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The missing five hours.

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 The missing five hours.

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ymob

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PostSubject: Re: The missing five hours.    Fri Sep 18, 2015 12:56 pm

"The two Matyana" as Chelmsford called them.... No
Thank you very much Mr Whybra.
The author wrote also in his thesis (p.9): "
(...) "See UCT, BC 67 (I.E: Dr K. Campbell Papers), Report by Sir William Beaumont, Isandhlwana could have been averted. Fateful message that was never delivered".

You are right of course.


Ian Knight in "Zulu Rising" (from memory in the chapter "The King's day"/ first page ) gave an another analysis than the author of the thesis about the information given by Woodroffe (i don't have actually the book at hand).
About the "timing", Knight wrote that Beaumont received information from Woodroffe in the evening of the 21 January and sent a special messenger to RD with the mission to find LC.
Knight is less "tragic" than the author of the thesis about the information...
From memory again, it's also the case with Lock and Quantrill in "Zulu Victory" (Comment about Bengough / Beaumont).
As you wrote, I have "unwittingly put together two pieces of evidence which actually don't align".
Sorry.
Cheers
Frédéric
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Julian Whybra



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PostSubject: Re: The missing five hours.    Fri Sep 18, 2015 1:02 pm

Frederic
It's all right.  It's easy to do especially with two persons named Matshana involved significantly in the same event on the same day and Beaumont doesn't say which he's referring to.
I could have been worse - they might have been called 'Smith' or 'Lebrun'!
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PostSubject: Re: The missing five hours.    Fri Sep 18, 2015 1:38 pm

I'll not be flogged today... Very Happy
Merci encore.
Frédéric
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90th

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PostSubject: The missing 5 hours    Fri Sep 18, 2015 2:36 pm

Bonjour Frederic
If not today , possibly tomorrow mon ami ? Joker Joker Joker
90th
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PostSubject: Re: The missing five hours.    Fri Sep 18, 2015 2:52 pm

Then there's always the guillotine...
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PostSubject: Re: The missing five hours.    Fri Sep 18, 2015 4:12 pm

Mr Whybra,
Fortunately for me, the "death penalty" (and therefore the guillotine) was abolished in France in 1981  
Unfortunately, it means that the death penalty was also abolished for my anglo-saxons "friends"....
Gary,
Tomorrow, I will not send message on the forum: this will prevent me from writing... bullshit (and thus suffer the whip!).

Amitiés.

Frédéric
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PostSubject: Re: The missing five hours.    Fri Sep 18, 2015 4:39 pm

Frederic
Once the Paris mob - the sans culottes - gets hold of us, there's no telling what they'd do. I learnt a long time ago NOT to turn right at the top of the steps up to Montmartre!
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PostSubject: Re: The missing five hours.    Thu Oct 01, 2015 9:37 pm

Frank Allewell wrote:
John
My only problem with a pre planned attack is: Who amongst the Zulu high command would have the guts to openly defy Cetswayo? His orders were not to attack without first consulting.
So to deliberately go against the orders of a man who would have no hesitation about hammering very sharp wooden poles up your rear end and enjoy watching you squirm a tad........... plus of course he had some other interesting ways of amusing himself.

Cheers

"Zulu! The battle for Rorke's Drift 1879"("Tempus" / 2005) par Edmund Yorke:
p. 196: "One report from a Zulu witness  printed in the Natal Colonist and Mercury even claimed that some of the Rorke's Drift Zulu commanders had been put to death for 'attacking in the open'". note 31

Note 31 page 228: "Lock and Quantrill "Red Book" p. 102 See also Laband "Kingdom and Colony" p.110

The indications given for Laband and Lock are unfortunately wrong.
Does anyone knows the source of this (alleged) Zulu testimony? Is it authentic?

Cheers

Frédéric
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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: The missing five hours.    Fri Oct 02, 2015 10:24 am

Hi Frederic
I checked back on that Edmund York quote and cant find anything to back it up. In James Stuart there is a verbatim report of when the indunas returned to Ondini, no mention of any one being put to death. Even though the Indunas were blamed for the carnage.

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PostSubject: Re: The missing five hours.    Fri Oct 02, 2015 10:26 am

I know of no such incident. Yorke is simply recording the newspaper report of a wild rumour. It doesn't make it a fact.
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PostSubject: Re: The missing five hours.    Fri Oct 02, 2015 10:39 am

The account of the impi return and the induna meeting with Cetshwayo is in JS volume 4 pp147 and is by Mshayankomo. No mention of any retribution.

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PostSubject: Re: The missing five hours.    Fri Oct 02, 2015 10:46 am

Indeed it seems to be a wild rumor..
I've never read anything like this statement.
But i wanted to be sure by reading the newspapers.
With luck the author of the information is maybe cited (a border agent, an officer...)
Unfortunately, I have no acces to the South African newspapers.
The site on line "The British library newspapers library" seems to have only British newspapers.

Cheers
Frédéric

I.E: Mr Whybra and Frank thank you for your answers.
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PostSubject: Re: The missing five hours.    Fri Oct 02, 2015 11:07 am

I also searched in the database of Australian and New Zealander newspapers but they mainly publish articles previously published in British newspapers and not from South African newspapers.
Cheers
Frédéric
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PostSubject: Re: The missing five hours.    Fri Oct 02, 2015 12:02 pm

Answer given today by the team of The British newspaper archive:

"We only hold Newspapers for Britain therefore we do not have newspapers for South Africa.

You may want to try a general internet search to find more information.


With kind regards,"


Y F
The British Newspaper Archive Support Team
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