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Zulu.Lieutenant John Chard: What's our strength? Lieutenant Gonville Bromhead: Seven officers including surgeon, commissaries and so on; Adendorff now I suppose; wounded and sick 36, fit for duty 97 and about 40 native levies. Not much of an army for you.
 
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A witness to Coghill & Melville cutting thier way through the Zulu's IMG-7742 Mac and Shad] (Isandula Collection)
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 A witness to Coghill & Melville cutting thier way through the Zulu's

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littlehand

littlehand

Posts : 7081
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A witness to Coghill & Melville cutting thier way through the Zulu's Empty
PostSubject: A witness to Coghill & Melville cutting thier way through the Zulu's   A witness to Coghill & Melville cutting thier way through the Zulu's EmptySun Nov 06, 2011 8:11 pm

I'm not to sure who the witness is here. But he say's he saw Coghill & Melville cutting thier way through the Zulu's. Apart from that quite interesting.

Saturday 26 April 1879 >
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kwajimu1879

kwajimu1879

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A witness to Coghill & Melville cutting thier way through the Zulu's Empty
PostSubject: Re: A witness to Coghill & Melville cutting thier way through the Zulu's   A witness to Coghill & Melville cutting thier way through the Zulu's EmptySun Nov 06, 2011 8:56 pm

Littlehand,

Lieutenant Young's account is a pack of lies! It was discredited as far back as 1879.

Sorry,

kwaJimu1879
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littlehand

littlehand

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A witness to Coghill & Melville cutting thier way through the Zulu's Empty
PostSubject: Re: A witness to Coghill & Melville cutting thier way through the Zulu's   A witness to Coghill & Melville cutting thier way through the Zulu's EmptySun Nov 06, 2011 9:40 pm

Quote :
Sorry,
Jimo. Don't be. I just post what I find and let you guys pick the bone's. For me its a learning curve.

On that note:
Quote :
Lieutenant Young's account is a pack of lies! It was discredited as far back as 1879.
Is there a source to this.
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kwajimu1879

kwajimu1879

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A witness to Coghill & Melville cutting thier way through the Zulu's Empty
PostSubject: Re: A witness to Coghill & Melville cutting thier way through the Zulu's   A witness to Coghill & Melville cutting thier way through the Zulu's EmptySun Nov 06, 2011 11:01 pm

Littlehand,

Lieutenant H.C. Young's account was discredited in a letter which appeared in 'The Natal Witness' of 16th May 1879, written by Lieutenant Walter Higginson, 2nd Battalion, 3rd Regiment Natal Native Contingent. Higginson was regiment's adjutant and he states that Young had gone on sick leave on 21st January 1879. Higginson's account was collaborated by an eye witness who stated that he saw H.C. Young in Sandspruit on afternoon on 21st January 1879.

Young's brother, Lieutenant L.D. Young, did die at Isandlwana, with the 2nd Battalion, 3rd Regiment N.N.C. Captain W.H. Stafford recounted how he was killed as he was attempting to save him.

Despite H.C. Young's account being debunked it still makes it into some recent material on the subject.

kwaJimu1879
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ADMIN

ADMIN

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A witness to Coghill & Melville cutting thier way through the Zulu's Empty
PostSubject: Re: A witness to Coghill & Melville cutting thier way through the Zulu's   A witness to Coghill & Melville cutting thier way through the Zulu's EmptySun Nov 06, 2011 11:21 pm

This from 90th
Subject: Coghill and Melvill Sat 19 Mar 2011 - 3:29

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote :
"Hi All.
More info on Young . This from the Wonderfully detailed Work '' England's Sons '' by Julian Whybra a must have if Lists and
Names are for you . Frauds , Erroneous Inclusions , Missspellings , and Conundra .

Lieut . H.C.Young . He wrote a fraudulent report of his escape in ' The Echo ' , 24th Feb 1879 , which was reproduced in at
least one British Newspaper , and an extract from which was used in Mackinnon and Shadbolt ( Although in it he is referred to as
Capt. Young . ) In fact he went on sick leave from the 3rd Regt , NNC , on the 21st Jan 79 . He was seen in Sandspruit , Natal
that same afternoon . His fictitious story was exposed by Lieut. Higginson , his Adjutant , in a letter to the Natal Mercury, 16th May
79 . This man is not to be confused with his brother , Lieut. L.D. Young , also of the 3rd Regt NNC. Who was killed in action at
Isandlwana".

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tasker224

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A witness to Coghill & Melville cutting thier way through the Zulu's Empty
PostSubject: Re: A witness to Coghill & Melville cutting thier way through the Zulu's   A witness to Coghill & Melville cutting thier way through the Zulu's EmptyMon Nov 07, 2011 7:43 pm

Crikey, some of these Victorian officers were disreputable, dishonest, sad pieces of work weren't they.
The more I learn, the more shocked I am at the behaviour, character, dishonesty and incompetence of these Officers.
The men, NCOs etc, as always - lions.

And why would Young completely fabricate an account like that? What was he seeking to gain?
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barry

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A witness to Coghill & Melville cutting thier way through the Zulu's Empty
PostSubject: Lt Youngs report   A witness to Coghill & Melville cutting thier way through the Zulu's EmptyTue Nov 08, 2011 5:02 am

Once again, well said Tasker.
Remember, the fish rots from the head.
Thus, if it was the practise of the day to protect ones reputation, by any means whatsoever, fair means or foul, little wonder that a false written order could be produced post the battle of Isandhlawana to protect the so called "reputation" of Chelmsford. As an aside, I personally think that Durnford may have been made to pay for the latters incompetence because of the formers link with the infamouse Colenso's.

barry
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90th

90th

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A witness to Coghill & Melville cutting thier way through the Zulu's Empty
PostSubject: A witness to coghill & Melvill cutting their way through the zulu's   A witness to Coghill & Melville cutting thier way through the Zulu's EmptyTue Nov 08, 2011 5:32 am

Hi Barry.
An interesting thought !. Idea .
cheers 90th.
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Mr M. Cooper

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A witness to Coghill & Melville cutting thier way through the Zulu's Empty
PostSubject: A witness to Coghill & Melville   A witness to Coghill & Melville cutting thier way through the Zulu's EmptyTue Nov 08, 2011 3:55 pm

Well said tasker

A saying springs to mind which I believe was very popular during the first world war

and that was,

LIONS LED BY DONKEYS

I think that saying could also apply to the Zulu war in some cases.

Regards

Martin.
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tasker224

tasker224

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A witness to Coghill & Melville cutting thier way through the Zulu's Empty
PostSubject: Re: A witness to Coghill & Melville cutting thier way through the Zulu's   A witness to Coghill & Melville cutting thier way through the Zulu's EmptyTue Nov 08, 2011 6:54 pm

Well said everyone.
I feel that Chemie chose Durnford to be the scapegoat. Perfect candidate really. Not himself. Not a member of the 24th who had suffered enough. Possibly, as suggested his links to the Colensos. And dead.

Why would the Colenso link have irked Chelmie? Was it that they were against the war and sympathetic the the Zulus?
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ADMIN

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A witness to Coghill & Melville cutting thier way through the Zulu's Empty
PostSubject: Re: A witness to Coghill & Melville cutting thier way through the Zulu's   A witness to Coghill & Melville cutting thier way through the Zulu's EmptyTue Nov 08, 2011 7:12 pm

Quote :
Why would the Colenso link have irked Chelmie? Was it that they were against the war and sympathetic the the Zulus?

England was against the Zulu War. But!!

"Lord Chelmsford invaded Zululand without the knowledge of the British Government in the hope that he could Capture Cetshwayo, the Zulu King, before London discovered that, hostilities had begun."
 
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barry

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A witness to Coghill & Melville cutting thier way through the Zulu's Empty
PostSubject: The Colenso's   A witness to Coghill & Melville cutting thier way through the Zulu's EmptyTue Nov 08, 2011 7:15 pm

Hi Tasker,

Right on. Bishop Colenso was the Bishop of Natal, very pro Zulu. Often being outspoken in his support of them and being extremely anti British. I am surprised that he was not charged before the courts of the time with his
subversive behaviour. Now, the good bishop had three adult spinster daughters , all of whom were as subversive as he was, and one of whom, I think Nell, was reputed to be having a tete-a-tete with the good Colonel prior to the battle. The Bishop's errant behaviour was daily newspaper headlines in Pietermaritzburg the capital of the colony and the Colonists hated him with a passion because they saw him as a political instigator and saw him as the sole cause of the Zulus being restless.

The Bishop was repeatedly warned by the authoritiess and his superiors about his lack of patriotism and subversive behaviour and was eventually defrocked and sent back to England. So, what better man to blame for all his troubles, than Anthony Durnford, who had been fraternising with the enemy,(the Colenso's) especially as he was not around anymore to defend his case.

Barry


Last edited by barry on Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:48 am; edited 1 time in total
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Chard1879

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A witness to Coghill & Melville cutting thier way through the Zulu's Empty
PostSubject: Re: A witness to Coghill & Melville cutting thier way through the Zulu's   A witness to Coghill & Melville cutting thier way through the Zulu's EmptyTue Nov 08, 2011 7:55 pm

Durnford was put in the wrong place at the wrong time and consequently he suffered his fate because of the fool in command at Isandlwana.
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Drummer Boy 14

Drummer Boy 14

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A witness to Coghill & Melville cutting thier way through the Zulu's Empty
PostSubject: Re: A witness to Coghill & Melville cutting thier way through the Zulu's   A witness to Coghill & Melville cutting thier way through the Zulu's EmptyTue Nov 08, 2011 8:08 pm

Chard1879 wrote:
Durnford was put in the wrong place at the wrong time and consequently he suffered his fate because of the fool in command at Isandlwana.

Chard1879,

Do you mean Pullien??

Cheers
DB14
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littlehand

littlehand

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A witness to Coghill & Melville cutting thier way through the Zulu's Empty
PostSubject: Re: A witness to Coghill & Melville cutting thier way through the Zulu's   A witness to Coghill & Melville cutting thier way through the Zulu's EmptyTue Nov 08, 2011 9:15 pm

DB14, Were there any others fools present other than the person you mention. Rolling Eyes
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Drummer Boy 14

Drummer Boy 14

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A witness to Coghill & Melville cutting thier way through the Zulu's Empty
PostSubject: Re: A witness to Coghill & Melville cutting thier way through the Zulu's   A witness to Coghill & Melville cutting thier way through the Zulu's EmptyTue Nov 08, 2011 9:18 pm

I thought he may have been talking about Chelsmford, but pharsed it badly.

Sorry


Cheers
DB14


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tasker224

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A witness to Coghill & Melville cutting thier way through the Zulu's Empty
PostSubject: Re: A witness to Coghill & Melville cutting thier way through the Zulu's   A witness to Coghill & Melville cutting thier way through the Zulu's EmptyWed Nov 09, 2011 7:01 pm

Thanks for the reply Barry. That is very clear.
DB14, i took Chard to mean the fool Chelmsford! I am not sure that the fool Pulleine was very proactive at all in any respect.
Notice CTSG is conspicuous by his absence.
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90th

90th

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A witness to Coghill & Melville cutting thier way through the Zulu's Empty
PostSubject: A witness to coghill & Melvill cutting their way through the zulu's   A witness to Coghill & Melville cutting thier way through the Zulu's EmptyThu Nov 10, 2011 4:59 am

Hi Tasker.
In regard to Ctsg ................. '' He'll be back ! '' . Shocked .
cheers 90th. Idea
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littlehand

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A witness to Coghill & Melville cutting thier way through the Zulu's Empty
PostSubject: Re: A witness to Coghill & Melville cutting thier way through the Zulu's   A witness to Coghill & Melville cutting thier way through the Zulu's EmptyThu Nov 10, 2011 3:51 pm

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barry

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A witness to Coghill & Melville cutting thier way through the Zulu's Empty
PostSubject: Possible court marshalling of Chelmsford   A witness to Coghill & Melville cutting thier way through the Zulu's EmptyFri Nov 11, 2011 4:15 am

Hi Littlehand,
Hear, hear, a good find Littlehand.
At least someone in the British Government wasn't going to be conned by all the blah, the lies, and the monstrous cover up.

barry
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A witness to Coghill & Melville cutting thier way through the Zulu's Empty
PostSubject: Re: A witness to Coghill & Melville cutting thier way through the Zulu's   A witness to Coghill & Melville cutting thier way through the Zulu's Empty

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