WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM

Film Zulu Dawn:Lt. Col. Pulleine: His Lordship is of the cetain opinion that it's far too difficult an approach to be chosen by the Zulu command.Col. Durnford: Yes, well... difficulty never deterred a Zulu commander.
 
HomeHome  CalendarCalendar  GalleryGallery  PublicationsPublications  FAQFAQ  SearchSearch  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  
Latest topics
» Prince Imperial Leave Request at Woolwich
Today at 12:55 am by xhosa2000

» Lieutenant-Colonel Gerald Lionel Joseph Goff.
Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:26 pm by 90th

» R.I.P Terry Sole
Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:05 pm by nitro450

» Major Gonville Bromhead VC
Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:46 am by SRB1965

» Lt. G. Pardoe 1st Btn 13th (Somerset) Light Infantry
Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:45 am by ADMIN

» Natal Hussars
Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:02 pm by Rory Reynolds

» Location of grave : Lt. F. Scott Natal Carbineers
Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:49 pm by Tim Needham

» Lieutenant Henry Lysons
Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:47 pm by ADMIN

» Lt. H.Valentine Jay. Natal Native Contingent
Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:44 pm by ADMIN

» Lieut & Adjutant Henry Julian Dyer
Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:41 pm by ADMIN

» Lt Gonville Bromhead
Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:19 pm by ADMIN

» MAJOR FRANK BROADWOOD MATTHEWS
Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:15 pm by ADMIN

» Lodge Isandlwana Masonic Military Lodge
Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:11 pm by Muhlenbeck

» Lt. G. Baker 3rd Btn 60th Regiment
Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:03 pm by ADMIN

» Lt. F. Scott Natal Carbineers, killed in action at Isandlwana
Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:57 pm by ADMIN

Lt. General Sir J.G. Wolseley, General Officer Commanding
Mac and Shad (Isandula Collection)
The Battlefields of Isandlwana and Rorke's Drift
Search
 
 

Display results as :
 
Rechercher Advanced Search
Top posters
90th
 
littlehand
 
Frank Allewell
 
ADMIN
 
Chelmsfordthescapegoat
 
John
 
Mr M. Cooper
 
1879graves
 
impi
 
rusteze
 
Fair Use Notice
Fair use notice. This website may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorised by the copyright owner. We are making such material and images are available in our efforts to advance the understanding of the “Anglo Zulu War of 1879. For educational & recreational purposes. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material, as provided for in UK copyright law. The information is purely for educational and research purposes only. No profit is made from any part of this website. If you hold the copyright on any material on the site, or material refers to you, and you would like it to be removed, please let us know and we will work with you to reach a resolution.
Top posting users this month
90th
 
xhosa2000
 
SRB1965
 
Frank Allewell
 
ADMIN
 
Victorian Dad
 
Brett Hendey
 
rusteze
 
aussie inkosi
 
FLYNN
 
Most active topics
Isandlwana, Last Stands
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Durnford was he capable.5
Durnford was he capable.1
Durnford was he capable. 3
Durnford was he capable.2
Durnford was he capable. 4
The ammunition question
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
The missing five hours.

Share | 
 

 Camp of the 80th Regiment on the Zulu Border

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
AuthorMessage
littlehand

avatar

Posts : 7063
Join date : 2009-04-24
Age : 49
Location : Down South.

PostSubject: Camp of the 80th Regiment on the Zulu Border   Fri Aug 26, 2011 11:33 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Back to top Go down
RALPH HINZE



Posts : 12
Join date : 2011-10-13
Age : 49
Location : Piet Retief, South Africa

PostSubject: Re: Camp of the 80th Regiment on the Zulu Border   Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:59 am

Is there any indication in the text of the newspaper of where this camp is supposed to be? The 80th were stationed at Luneburg at some time during the Zulu war. I live near Luneburg and know the area quite well. I don't recognise the shape of the mountains as being the ones at Luneburg, but it could be that the artist made the shapes up. Perhaps they had other camps as well. Does anybody know more about the 80th's movements during the Zulu war? Perhaps you can fill us in?

There is also another engraving in the ILN of 3 May 1879 which shows Luneburg and the Pongola River.
Back to top Go down
barry

avatar

Posts : 820
Join date : 2011-10-21
Location : Port Elizabeth, Z.A.

PostSubject: 80th's camp site at Luneberg;   Tue Nov 15, 2011 2:33 pm

Hi Ralph,
I might have something on this.
Give me a day or two to go through the records and if suceesful I will revert.

barry

PS; I often travel through Piet Retief and Vryheid and was there 14 days ago.
Back to top Go down
kwajimu1879

avatar

Posts : 420
Join date : 2011-05-14

PostSubject: Re: Camp of the 80th Regiment on the Zulu Border   Tue Nov 15, 2011 2:52 pm

Ralph,
I'll check when I'm at home.
The mountains might have been in the mind of the engraver rather than the artist of the original sketch, who I believe in that case was Lt. B.W.R. Ussher of the 80th.
kwaJimu1879
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Camp of the 80th Regiment on the Zulu Border   Tue Nov 15, 2011 3:47 pm

This is from the Illustrated London News:

“The Illustration presented on our front page this week is a view of the camp of the 80th Regiment at Derby, for which we are indebted to a sketch by Lieutenant Beverley W. R. Ussher of that regiment. Derby is in the Transvaal territory, beyond the northern border of Zululand, and close to the Swazi country over which Cetewayo has always claimed a sovereignty, disputed by the Transvaal government. It is a distant of above a hundred miles from the Natal frontier, being situated quite on the opposite side of the Zulu kingdom.” (Source: Illustrated London New, April 19, 1879)


Petty Officer Tom
Back to top Go down
90th

avatar

Posts : 9300
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 61
Location : Melbourne, Australia

PostSubject: Camp of the 80th Regt on the zulu border    Wed Nov 16, 2011 1:44 am

Hi Ralph.
Firstly welcome to the forum , you cant go past this publication on the 80th Regt , I imagine all your questions will be answered here . This is also a very good price .

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

cheers 90th. Idea
Back to top Go down
RALPH HINZE



Posts : 12
Join date : 2011-10-13
Age : 49
Location : Piet Retief, South Africa

PostSubject: Re: Camp of the 80th Regiment on the Zulu Border   Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:43 pm

Thanks for all your answers. Very interesting! I will try to get the book you recommended, 90th.

Derby is just a few miles north of Piet Retief, where I live and work. Today it is a very small place of no real significance.

During the Zulu War the garrison in Lüneburg was supplied from their depot at Derby. Some of these supply wagons were attacked and plundered during the Intombi Drift massacre.
Back to top Go down
Frank Allewell

avatar

Posts : 6439
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 70
Location : Cape Town South Africa

PostSubject: Re: Camp of the 80th Regiment on the Zulu Border   Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:10 pm

The Luneburg Lager was built around their church by the German Settlers. On 19th October the lager was occupied by Major CF Clery and 2 companies of the 90th Light Infantry. The lager was strengthened and the adjoining graveyard fortified. In December 2 companies of the 1/13th Light Infantry and the dismounted Kaffrarian Rifles occupied the lager, succeeded on the 9th Feb 1879 by 5 companies of the 80th Staffordshire under Major C Tucker. They were relieved on 9th April by 2 companies of the 2/4th Kings Own Rifles under Major WF Blake. The adjacent Fort Clery ( earthwork) was built during November 1878.

Hope that helps.

Regards
Back to top Go down
RALPH HINZE



Posts : 12
Join date : 2011-10-13
Age : 49
Location : Piet Retief, South Africa

PostSubject: Re: Camp of the 80th Regiment on the Zulu Border   Sat Nov 19, 2011 10:12 am

Thanks Springbok 9. Where did you get all that information?

I wrote a book about my family in German, the Hinze clan, in 2008. I still mean to translate it later. In it I incorporated a life history by a greatgreatgrandmother of mine, Marie Rabe, in which she wrote about the Zulu war and the laager around the church, which you mentioned. The dates in her account are not mentioned in detail, however, because she wrote the account much later, in 1904, only.

She mentions 2 episodes of a Zulu impi coming very near the laager. The first time was before the British came to Lüneburg. She says the Zulus fetched wood and built a cattle kraal near the laager and then left. I have read somewhere that Cetshwayo had sent them to build this kraal as a beacon to say that he considered the land to be his.

The second episode was a Zulu impi that came near the laager while most men where out with the British soldiers, harvesting crops on the surrounding farms. Both times the inhabitants of the laager kept their cool and didn't shoot at the Zulus, who outnumbered them by far, and the Zulus moved on.

I always wondered also, why there was so little left of the laager around the old Lüneburg church next to the churchyard. Marie Rabe mentions that when the First Boer War started in 1881, the Transvaal government expected the Lüneburg men to fight for the Boers. They protested that they didn't see fit to fight again after all the losses they had had during the recent Zulu war. Also, of cause, they didn't want to fight te British, who had protected them in the AZW. They were allowed to stay neutral on condition that they dismantled their fortifications, so it couldn't be used by the British. This they duly did and that is why so little can be seen of the Laager today. The earthworks of Fort Clery can still be seen near where the school hostel is today.
Back to top Go down
johann engelbrecht



Posts : 107
Join date : 2010-06-06
Age : 54
Location : Piet Retief

PostSubject: Re: Camp of the 80th Regiment on the Zulu Border   Sat Nov 19, 2011 1:45 pm

A stone wall around the present church at Lüneburg, situated about 200 meters south of the original church laager, was constructed with the stones that formed part of the 15ft high stone wall. That also explains in part why not much is left of the original protective wall around the church at the time of the war. The first incident Mrs. Marie Rabe mentions, took place in mid-November in 1877 as described on page 134 in the Boiling Couldron by Huw Jones and the second incident on 4 April 1879.


Last edited by johann engelbrecht on Sat Nov 19, 2011 8:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
http://dtd@ptr.dorea.co.za
barry

avatar

Posts : 820
Join date : 2011-10-21
Location : Port Elizabeth, Z.A.

PostSubject: Luneburg redoubt   Sat Nov 19, 2011 6:11 pm

Hi Johan and Ralph,

Welcome to both of you.
As you are both in Piet Retief , not too far from Luneberg, you would be rendering future generations a great service if you could get together and document the Luneberg redoubt location and floor layout as closely as possibly. Simple line drawings based around present identifiable structures on the present site as well as digital photography will go a long way towards achieving this. Please add map grid co-ords as well. Most people these days have hand held GPS's so this should not be too much of a problem. Google Earth is always there too for this.
I am presently working , along these lines, on Fort Yollond which is 79.46 kms ese of Isandlwana.
Howick will be next.
regards,

barry


Last edited by barry on Fri Nov 25, 2011 5:11 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
littlehand

avatar

Posts : 7063
Join date : 2009-04-24
Age : 49
Location : Down South.

PostSubject: Re: Camp of the 80th Regiment on the Zulu Border   Sat Nov 19, 2011 7:26 pm

Quote :
Is there any indication in the text of the newspaper of where this camp is supposed to be?

This is all that accompanied the newspaper article originally posted.

"Camp 80th regiment zulu war soldiers horses cows 1879" .
Back to top Go down
RALPH HINZE



Posts : 12
Join date : 2011-10-13
Age : 49
Location : Piet Retief, South Africa

PostSubject: Re: Camp of the 80th Regiment on the Zulu Border   Mon Nov 21, 2011 1:34 pm

Thanks for all the replies.

Thanks for the information and the dates Jahann and Barry. I think it is a very good idea to put the different features on a map with their GPS co-ordinates. Johann, I think we will have to ask your dad to point out the exact spot of the laager to us. Even farm house vanish over the years,e.g. that of Marie Rabe. The present house on that farm is in a very different spot than the original one.

Littlehand, Petty Officer Tom has filled us in on the text inside the ILN newspaper describing the scene. Does anybody have the ILN of 3 May 1879 with the picture of "Luneberg and the Pongola River"? What does the text inside say about the picture? Perhaps Petty Officer Tom can fill us in on that one too?
Back to top Go down
RALPH HINZE



Posts : 12
Join date : 2011-10-13
Age : 49
Location : Piet Retief, South Africa

PostSubject: Re: Camp of the 80th Regiment on the Zulu Border   Mon Nov 21, 2011 3:02 pm

To summarise the information we have gathered so far about Lüneburg in chronological order:

Before November 1877- The German settlers of Lüneburg build a laager around their church.

Mid-November 1877- Zulus impi threatens the Lüneburg laager. The Zulus fetched wood and built a cattle kraal near the laager and then left. Cetshwayo had sent them to build this kraal as a beacon to say that he considered the land to be his. (described on page 134 in the Boiling Couldron by Huw Jones)

19 October 1878- The laager was occupied by Major CF Clery and 2 companies of the 90th Light Infantry. The lager was strengthened and the adjoining graveyard fortified.

November 1878- Fort Clery (earthwork) was built at Lüneburg.

In December 1878- 2 companies of the 1/13th Light Infantry and the dismounted Kaffrarian Rifles occupied the lager.

9 Feb 1879- 5 companies of the 80th Staffordshire under Major C Tucker occupy the laager.

4 April 1879- A Zulu impi came near the laager while most men where out with the British soldiers, harvesting crops on the surrounding farms. Both times the Zulus came near the laager, the inhabitants of the laager kept their cool and didn't shoot at the Zulus, who outnumbered them by far, and the Zulus moved on.

9 April 1879- 2 companies of the 2/4th Kings Own Rifles under Major WF Blake occupy the laager.

19 April 1879- ILN publishes picture of “Camp of the 80th Regiment on the Zulu Border” (at Derby). The caption inside the newspaper reads:

“The Illustration presented on our front page this week is a view of the camp of the 80th Regiment at Derby, for which we are indebted to a sketch by Lieutenant Beverley W. R. Ussher of that regiment. Derby is in the Transvaal territory, beyond the northern border of Zululand, and close to the Swazi country over which Cetewayo has always claimed a sovereignty, disputed by the Transvaal government. It is a distant of above a hundred miles from the Natal frontier, being situated quite on the opposite side of the Zulu kingdom.” (Source: Illustrated London New, April 19, 1879)

3 May 1879- ILN publishes picture of “Luneberg and Pongola River”

1881- The fortifications at Lüneburg are dismantled.
When the First Boer War started in 1881, the Transvaal government expected the Lüneburg men to fight for the Boers. They protested that they didn't see fit to fight again after all the losses they had had during the recent Zulu war. Also, of cause, they didn't want to fight te British, who had protected them in the AZW. They were allowed to stay neutral on condition that they dismantled their fortifications, so it couldn't be used by the British. This they duly did and that is why so little can be seen of the Laager today.

Back to top Go down
johann engelbrecht



Posts : 107
Join date : 2010-06-06
Age : 54
Location : Piet Retief

PostSubject: Re: Camp of the 80th Regiment on the Zulu Border   Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:58 pm

Hi Ralph,
the foundation of the church around which the stone wall was constructed can still be seen at the settler monument, while some of the remaining stones of the wall can still be seen on the southern side, towards the present church. According to Pastor Filter, Heinrich Filter was having tea with his mother, inside the laager before the fatefull ambush on June 6,1879. If you stand behind the monument, looking over to the homestead of Mr. Heimo Niebuhr, you can just imagine the anguish and fear of Mrs. Filter, witnessing the attack on her son!
Back to top Go down
http://dtd@ptr.dorea.co.za
Brett Hendey

avatar

Posts : 215
Join date : 2010-12-02
Location : Kloof, KZN

PostSubject: Re: Camp of the 80th Regiment on the Zulu Border   Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:00 pm

Ralph

Thank you for posting a very interesting record.

Regards
Brett
Back to top Go down
RALPH HINZE



Posts : 12
Join date : 2011-10-13
Age : 49
Location : Piet Retief, South Africa

PostSubject: Re: Camp of the 80th Regiment on the Zulu Border   Thu Nov 24, 2011 4:00 pm

Could somebody please explain to me how to post a photo onto the forum?

I have the picture of "Luneberg and the Pongola River" that I would like you to see. Unfortunately the resolution isn't too great, but at least it gives one an idea of what we were talking about.

If someone has a high resolution version of it, I would be gratful if you could perhaps post yours rather than to wait for mine.

Also, as I asked before, does anybody have the text of the article in ILN that goes with the picture?
Back to top Go down
barry

avatar

Posts : 820
Join date : 2011-10-21
Location : Port Elizabeth, Z.A.

PostSubject: Lunaberg Pictures   Fri Nov 25, 2011 8:53 am


Hi Ralph,
To get your pics into the forum, email : [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Give him a caption with all the detail that you want to go with the picture.


regards,

barry
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Camp of the 80th Regiment on the Zulu Border   

Back to top Go down
 
Camp of the 80th Regiment on the Zulu Border
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 1

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM  :: LINKS & IMAGES RELATING TO THE ZULU WAR 1879-
Jump to: