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 How many rifles did the Zulus have?

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Drummer Boy 14

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PostSubject: How many rifles did the Zulus have?   Sat Oct 08, 2011 1:14 pm

I have just read in The Washing Of The Spears that the King asked John Dunne to get him rifles as the tribe he wanted to attack had fireamrs. It states that Dunne returned with 150 rirles from Natal and another 100 later. This was i believe in 1873 so what could the rirles have been? Was the Marti-Henry out then? or would they have been Sniders.



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90th

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PostSubject: How many rifles did the zulu's have .   Sun Oct 09, 2011 6:08 am

Hi DB14.
There is a discussion on this subject on the Forum , it was a while ago when it was discussed . The Zulu had many guns but
somewhere in the realm of 95 % were of the Antiquated / Vintage variety . Search the earlier threads in this section and you
may come across it .
cheers 90th. Idea
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PostSubject: Re: How many rifles did the Zulus have?   Sat Oct 15, 2011 5:19 pm

Hi 90th

Just read the Zulus had around 20,000 guns but only 500 where modern breach loaders.


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90th

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PostSubject: How many rifles did the zulu's have .   Sat Oct 15, 2011 8:19 pm

Hi DB14.
I've never read anywhere that the zulu had modern breach loaders ,unless you are referring to post Isandlwana and I would think
they would've had more than the 500 !. Where did you read this ?. Please Dont tell me Wikpedia !. Suspect Suspect :lol!:
cheers 90th. Idea
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Drummer Boy 14

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PostSubject: Re: How many rifles did the Zulus have?   Sat Oct 15, 2011 8:53 pm

Hi 90th
Sorry i ment the Zulus had 20,000 guns but only 500 where rifles.
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90th

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PostSubject: How many rifles did the zulu's have .   Sun Oct 16, 2011 7:05 am

Hi DB14.
Thanks for clearing that up , I nearly choked on my cornflakes !. :lol!: .
cheers 90th. Idea
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PostSubject: Re: How many rifles did the Zulus have?   Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:10 am

Hi all

Zulus have 2% of firearm,one for 50 warriors...

Cheers

Pascal
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24th

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PostSubject: Re: How many rifles did the Zulus have?   Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:30 pm

This is something we will never know.
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90th

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PostSubject: How many rifles did the zulu have ?   Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:38 pm

Hi 24th .
Agreed , we'll never know , but they did have a lot , albeit of the antiquated models .
cheers 90th.
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PostSubject: Re: How many rifles did the Zulus have?   Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:51 am

DB14


THIS FIGURE OF 2% COMES OUT OF THIN AIR FOR ISANDHLWANA.

THE NUMBER SIMPLY CANNOT BE PINNED DOWN.

THERE WERE SOME ZULUS THERE WITH MUZZLE LOADING RIFLES AND MUSKETS - BUT AS TO A FIGURE - WHAT CAN ONE SAY, A COUPLE OF HUNDRED PERHAPS?

THE EXACT NUMBER OF FIREARMS IS SIMPLY NOT KNOWN.

AT RD THE NUMBER OF MUZZLE LOADING RIFLES ON THE OSKARBERG SLOPES VARIES BETWEEN 60 AND 80.

THE ZULUS ATTACKING RD WOULD HAVE HAD NO OPPORTUNITY TO PICK UP THE MARTINI-HENRYS FROM ISANDHLWANA WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE INDLUYENGWE WHO CHASED THE FUGITIVES ALONG THE FUGITIVES' TRAIL TO THE BUFFALO.

BUT HONESTLY, HOW MANY OF THOSE FUGITIVES WOULD HAVE THE MARTINI-HENRY RIFLES OF THE INFANTRY?

MOST WOULD HAVE MARTINI-HENRY CARBINES OR SNIDERS.

SO THE NUMBER OF MARTINI-HENRYS AT RD WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN GREAT.

THE MAJORITY OF THE WOUNDS AT RD WERE FROM ENFIELD SLUGS.

CHEERS

PASCAL
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Neil Aspinshaw

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PostSubject: Re: How many rifles did the Zulus have?   Sat Feb 04, 2012 10:41 am

This has been discussed previously


The only primary scource of Zulu firearms is made by Capt Woodgate after Khambula, it can be found P175 of the Red Solider. "325 firearms (14 martinis & one snider carbine) ..the other firearms were of various patterns, a large number being tower muskets and Enfield rifles.

Take the rough amount of Zulu's involved, those who became casulaties, and allow for those dropped in the pursuit, the result is quite high.

Emery does surmise as to the low quantity of modern breech loaders and ammunition recovered

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PostSubject: Re: How many rifles did the Zulus have?   Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:10 pm

Hello Neil

Bravo Neil

In any case, even without counting the catches of the three Zulu victories before Kambula , it is likely that after the three battles of 22 and 23 January, the Zulu had wanted to take more firearms in combat to have seen their effects in January, at Nyezane, Isandhlwana and RD ...( and many firearm are recuperated by the abaQulusi ,they are at Kambula ?)

The numbers I gave are for January 21 ...

Cheers

Pascal
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Drummer Boy 14

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PostSubject: Re: How many rifles did the Zulus have?   Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:46 pm

The supply of guns to the Zulu Nation started in 1860's when Shepstone gave Dunn permission to supply 250 guns.Subsequently, all thirteen future applications made by Dunn were denied.
Effectively barred from legally exporting guns, Dunn used Lourenco Marques as the point of distribution. From 1873 to 1879 it was estimated that Dunn supplied no less than fifteen thousand guns to Cetshwayo in the six year period.This trade was not considered illegal and leading commercial firms in Durban, including Beningfield and Sons, circumvented the ban introduced by the Natal Government by using LM as point of entry.
From the two hundred and fifty Tower muskets bought in 1860 for 2/6d each and sold for one gun per ten oxen, Dunn accumulated enormous wealth.
The fifteen thousand mentioned above included five hundred breech loaders and ten thousand barrels of gun powder, all technically legally supplied.
Carnarvon was only made aware of events in 1877.


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PostSubject: Re: How many rifles did the Zulus have?   Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:19 am

DB 14

In totality,2% of musket and rifles in the royal zulu army before Isandhlwana...

Cheers

Pascal
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