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 Battle of Rorkes Drift. British Injuries

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old historian2

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PostSubject: Battle of Rorkes Drift. British Injuries   Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:44 pm

I know a lot of the injuries inflicted on the British at Rorkes drift was caused by bullets. Where can I find information on the wounds inflicted on the British other than bullet wounds.

Surgeon Reynolds must have kept records relating to the men he treated, and the type of wounds they had.

Any Information welcome.



Not been to good lately. But i'm back now. :lol:
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PostSubject: Re: Battle of Rorkes Drift. British Injuries   Fri Apr 03, 2009 9:45 pm

Garret Hayden: Private D Company 2nd 24th Regiment.
Died in Hospital .His body presented two large cut to the Abdomen, and 16 spear wounds to other parts of his body. His left cheek had been separated from his mouth.


James Jenkins: Private B Company 2nd 24th Regiment.
Died in circumstances nobody could remember.

Robert Jones: Private B Company 2nd 24th Regiment .
Three Vertical assegai wounds to abdomen two right side and one to the left (Medical report stated that the latter might have been from a firearm.

Alfred Henry Hook: Private B Company 24th Regiment.
Slight wound by spear to front region of scalp.

John Scanlon: : Private A Company 2nd 24th Regiment.
It remains unknown to this day, whether he died from a bullet or an assegai.

James Chick: Private D Company 24th Regiment..
Cause of death unknown, he was one of the patients in the hospital who left before the combat started to assist with the exterior defence and perimeter.

John Smith: B Company 24th Regiment.
Slightly wounded by an assegai in the abdomen.

Joseph Williams: Private B Company 24th Regiment.
His body was dragged outside after he had killed 14 Zulu. They took revenge on him, mutilating him probably while he was still alive.

Umlunga: Native of the N.N.C. Died in hospital from several assegai wounds.

Robert Maxfield: Sergeant B Company 2nd 24th Regiment .Speared to death in his hospital bed.

William Horrigan: Private 1st Battalion 24th Regiment. Killed in one of the side rooms of the hospital while defending his sick comrades with his own weapon.

Sidney Hunter: Private Natal Mounted Police.
Deep assegai wound to upper back , some belief it was kidney level.

William Becket: Private 1st Battalion 24th Regiment.
Fatally wounded in abdomen while fleeing from the hospital at the front. Died morning 23rd Jan

Regards

Pete

Source: Various
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PostSubject: Re: Battle of Rorkes Drift. British Injuries   Fri Apr 03, 2009 11:39 pm

Pete.

After viewing your post, I take it the rest were either wounded or killed by gunshot.

I wonder if any were killed (Friendly Fire) ???

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PostSubject: Re: Battle of Rorkes Drift. British Injuries   Fri Apr 03, 2009 11:48 pm

sas1

The only one that was listed is:

William Anderson: Cororal 3rd Regiment N.N.C Killed by a British Fire. The bullet hit him in the back of the neck, as he fled.

Regards

Pete
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PostSubject: Re: Battle of Rorkes Drift. British Injuries   Fri Apr 03, 2009 11:51 pm

Deserted in the face of the enemy, was this before the battle, or during.

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PostSubject: Re: Battle of Rorkes Drift. British Injuries   Sat Apr 04, 2009 11:33 am

One of the mounted natives under Vause reported that the Zulus were about a minute away. At this point, the natives broke. Having already seen the slaughter at Isandlwana, they - and Vause - deserted. Upon seeing their comrades flee, Stephenson's NNC contingent leapt as one over the barricades and followed. Outraged that Stephenson and his European NCOs were following their charges, a few British soldiers fired after them, killing Corporal Bill Anderson.


S.D
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PostSubject: Re: Battle of Rorkes Drift. British Injuries   Sat Apr 04, 2009 11:33 pm

Pete in your post I found these two individuals, bit puzzled.

James Jenkins: Private B Company 2nd 24th Regiment.
Died in circumstances nobody could remember.

Surely someone must have seen what happen , weren’t there any injuries found. Or did nobody what to remember how he died.

John Scanlon: : Private A Company 2nd 24th Regiment.
It remains unknown to this day, whether he died from a bullet or an assegai.

Surgeon Reynolds must have been knowledgeable enough to tell the difference. between a Spear and a Bullet wound .
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PostSubject: Re: Battle of Rorkes Drift. British Injuries   Sun Apr 05, 2009 10:57 am

Good point 24th . It is possible however that James Jenkins died of natural causes (Heart Attack ) It could be that the physical strain was two much for him, I will see if I can find any other evidence of what might have occur.

John Scanlon again its says “It remains unknown to this day, whether he died from a bullet or an assegai”
His wounds might have consistent of both assegai and bullet, therefore impossible to tell which had caused death.


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PostSubject: Gunshot wounds   Fri Jul 05, 2013 9:50 pm

What was the main cause of casualties among the defenders of Rorke's Drift? Zulu War - Rorke's Drift


Gunshot wounds. According to former Colour Sergeant Frank Bourne (last surviving defender of Rorke's Drift) on a radio broadcast in 1936, the Zulus used captured rifles from Isandlhwana. He stated that, "this was the cause of every one of the British casualties" and that, "there was hardly a man even wounded by an assegais". Historians believe this is unlikely as the Zulus attacking Rorke's Drift had formed the reserve at Isandhlwana and did not take part in the battle. However, the Zulus had many thousands of firearms obtained from European traders and it was probably these that were the main cause of casualties among the defenders.

Cheers

PTR
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PostSubject: Re: Battle of Rorkes Drift. British Injuries   Fri Jul 05, 2013 10:11 pm

Some Zulus had MH rifles, possibly pickup on the way to RD, but I doubt they had many rounds, their main fire arm was the Brown Bess old muskets which proved quite deadly to some of the defenders. Most deaths and wounds were caused by gun fire.
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PostSubject: Gunshot wounds    Sat Jul 06, 2013 12:54 am

I've posted tha statistics from those Killed and wounded at R.D , its on here but not sure where . Salute 
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PostSubject: Re: Battle of Rorkes Drift. British Injuries   Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:31 am

Remains to be seen, or they could retrieve MH between Isandhlwana and RD?

MH does not belong to the 24 th ?

But after the cartridges recovered by the surgeon, they should have known what types of guns, they came ...

The Colour Sergeant Frank Bourne was to recognize detonations MH, he could make mistakes ...

Cheers

PTR
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PostSubject: Gunshot wounds    Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:45 am

Rascal if you use the search box , type in Colour sgt bourne and it may come up , this has all been dicussed previously .
Bourne's interview was some 50 yrs after the battle !
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PostSubject: Re: Battle of Rorkes Drift. British Injuries   Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:04 am

Marsupial thank you, I often do how else to talk about certain topics, too sharp for me? This forum is a veritable encyclopedia of the war Very Happy !

Now tell me a little about what has not been discussed more or less, since the opening of this forum Very Happy ?

Cheers

PTR
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PostSubject: Gunshot wounds    Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:12 am

Rascal you dont need me to tell you what's been discussed or hasnt been , if you have a question use the search box first ,
no body has the time to look and post things that have already been posted . It would be a lot easier if you searched first .
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PostSubject: Re: Battle of Rorkes Drift. British Injuries   Sat Jul 06, 2013 11:32 am

I think Bourne is mistaken, I believe that all gunshot wounds to RD were by Enfield rifles Very Happy 
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PostSubject: Re: Battle of Rorkes Drift. British Injuries   Sun Jul 07, 2013 9:10 pm

PTR,

The Enfield Rifle used conical shaped Minié ball. The muzzle-loading rifle bullet was named after its co-developer, Captain, later Colonel, Claude-Étienne Minié.

Given some of the wounds sustained, and the use of the phrase 'ball' by at least two of the surgeons who operated on the wounded it might well add some credence to your suggestion.

The well known photograph of Prince Dabulamanzi kaMpande shows two of the group in possession of Enfield Rifles.

'Jimu
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PostSubject: Re: Battle of Rorkes Drift. British Injuries   Sun Jul 07, 2013 10:21 pm

I know this is to do with RD. But thought this would be of interest!!

Sergeant R Smith - 1st Kings Dragoon Guards

"Two troops of us were at Rorkes Drift where we arrived on Whitsunday as we had to march on Sundays as well as other days, but when in Camp on Sundays we had service as usual in the open air. During our stay in Rorkes Drift we had some very hard days, for our duty there was to keep up communication with Troops marching to Ulundi and had some days to march from 15 to 20 miles out until we could see them. It happened one night that we went to the column which was under General Newdigate and at the time we arrived they were busy shelling a bush which was infested with the enemy, about a mile from their camp but it came on dark, and then retired to camp expecting them to make an attack on us that night but they would not stand our shells this time, and away they went. There was only one casualty on our side and that was the Adjutant of the 17th Lancers killed besides a few narrow escapes from pot legs which they crammed down their blunderbusses, anything they could get down the gun they put in it."
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PostSubject: Re: Battle of Rorkes Drift. British Injuries   Mon Jul 08, 2013 7:02 am

Yes 24 thThe zulus used what they could as ammunition for their muskets and they have also used MH powder cartridges for their muskets ! What a waste!
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PostSubject: Re: Battle of Rorkes Drift. British Injuries   Mon Jul 08, 2013 7:15 am

Yes Jim, I read somewhere, that all the gunshot wounds to RD were by Enfield rifles ...

Dabulamanzi had standardized guns or those of his clan ! Or as he was intelligent, he has sent to the feet of the Oskarberg than those who had firearms with rifled barrels as "snipers ".

Those with muskets with unrifled barrels, participating in regular assaults ...

Bourne is mistaken!

It can not even be trusted to live witnesses!

Cheers

Pascal the Wink 
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PostSubject: Re: Battle of Rorkes Drift. British Injuries   Mon Jul 08, 2013 7:33 am

From someone who knows after this case, , the main cause of casualties among the defenders of Rorke's Drift were Head shots
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PostSubject: Re: Battle of Rorkes Drift. British Injuries   Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:39 am

Admin wrote:
Garret Hayden: Private D Company 2nd 24th  Regiment.
Died in Hospital .His body presented two large cut to the Abdomen, and 16 spear wounds to other parts of his body. His left cheek had been separated from his mouth.


James Jenkins: Private B Company 2nd 24th  Regiment.
Died in circumstances nobody could remember.


Robert Jones: Private B Company 2nd 24th  Regiment .
Three Vertical assegai wounds to abdomen two right side and one to the left (Medical report stated that the latter might have been from a firearm.

Alfred Henry Hook: Private B Company 24th  Regiment.
Slight wound by spear to front region of scalp.

John Scanlon: : Private A Company 2nd 24th  Regiment.
It remains unknown to this day, whether he died from a bullet or an assegai.

James Chick: Private D Company  24th  Regiment..
Cause of death unknown, he was one of the patients in the hospital who left before the combat started to assist with the exterior defence and perimeter.

John Smith: B Company 24th  Regiment.
Slightly wounded by an assegai in the abdomen.

Joseph Williams: Private B Company 24th  Regiment.
His body was dragged outside after he had killed 14 Zulu. They took revenge on him, mutilating him probably while he was still alive.

Umlunga: Native of the N.N.C. Died in hospital from several assegai wounds.

Robert Maxfield: Sergeant B Company 2nd 24th  Regiment .Speared to death in his hospital bed.

William Horrigan: Private 1st Battalion 24th  Regiment. Killed in one of the side rooms of the hospital while defending his sick comrades with his own weapon.

Sidney Hunter: Private Natal Mounted Police.
Deep assegai wound to upper back , some belief it was kidney level.

William Becket: Private 1st Battalion 24th  Regiment.
Fatally wounded in abdomen while fleeing from the hospital at the front. Died morning 23rd Jan

Regards

Pete

Source: Various

Admin highlighted above, can you remember the source of this information.
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PostSubject: Battle of R.D. British Casualties    Mon Jul 08, 2013 1:27 pm

I'm sure I've posted the details of the RD Casualties , in regards to their wounds and deaths etc . I think Jimu or possibly Julian has also posted this information previously as well .
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PostSubject: Re: Battle of Rorkes Drift. British Injuries   Mon Jul 08, 2013 1:31 pm

James Jenkins: Private B Company 2nd 24th  Regiment.
Died in circumstances nobody could remember.

Wonder if this is primary source?
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PostSubject: Re: Battle of Rorkes Drift. British Injuries   Mon Jul 08, 2013 1:38 pm

And as usual, I bet there will be several variants Very Happy 
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PostSubject: Re: Battle of Rorkes Drift. British Injuries   Mon Jul 08, 2013 1:40 pm

If it was primary, it would certainly open a few doors, (ie) his actual where about's and how he was killed
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PostSubject: Re: Battle of Rorkes Drift. British Injuries   Mon Jul 08, 2013 1:48 pm

There will inevitably historians, who are not in agreement on this issue as on any other Very Happy 
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PostSubject: Battle Of RD . British Casualties    Mon Jul 08, 2013 1:49 pm

Chard the accepted view is and it's been stated many times J.Jenkins was killed in the hospital .
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PostSubject: Re: Battle of Rorkes Drift. British Injuries   Mon Jul 08, 2013 1:59 pm

Yes this is true !
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PostSubject: Re: Battle of Rorkes Drift. British Injuries   Mon Jul 08, 2013 4:13 pm

All

Could I refer you to "The Rorke's Drift Doctor" by Lee Stevenson (pub 2001).

Jenkins (J) is mentioned in Surgeon Reynold's official report and also in Gunner Evan's letter to the Free Press of Monmouthshire (1913) -
".... I was then standing in the doorway of the hospital, and I witnessed five Zulus come in front of the doorway jumping in their mad frenzy .... Just at this moment my newest mates were Adams and Jenkins, of the 24th Regt. What became of these men I can't say, I never saw them after..."

Reynold's account has three men discovered in the burnt out hospital building presumably Sgt Maxfield, Ptes Jenkins (J) and Adams.

Jenkins (J) is listed on the memorial in the military cemetery at RD.

Bill
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PostSubject: Re: Battle of Rorkes Drift. British Injuries   Mon Jul 08, 2013 6:22 pm

Pascal. Your post was unreadable. Re-submitt in a different format. 

 
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PostSubject: Re: Battle of Rorkes Drift. British Injuries   Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:29 pm

Like most of his post Wink Joker 
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PostSubject: Re: Battle of Rorkes Drift. British Injuries   Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:24 pm

This was to help impi to see things better!
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