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Brev. Lt-Col. R.H. Buller, VC, Staff: 2/60th KRRC-Zungwini,Hlobane, Khambula, Ulundi
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 Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept

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Neil Aspinshaw

Neil Aspinshaw

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Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept Empty
PostSubject: Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept   Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept EmptySat Sep 17, 2011 9:16 pm

Just to let you know, BBC 4 at 20.30 Regimental stories is showing, and the first in the series is the Royal Welsh. Hopefully the footage they took with Bill at the Museum at Brecon, then with myself and Keith on the range at Stennybridge with the squaddies and Martini's is featured. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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Neil Aspinshaw

Neil Aspinshaw

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PostSubject: Re: Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept   Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept EmptyTue Sep 20, 2011 4:36 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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kwajimu1879

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Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept Empty
PostSubject: Re: Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept   Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept EmptyTue Sep 20, 2011 5:33 pm

Neil,

Have the B.B.C. been taken over by the Americans? 'Caliber' 'Defense'! To top it all the Scot Alexander Henry has suddenly become a Frenchman!

kwaJimu1879
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Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept Empty
PostSubject: Re: Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept   Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept EmptyTue Sep 20, 2011 6:26 pm

The 1874 battle of Rorke's Drift ? scratch
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Chelmsfordthescapegoat

Chelmsfordthescapegoat

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PostSubject: Re: Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept   Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept EmptyTue Sep 20, 2011 8:40 pm

On now. Very good so far. Idea
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PostSubject: Re: Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept   Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept EmptyTue Sep 20, 2011 11:29 pm

Neil was there but no Bill Cainan. Was Mike Snook not approached to appear in the programme being a Colonel in the Regiment and author of books about the Zulu War 1879 ?
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Neil Aspinshaw

Neil Aspinshaw

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PostSubject: Re: Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept   Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept EmptyWed Sep 21, 2011 9:07 am

Colin
No Mike was serving in Pretoria at the time. Bill's bit on the VC's wasn't in. Odd.
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sas1

sas1

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Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept Empty
PostSubject: Re: Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept   Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept EmptyWed Sep 21, 2011 11:46 am

Missed it. Is there going to be a repeat. Or can find it on the web.
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PostSubject: Re: Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept   Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept EmptyWed Sep 21, 2011 11:56 am

I missed it at its original time on television, but managed to catch it later on TV On Demand. I recommend having this facility for your television, as I would have missed many a programme without it.
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Neil Aspinshaw

Neil Aspinshaw

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PostSubject: Re: Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept   Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept EmptyWed Sep 21, 2011 11:59 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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sas1

sas1

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PostSubject: Re: Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept   Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept EmptyWed Sep 21, 2011 12:00 pm

Quote :
TV On Demand

No such luxuries out here Colin. Just the occasional satellite single if we lucky.
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sas1

sas1

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PostSubject: Re: Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept   Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept EmptyWed Sep 21, 2011 12:02 pm

Well done Neil. It keeps stopping and starting. But thanks. Off to watch it now. !!!
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90th

90th

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PostSubject: Regimental Stories.   Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept EmptyWed Sep 21, 2011 1:42 pm

Unfortunately for me I cant access it here in Australia . Suspect Suspect .
cheers 90th.
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Dave

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PostSubject: Re: Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept   Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept EmptyWed Sep 21, 2011 3:14 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Neil. TV First!!! Now write the book. Idea

Through a railway sleeper at 500 Yards. That's some power. I expect at the right distance one shot could have killed more than one Zulu.
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ADMIN

ADMIN

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PostSubject: Re: Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept   Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept EmptyWed Sep 21, 2011 3:37 pm

Neil. Was it your goodself who shot the "Mellon" or one of the young Soldiers. What range was that shot fire from, And how did the Soldiers fair on the range.
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Neil Aspinshaw

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PostSubject: Re: Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept   Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept EmptyWed Sep 21, 2011 3:50 pm

Pete

Melon shot was from 50 yards, although they did not show the first one I hit from 100 yards. In slo-mo you can see the bullet entering, the shockwave as the lead opens up and the final explosion as the energy is thrown outward. The bullet was a 480 grain 1:12 tin/lead alloy, identical to the service round load was 85 grains of Black powder

For historical accuracy I/we shot an 1873 Enfield Mk1/2 upgrade from my collection, my favourite with a most divine tiger pattern walnut.

Most of the shooting was at 100 yards, to be fair some shots were very good indeed, others high wide and not so handsome.

Bill will vouch for the fact after I spoke to the lads, to demo the MH accuracy I then placed three shots in a P11 target at 100 yards, a head shot, a chest and a stomach, as I said I would, I suspect there was a grudging respect.
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1879graves

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PostSubject: Re: Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept   Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept EmptyWed Sep 21, 2011 7:47 pm

Hi Neil

Many thanks for that, it was great to watch.


Hi 90th

Have you got Windows Media Player?
You can download it and play it on Media Player.
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John

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Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept Empty
PostSubject: Re: Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept   Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept EmptyThu Sep 22, 2011 3:38 pm

Neil. The MH. Doesn't look that confortable (If Thats the word to use) in the prone postion. Is there a big diffrence from what they use now and the MH.
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tasker224

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Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept Empty
PostSubject: Re: Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept   Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept EmptyThu Sep 22, 2011 4:32 pm

Just returned from a stint of working abroad on sunday and i was pleased to catch this superb documentary on tuesday. Whilst sitting on my backside this week, splayed out like a starfish, I really wasn't in the mood for watching military docs, but I am so glad I did bother.
Anyone know HOW reliable this documentary is?
I am about to reply to another thread on the same subject, but the narrator stated that 1 in 3 of B company, 24th who defended RD that day, was a Welshman.
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littlehand

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PostSubject: Re: Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept   Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept EmptyThu Sep 22, 2011 11:28 pm

Neil. Why was it necessary to removed the victim of the Bayonet with the foot. Was it really that hard to pull the bayonet out. Was this due to the shape or is this a normal with any bayonet.

There is an account from Isandlwana, an account from a Zulu, where he said a Soldier was doing deadly work with his Bayonet, but he was killed after he fixed his bayonet into the throat of a warrior, but could not pull it out.

Or something along this lines.
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90th

90th

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PostSubject: Regt Stories    Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept EmptyFri Sep 23, 2011 2:16 am

Hi Littlehand.
That has been the drawback of the Bayonet throughout all wars , they are difficult to remove . As the insides tend to stick
to the blade , therefore making it hard to withdraw . Todays Bayonets are much shorter than the old style which may make
it easier to withdraw . I dont profess to be an expert but I've read this many times over the years .
cheers 90th.
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24th

24th

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PostSubject: Re: Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept   Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept EmptyFri Sep 23, 2011 7:59 am

I wonder if the Zulu's had the same problem.
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90th

90th

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PostSubject: Regimental Stories.   Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept EmptyFri Sep 23, 2011 8:20 am

Hi 24th.
More than likely , yes .
cheers 90th
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Neil Aspinshaw

Neil Aspinshaw

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PostSubject: Re: Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept   Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept EmptyFri Sep 23, 2011 11:38 am

John
I prefer the teenie prone or leaning in, it dissipates the recoil through your body. Lying down and shooting at a target above you does make it more uncomfortable at the top of the butt-plate is on your collarbone, not the fleshy part of the shoulder. The most uncomfortable is sitting, unless you follow through with the muzzle blast. Still its not that bad.

Littlehand, the P76 has the the problem of suction, we tried it into a dead sheep, it sticks if you go between bone and it has to be literally yanked out. Into flesh it does retract easier. (I often wonder what the farmer thought when he found the carcass!!)
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tasker224

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PostSubject: Re: Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept   Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept EmptyFri Sep 23, 2011 5:05 pm

littlehand wrote:
Neil. Why was it necessary to removed the victim of the Bayonet with the foot. Was it really that hard to pull the bayonet out. Was this due to the shape or is this a normal with any bayonet.

There is an account from Isandlwana, an account from a Zulu, where he said a Soldier was doing deadly work with his Bayonet, but he was killed after he fixed his bayonet into the throat of a warrior, but could not pull it out.

Or something along this lines.

Suction/ friction/ negative pressure. Just stick a kitchen knife into a melon and try pulling it out!
More modern bayonets are designed to be a lot easier to pull out, without the need to kick off the victim or fire a round.
The grooves along the side are said to help with this as less flesh will then rub against the side of the bayonet as it withdraws and they also allow air in to the body relieving the negative pressure.
Nice - glad I have never been called on to do this!
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bill cainan



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PostSubject: Re: Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept   Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept EmptyMon Sep 26, 2011 9:50 am

Hi

You can imagine how many hours of filming were edited down into 30 minutes. Although we had some editorial control, the producers can literally show what they want - and this will always result in small errors. However, generally I thought they did an excellent job I was hoping that there might have been a spin-off programme - "The Neil Aspinshaw Show". His presentation (assisted by Keith Piggott) on the Martini-Henry to the shooting team of the 2nd Bn The Royal Welsh was excellent and the subsequent firing was most interesting. And yes, I can verify Neil did hit the (defenceless) melon at 100 yards !

Bill
Bill Cainan
Curator
The Regimental Museum of The Royal Welsh
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Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept Empty
PostSubject: Re: Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept   Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept EmptyMon Sep 26, 2011 3:12 pm

Neil, have you ever tried to hit a moving target, either approaching you or crossing your front at a distance, whether on an outside firing range or indoors ?
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Chelmsfordthescapegoat

Chelmsfordthescapegoat

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PostSubject: Re: Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept   Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept EmptyMon Sep 26, 2011 3:17 pm

Quote :
I can verify Neil did hit the (defenceless) melon at 100 yards !
Can't get better than an eye witness account.
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Neil Aspinshaw

Neil Aspinshaw

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PostSubject: Re: Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept   Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept EmptyMon Sep 26, 2011 9:05 pm

As Bill says, alot of the footage probably is on the cutting room floor, the work just didn't stop with the filming, the pub was damned hot work, (in the Rorkes drift) and the curry house just added to the extra workload.....

As I mentioned in the opening topic Bills' work was immense to get this off the ground. Why didn't they show the VC's Bill?

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impi

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Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept Empty
PostSubject: Re: Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept   Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept EmptyMon Sep 26, 2011 9:28 pm

The Zulu War section was excellent, but I feel the program went down hill when they started with the Leek eating with the new recruits.

It's a pity they didn't make a documentary about the museum it's self, Opening talk by Bill regarding the histroy of the regiment and museum, looking at various items (example) the colours, and then tell the story behind them. Neil could do a talk on the MH and Bayonet perhaps show how many rounds can be fired in a miniute in skilled hands. And what the effect would be on a leg pork along with the effectiveness of the bayonet. ( Just a thought)
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Chelmsfordthescapegoat

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PostSubject: Re: Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept   Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept EmptyMon Sep 26, 2011 9:59 pm

Deleted. Off Topic.
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Saul David 1879



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PostSubject: Re: Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept   Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept EmptyMon Sep 26, 2011 10:04 pm

Deleted Off Topic.
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tasker224

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Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept Empty
PostSubject: Re: Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept   Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept EmptyMon Sep 26, 2011 10:33 pm

impi wrote:
The Zulu War section was excellent, but I feel the program went down hill when they started with the Leek eating with the new recruits.

It's a pity they didn't make a documentary about the museum it's self, Opening talk by Bill regarding the histroy of the regiment and museum, looking at various items (example) the colours, and then tell the story behind them. Neil could do a talk on the MH and Bayonet perhaps show how many rounds can be fired in a miniute in skilled hands. And what the effect would be on a leg pork along with the effectiveness of the bayonet. ( Just a thought)


Well, no. This was a programme about the Royal Welsh, all of it, from its beginnings to the modern day, glorious bits and warty bits - including leek eating. It was not just a doc about the Zulu War.
I am not sure why the effect of a MH on a leg of pork would be relevant to the Royal Welsh or their history at all - I think Neil's demo on the effect of of a MH from 100yards was quite sufficient to help us envisage its use against the Zulus in the AZW (as well as other regiments of the army in other small wars at that time).
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PostSubject: Re: Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept   Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept EmptyTue Sep 27, 2011 2:48 am

Neil, I think my post has been overlooked due to recent events, so I'd better re-ask it. Have you ever shot at a moving target heading towards you or across your front on an outdoor firing range or indoors ? Also, perhaps multiple targets appearing individually in different positions following no set order, these methods being used to represent scenarios on a battlefield scenario against a mobile enemy, running from cover to cover, advancing over uneven ground or sniping from cover ?
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Neil Aspinshaw

Neil Aspinshaw

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PostSubject: Re: Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept   Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept EmptyTue Sep 27, 2011 11:16 am

Colin

We did an experiment at Epperstone Range near Nottingham, 300 yards with random target boards rising from the butts and falling in a few seconds. My hit rate was about 50% in the target black, the rest by the time I had a bead the bl@@dy thing dropped and it went into the sand.

One intersting observation of this was I tried to hit it as it fell, I hit low, 'erm too low, the bullet ploughed out two feet of turf above the butts, then smashing through the target frame two inches thick and showering splinters into the butts... really popular I was too...LOL

I would like to try it on a pop up target.
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Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept Empty
PostSubject: Re: Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept   Regimental Stories Tuesday 20th Sept EmptyTue Sep 27, 2011 4:23 pm

Neil, very interesting reply. I watched a documentary last night in which modern soldiers used the larger advancing enemy soldier targets. Also, in my books I've seen them used in pop-up machines, not necessarily on a range, but placed around in rough terrain, I guess to represent battlefield conditions. Fortunately for them they were using 30-round mags of 5.56mm ammo, albeit in single shot and shorter firearms. A lot longer lift and aim factor with the MH rifle I'd imagine in such an environment ? Windage, elevation and trajectory must affect shots significantly over longer distances, but surprise targets, such as ambushes, must have been fairly difficult with the MH, including delayed loading times and multiple advancing hostiles, especially in heavily wooded and shrub areas, with units broke up into small groups or individuals unable to keep cohesion in this type of terrain. I can understand the flush out tactics and the use of carbines in this latter scenario.
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