Escape by routes other than down the Fugutives Trail was therefore possible. It all comes down to Chard's recollection of the time he saw Adendorff.

Adendorff did himself no favours by taking a horse at gun-point but who knows how we would behave in the same circumstances.
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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:15 pm

60th rifleman
You are confusing Adendorff (who did not take a horse) with Higginson (who did) and there is no mention of guns pointing anywhere by either man. There is no question that Adendorff escaped by following the left bank of the river down to Rorke's Drift in company with Lieut. Vaines because neither man could swim. Stafford explicitly states this in the part of his account where he relates the experiences of other survivors.
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60thRifleman



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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:29 pm

Julian - re taking a horse etc. please see 90th's post further up the page.

"His horse was killed as he rode down into the Manzimnyama valley, but he commandeered another at gunpoint from a mounted auxiliary. He then attached himself to Hlubi’s Tlokoa, one of the few mounted groups who escaped the battlefield in any order. Hlubi’s men forced a way through the Zulu right ‘horn’ and rode across country to Rorke’s Drift. When they approached the river, Adendorff and another survivor rode ahead to warn Chard’s party at the ponts; Hlubi’s men crossed by the Drift downstream, then dismounted to rest."
"
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Julian Whybra



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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:48 pm

60th rifleman
The account 90th referred to is stated to be anonymous. No reference is given (does anyone know where it is? I don't). There is absolutely no reason to suppose it is Adendorff as it contradicts other statements made about his movements. It is more likely to be Hall since it fits his known movements rather better.
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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:53 pm

Julian
I was suprised when I saw that quote, its from one of Ian knights books. Probably Zulu Rising.

Regards
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90th

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PostSubject: Lt Adendorff 1 / 3 NNC.   Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:58 pm

Hi Julian , 60th Rifles , Springbok .
I can certainly tell you that no -one is more surprised than me about the Adendorff post ...............and I wrote it !. I copied it from
Who's Who Of The Zulu War ' The Colonials . I'm not home and wont be till tomorrow , if anyone has the book can they check it ?. I dont ever remember hearing of Adendorff taking a horse by gunpoint , but as I said , I did write so in my earlier post , I know Higginson took a horse and took off , Vereker also , but he handed this over when the apparent owner appeared .
cheers 90th. Salute
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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:17 am

Must admit that Adendorff not appearing on the medal roll is very curious. However, i don't believe there is any conspiracy against him. Hundreds of colonials got medals so I can't entertain that some sort of Imperial snootiness (if that's a word?) was involved.

There is a far more simple explanation, we just don't know it yet. Most probably an error compiling or transcribing the medal rolls.

Could Adendorff not have crossed the Manzimnyama further south than Fugitive's Drift and worked his way upstream on the Natal side?

The comment about not being able to swim and thus avoiding Fugitive's Drift may be true but - 1. It could be a lie to divert suspicion as to why no-one else saw him on the Fugitive's Trail (ie he left the camp early), 2. How did he know what Fugitive's Drift was like unless he saw it, and if he worked his way along the Zulu side of the river, how did he avoid the Zulus? 3. Most people seem to have crossed the river holding on to their horse - why couldn't Adendorff do the same?

Lots of men failed to escape the Zulus by riding straight to Fugitive's Drift and then trying to cross immediately but were overtaken. We are expected to believe that Adendorff got there, decided he didn't like the look of the water and then had time to find a better crossing point. It's suspicious I think. However, this man still stayed at Rorke's Drift when the outlook for that post was grim to say the least, so maybe he is telling the truth. Can't believe a man can change from a "coward" to a "hero" in such a short space of time.

Do we know where Evans and Whelan the mounted infantrymen crossed?
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90th

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PostSubject: Lt Adendorff 1 / 3 NNC.   Tue Mar 06, 2012 12:12 pm

Hi 60thRifleman.
Unfortunately for me I'm not home tonight so I dont have Julians book with me . I'm sure Julian will be able to answer your question regarding Evans & Whelan and their crossing point / points !. Or if anyone has ' Englands Son's ' maybe they can post the answer .
cheers 90th. Salute
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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Tue Mar 06, 2012 1:27 pm

Ian knight credits Hlubi with that quote. So that would have to put Adendorff on the road, not the Fugitives Trail.

Secretary of Native Affairs Papers 1/1/34 No 159.

regards

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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:28 pm

90th/60th rifleman
Evans and Whelan were ordered to warn Rd by Col. Bray at Sand Spruit. The terrain and logic dictate that they can only have crossed at Fugitives' Drift.

springbok
(1) I have a copy of that Hlubi account and there is no mention of any such incident. I have checked the other Hlubi account and such a thing does not appear in that either. These accounts are:
(A) Hlubi kaMota’s Statement dated 29th July 1879, taken by John Shepstone. ‘Statement of the Chief Hlubi in the Ulundi division of the Colony of Natal’, Pietermaritzburg Archive Repository, SNA I/1/34 No. 159.
(B) Hlubi Molife’s Account (and post-war conversation [described as occurring years after] with Mehlokazulu, Section P, no. 8) is recorded in Lee, A.W., Charles Johnson of Zululand, (London, 1930), p. 44.
(2) "So that would have to put Adendorff on the road, not the Fugitives Trail." It does no such thing, I'm afraid, not yet, and not by a long chalk.

This 'loose' quotation disturbs me greatly and I have the feeling, if we're not careful, that, by default, Adendorff, as before with TWOTS, will be saddled with another misdeed credited to his name. I would therefore like to get to the bottom of it.
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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:38 pm

Julian
I quoted the source directly from Ian Knight.

Evans must have crossed at FD, he had the note from Gardner.

Regards


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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:28 pm

springbok

Re Evans
That was my conclusion too.

Re Adendorff
I'm looking at a photocopy of the original and there is no mention of this incident. I've typed it out for you below so you can see it for yourself (I don't normally do this - the reference is normally enough, but I think it's important that people see that this attribution/quotation is plain wrong). I suggest you e-mail the publishers asking them to forward your query on to the authors asking them for the correct attribution. You may or may not get a response depending on which one it is forwarded to. I look forward to any answer!

Pietermaritzburg Archives Repository, SNA I/1/34 No. 159.
Statement of the Chief Hlubi in the Ulundi division of the Colony of Natal.
I and the men of my tribe that were ordered by the Government to serve in the war against the Zulus entered the Zulu country by crossing the Buffalo River at Rorke’s drift. We were under the command of Colonel Durnford. There were also the Edendale men and Zikhali’s with us. The morning after we crossed the Buffalo, a letter was brought to our camp by a mounted messenger from the camp of the General at Sandhlwana. What this letter said I do not know but we were ordered to saddle our horses and move on to the General’s camp. We did so. On reaching the camp, which was about the same time as it is now (about 10 a.m.) we were shown the advance Guards of the Zulu force. We dismounted and sat for some time, when Colonel Durnford directed us, that is, my men and those of Edendale, to go with him in pursuit of the Zulus who were said to be retiring. Mr George Shepstone was sent in another direction with the men of Zikhali. We were not long before we heard firing in our rear, and while wondering what it could mean we met the Zulus. Fighting then commenced. Captain Russell, who had the Rocket Gun was one of first to fall. After this we had to fall back upon the Camp, the Zulus following us. We reached a “donga” (watercourse) where we stood and kept the Zulus in check. While here our ammunition ran low and we asked for more, and an order was given that some of the men should go to the Camp for some. Before this could be done we saw that the Camp was being taken. Colonel Durnford rode off to the Camp with one man leaving us with Mr Henderson. We left the donga and followed Colonel Durnford. By this time we had to fight the Zulus on all sides of us. On nearing the camp, we saw the Native Contingent break and run towards the Buffalo followed by the Drivers and leaders of the Camp Wagons. The Zulus on seeing this shouted “It is beaten.” “They are running.” This emboldened the Zulus and the Camp was soon full of them. Seeing that it was useless to attempt anything beyond saving my men, having very little ammunition left, I made my way to Rorke’s drift forcing my way through be belt of Zulus on that side. I reached Rorke’s drift and crossed it, off-saddling this side. After a while I saddled up and made for Helpmakaar. On ascending the Biggarsberg, I saw a force of Zulus marching from Sandhlwana to Rorke’s drift.
If we black people had been placed under a white man whom we knew and who knew our language, and with whom we could speak, and had we been allowed to fight in our own way, instead of being placed as we were under a Soldier Chief, (military officer) we might have shown the Government what we could do for it. I believe that had the blacks been placed under men as I have already described, the end of the battle of Sandhlwana would have been different. Soldier Chief expect you to fight their way, but it was a way we did not understand, and it rendered us unfit, inasmuch as that we lost heart, and got out of the way as soon as we could, when we saw danger.
I have spoken to many Zulus who took part in other engagements against us and they say that their worst days, in which they suffered most, were Sandhlwana and Kambule. They admit that at the others they were beaten and had numbers killed, but they were not to be compared to the two stated.
The Zulus also say that they do not now know how to attack us, for the white man they find fights just as well in the open as in a camp behind wagons, and that the firing in rear of our troops is as destructive as the front. The way in which the Zulus were defeated at Ulundi quite astonished them.
In my presence this 29th day of July 1879.
J. Shepstone
A. S. N. A
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90th

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PostSubject: Lt Adendorff 1 / 3 NNC.   Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:04 am

Hi All.
This is from ' Who's Who In The Zulu War ' by Knight & Greaves ; '' His own account of the day - in a letter published anonymously - is entirely consistant with other sources , and indeed brutally honest . Adendorff says that he stayed in the camp
until the british line collapsed , then tried to make his escape . His horse was killed as he rode down into the Manzimnyama Valley , but he commandeered another at Gunpoint from a mounted auxiliary . He then attached himself to Hlubi's Tlokoa , one of the few mounted groups who escaped the battlefield in any order . Hlubi's men forced a way through the right horn and rode across country to Rorke's Drift . When they approached the river , Adendorff and another survivor rode ahead to warn Lt Chard's party at the ponts ; Hlubi's men crossed by the drift downstream , then dismounted to rest '' .
cheers 90th. Salute
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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:12 am

90th
(1) There is confusion here. Springbok has given one source from this book which turns out not to be the source; you are stating it comes from another but have not given a reference. Could you please do so so that I can check the origin?
(2) You wrote that the source is ''His own account of the day - in a letter published anonymously". This is paradoxical. How can it be both anonymous and by Adendorff at one and the same time? Either it is by Adendorff or it is anonymous. Which is it?
(3) If you have quoted correctly from this source then it is NOT entirely consistent with other sources. It contradicts them. If it IS anonymous then Greaves or Knight has attributed this to Adendorff - and incorrectly in my opinion based on what's been so far quoted.
(4) Can whoever has this book please clarify the source?
The page number in the book would be good, the footnote number, and what the footnote says the source is called (precisely), when it was written, where it was published, and where it is deposited would be enough.
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PostSubject: Lt Adendorff 1 / 3 NNC.   Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:20 am

Hi Julian .
Please dont shoot the messenger Salute , My previous post is what's written in the book on page 2 , there are no footnotes
or any other referance points . Hoping you may be able to sort it out one way or another .
cheers 90th. Salute
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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:46 am

Julian
The reference I quoted is verbatim Ian Knight, Zulu Rising, Page 429.
This is obviously quoted by ian Knight in more than one publication.
I have e mailed panmacmillan and requested clarification. I am also attempting to source a direct e mail address for Ian.

The full passage reads:
"After seperating from Harry Davis, Alfred Henderson had fallen in with his own troop, Durnfords Tlokoa, who were still holding together under Hlubi Molife. They had been joined by a number of other fugitives, including Lieutenant Gert Adendorff of Krohn's company, who had resorted to desperate measures to escape-his horse had been killed as he left isandlwana, and he had commandeered another from a passing auxiliary at gunpoint. The Tlokoa was one of only two groups to get away in any kind of order, and it forced its way through the right horn by shooting a volley at a point where the Zulu horns were thinnest. The horn soon closed up behind it: these were the last men to escape by the Rorkes Drift Road."

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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:43 am

springbok
Thanks. I have that. No reference relating to the alleged anecdote is given unfortunately.
60thrifleman/90th
Over to you I think. Where have you seen it?
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PostSubject: Lt Adendorff 1 / 3 NNC.   Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:57 am

Hi Julian .
As I stated previously I copied it from ' Who's Who In The Zulu War - The Colonials ' by Greaves & Knight . Page 2 .
cheers 90th.
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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:24 am

Looking at the Adendorff time scale.
Established facts are he arrived at RD and reported to Chard.
When he had delivered his report to Chard a messenger had arrived from Bromhead recalling Chard. That in responce to a note received from Gardner via Evans.
Conjecture I know, but bare with me, Gardner and Evans being together on the Natal bank would indicate they arrived fairly close together, they were after all being shot at and possibly pursued so would be unlikely to hang around to much.
From statements given we know that Essex was also with Gardner as was Macphail, Cochrane and Stafford.
Gardener gave Evans a note and sent him of to RD.
Again conjecture but I would assume that Adendorff would not have left after Essex et al. So the latest he would have left would be at the same time. Therefore he, Adendorff would have ridden to FD, seen the chaos at the river, struck of on the Zulu bank to the North. However in doing so he would have run smack bang into the iNdluyengwe, assuming he got through them he would have then had a really bad ride along the Zulu bank unti RD and still arrived at more or less the same time as Evans, riding the far easier Natal bank ( there were roads/pathways connecting the farms.)
I dont believe he could have done it. He had to have taken a different route, or left significantly earlier.

Just a few thoughts to be kicked around.

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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:27 pm

90th
Thanks for page no. but there must be a footnote saying where this doc is, isn't there?
springbok
Bray says that he ordered two IMI to RD (he thought the man's name was Edwards but there was no Edwards in the MI). The only two men to go to RD from the IMI were Evans and Whelan. Gardner does not record the man's name to whom he gave a message for RD (and we have no idea whether he went there or not). Stafford (who knew Adendorff) states that Adendorff told him that he (and Vaines) got to the river, neither could swim, so both followed the bank north to RD. Why mention Vaines (if he were lying it would have been better to say he went alone)? Chard states that 2 men approached RD from the south on the far bank of the river and one of them was Adendorff. It could well be that Adendorff left the camp earlier than most, say when Pakade's men broke and ran. It wouldn't have to be much earlier to avoid the inDluyengwe.
Really the whole thing depends on this quotation's reference in Greaves and Knight, what the original says, and where it is, and on what basis it is ascribed to Adendorff. If it is anonymous it could be anybody!! We are discussing in the dark till we know.
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PostSubject: Lt Adendorff 1 / 3 NNC.   Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:36 pm

Hi Julian.
Unfortunately there are no footnotes or any referances at all in the book . There is a bibliography but it doesnt give you any details as to what is attributed to what ! . Hope that makes sense . Shocked .
cheers 90th.
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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:04 pm

Julian
Chard didnt record the second mans name just that he was a Carbineer, for some reason I have him down as a Trooper Sibthorpe, not Vaine. I will need to track back for that reference though.
I also have him listed as travelling part way with Henderson and Bob Hall.



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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:44 pm

90th
Thank you very much. I'm afraid we are not much further. If I learn anything from my own contacts I'll let you know.

springbok
It was CT Binns in his book who first postulated that it might have been Trooper Sibthorpe who was with Adendorff. This was based on the fact that Chard said the second man was in his shirtsleeves and might have been a Carbineer and that Sibthorpe was the only Carbineer whose movements were unaccounted for.
Morris in TWOTS has Adendorff escaping with Lieut. Vane (sic). I know of no evidence anywhere indicating that Vaines was in company with Henderson and Hall.

To summarise:
The anecdote in Who's Who by Greaves and Knight has no footnoted reference. It simply states that it is "Adendorff's own account in an anonymous letter", which is clearly nonsensical, and that it was later published somewhere without saying where.
The anecdote in Zulu Rising by Knight is conjoined with an anecdote about Hlubi's men. The footnote (31) relates only to Hlubi.
Neither relates how the letter can be attributed to Adendorff. All very unsatisfactory!
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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:52 pm

If Stafford is to be believed then Adendorff reached the Buffalo south of Rorkes Drift and followed the river north to the punts.

Extract from the recollections of the battle of Isandlwana, by Walter Stafford late Capt of the NNC , c 1939.
' Reverting to R.D , a friend of mine , Lt. Adendorff and another man , as both could not swim , hugged the bed
of the river up to the punt and were ferried across the river . It was them who gave the alarm to R.D .

If Hlubi is to be believed he (Hlubi) crossed at Rorke's Drift.

"I made my way to Rorke’s drift forcing my way through be belt of Zulus on that side. I reached Rorke’s drift and crossed it, off-saddling this side."

Therefore Adendorff could not have escaped the camp with Hlubi's men as they both hit the river at different points. Also Stafford's account does not mention Hlubi 's men (who, one would reasonably deduce were the only reason Adendorff survived if he escaped with them), which seems strange.

Chard also does not mention Hlubi's men who he surely would have seen being down by the ponts at Rorke's Drift. Chard does however confirm ferrying Adendorff across on the ponts.

As Julian says we need to know the reference that Knight is quoting from as it only seems to be this reference that links Hlubi and Adendorff together, and if Adendorff was not with Hlubi, how did he avoid the Zulus?.

Incidentally, Chard says the two IMI crossed at Fugitives' Drift in his letter to HM
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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:11 pm

60th rifleman
“Chard also does not mention Hlubi's men who he surely would have seen being down by the ponts at Rorke's Drift. Chard does however confirm ferrying Adendorff across on the ponts.”
He does mention them twice:
1st time at 3.30 “an officer of Durnford’s Horse reported his arrival from Isandhlwana, and I requested him to observe the movements, and check the advance of, enemy as much as possible until forced to fall back.”
2nd time at 4.20 “the officer of Durnford’s returned, reporting the enemy close upon us, and that his men would not obey his orders but were going off to Helpmekaar, and I saw them, about 100 in number, going off in that direction.”
This was Henderon and his (Hlubi) Troop NNH together with the Edendale Troop.
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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:47 pm

Apologies Julian, I missed that.

Chard gives Adendorff's arrival at the ponts as about 3.15pm and Durnford's Horse at the post at about 3.30pm, so if they all escaped together somehow Adendorff got a 15 minute head start.
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PostSubject: Lt Adendorff 1 / 3 NNC.   Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:29 pm

Hi 60th Rifleman.
In one of my earlier posts it was stated that Adendorff and another man after approaching the river rode off to warn the camp at RD , While Hlubi's men crossed further downstream and decided to rest after crossing the river , this may explain why Hlubi's men arrived 15 mins after Adendorff & companion .
cheers 90th.
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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:46 pm

Hi 90th - but why would Adendorff and his Carbineer friend split from the only viable unit on the Zulu side of the river when the whole area was swarming with Zulus? Just to warn RD? Why didn't Hlubi also cross at the ponts?
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PostSubject: Lt Adendorff 1 / 3 NNC.   Thu Mar 08, 2012 5:11 am

Hi 60thRifleman.
There wouldnt have been any zulus in the vicinity of RD as the zulu didnt get there for an hour or two later . No doubt it was quicker for the Mtd Men to cross downstream on horseback than wait for the pont to go across and come back again .
cheers 90th. Salute
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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:14 am

Julian
I know of no evidence to suggest that Adendorffs companion was Lt Vaine. Chard is pretty unequivacal when he says a Carbineer.

60th/Julian
Your timing is pretty exact?
For Chard to meet Adendorf at 3.15, instruct his men to pack up and then ride back to RD get briefed by Bromhead and still issue orders to Henderson at 3.30?
Thats really moving.

Hlubis men were spotted by Reynolds moving across the plain. So absolutly no doubt as to the direction they travelled.

I really cannot see why, the much maligned, Adendorff would need to to lie about his escape route.
I dont believe he could have taken the established trail and 'think' he probably took the Northern route missing out on the Mpethe crown and hit the river to the north of the crossing. Looking at the timing it makes sense.

Reynolds, Smith et al on Shiyane record that they witnessed the iNdluyengwe crossing the Mzinyathi and forming up. We arent talking a heck of distance here both in mileage and time. If Adendorf did take the Fugitives trail they where seconds ahead of the impi.

Dunne records that he, with Bromhead were about to go to the river to see a group of Horsemen ( could that have been Adendorf?) that were aproaching when a 'mounted man in shirt sleeves' delivered a message from Gardner. Is this possibly the man you refer to Julian?

Subsequently Henderson and Hlubis horse arrived


Interesting time scale going on.

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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:37 am

Hi All

I have been passed the following and asked to post it on the forum.

OK, here is the anonymous Adendorff letter. It was published in the Natal Witness on 18 Feb 1879. Now, there is a slight problem in that someone copied it out for me by hand, and I can't now read a few of their words (!) - hence the question marks in the typescript. But you can get all the important stuff. It isn't identified as Adendorff, but it must be him because of his mentions of Barry's company - someone else, I forget who offhand, confirms his presence in this context - and because he is the only one who could claim to have been at both iSandlwana and Rorke's Drift. His account of his escape is brutally honest and no doubt true (why would you make up that you stole horses to escape?). Clearly the Witness was not much impressed - they published it without his name and calling him a poltroon - a coward. The reference to 'A Brave Fugitive' is sarcastic of course. Hlubi's own account refers to his men shooting their way through the right horn and stopping at Rorke's Drift to water their horses - piece that together with this and Adendorff's account is entirely credible.

Natal Witness, 18.02.79
POLTROON’S ACCOUNT OF ISANDLWANA AND RORKE’S DRIFT
‘A Brave Fugitive’ The following letter has been passed to us, we presume for publication. The utter poltroonery of the writer is only equalled by his inability to see –

I promised to give you a better description of that frightful massacre at Isandhlwana, Zululand. I can assure you it makes my hair stand on end to relate, but promises must be fulfilled. On 22nd about 7 AM a report came from Captain Barry, on outlying piquet, that ? armies of kafirs were advancing towards our camp. I was sent by Pulleine to inquire into the matter, and see how far they were extended; my report was to Pulleine that a dense mass of kafirs was gradually advancing and extending about 5 (Miles?) in beautiful open order. By the time I had reached the camp Durnford had arrived with about 300 mounted Basutos; shortly afterwards these men were put into action to support Barry and try to keep the left flank back; however they were driven back by degrees. Shortly afterwards dense masses of Zulus made their appearance on the ridges, so the guns were at once drawn into action and fired in (between?) the enemy, who made an opening in their column, though it closed up in ten seconds after the explosion. The rocket battery was (scattered?) about three miles from the camp, and only fired a couple of shots when it was (?) cut up. The Carbineers were attacking enemy on right front, but were driven back by degrees. They retired gradually towards the camp. By that time the 24th had opened fire on the Zulus at 700 yards, pouring volley after volley into the brutes; I can assure you it was more like a roar of thunder than firing, but to no avail – they seemed not to care, though many thousands were killed. It was one mad rush towards the camp and our noble warriors, and when the savages came within abut 50 yards of the gun it retired, and soon all in the camp ran for their lives.
Then the massacre began, something awful to relate. The brutes did not spare man or (livestock?) in their way. Poor man in holy dead before his stomach is ripped open (?). They followed to the Buffalo, altogether 4 or 5 miles and killing everyone they came across. Only 20 or 25 Europeans escaped.
About my escaping I will give you a short account. When the kafirs drove the 24th back I stood firing at them as fast as I could load. The last shot before I mounted my horse was about 30 yards from them. I then mounted and gave my horse the reins, but got only about 300 yards when it was shot under me. Some of Durnford’s men came past on horseback; I caught at the bridle and got firm hold of the reins, it checked the horse and sent the rider to the ground; the poor devil was too frightened to look to the horse but ran for it. I made one jump into the saddle and started again; we had to (?) over a kind of ruck or hollow, and a little lower down (??) my way through the brutes, how I got through that part I am not able to relate, and after riding (?) through them all safe, my horse was shot again. Fortunately one of the same lot I got the first horse from had a led horse which he gave to me. I can assure you it did not take me long in mounting; I pressed (?) further on my way but did not go very far when the other one was shot through the front leg, so I made a run for it, and after running a couple of hundred yards some more men came past me, and some led horses. So I levelled my gun at one and told him if he didn’t give me a horse I would blow out his brains. So I got mounted again and rode in company with about 150 of Col. Durnford’s men towards Rorke’s Drift. When my horse was knocked up and one of the same party kindly gave me another, so I arrived at this place in time to give them warning.
It was hard work for a couple of hours to rough up some kind of wall made of mealies, oats and biscuit boxes. We made some kind of wall, and made several loopholes in the two houses when the savages came down on us but we mowed them down. About dark they fired the house which was the hospital and killed several sick and (wounded?) men there. In all we numbered 80 men (?); our losses amounted next morning to 13 killed and a couple wounded – on the enemy’s side 475, which were buried.
At the camp 80 of 89 NNC officers and NCOs were killed, and 21 officers of the 24th, two colonels and all the band (save one bandsman) and all NCOs were killed. It is disgusting they lie unburied on the field. I am without a horse and have only one suit of clothes. If they do not let us go from here soon I shall have to go with a (?) bag as my dress; I believe they intend to keep us here. I don’t know how I shall stand it for I have nothing to cook in and have to borrow something to make a cup of tea or coffee. I can assure you that I am in a dilapidated state now, and as soon as the war is over I will never volunteer again.
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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Thu Mar 08, 2012 8:34 am

1879Graves
Thank you.
You'll forgive me but I am deeply cautious in these matters and this letter is too important to accept on a whim. You wrote that someone passed this to you and asked you to put it on the forum. This person must have been following the discussion - why didn't he post it himself? You also wrote that he copied it out by hand - why not simply photocopy/show you the original?
I shall want to check the letter in its original edition before commenting on it to make sure it is genuine and to get the correct wording. You must understand that I spent a couple of months of my life trawling through newspapers meticulously at Colindale extracting every report of Isandhlwana and I must have missed this. I know I'm not perfect and I could have missed it. But it's a largeish letter - a big thing to miss - and not only me but Lock and Quantrill missed it too for 'The Red Book'. I'm perfectly willing to accept that it is genuine but I have to check this for myself and will get back to you all when I've done it. [If someone else is closer to London and checks it first, do let me know by pm.]
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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:14 am

Thank you for the private messages regarding this 'account'. I shall investigate its origin and get back to you.
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