WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM

Film Zulu Dawn:General Lord Chelmsford: For a savage, as for a child, chastisement is sometimes a kindness. Sir Henry Bartle Frere: Let us hope, General, that this will be the final solution to the Zulu problem.
 
HomeHome  GalleryGallery  Latest imagesLatest images  SearchSearch  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  
Latest topics
» Punch's view of Chelmsford's tactics!
Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptyToday at 11:37 am by lydenburg

» Writing advice
Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptyTue Mar 26, 2024 2:26 pm by Julian Whybra

» Private John Scott 24th Regiment a fugitive at large
Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptyWed Mar 20, 2024 12:53 pm by Dash

» Sergeant W E Warren RA - Veteran
Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptyTue Mar 19, 2024 9:32 pm by Matthew Turl

» Your favourite line from Zulu or Zulu Dawn
Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptyTue Mar 19, 2024 4:52 pm by Julian Whybra

» 100,000 posts!
Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptyTue Mar 19, 2024 2:20 pm by Julian Whybra

» Zulu Dawn/Zulu - New Immortals Film The Way Forward ?
Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptySat Mar 16, 2024 2:34 pm by jgregory

» Badge on 2/60th and 3/60th foreign service helmets
Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptySat Mar 16, 2024 11:05 am by John Young

» Corporal James Frowen Williams F Company.
Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptyFri Mar 15, 2024 9:08 am by Julian Whybra

» British rations and morale
Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptyMon Mar 11, 2024 11:05 pm by Julian Whybra

» Blue Plaque to James Egan, alias Private Hagan
Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptyMon Mar 11, 2024 9:16 pm by ADMIN

» A few questions regarding Rorke's Drift and Isandlwana
Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptyWed Mar 06, 2024 9:16 pm by Julian Whybra

» William J Hoare 24th Regiment??
Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptySun Mar 03, 2024 7:08 pm by Dash

» Swinburn Carbine issue in AZW
Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptyThu Feb 29, 2024 12:53 pm by Rob D

» Australians who went to Zululand and fought in the 1879 war.
Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptyThu Feb 29, 2024 8:39 am by John Young

» Philip Price
Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptyThu Feb 29, 2024 7:55 am by Julian Whybra

» Alfred Fairlie Henderson
Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptyThu Feb 29, 2024 7:47 am by RoryReynolds

» August Hammar Letter Dated 6th Jan 1879
Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptyThu Feb 22, 2024 8:34 pm by Stefaan

» Bearing The Cross by Ken Blakeson | BBC RADIO DRAMA: Ken Blakeson's play tells the story of the Battle of Rorke's Drift and the effect it had on three of the soldiers who fought in it.
Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptyWed Feb 21, 2024 10:57 am by Julian Whybra

» Letter of officer during Zulu wars.
Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptyWed Feb 21, 2024 10:47 am by Julian Whybra

» About the second invasion
Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptyTue Feb 20, 2024 9:14 pm by 90th

» Zulu Festival Brecon July 2024
Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptySat Feb 17, 2024 7:35 pm by John Young

» Watford band boys killed at iSandlwana
Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptyFri Feb 16, 2024 8:26 am by Julian Whybra

» Private J. McCrudden 1/13 Foot
Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptySun Feb 11, 2024 3:10 am by 90th

» Death of Michael Jayson (Zulu Dawn)
Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptyThu Feb 08, 2024 9:55 pm by ADMIN

» The anniversary of 22nd January in 2024
Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptyThu Feb 08, 2024 3:51 pm by luke1997

» What was the distance?
Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptyThu Feb 08, 2024 8:46 am by Stefaan

» Mrs Henry Hook
Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptyTue Feb 06, 2024 3:14 pm by Kenny

» "With 6 good riflemen"
Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptyMon Feb 05, 2024 2:30 pm by Mr M. Cooper

» What was G company supposed to do?
Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptySun Feb 04, 2024 9:31 pm by Julian Whybra

» Private 1445 Charles Meates 17th Lancers and his brother William Wylie
Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptyFri Feb 02, 2024 10:07 pm by John Young

» South Africa Medal With Clasp To Pvt J. Salter 3/60th
Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptyFri Feb 02, 2024 3:12 pm by Foody

» Weatherleys Border Horse Flag
Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptyThu Feb 01, 2024 9:40 pm by Herbie

» Edward Plantagenet Kemeys-Tynte
Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptyTue Jan 23, 2024 10:06 pm by Edjg

» How many started?
Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptyTue Jan 23, 2024 10:10 am by Julian Whybra

Search
 
 

Display results as :
 
Rechercher Advanced Search
March 2024
MonTueWedThuFriSatSun
    123
45678910
11121314151617
18192021222324
25262728293031
CalendarCalendar
Most active topics
Durnford was he capable.1
Durnford was he capable. 4
Durnford was he capable.5
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Isandlwana, Last Stands
The ammunition question
Durnford was he capable. 3
Durnford was he capable.2
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
The missing five hours.
Most Viewed Topics
Please Do Not Post Ads on Our Forum
Google Chrome new standards imposed
Isandlwana, Last Stands
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Recent Members To The ZULU WAR 1879 Discussion & Reference Forum ( A Small Victorian War in 1879)
The missing five hours.
ISANDLWANA SURVIVIORS
The ammunition question
Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Top posting users this month
Julian Whybra
Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 Bar_leftIslandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 BarIslandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 Bar_right 
Dash
Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 Bar_leftIslandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 BarIslandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 Bar_right 
Hobbes
Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 Bar_leftIslandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 BarIslandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 Bar_right 
SRB1965
Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 Bar_leftIslandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 BarIslandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 Bar_right 
Bill8183
Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 Bar_leftIslandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 BarIslandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 Bar_right 
John Young
Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 Bar_leftIslandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 BarIslandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 Bar_right 
ADMIN
Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 Bar_leftIslandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 BarIslandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 Bar_right 
jgregory
Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 Bar_leftIslandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 BarIslandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 Bar_right 
Tim Needham
Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 Bar_leftIslandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 BarIslandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 Bar_right 
1879graves
Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 Bar_leftIslandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 BarIslandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 Bar_right 
New topics
» Punch's view of Chelmsford's tactics!
Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptyToday at 11:37 am by lydenburg

» Writing advice
Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptyTue Mar 19, 2024 8:57 pm by Hobbes

» 100,000 posts!
Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptySun Mar 17, 2024 11:14 am by ADMIN

» Badge on 2/60th and 3/60th foreign service helmets
Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptyFri Mar 15, 2024 8:27 pm by Rob Herrick

» British rations and morale
Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptyWed Mar 06, 2024 9:24 pm by Hobbes

» Alfred Fairlie Henderson
Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptyThu Feb 29, 2024 7:47 am by RoryReynolds

» Australians who went to Zululand and fought in the 1879 war.
Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptyFri Feb 23, 2024 2:23 am by peterfarrell

» About the second invasion
Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptySat Feb 17, 2024 9:53 pm by Hobbes

» Zulu Festival Brecon July 2024
Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptySat Feb 17, 2024 7:35 pm by John Young

Similar topics
Zero tolerance to harassment and bullying.
Due to recent events on this forum, we have now imposed a zero tolerance to harassment and bullying. All reports will be treated seriously, and will lead to a permanent ban of both membership and IP address. Any member blatantly corresponding in a deliberate and provoking manner will be removed from the forum as quickly as possible after the event.  If any members are being harassed behind the scenes PM facility by any member/s here at 1879zuluwar.com please do not hesitate to forward the offending text.  We are all here to communicate and enjoy the various discussions and information on the Anglo Zulu War of 1879. Opinions will vary, you will agree and disagree with one another, we will have debates, and so it goes. There is no excuse for harassment or bullying of anyone by another person on this site. The above applies to the main frame areas of the forum. The ring which is the last section on the forum, is available to those members who wish to partake in slagging matches. That section cannot be viewed by guests and only viewed by members that wish to do so. 
Fair Use Notice
Fair use notice. This website may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorised by the copyright owner. We are making such material and images are available in our efforts to advance the understanding of the “Anglo Zulu War of 1879. For educational & recreational purposes. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material, as provided for in UK copyright law. The information is purely for educational and research purposes only. No profit is made from any part of this website. If you hold the copyright on any material on the site, or material refers to you, and you would like it to be removed, please let us know and we will work with you to reach a resolution.
 

 Islandwana by Dr Greaves

Go down 
+14
tasker224
24th
old historian2
ymob
Tomozulu
Frank Allewell
ADMIN
Drummer Boy 14
90th
Saul David 1879
sas1
impi
Chelmsfordthescapegoat
Eric
18 posters
Go to page : Previous  1, 2
AuthorMessage
littlehand

littlehand


Posts : 7076
Join date : 2009-04-24
Age : 55
Location : Down South.

Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Islandwana by Dr Greaves   Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptyFri Oct 28, 2011 6:56 pm

Hi Julian.
Quote :
available for viewing by the public.
Are copies available for purchasing.
Back to top Go down
Eric




Posts : 116
Join date : 2011-06-17

Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Islandwana by Dr Greaves   Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptyFri Oct 28, 2011 7:52 pm

Mr Whyrba
I am interested to hear your opinion. However I do wish the AZW community would get away from this sort of innuendo type behavior. Coud you perhaps tabulate or list the errors or inaccuracies that you fee Dr Greaves has made in his book. As an amateur I find it a little frustrating when published authors sagely nod their heads and mutter without making their thoughts or feelings about a work plain for all the rest of us. Dr Greaves has at least put his opinion down in print.
Back to top Go down
Drummer Boy 14

Drummer Boy 14


Posts : 2008
Join date : 2011-08-01
Age : 27

Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Islandwana by Dr Greaves   Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptyFri Oct 28, 2011 8:08 pm

Littlehand,

I had to cancel my vist to the museum but they said they dont sell copys of the
papers but i think they may be able to copy a transcript.

When i go i will try and photo the order in question. Idea


Regards
DB14
Back to top Go down
Eric




Posts : 116
Join date : 2011-06-17

Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Islandwana by Dr Greaves   Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptySat Oct 29, 2011 6:35 am

We will but I would really value an experts tabulation of exactly what he disagrees with about another author.
I am asking out of ignorance.
Back to top Go down
Julian Whybra




Posts : 3949
Join date : 2011-09-12
Location : Billericay, Essex

Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Islandwana by Dr Greaves   Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptySat Oct 29, 2011 8:54 am

Little Hand
Back copies are available through the Victorian Military Society.
Eric
I shall but not through the PM.
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest




Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Islandwana by Dr Greaves   Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptySat Oct 29, 2011 10:30 am

Julian, I meant to ask. A while ago on another site, you mentioned in a marathon Isandhlwana topic, that you had or were working on a paper/thesis, about the ratio I think of the number of the defenders and available firepower against the numbers of the attacking Zulu Army. It appeared to mean you could prove by this, that there was no way the camp could have been held, no matter what the commanders' actions or decisions. Did you complete this study ?
Back to top Go down
Julian Whybra




Posts : 3949
Join date : 2011-09-12
Location : Billericay, Essex

Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Islandwana by Dr Greaves   Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptySat Oct 29, 2011 10:47 am

Colin
You have the wrong person I think. I do believe that no matter what the firepower and numbers, it was the disposition of the British troops which settled who would win at Isandhlwana.
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest




Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Islandwana by Dr Greaves   Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptySat Oct 29, 2011 10:53 am

Julian, there's a chance I've given the wrong description of the study you were doing, but it was definitely your good self, as it was in a discussion I myself was partaking in. It'd be ages to find it again, if ever, as there were so many debates about Durnford and Pulliene's roles, as well as troop movements. Thanks for replying though.
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest




Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Islandwana by Dr Greaves   Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptySat Oct 29, 2011 11:09 am

Julian, as an aside, I saw you were curious on the other Zulu War discussion forum (September 2011) about the mentioning of 2nd Corporal N. Mansfield, 7th Company, Royal Engineers, being at Durnford's side in his last stand. Apparently, there was a survivor's account stating that Durnford's orderly was seen standing beside him. Mansfield, I was informed, was Durnford's orderly, so therefore I concluded it was him.
Back to top Go down
Drummer Boy 14

Drummer Boy 14


Posts : 2008
Join date : 2011-08-01
Age : 27

Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Islandwana by Dr Greaves   Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptySat Oct 29, 2011 11:12 am

Colin J,

I think this is that you are refering to.


'' Harry Davies caught his last glimpse of his commanding officer that day . Durnford was out near the firing line , an isolated and deeply forlorn figure , and ' his mounted orderly was standing before him with a drawn sword and the zulus all around.

Cheers
DB14
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest




Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Islandwana by Dr Greaves   Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptySat Oct 29, 2011 12:12 pm

Thanks DB14, I think it was you who supplied this info on another topic for myself too. I should have remembered it to include the quote here. Rolling Eyes Old age I put it down to and I've not even reached 50 yet !
Back to top Go down
Julian Whybra




Posts : 3949
Join date : 2011-09-12
Location : Billericay, Essex

Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Islandwana by Dr Greaves   Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptySun Oct 30, 2011 10:18 am

Colin
Mansfield was Durnford's driver of his personal waggon and (presumably) batman NOT his orderly - a very different thing. Mansfield would certainly not have had a sword and he certainly would not have been mounted.
Back to top Go down
Eric




Posts : 116
Join date : 2011-06-17

Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Islandwana by Dr Greaves   Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptySun Oct 30, 2011 12:04 pm

So what is the truth about the orders and what do they say?
I would be intrigued to know.
Back to top Go down
Drummer Boy 14

Drummer Boy 14


Posts : 2008
Join date : 2011-08-01
Age : 27

Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Islandwana by Dr Greaves   Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptySun Oct 30, 2011 12:20 pm

Eric they are intact and state

" You are to march to this camp at once with all force you have with you
of NO.2 Column.
Major Bengoughs battalion is to move to Rorkes Drift as ordered yesterday.
2nd/24th, artillery and mounted men with the General and Colonel Glyn
move off at once to attack a Zulu force about 10 miles distant."

No mention of Take Command
No mention of Reinforce

Cheers
DB14
Back to top Go down
Drummer Boy 14

Drummer Boy 14


Posts : 2008
Join date : 2011-08-01
Age : 27

Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Islandwana by Dr Greaves   Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptySun Oct 30, 2011 12:21 pm

Also what is the difrence between the book he wrote earlier
and the one that he has just brought out know???

Cheers
DB14
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest




Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Islandwana by Dr Greaves   Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptySun Oct 30, 2011 12:47 pm

Julian, thanks for the details. As an (yet another) aside, in connection to Durnford. Now that Edmund Yorke has revealed the name of the new Col. Durnford biography and its author, to be released next year 2012, do you have any knowledge if said author of book, will release earlier details through the publisher, of the books contents, as in hardback/paperback, front cover illustration, number of pages, illustrations, etc., and information regarding a possible pre-order facility ? I can't express enough how much this is of interest to myself. I didn't wish to contact you by pm, as such info is of interest to us all. Thanks in advance.
Back to top Go down
Eric




Posts : 116
Join date : 2011-06-17

Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Islandwana by Dr Greaves   Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptySun Oct 30, 2011 4:17 pm

So the orders in Dr Greaves book are correct then?
Just asking.
Also have to agree with CTSG about the other issue.
Back to top Go down
Drummer Boy 14

Drummer Boy 14


Posts : 2008
Join date : 2011-08-01
Age : 27

Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Islandwana by Dr Greaves   Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptySun Oct 30, 2011 4:25 pm

Sorry Eric i may have got a few words wrong in them but there are no parts missing and they do not state take command or reinforce.

Hopefully my copy will arrive in a few days so i can correct it then.

The order CTSG posted on the first page was the wrong one.


Cheers
DB14
Back to top Go down
Eric




Posts : 116
Join date : 2011-06-17

Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Islandwana by Dr Greaves   Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptySun Oct 30, 2011 5:31 pm

Ok this is a dumb question but the order Dr Greave reproduced in his book from Lord C to Col D are accurate. SO that implies that Col D was within his rights by pursuing the left horn.
The orders from Pulline to Cavaye instruticng him to pull back into the camp are a fake.
Just checking.
Thanks
Back to top Go down
Drummer Boy 14

Drummer Boy 14


Posts : 2008
Join date : 2011-08-01
Age : 27

Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Islandwana by Dr Greaves   Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptySun Oct 30, 2011 5:34 pm

Yes you are correct

Durnford was instructed to move to the camp, no mention of anything else.

In my opinon the order is a fake, 2 people getting the time wrong, and who would have taken the order??

Cheers
DB14


Last edited by Drummer Boy 14 on Sun Oct 30, 2011 6:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest




Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Islandwana by Dr Greaves   Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptySun Oct 30, 2011 5:57 pm

Eric, in order to make it look like or give the impression Durnford did disobey orders at Isandhlwana, his opponents keep referring to his reprimand by Chelmsford. However, this is just to distract readers away from the truth, in the fact he was obeying his orders as he understood, not abusing them to the point of deliberately wrongly interpreting them to suit his own purposes.
Back to top Go down
barry

barry


Posts : 947
Join date : 2011-10-21
Location : Algoa Bay

Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Chelmsfords absymally poor performance   Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptySun Oct 30, 2011 6:15 pm

It was quite interesting to read the debate still raging about who was to blame for the mess at Isandhlawana. Quantrill and Lock have it right, it was only the officer in command, one Chelmsford , aka Lord Augustus Thesiger an ex naval officer who bought his commission and was quite incapable of the task. If this moron had listened to Dartnell before the setting up of the camp the end result would have been different. Dartnell was rudely rebuffed when offering advise about camp defence and was passed a message, quote " tell that policeman I know what I am doing". In reality Dartnell was a military veteran of the Indian Mutiny, serving with my grandfather there, one Major James Giles in the 14th Hussars, under Major General Sir Hugh Rose.
Back to top Go down
Drummer Boy 14

Drummer Boy 14


Posts : 2008
Join date : 2011-08-01
Age : 27

Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Islandwana by Dr Greaves   Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptySun Oct 30, 2011 7:05 pm

Crealcok lied about the orders

Chelsmford went along with it.

Very cowardly but i geuss they needed someone to blame so they close Durnford.


Cheers
DB14
Back to top Go down
Eric




Posts : 116
Join date : 2011-06-17

Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Islandwana by Dr Greaves   Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptySun Oct 30, 2011 7:13 pm

I understand all the above. What I am seeking clarity on is the issue of whether or not the orders which Dr Grevaes has reproduced were fakes or so badly damaged that vital bits were missing. That seems to be what some poster are suggesting but not stating outright.
I was not aware of the order from Pullien to Cavaye that is something new for me but according to Mr Whybra that is a fake. How did that order fake or real affect our understanding of Islnadwana.
Back to top Go down
runner2




Posts : 63
Join date : 2010-12-06

Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Islandwana by Dr Greaves   Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptyTue Nov 01, 2011 12:56 pm

Hi
Barry's comment above is right. Quantrill & Lock's books , also Ian Knight's are the more reliable accounts. I've found that Mr Greave's books are not exactly, what would you say,? I think you know what I mean!
Back to top Go down
Julian Whybra




Posts : 3949
Join date : 2011-09-12
Location : Billericay, Essex

Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Islandwana by Dr Greaves   Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptyTue Nov 01, 2011 1:26 pm

All three commanders made mistakes on the day. All three can be blamed to some extent. It's a question of degree. Ultimately, the main fault must lie with the Zulus - for winning!
For me Jackson's account remains the most unbiased, plainly told enabling the reader to make up his own mind, and thoroughly academic in its approach with proper footnotes. Each to his own of course. Naturally Ian Knight's and Lock & Quantrill's are valuable and have roles to play but Jackson's is just so simply put without being simplistic.
Back to top Go down
Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell


Posts : 8572
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 77
Location : Cape Town South Africa

Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Islandwana by Dr Greaves   Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptyTue Nov 01, 2011 1:33 pm

Julian
I would tend to agree with your summary. Zulu Rising is to my mind a replacement for TWOTS in the huge overview it gives. HCMDB is a more fanciful book but gives a possible scenario and possible answers to a group of questions. If it has a fault it is probably Mike Snooks, 'brook no arguement aproach'.
Lock and Quantrill provoke thought, I love the different doors they enjoy wandering through.
Without doubt Jacksons is the most accurate, Ive just taken delivery of the 'Sources revisited' and look forward to reading it

Regards
Back to top Go down
Julian Whybra




Posts : 3949
Join date : 2011-09-12
Location : Billericay, Essex

Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Islandwana by Dr Greaves   Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptyTue Nov 01, 2011 2:07 pm

Eric
Your postings seem to suggest that you find it hard to choose between different opinions. Let me try to guide you in terms of anything factual that is stated. Always look at the footnotes to see if the source (a primary source, not secondary) is stated and assess its reliability. A professional historian will always source his remarks and is the more reliable for it. Popular histories just don't do it as publishers assume that footnotes are a turn-off for the casual reader.
Back to top Go down
90th

90th


Posts : 10881
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 67
Location : Melbourne, Australia

Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Isandlwana by Greaves.   Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptyWed Nov 02, 2011 12:03 am

Hi Springbok.
I have '' Both '' of the Jackson books and they have plenty of footnotes . Footnotes are important as it
tells you where the source originated . I purchased '' Hill Of The Sphinx '' and '' Sources Revisited ''
from the Royal Regt Of Wales online shop . Here is the link . Very good price for these books .

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

cheers 90th.
Back to top Go down
Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell


Posts : 8572
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 77
Location : Cape Town South Africa

Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Islandwana by Dr Greaves   Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptyWed Nov 02, 2011 6:07 am

90th
Brilliant book. The footnotes and source notes are probably the best Ive seen. Some really fascinating insights. I re read it again last night.
By the way I paid 20GBP for both from RRW shop.

Regards
Back to top Go down
Drummer Boy 14

Drummer Boy 14


Posts : 2008
Join date : 2011-08-01
Age : 27

Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Islandwana by Dr Greaves   Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptyFri Nov 04, 2011 7:12 pm

The image that CTSG posted on page 1

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]


This order is from Major Spalding to Colonel Durnford

It is in no way anything to do with his last order from Crealock

Cheers
DB14


Last edited by Drummer Boy 14 on Sat Nov 05, 2011 11:07 am; edited 4 times in total
Back to top Go down
littlehand

littlehand


Posts : 7076
Join date : 2009-04-24
Age : 55
Location : Down South.

Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Islandwana by Dr Greaves   Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptyFri Nov 04, 2011 8:59 pm

How do you know, its from Spalding to Dunrford DB14.
Back to top Go down
Drummer Boy 14

Drummer Boy 14


Posts : 2008
Join date : 2011-08-01
Age : 27

Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Islandwana by Dr Greaves   Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptyFri Nov 04, 2011 9:24 pm

Littlehand

The numbers add up with what is in Greaves book Idea

Cheers
DB14


Last edited by Drummer Boy 14 on Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
Drummer Boy 14

Drummer Boy 14


Posts : 2008
Join date : 2011-08-01
Age : 27

Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Islandwana by Dr Greaves   Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptySun Nov 06, 2011 1:39 pm

Hear is what the above order says ( source Adreain Greaves )

Lieut. Colonel Durnford R.E
Camp Helpmakaar
1.You are requested to move the troops under your immediate command viz.: mounted men, rocket battery and Sakeli’s men to Rourke’s Drift tomorrow the 20th inst,; and to encamp on the left bank of the buffalo (In Zululand. )

2.No.3 Column moves to the Isandhlana Hill.

3.Major Bengough with his battalion of Native Contingent at Sandpruit is to hold himself in readiness to cross the Buffalo at the shortest possible notice to operate against Chief Matyana. His wagons will cross at Rourke’s Drift.

4.Information is requested as to the ford where the above battalion can best cross, as to co-operate with No.3 Column in clearing the country occupied by chief Matyana.


By order, H Spalding. Major DAAG[/i]
Camp Rourke’s Drift 19.1.79[/i]
Back to top Go down
ADMIN

ADMIN


Posts : 4349
Join date : 2008-11-01
Age : 64
Location : KENT

Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Islandwana by Dr Greaves   Islandwana by Dr Greaves - Page 2 EmptyTue Nov 22, 2011 9:40 pm

I believe in freedom of speech, but as the Administrator I have to make decisions to preserve the integrity of this forum. I now firmly believe that some members are using this forum, to carry out personal attacks on certain individuals and there work in a public domain. Some members may feel my decision is wrong in that I will be deleting the last two posts and locking down this particular thread.

May I suggest to those members who have issues regarding work by other Authors-Historians deal with them off the forum. Idea
Back to top Go down
https://www.1879zuluwar.com
 
Islandwana by Dr Greaves
Back to top 
Page 2 of 2Go to page : Previous  1, 2
 Similar topics
-
» Captain Greaves Isandula Survivor.
» Adrian Greaves Was Looking For Maj. Smith's Grave ?
» Publications by Dr Adrian Greaves.

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM  :: GENERAL DISCUSSION AREA-
Jump to: