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 Where are these locations.

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Mr Greaves

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PostSubject: Where are these locations.    Thu Jun 23, 2011 8:03 pm

As you know I slowly reading through " In Zululand with the British Army"

Norris-Newman mentions the following places. Hopefully one of our South African member can tell us where they are.

1) Burrup's
2) Seven Oaks
3) Cremer's ( A well known Hotel )
4) Fort Pine
5) Sunday River
6) Vultures Nest. ( Natal Hussars were established here)
7) Pots Spruit
8) Sand Spruit
9) Purcell's

And any information on Brevet- Major Much 1-24th and Civil Suregon Hartley. Both invalided home before the British invasion.
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90th

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PostSubject: William Thomas Much Brevet Major.   Fri Jun 24, 2011 2:36 am

Hi MrGreaves .
The following from ' The Noble 24th ' by Norman Holme .
Much. William Thomas , Brvt - Major ; Born 9 / 9 / 43 at St. Helier , Jersey , Channel Islands . Ensign 11 /2 /62 ; Lt 14 / 3 / 65;
Capt 14 / 11 /74; Brvt - Major 1 / 7 / 81 ; Lt Col Retired 28 / 11 / 85 . Married 22 /12 / 74 , Miss Daisy Helena Davies at Lianarthney
Carmarthen , and had issue ; William John Kenneth born 10 / 9 / 77 at King William's Town ; Frank Llewellyn, born 17 / 1 / 81 at
Brecon .Commanded detachment of the 24th foot , Indian Naval Bgde and Madras sappers & miners at Little Andaman Island 6-8 / 5 /67, including the engagement on 7 / 5 / 67 . Thanked by C- in - C India and commended by the Govt of India . Commandant , East London , Cape Of Good Hope 4 / 1 / 78 - 31 / 5 / 78 . Adjutant , 3rd Btn Royal South Wales Borderers Militia 4 / 9 / 80 . Served in Sth Africa 5 /1 / 75 - 2 / 3 /79 , including the Kaffiir War 1877-78 , and the Ciskei , Sth Africa Medal 1877-78 .

These from ' The Road To Isandlwana ' by Philip Gon .

When Much Retired in 1885 he was on Half Pay . Much was in Command of E Co 1/ 24th but as he was ill ,the command of this Co
was handed over to Lt. Cavaye , but there is much conjecture regarding this point . Helpmekaar , It was not long before the dispiriting
weather began to take its toll . Constant exertion in wet clothes and unseasonably cold nights brought on chills that progressed to
Pneumonia ; chafed feet in soggy boots developed infected sores that refused to heal ; and the rudimentary sanitary arrangements
introduced Dysentry in the camp . One of the casualties was Bvt - Major Much , who had to be sent , protesting ,to Pietermaritzburg to
Convalesce .

Page 148 .
'At the same time a number of disturbing incidents occurred in the East London District . The Offensive in the Kei and Tyityaba valley's had scattered the Xhosa army , but small groups of marauders had begun to operate as far west as the Gonubie River . Cap
William Much , in command at Ft Glamorgan was being inundated with complaints about stock theft and raids on Isolated farms. His undermanned infantry garrison was helpless against raiders who struck swiftly and melted away into the bush , and he was forced torely on hesitant volunteers to patrol the district .

Cheers 90th

Idea
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Mr Greaves

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PostSubject: Re: Where are these locations.    Thu Jun 30, 2011 11:08 pm

Gent's. I'm finding more places that we have never discussed. I have been trying my best to locate some of them with no joy.

Would the army have had a map showing these places, I will post a few more place names tomorrow. But any help would be appreciated.
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John

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PostSubject: Re: Where are these locations.    Thu Jun 30, 2011 11:22 pm

There's a mention of Sunday River in this link.
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John

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PostSubject: Re: Where are these locations.    Thu Jun 30, 2011 11:30 pm

Source: Memories of Forty-Eight Years Service. Smith-Dorrent.

My charge extended from Greytown to Helpmakaar, about 100 miles, but the important part of it was the thorn country from Burrup's Store to Sandspruit, about 50 miles. This included the passage of the Mooi and Tugela Rivers and several dangerous " spruits." There were certain rules which had to be observed when actually in the thorn country. On no account should cattle be allowed to graze, for redwater (a fatal disease) would almost surely result. To avoid this, forage should be carried on the wagons, so that, on outspanning at a camp, bullocks could be tied to the poles and fed instead of being loosed to graze. Should a wagon get stuck in a dry spruit, no matter how improbable rain might appear to be, it must be got out at all cost and not left there the night. Each wagon was drawn by sixteen oxen; convoys consisted of any number, but were usually of about twenty, and were mostly in charge of an officer senior to myself, and my difficulty was to get these orders carried out. One Cavalry Captain scorned my instructions and broke both of the above rules, and lost three quarters of his cattle from redwater and the wagon loaded with all the stores for the C.-in-C.'s mess, and then called on me to help him out."
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90th

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PostSubject: Where are these locations .   Fri Jul 01, 2011 3:49 am

Hi MrGreaves .
It certainly is difficult trying to come to terms of ' Where's Where ' in the layout of zulu land . David Rattray's book ' Guidebook
to the Anglo- Zulu War Battlefields shows some basic maps .
' Field Guide to the war in zululand and the defence of Natal ' by Laband & Thompson also has some maps but mainly shows you the blueprints of the forts etc and where they were located . I've yet to see a well detailed map of all the places mentioned during the war.
I did see a map from the intelligence dept was sold on ebay a while back for something like 600 Pd , it could have possibly been more as it was said to be an original and it was quite big !. Now there is something that would be rather well received , a well detailed
map of all those places mentioned in the books ! .
cheers 90th .

Ps. I'm sure the S.African connection will help us all out with where the lesser known places are in the scheme of things .
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24th

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PostSubject: Re: Where are these locations.    Mon Jul 04, 2011 7:04 am

Mr G. Are there no maps in the book your reading. Just thought I would ask just incase you haven't checked.
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dlancast

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PostSubject: Re: Where are these locations.    Tue Jul 05, 2011 3:04 am

There are some very good contemporary maps in the "Narrative of The Field Operations Connected With the Zulu War of 1879" published by the Naval & Military Press Ltd. The problem is that in order to get them into the book, they are sectioned off, split up and printed very small. Many of the places mentioned above are shown and if someone knows where they could be obtained in a whole condition, they would be very helpful.
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Brett Hendey

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PostSubject: Re: Where are these locations.    Tue Jul 05, 2011 1:26 pm

Seven Oaks is a small village on the main road and railway line between Pietermaritzburg and Greytown.

Fort Pine is 20 km south-east of Dundee. It was built in 1878 as a base for the Natal Mounted Police but, after its completion, it became the headquarters for the Buffalo Border Guard, the volunteer regiment of the Dundee district. After the Battle of Isandwana, both the Buffalo Border Guard and the Newcastle Mounted Rifles were garrisoned there, and it also became the centre for refugees in that part of the Zululand border. It lost strategic significance after the second invasion of Zululand was launched.

Brett
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Dave

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PostSubject: Re: Where are these locations.    Tue Jul 05, 2011 2:35 pm

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Dave

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PostSubject: Re: Where are these locations.    Tue Jul 05, 2011 2:38 pm

Sunday's River.

Situated less than an hour from Port Elizabeth, the tranquil and evergreen Sunday's River Valley in the Eastern Cape Province of South Africa is an important citrus growing area with seemingly endless stretches of lush citrus orchards, scenting the air with their blossoms and becoming heavy and colorful with fruit in the winter. The Sir Percy Fitzpatrick lookout point at Sunland and the Kirkwood lookout point both provide stunning views across the Sunday's River Valley and should be included in your scenic drive of this beautiful area.

The Sunday's River Valley is renowned for its game and nature reserves, being home to the Addo Elephant National Park and other smaller reserves. The prolific bird life includes fish eagles, osprey, African spotted eagle owl, jackass penguins and oystercatchers to name but a few. A number of private bush camps along the banks of the Sunday's River, as well as hunting lodges and holiday farms offer game viewing, fishing, canoeing, bird watching, hiking, boating, horse riding and 4x4 adventures in the valley and the Zuurberg Mountains. The 9-hole Kirkwood Golf Course offers golfing in a picturesque setting and in the winter months the Addo Polo Club offers heart-stopping excitement at weekend tournaments.

Several historic sites are included in the attractions of the Sunday’s River Valley, some dating back to 1829, such as the Old Drift House and its accompanying graveyard, filled with the bodies of soldiers who died in conflicts of days long past. The now peaceful valley, along with the Sunday's River, winds its way down to the Indian Ocean, cutting its way through the breath-taking Alexandria sand dunes, the highest this side of the Namib Desert. Certainly, the Eastern Cape’s Sunday's River Valley is a feast for the senses and an excellent holiday destination.
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Dave

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PostSubject: Re: Where are these locations.    Tue Jul 05, 2011 2:40 pm

Potspruit

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Dave

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PostSubject: Re: Where are these locations.    Tue Jul 05, 2011 2:41 pm

Sandspruit

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Dave

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PostSubject: Re: Where are these locations.    Tue Jul 05, 2011 2:42 pm

Sevenoaks
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old historian2

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PostSubject: Re: Where are these locations.    Tue Jul 05, 2011 4:36 pm

Thanks Dave. Idea
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Brett Hendey

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PostSubject: Re: Where are these locations.    Wed Jul 06, 2011 6:25 am

There is also a Sunday's River in the Wasbank district between Ladysmith and Dundee. This one is more likely to have a Zulu War link than the one in the Eastern Cape.

Brett
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Mr Greaves

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PostSubject: Re: Where are these locations.    Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:11 pm

Couple of more someone may know hopefully.

1)ZUINGUIN.
2)IBABANANGO.
3) MAGNIBONIUM.
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Brett Hendey

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PostSubject: Re: Where are these locations.    Sun Jul 10, 2011 8:08 am

Zuinguin is a few miles north of Vryheid. There is, or was a coal mine of that name.

Babanango is a village in Zululand between Eshowe and Dundee. It is a stopping-off place for visitors to Isandlwana and Rorke's Drift and has, or had a well patronised hotel and bar. Nearby is the Babanango Valley Lodge that is, or was patronised by battlefield visitors.

Brett
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Mr Greaves

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PostSubject: Re: Where are these locations.    Sun Jul 10, 2011 10:59 am

Brett. Your help is appreciated.
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PostSubject: Re: Where are these locations.    Sun Jul 10, 2011 5:49 pm

Hi Mr. Greaves,
Sand Spruit is very often used as a general term for a dry river, during winter. There are thus quite a number of such water courses in South Africa. We also read of a Sand Spruit near the Entombe Battlefield closer to Lüneburg, where four of the escapies of the battle were later killed, having tried to take a shorter route than Sergeant Booth and his group. This spruit (stream) is often dry in winter and in summer has water and forms a marsh . in Zulu we know this spruit as "Dakane" meaning mud or muddy!
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dlancast

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PostSubject: Re: Where are these locations.    Mon Jul 11, 2011 3:02 am

There is a Sand Spruit Store shown on one of the maps included in The Narrative of the Field Operations Connected with the Zulu War of 1879, which is titled, Sketch Map Showing Lines of Communication With Zululand and Transvaal. It is about 15 miles Southeast of Helpmakaar, near Ft Bengough, very near the confluence of the Mangeni and Buffalo rivers. I have been in the area a couple of times - very hilly with remote umuzis among the hills, with trails, more than roads inbetween. It is probably much like it was back then.
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90th

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PostSubject: Where are these locations .   Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:49 am

Hi MrG.
This from '' A Civil Surgeon Serving With The British Army In The Angl Zulu War '' Diary Of Lewis .W.Reynolds.

24th June . Marched 8 miles & encamped near Magnibonium in sight of S.Philip & St. James Mission Station .

26th June . Marched 8 miles , over Maginbonium ( Emtonjaneni ), the reputed highest point in this part , to the commencement
of the Thorn Country & halted on Crocodile Hill.

From what I can gather Magnibonium is most likely a mountain or Mtn Range not very far from Ulundi . Hope this helps a bit !.
cheers 90th.
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J.J.Meyer



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PostSubject: Re: Where are these locations.    Sun Jul 24, 2011 12:50 pm

Magnibonium, aka Emtonjaneni, aka Mtonjaneni, aka Dingaan's Spring

28Deg 20' 0S, 31Deg 19' 60E; approx.11 miles SW from Ulundi and approx. 4.5 miles ESE of uMgungundlovu - Dingane's Royal Kraal.
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dlancast

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PostSubject: Re: Where are these locations.    Sun Jul 24, 2011 9:00 pm

There is a really good museum there next to Mtonjaneni Lodge. I would highly recommend a visit there. - it is worth the effort. All kinds of Zulu and British Army artifacts. Also the remains of the fort are there (outline of the stone walls and trench). One can really get the sense of the isolation the British soldiers must have had.
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PostSubject: Re: Where are these locations.    Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:39 pm

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Burrups is situated. It is just outside Greytown, along the road to Helpmekaar before one descends into the Mooi River valley. Here is a photograph of the British camp site.
Text and Photo by forum member Ken Gillings
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Mr Greaves

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PostSubject: Re: Where are these locations.    Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:51 pm

Admin/ Ken thanks for the photo. More than expected. I'm still looking for the other place's photo's would be very appreciated. Idea
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Ken Gillings



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PostSubject: Re: Where are these locations.    Tue Jul 26, 2011 9:28 pm

The Sandspruit you refer to is probably the site of the NNC camp (which was situated a considerable distance from the regular forces' camp at Helpmekaar). It is a short distance away from the present village of Pomeroy. I'm bound to have a photograph of it and will ask Admin to post it in due course.
Seven Oaks lies between New Hanover and Greytown. If you blink slowly while driving through it, you'll miss it.
I'll try to either send you GPS co-ordinates of the others or photos (or even both) when I can find them.
Regards, Ken
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PostSubject: Re: Where are these locations.    Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:11 am

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Here is a photograph of the site of the NNC’s Sandspruit bivouac from Fort Bengough.
Photo and text by Ken Gillings.
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PostSubject: Re: Where are these locations.    Thu Jul 28, 2011 2:36 pm

Fort Mtonjaneni.In response to “Where are these locations?
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Photo's & Text by forum member dlancast.
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90th

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PostSubject: Saccharine   Thu Jul 28, 2011 2:40 pm

Hi all.
Thought I saw somewhere a member wanted some info on this town of Saccharine . This from ' A Civil Surgeon Serving With The
British Army In The Anglo Zulu War ' Diary of Lewis Reynolds ............

12th August 1879. ...... '' Marched 11 miles to Saccharine- outspanning after 6 miles at Verulam for 3 hrs- Verulam is a pretty & well
built town - the railway from Durban has been made to it- but as yet is only open to Saccharine. Saccharine hardly amounts to a town,
consisting of a number of galvanized tin stores- probably sprung up since the commencement of the war . The Buffs encamped here
preparatory to moving to Pinetown , where half a battalion moved by train today. There is a large quantity of sugar grown around here
hence the name .Oxen have to go back some miles to outspan - there being no common property near here- if found among the sugar stalks they are immediately put into pound. It is reported that a convoy near Koppie Allein with 2 Co's of the 2 / 24th were
surprised and cut to pieces , a few days ago- the report had not been confirmed. Several sacks of oranges have been sent during our march , as a present to the troops. Major England went by evening train to Durban to make arrangements '' .
cheers 90th.
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