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 RN Engineering Officer, Help needed

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1879graves

1879graves

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PostSubject: RN Engineering Officer, Help needed   RN Engineering Officer, Help needed EmptyThu Aug 05, 2010 9:47 pm

Hi All

This was posted on a medal forum and can anyone help identify him? and is that a Zulu War medal?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Here is a picture of an RN Engineering Officer and his medals.
Any idea as to which of HM Ships he would have served on?
2nd China Clasps are: Taku Forts 1858, and, Canton 1857
We know one was HMS Himalaya.


Last edited by 1879graves on Fri Aug 06, 2010 7:18 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: RN Engineering Officer, Help needed   RN Engineering Officer, Help needed EmptyThu Aug 05, 2010 11:05 pm

1879graves,

I am assuming we know he served on HMS Himalaya because the ship's name is engraved on the medal.

The Engineering Officers on HMS Himalaya listed on the Medal Roll are:

Engineer Douglas Owens
Engineer Thomas Scarrott Grice, Age: 42 in 1879
Chief Engineer John Mather, Age 46 in 1879
Engineer Samuel John Robins, Age 28 in 1879
Assistant Engineer George M. Trivess

My money is on either Grice or Mather. They are both old enough to have earned medals in 1857 & 58.

I will dig deeeper, but I hope this gives you somewhere to start.

Petty Officer Tom
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90th

90th

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PostSubject: RN. Engineering officer ,Help needed.   RN Engineering Officer, Help needed EmptyFri Aug 06, 2010 4:02 am

hi 1879graves.
It certainly looks like a zulu war medal and as you may be aware all medals awarded to H.M.S. Himalaya were unclasped .
cheers 90th.
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littlehand

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PostSubject: Re: RN Engineering Officer, Help needed   RN Engineering Officer, Help needed EmptyFri Aug 06, 2010 7:58 pm

Graves. Could you post a link to where the photo came from. (If Possible)
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1879graves

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PostSubject: Re: RN Engineering Officer, Help needed   RN Engineering Officer, Help needed EmptyFri Aug 06, 2010 8:09 pm

Hi Petty Officer Tom

Many thanks for the information, it is a start and I will start researching your list.

Hi 90th

Many thanks for the information aswell

Hi littlehand

As requested the link
http://www.britishmedalforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5798&start=870
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littlehand

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PostSubject: Re: RN Engineering Officer, Help needed   RN Engineering Officer, Help needed EmptyFri Aug 06, 2010 9:38 pm

:lol!: :lol!: :lol!: I'm not a member aaarrrrrrrr!!!! You knew that Grave's :lol!: scratch
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1879graves

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PostSubject: Re: RN Engineering Officer, Help needed   RN Engineering Officer, Help needed EmptyFri Aug 06, 2010 11:57 pm

:lol!: Hi littlehand, that did make me laugh :lol!:

Membership is free mate, so sign up and you can view the forum Idea
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littlehand

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PostSubject: Re: RN Engineering Officer, Help needed   RN Engineering Officer, Help needed EmptySun Aug 08, 2010 9:02 pm

Graves sorry mate. I have spent loads of hours looking for this chap. looking at Naval Officer’s who was awarded those various campaign medals. Have you had any luck? Mr Greaves dropped me a PM., as he is a member of the medal forum. He had a look but could not find this gentleman among all the posts. I will look again at a later date.
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joe

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PostSubject: Re: RN Engineering Officer, Help needed   RN Engineering Officer, Help needed EmptySun Aug 08, 2010 9:34 pm

Hello, couldnt find anything either,

sorry to change the subject here,
1879graves, what is that on your new profile picture, who is the model of???

thanks joe
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PostSubject: Re: RN Engineering Officer, Help needed   RN Engineering Officer, Help needed EmptySun Aug 08, 2010 10:04 pm

1879graves,

If British Campaign Medals are worn in order of being awarded, that is not Zulu War medal (1877-79). I think it is a South African Medal (1853); the second medal is the Baltic Medal (1854-55) and the third is the China Medal (1857).

If this is correct then the first medal was not issued to the Himalaya. She was launched in 1853 and went into service in 1854. This would also mean that the Engineer has no contact with the Zulu War.

I'm still searching for which campaign the Himalaya was involved. Maybe I can come up with his name.

Petty Officer Tom

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littlehand

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PostSubject: Re: RN Engineering Officer, Help needed   RN Engineering Officer, Help needed EmptySun Aug 08, 2010 10:15 pm

Medal posted by Graves.
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South African Medal (1853)

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[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

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littlehand

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PostSubject: Re: RN Engineering Officer, Help needed   RN Engineering Officer, Help needed EmptySun Aug 08, 2010 10:24 pm

Himalaya was a 4,690-ton iron screw troopship)

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HMS Himalaya was ordered by the Peninsular and Oriental Steam Navigation Company as SS Himalaya. She was purchased by the Royal Navy in 1854 and served with them until 1920. She was sunk in 1940.
The SS Himalaya was a 3,438 gross register ton iron steam screw passenger ship. When launched she was the largest ship in the P & O fleet and was not exceeded in size until the SS Australia of 1870.
Himalaya had been planned as a paddle steamer but that design was becoming outdated and she was altered to screw propulsion while she was still on the stocks, and she was fitted instead with a single two-bladed propeller of 18 feet diameter. She was also fitted with sails on three masts for use when the wind was favourable. She was laid down at the yards of C. J. Mare & Co., Leamouth, London in 1852 and launched on 24 May 1853. She could carry 200 first class passengers and required a crew of 213.

She proved to be a larger vessel than the passenger traffic demanded and coal was becoming more expensive with the advent of war in the Crimea in 1854, so P&O were happy to sell her to the British Government at her cost price of £130,000 in July 1854 for use as a troopship. The Royal Navy had built smaller vessels, so called frigates, during the 1840s, such as HMS Simoom, which had served as troopships when the idea of iron warships was discredited by live-firing trials. Himalaya was purchased during the Crimean War when there was a pressing need for troopships. The purchase was viewed with suspicion by naval experts. General Howard Douglas is reported to have predicted that she would have a short career.

She served as a troopship for almost four decades, supporting operations during the Second Opium War, and carrying troops to India, South Africa, and North America. She was retired from trooping service in 1894 and became a coal hulk at Portland Harbour with the new name C60 in December 1895. She was sold out of the navy on 28 September 1920 to a private owner, E. W. Payne, and continued to be based in Portland Harbour, probably still as a coal hulk.
She continued in this role until the Second World War. She was sunk by air attack, by Junkers 87 dive bombers of the German Air Force, on 12 June 1940.


P.S.
Departed UK 29 July 1863, departed Ceylon 9 October 1863, arrived Melbourne 2 November, departed 7 November, arrived Auckland 14 November 1863, ship details - iron screw steam troop ship, 375 ft in length, 44 ft width, 3570 tons; notes - transported 2 Battalion 25th Regt. from UK to Ceylon, transported a battery of six 12 pounder Armstrong guns provided by the Victorian Government from Melbourne; source DNZ, DSC; passengers - 50th - 37 officers, 4 wives, 5 children, 793 rank and file, 57 wives, 87 children; 65th - 1 officer.

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1879graves

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PostSubject: Re: RN Engineering Officer, Help needed   RN Engineering Officer, Help needed EmptyMon Aug 09, 2010 7:29 pm

Hi All

Many thanks for all looking into this for me Idea

I have been taking a closer look at the Black & White photo and I think he is wearing the medals in this order if you go from left to right, The Baltic Medal 1854-1855 - The Second China War Medal (Taku Forts 1858 & Canton 1857) - Zulu War Medal 1879.

I am not saying this man only served on the "HMS Himalaya", he must of served on other ships to get the other medals. The poster stated that he knows one of the ships was the "HMS Himalaya" which must be the Zulu War medal. In the Colour photo of the medals, he must have put them in the incorrect order?

The question I ask now is did the HMS Himalaya take part in the Second China War or The Baltic? if not, then it must be a Zulu War Medal?

Many thanks all for the information you have provided so far. Plenty for me to get my teeth into.

Hi Joe
The profile picture is a model called "Officer of Natal Carbineers"
I do not know much about it, just found it online and liked it
Idea
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sas1

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PostSubject: Re: RN Engineering Officer, Help needed   RN Engineering Officer, Help needed EmptyMon Aug 09, 2010 11:08 pm

Lieutenant Charles James Carey.

1879Graves. Could this be you man. http://www.careyroots.com/medals.html

Sorry mate i don't have a lot of time to go surfing. But hope it helps. Idea

sas1
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1879graves

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PostSubject: Re: RN Engineering Officer, Help needed   RN Engineering Officer, Help needed EmptySun Aug 15, 2010 1:26 pm

Hi sas1

Many thanks for having a look for me, I can see where are coming from, but I do not believe that Lieutenant Charles James Carey took part in the Zulu War.

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Lieutenant Charles James Carey

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HMS Himalaya Engineer
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1879graves

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PostSubject: Re: RN Engineering Officer, Help needed   RN Engineering Officer, Help needed EmptySun Aug 15, 2010 4:59 pm

Hi All

Just a quick update

I have found out the following

The Baltic Medal 1854-1855 - Naming : Issued unnamed apart from the medals to the Royal Engineers which were impressed in roman capitals. Many recipients of unnamed medals had their medals privately engraved (and hence turn up in various contemporary engraved styles similar to the Crimea War medals.)

The Second China War Medal - Naming : Medals to the Royal Navy and Marines were issued unnamed.

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