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 Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.

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Julian Whybra



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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:18 am

Much is often made of the claim that Cetshwayo had refused to allow the impi to eat up Natal and that therefore there was no danger after 22nd Jan. That is all very well for us to know, but they didn't know that then. It says much that Essex & co. were prepared to defend and die at Helpmekaar, Newcastle and Dundee in order to defend PMZ despite what they had just experienced at Isandhlwana.
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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:45 pm

Quote :
It says much that Essex & co. were prepared to defend and die at Helpmekaar.

Shame this didn't cross their minds at Isandlwana.
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Julian Whybra



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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:10 am

littlehand
That's a little cynical though I take it in good humour. It is interesting to note that there area number of references to escaping officers considering the possibilities for making a stand at various points and to ORs considering joining stands that they witnessed. None of them did - which is why they lived to tell the tale - deciding instead that the situation was hopeless and a case of sauve qui peut. Creating order out of chaos, panic, and an indefensible position is very difficult. It was easier to create it out of cosmos at RD, Helpmekaar, et al. At RD it paid off.
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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Thu Apr 19, 2012 1:42 pm

Can someone post Mabin's and Maxwell's refrence to Adenorff being at RD ?



Cheers


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impi

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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:19 pm

Why did I think it was Adendroff who brought the message of the diaster at Isandwana to RD.
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PostSubject: Lt Adendorff 1 / 3 NNC.   Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:28 pm

Hi Impi.
If you read the previous posts you will see why you thought that . In a nutshell , Chard states he met Adendorff at the river after they pulled him and a Carbineer across on the Pont. He states catargorically '' It was Adendorff who informed him of the disaster''
Chard then says he thought Adendorff was quite mad ! and didnt believe him until the Carbineer backed his story . This is all posted on this thread .
Cheers 90th. Salute
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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:58 pm

Was the letter published in England ?
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impi

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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:14 pm

It seems the first survivor to arrive at the drift was a soldier of the mounted infantry. His name was " Frederick Evans" and it was Sgt Mabin who first spoke to him and he was told the camp had been taken.

I could be reading ths wrong, but the way I read it Adenorff came in after.
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90th

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PostSubject: Lt Adendorff 1 / 3 NNC.   Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:05 am

Yes Impi , if you read the posts on the thread , by the time Chard and Adendorff got back to the camp at RD; Bromhead and Dalton ? had already began setting up the defences if I'm not mistaken . Evans I'm sure who was a member of the M.I. was the first to arrive at the camp proper . Happy to be corrected . Salute
cheers 90th. Salute
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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:30 am

Impi
90ths quite right ( is he ever wrong Shocked ) :lol:

Adendorff was the first at the Drift itself and crossed the river via the ponts. Evans ( ? ) arrived via Fugitives Drift so arrived directly at the mission station bypassing the ponts and so missing Chard.

regards
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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:42 am

All
It was not Frederick Evans - he was an H coy soldier who was already at RD probably as a hospital patient. The messenger was Pte. Edward Evans 2/3rd of the IMI.
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24th

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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Thu Apr 26, 2012 8:06 am

Quote :
All
It was not Frederick Evans - he was an H coy soldier who was already at RD probably as a hospital patient. The messenger was Pte. Edward Evans 2/3rd of the IMI.

So this was the chap that spoke to "Sgt Mabin"
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PostSubject: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:26 pm

Hi all.

In regard to Lt Adendorff either being at RD or not, I found this quote in Ian Knights book 'Zulu Rising'.

Ian is refering to the Zulus attacking the storehouse at RD with lighted torches during the night, trying to set fire to the roof, and the defenders inside the storehouse shooting at them. On page 594 he says this; quote;; "Lieutenant Adendorff of the NNC and Corporal Attwood of the Army Service Corps, both shot down men who ran too close in the attempt" end of quote.

So it would appear that Lt Adendorff was indeed at RD, but with being inside the storehouse, he would not have been seen by many of the other defenders, except of course those others in the storehouse. He had also not been with them for all that long, and they would not have known him all that well, this could be the reason why he was not mentioned much by his name, they just did not know him.

Martin. Salute
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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:44 am

Sense of humours lacking ??????
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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:01 am

Careful Gary Shocked



:lol:
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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:08 am

Yes , i appologise in advance , but it was hardly a major diversion - two comments inteded to be humorous . Not quite sure how that could offend someone ? Fairly sure 90th didnt complain !

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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:03 am

Guess you could say its not Cricket!!!!!
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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:26 am

Its strange how only two people saw him at RD during the battle, one being Chard and no one else. He wasn't even included in the roll call, don't think being a colonial made any difference to the roll call, it was needed to see who still remained alive. There was absolutely no mentioned of him after the Battle could he have slipped away when it was reported that Chelmsford's column was seen, for fear of someone knowing who his movements were at Isandlwana. Could they at first thought he had been killed at Isandlwana, and only when Chard mentions him does it come to light that he may well have deserted, was he given a order to do something take a message etc but rode away. Is it true that a warrant was issued for his arrest for desertion if so why? When others a escaped. The chap that delivered the first message to RD did he leave Isandlwana earlier. It does not make sense that adendroff was seen by many before the battle, seen by two during, and by none after. Mystery to say the less.


Last edited by impi on Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:59 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Lt Adendorff 1 / 3 NNC.   Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:36 am

Hi Impi.
Read all the posts on the Adendorff thread and your questions will be answered . Salute . He was seen by two people when the Column arrived , one being Harford and the other escapes me .
Cheers 90th. Salute
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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:33 am

[quote="impi"]Its strange how only two people saw him at RD during the battle, one being Chard and no one else. He was even included in the roll call, don't think being a colonial made any difference to the roll call, it was needed to see who still remained alive. There was absolutely no mentioned of him after the Battle could he have slipped away quote]

He was also seen during the battle by Fred Symons, (his memoirs refer ). After the battle he was seen by Harford, that was the 23rd.

After the war he was seen by Stafford and gave enough detail to satisfy him that he was there.

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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:39 pm

The only mention of his arrest is in Maxwell's notes, and even this is just hersay.

Impi

He is recorded on Chards roll.



Cheers
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impi

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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:07 pm

So why the big ? As to whether he was there or not.
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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:14 pm

I'm Not sure.

I did speak to Adrain Greaves about this and he firmly believes he deserted RD, but had no evidnce to this.
He believes Morris had the key to all this but died before he could tell anybody.

Face it, there is way to much evidece to say he wasn't there.



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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:23 pm

Morris was quizzed about his so called evidence but put enquiries of saying it was in a box in the attic. I think that excuse was used on David Jackson.

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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:45 pm

Stafford’s 1939 account in which details of their escape from Isandlwana was described related some details that Adendorff had recounted to him during a meeting. He wrote:

"I met Odendorff in 1883 and he told me that Rorke’s Drift was saved through two Godsends. The first was that the Zulus retired in the middle of the night, apparently to hold a little consultation and that gave the garrison time to strengthen the weak parts of the little fort, and the Martini Henry carbines time to cool off. The other was the Zulus setting fire to the thatch building which gave a bright light round the little fort and when the Zulus came volley after volley was poured into them. He also told me that Rev. W. Smith was a great help. You will always find that in a tight corner there is a hard case and that there was one at Rorke’s Drift. This man was cussing all the time. The Rev. Smith went up to him and said “Please, my good man stop that cussing. We may shortly have to answer for our sins”. The reply he got was “All right Mister, you do the praying and I will send the black B’s to Hell as fast as I can”.

"In addition to Stafford’s account, a member of Chelmsford’s force, Trooper Fred Symons of the Natal Carbineers confirms the presence of Adendorff at Rorke’s Drift on the morning of the 23rd"

"Lieutenant Charles Harford’s almanac also records that Adendorff was in fact present"
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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:50 am

Springbok
That's not right about Morris. He never made that excuse about Adendorff and the box in the attic with Jackson, and, as far as I know, not with anyone else. He did make it with me about Hamer's account though.
DB
Yes, well, the remark says more about the author than Adendorff.
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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:38 am

Hi Julian
My apologies, it wasnt referenced to David Jackson, but having checked, the excuse was used with a well known author that has verified the fact. I quote, " the proof was supposedly lodged away with his files ."

Regards
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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:14 pm

springbok
Which one? I'm interested to know. A pm will do.
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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:25 pm

pm sent.
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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:29 pm

DB
I strongly advise you not to pay too much attention to what Mr Greaves tells you. Very strongly!!!
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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Wed May 16, 2012 4:42 pm

90th

NNC weren't disbanded on the 23rd as Chelsmford was present thoughtout the 23rd and Gyln had to tell
him on the 24th that the Natives had gone, when he heard he tryed to get them back, clearly then they
weren't disbanded on the 23rd, he chelsmdford would have known !




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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Wed May 16, 2012 10:10 pm

There are very few that doubt he was at RD during the defence.the question what time did he leave Isandlwana and what route did he take. Did he desert from Isandwana.
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PostSubject: Lt Adendorff   Thu May 17, 2012 7:20 am

Hi DB.
I'm fairly certain I said that they WEREN'T disbanded on the 23rd , check what I quoted from Harford's Diary .
I think I posted that the NNC were let go and dawn on the 24th . The post is on this thread , somewhere .
I'm pressed for time at the moment .
Cheers 90th.
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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Thu May 17, 2012 5:27 pm

John

He left the same time as everyone else, took the same rout as everyone else, but when he got to the river he and a
carbineer as they couldn't swim crossed further upstream and took the news to RD.
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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:44 pm

Adendorff was born at Graaf Reinett, in the Eastern Cape, on 10 July 1848. His grandfather, Michiel Joseph Adendorff, was a German surgeon who had set sail from Europe for the Far East but, on arriving at the Cape, had disembarked to assist with an outbreak of fever, and had remained there. He had settled at Graaff Reinet where his son, also Michiel, was born in 1799. Michiel Jnr married a woman of French descent, Charlotte Rouverie, in 1829 and together they had thirteen children, of whom Gert Wilhelm was the tenth. During the 9th Frontier War (1877-78), an irregular unit, the Kaffrarian Rifles, was recruited among the German community on the Eastern Cape, and Gert Adendorff volunteered; he may also have served in the Diamond Fields Horse. In 1878, with hostilities imminent against the Zulus, Rupert Lonsdale was sent to the Cape to recruit whites from the recently disbanded local irregular units to serve as officers and NCOs in a new auxiliary force. Adendorff’s name appears on a list of men recruited for the Royal Swazi Levy – under the impression they were destined for Swaziland – who arrived in Natal on the steamer Nubian at the end of November 1878. In fact, they were needed for the recently authorised Natal Native Contingent, and Adendorff was given the rank of lieutenant in the 3rd Regiment, attached to the Centre Column.In 1882, he surfaces as a clerk working for the Gold Commission, and apparently living with other members of the Adendorff family who had settled the Newcastle region of northern Natal. He later moved to the Transvaal and married a widow, Hester Grobler, and was living in Pretoria, working as a government clerk, when the Anglo-Boer War broke out. The war split the Adendorff family, some fighting for the British and others for the Boers, although Gert Wilhelm seems to have remained in his civilian post and surrendered it when the British advanced to Pretoria. The war caused him financial loss, however, for after hostilities ended he appealed to the British authorities for compensation for a cart requisitioned by the Boers and two horses taken by British troops. Adendorff died about 1914. It is not unusual for the lives of individual colonial troops to remain obscure to history but Adendorff’s reputation has suffered unduly; he was in fact the only man on the British side to have fought at both Isandlwana and Rorke’s Drift.
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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Mon Jun 18, 2012 7:49 am

Interesting thing is theres a young chap playing for the Springboks in the under 20 world cup at present, his names Sean Adendorff.

Cheers
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PostSubject: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:09 pm

Hi springy.

Very interesting, I wonder if he is a descendant of Lt Adendorff scratch

If he is, then either he (or more likely his family), may have some written accounts, etc, stashed away that could be of great histoic value to the AZW community.

Cheers mate. Salute
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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Thu Sep 27, 2012 9:55 pm

Adendroff reported to Chard.

"Lieutenant Adendorff of Lonsdale's Regiment, Natal Native Contingent, asking if I was an officer, jumped off his horse, took me on one side, and told me that the camp was in the hands of the Zulus and the army destroyed."

Chard finds a note.
"I galloped up at once to the commissariat stores and found that a pencil note had been sent from the 3rd Column by Captain Allan Gardner to state that the enemy were advancing in force against our post."

Who ever brought the note from Gardner must have got there before "Adendroff" he was at the river when he spoke to Adendroff, but rode to RD stores to see the note. If you get my meaning.....
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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Fri Sep 28, 2012 5:41 pm

springbok9 wrote:
Interesting thing is theres a young chap playing for the Springboks in the under 20 world cup at present, his names Sean Adendorff.

Cheers

Been quite a few Springboks with German names. I am guessing many of the original settlers hailed from Germany, as well as Holland and other European countries.
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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Fri Sep 28, 2012 6:13 pm

Gardner’s own words

Many were killed, a few of us managed to escape by riding down the hill on the right, but many were shot riding along the narrow valley [Fugitives’ Trail] and more were drowned and shot in crossing the Buffalo River [Fugitives’ Drift]. When I saw all was lost, I sent an order by a Basutho [a trooper of the Natal Native Horse] to the officer on Rorke’s Drift telling him to fortify and hold the house. I also sent a similar order to Helpmekaar”.
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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:46 am

Regarding Adendorff .

I have only seen 2 UNQUESTIONABLE FACTS about ADENDORFF and that is ,he was seen by Higginson at Isandlwana and Chard and Bourne at RD.
When he left ,was he still there, the times etc etc are all hearsay.

The thing that is disturbing is that he has been called a coward on speculation ,which i believe is disgraceful . There is only one person who knows what Adendorff did and we know who that is. Maybe Essex ,Gardiner, Smith -Dorrien ,Curling or Cochrane know

I dont have an opinion one way or another because ,believe it or not ,i wasnt there.

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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:51 pm

After reading Springbok's views, and not many people know the ground better than he, 2 unquestionable facts are:

1. Higginson, Stephenson and Adendorff would certainly have been among the first, if not the very first officers to flee iSandlwana. they did not stay with their men.
2. Neither Higginson nor Stephenson stayed to help defend RD either. (Adendorff it seems, may have stayed).
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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:09 pm

Rayhun, excellent post. Refreshing to see a member posting with his own opinion. And not reliant on someone else. Salute
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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:49 pm

I would be more inclined to believe he had stayed, if there had been more sighting of him, the day after the Battle. Did he slip away on the 23rd before LC arrived.
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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:56 pm

[quote="tasker224"]

Tasker 224 says:

1. Higginson, Stephenson and Adendorff would certainly have been among the first, if not the very first officers to flee
iSandlwana. they did not stay with their men.


Lt STEPHENSON was not at Isandhlwana.

Cheers

YMON
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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:46 pm

Tasker

Higginson and Adenorff couldn't have "stayed with their men" as their men bolted the moment the Zulu's closed on the
camp.



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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Tue Dec 18, 2012 4:11 pm

Tasker. It look like your the one who should be reading up. Very Happy You need to study mo
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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:59 pm

Drummer Boy 14 wrote:
Tasker

Higginson and Adenorff couldn't have "stayed with their men" as their men bolted the moment the Zulu's closed on the
camp.



Cheers

No, but they deserted their picquet duty prior to iSandlwana apparently. (Beg your pardon, not Adendorff and Higginson, this was Avery and Holcroft).
Also, as officers, they should be leading their men, not following them.


Last edited by tasker224 on Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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tasker224

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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:05 pm

[quote="ymob"]
tasker224 wrote:


Tasker 224 says:

1. Higginson, Stephenson and Adendorff would certainly have been among the first, if not the very first officers to flee
iSandlwana. they did not stay with their men.


Lt STEPHENSON was not at Isandhlwana.

Cheers

YMON

Cheers, YMOB thanks for that. Salute Lt Stephenson fled RD of course.
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Drummer Boy 14

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PostSubject: Re: Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.   Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:08 pm

Tasker

What do you mean they deserted their picket duty ? Suspect

And there was no way they could have led there men off the field, they broke and ran
in evry direction.



Cheers
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