Memorial to men of the 2nd Btn 24th Regiment

Well said Martin. Thanks to Bill Cainan for his valuable time in contributing and also to everyone else who has posted helpful and original thoughts and comments.
I think we all know each other's views by now and that no one is going to change their minds over certain minor points, so perhaps a line really can be drawn under this long running debate/argument?!?!
Obviously, points of FACT may arise in the future. For example, there are still a number of new members who join up thinking that the 24th in 1879 were titled the SWB and not the 2nd Warwickshires, so will need to be corrected and I am sure Martin will beat most people in doing that!
However, I do hope that derogatory, unfounded and disrespectful theories regarding Sir Stanley Baker, the, great, great, British film maker which are unfounded in fact and disrespectful, will be put out to grass. No factual evidence.
Nationalities of the combatants, as we have seen are too difficult to establish, and it has proved impossible even to define what the word "nationality" means. Hence it is unarguable!
We will never know for certain or be able to prove what each combatant's nationality was, without actually asking them. Obviously, we can't. Like the other personal details (places of birth, addresses, service details, pay books and muster rolls) of the vast majority of the brave men of the 24th in Zululand in 1879, as anyone knows who has tried to research these lads, sadly and tragically, all that remains of them in history is their name and number.
We can be sure of this though. They all laughed, joked, fought, bled and died together bravely, British, Irish and some even from overseas. Each one a legendary name that will never be forgotten.

"The South Wales Borderers was an infantry regiment of the British Army. It first came into existence, as the 24th Regiment of Foot, in 1689, but was not called the South Wales Borderers until 1881. The regiment served in a great many conflicts, including the American Revolutionary War, various conflicts in India, the Zulu War, Boer War, and World War I and II. The regiment was absorbed into the Royal Regiment of Wales in 1969.

24th Regiment of Foot
Soldier of 24th Regiment of Foot A.D. 1742
Plaque 24th Regiment of Foot in Quebec, CanadaThe regiment was formed as Sir Edward Dering's Regiment of Foot in 1689, becoming known, like other regiments, by the names of its subsequent colonels. It became the 24th Regiment of Foot in 1751, having been deemed 24th in the infantry order of precedence since 1747. In 1782 it became the 24th (The 2nd Warwickshire) Regiment of Foot. The 1st Warwickshires were the 6th (1st Warwickshire) Regiment of Foot.

In 1741, during the War of Jenkin's Ear, the regiment was part of the amphibious expedition to the Caribbean and participated in the disastrous British defeat at the battle of Cartagena de Indias.

In 1756, during the Seven Years War, the regiment was part of the garrison on Minorca and surrendered to the French on June 28.

In 1758, during the Seven Years War, the regiment was part of the amphibious expedition against, or descent on, the coast of France and participated in the disastrous British defeat at the battle of Saint Cast.

In 1776 the regiment was sent to Quebec where it subsequently fought American rebels who had invaded the province during their War of Independence. The regiment was part of the 5,000 British and Hessian force, under the command of Gen. John Burgoyne, that surrendered to the American rebels in the 1777 Saratoga Campaign and remained imprisoned until 1783.

In 1804 a 2nd Battalion was raised but its life was relatively short when it was disbanded in 1814, having seen service in the Peninsular War.

In 1810 the vast majority of the 1st Battalion was captured at sea by the French; they were released the following year. They had been on the East Indiamen Astell, Ceylon and Windham when a French frigate squadron captured the last two at the Action of 3 July 1810 near the Comoros Islands.

In 1814 the 1st Battalion took part in The Gurkha War, which saw the British and the Gurkhas gain mutual respect. After the war, the British began recruiting Gurkhas,who became part of the British Indian Army. When India became independent in 1947, four Gurkha regiments transferred to the British Army.

On 23 July 1829, after a brief period in Lancashire preparing for their third trip to North America, the 1st Battalion departed Manchester by canal boat arriving at Paddington four days later. During the tedious nine weeks crossing the Atlantic, the Regiment's Colonel, Sir David Baird died.

In October 1829 the Regiment began a twelve year sojourn in Upper and Lower Canada. It participated in the suppression of an insurgency in the valley of the Richelieu River at the end of 1837 and the suppression of the Rebellion of 1838 in the Montreal area.

When ordered home to Britain in June 1841 it left almost 200 men behind as voluntary reinforcements for other regiments in Canada. This was in addition to hundreds of men who had deserted in the previous twelve years... 111 deserters in the years 1837 and 1838 alone.[1]

[edit] Second Sikh War and Indian MutinyThe regiment was back on the Indian subcontinent in 1846 where it took part in the Second Sikh War. At the Battle of Chillianwala, due to mismanagement by senior officers, the regiment suffered over 50 per cent casualties. The Queen's colours were lost (although the Sikhs never claimed to have captured them, so they were probably destroyed, or buried with those who had carried them.)

The regiment remained in India. In 1857, on the outbreak of the Indian Mutiny, it was part of the garrison of the Punjab. It took part in the disarming of several units of the Bengal Army of the British East India Company and the pursuit of escaped mutineers, but was not involved in the major engagements of the subsequent war.

In 1858 the 2nd Battalion was re-formed at Sheffield.

In 1860 the 2nd Battalion was sent to the Mauritius where it spent 5 years, after which it left for Burma and then to the Andaman Islands in 1867. Two years later it was based on the Indian mainland. It returned home in 1872 and would remain there until war broke out in Southern Africa in 1878.

In 1866 the 1st Battalion was sent to Malta and then, remaining in the Mediterranean, moved to Gibraltar in 1872.

[edit] Zulu War[edit] IsandlhwanaIn 1875 the 1st Battalion arrived in Southern Africa and subsequently saw service, along with the 2nd Battalion, in the 9th Xhosa War in 1878.

In 1879 both battalions took part in the Zulu War, begun after a British invasion of Zululand, ruled by Cetshwayo. The 24th Foot took part in the crossing of the Buffalo River on 11 January, entering Zululand. The first engagement (and the most disastrous for the British) came at Isandhlwana. The British had pitched camp at Isandhlwana and not established any fortifications due to the sheer size of the force, the hard ground and a shortage of entrenching tools. The 24th Foot provided most of the British force and when the overall commander, Lord Chelmsford, split his forces on 22 January to search for the Zulus, the 1st Battalion (5 companies) and a company of the 2nd Battalion were left behind to guard the camp, under the command of Lieutenant-Colonel Henry Pulleine (CO of the 1/24th Foot).

The Zulus, 22,000 strong, attacked the camp and their sheer numbers overwhelmed the British. During the battle Lieutenant-Colonel Pulleine ordered Lieutenants Coghill and Melvill to save the Queen's Colour—the Regimental Colour was located at Helpmakaar with G Company. The two Lieutenants attempted to escape by crossing the Buffalo River where the Colour fell and was lost downstream, later being recovered. Both officers were killed. At this time the Victoria Cross (VC) was not awarded posthumously. This changed in the early 1900s when both Lieutenants were awarded posthumous Victoria Crosses for their bravery. The 2nd Battalion lost both its Colours at Isandhlwana though parts of the Colours—the crown, the pike and a colour case—were retrieved and trooped when the battalion was presented with new Colours in 1880.

The 24th had performed with distinction during the battle. The last survivors made their way to the foot of a mountain where they fought until they expended all their ammunition and were killed. The 24th Foot suffered 540 dead, including the 1st Battalion's commanding officer.

[edit] Rorke's Drift
The overwhelming Zulu attack on Rorke's Drift.After the battle, some 4,000 to 5,000 Zulus headed for Rorke's Drift, a small missionary post garrisoned by a company of the 2/24th Foot, native levies and others under the command of Lieutenant Chard, Royal Engineers, the most senior officer of the 24th present being Lieutenant Gonville Bromhead. Two Boer cavalry officers, Lieutenants Adendorff and Vane, arrived to inform the garrison of the defeat at Isandhlwana. The Acting Assistant Commissary James Langley Dalton persuaded Bromhead and Chard to stay and the small garrison frantically prepared rudimentary fortifications.

The Zulus first attacked at 4:30 pm. Throughout the day the garrison was attacked from all sides, including rifle fire from the heights above the garrison, and bitter hand-to-hand fighting often ensued. At one point the Zulus entered the hospital, which was stoutly defended by the wounded inside until it was set alight and eventually burnt down. The battle raged on into the early hours of 23 January but by dawn the Zulu Army had withdrawn. Lord Chelmsford and a column of British troops arrived soon afterwards. The garrison had suffered 15 killed during the battle (two died later) and 11 defenders were awarded the Victoria Cross for their distinguished defence of the post, 7 going to soldiers of the 24th Foot.

The stand at Rorke's Drift was immortalised in the 1964 movie Zulu.

[edit] Garrison Duties and Boer WarAfter the Cardwell-Childers Reforms of the British Armed Forces, the 24th Foot became the South Wales Borderers on 1 July 1881. The regiment's regimental depot had been moved to Brecon in Wales in 1873 and this, understandably, led to the regiment having close links with South Wales. The South Wales Borderers became the county regiment of Brecknockshire, Cardiganshire, Monmouthshire, Montgomeryshire, and Radnorshire.

1st Battalion

In 1893 the 1st Battalion arrived in Egypt and after a two-year stay there moved to Gibraltar. The battalion moved back to the east when it joined the British garrison in India in 1897. As with most British battalions posted to India, it was a lengthy stay, not leaving until 1910. It was based in Britain when the First World War began.

2nd Battalion

In 1880 the 2nd Battalion, after a brief stay in Gibraltar where they were presented with new Colours, arrived in India.

In 1886 the 2nd Battalion took part in the Third Burmese War that culminated in the annexation of Upper Burma by the British Empire, formally ending Burmese independence. It returned home in 1892.

The 2nd Battalion arrived in Cape Colony in 1900 to take part in the Boer War that had begun in 1899. The Regiment, additionally, had a number of companies from its Volunteer battalions sent to South Africa. The Boer War ended in 1902.

In 1910 the 2nd Battalion returned to a more peaceful South Africa. It was sent to the Far East in 1912, based in the British-controlled part of Tientsin in China where it remained until the outbreak of World War I.

[edit] First World War[edit] Western FrontThe 1st Battalion was part of the original British Expeditionary Force (BEF) that was sent to France shortly after war was declared.

In March 1916 the 2nd Battalion arrived into the carnage of the Western Front in France.

Welsh poet and language activist Saunders Lewis served in the South Wales Borderers during Wold War I.

[edit] Middle East and Other TheatresThe 2nd Battalion provided the only British contribution, a symbolic one, to the Japanese invasion of Tsingtao -- a German naval base in China that was the base of the East Asiatic Squadron. Shortly after the capture of Tsingtao, the battalion arrived in Hong Kong and then back home in January 1915.

As part of the 29th Division, the battalion took part in the Dardanelles Campaign, landing at S Beach, Cape Helles on 25 April 1915. Unlike other beaches, the 2nd South Wales Borderers, commanded by Lieutenant-Colonel H.G. Casson, met little opposition and the landing, supported by the battleship HMS Cornwallis, was completed by 7:30am.

[edit] Inter-War1st Battalion

The end of war gave the 1st South Wales Borderers no respite. The battalion moved to Dunshaughlin in 1919 where it was part of the British Army during the Irish War of Independence. They were involved in operations against Michael Collins and the Irish Republican Army. After the Anglo-Irish Treaty established the Irish Free State, the Battalion was evacuated.

In 1928 the 1st Battalion arrived in Egypt where they remained until they were posted to Hong Kong in 1930. In 1934 the 1st Battalion was, once more, posted to India, based in Rawalpindi.

The battalion was sent, for a brief time, to Iraq in 1937, a rare deployment for a British Army unit, Iraq being under Royal Air Force administration. It returned to India the following year where it took part in operations against hostile tribes in the volatile North-West Frontier. It was still in India when World War II began in 1939.

2nd Battalion

In 1919 the 2nd Battalion arrived at Barrackpore, India. It remained there, based in a variety of places, for many years, until it was posted to Aden (now part of the Yemen) in 1927 where it remained until returning to Britain in 1929.

The battalion was back in the Middle East in 1936 when it was sent to Palestine to assist in quelling a rebellion by Arabs. The battalion left in December, moving Northern Ireland. It was still based in the UK when World War II began.

[edit] Second World War[edit] North-West EuropeThe 2nd Battalion, as part of 24th Guards Brigade (Rupertforce), took part in the Norwegian campaign, fighting the Nazi German invaders.

In 1944 the 2nd Battalion had the distinction of being the only Welsh battalion to take part in the Normandy Landings landing under command of 50th (Northumbrian) Infantry Division. It was under command of 7th Armoured Division for a few days in June 1944, reverting to 50th (Northumbrian Division). In August 1944 it was briefly under command of 59th (Staffordshire) Division and on August 20 joined 49th Infantry Division. It ended its war in Germany, and remained there, as part of the occupation forces, until 1948 when it returned home.

[edit] Africa and the Middle EastThe 1st Battalion, as part of the Indian 10th Infantry Division, was sent to Iraq to quell a German-inspired uprising in Iraq. The battalion saw subsequent service in Iran.

The 1st Battalion sustained enormous casualties in Libya near Tobruk when they lost around 500 officers and men captured or killed during a general retreat. The battalion found itself cut off when the German forces outflanked them, the commanding officer, Lt. Col. F.R.G. Matthews, decided to attempt to escape around the enemy and break through to British lines. It turned into a disaster with only four officers and around one hundred men reaching Sollum. To the surprise of the survivors the battalion was ordered to disband in Cyprus and the remnants of the battalion were transferred, with the exception of a cadre that returned to the UK, to the 1st Battalion, The King's Own Royal Regiment (Lancaster). A few months later the battalion was re-formed from the cadre and the 4th Battalion, The Monmouthshire Regiment though it would remain in the United Kingdom for the duration of the war".

The Cardwell Reforms: pre 1881 and post 1881 infantry unit titles

The first table shows the pre 1881 infantry unit titles and the titles of the post 1881 infantry units they became: The second table shows the post 1881 infatry unit titles and the titles of the infantry units they were formed from.

Pre 1881
Post 1881

1st The Royal Scots Regiment
1st and 2nd Battalions, The Royal Scots (Lothian Regiment)

2nd (The Queen's Royal) Regiment of Foot
1st and 2nd Battalions, The Queen's (Royal West Surrey Regiment)

3rd (The East Kent) Regiment of Foot
1st and 2nd Battalions, The Buffs (East Kent Regiment)

4th (The King's Own Royal) Regiment of Foot
1st and 2nd Battalions, The King's Own (Royal Lancaster Regiment)

5th Regiment of Foot (Northumberland Fusiliers)
1st and 2nd Battalions, The Northumberland Fusiliers

6th (Royal 1st Warwickshire) Regiment of Foot
1st and 2nd Battalions, The Royal Warwickshire Regiment

7th Regiment of Foot (Royal Fusiliers)
1st and 2nd Battalions, The Royal Fusiliers (City of London Regiment)

8th (The King's) Regiment of Foot
1st and 2nd Battalions, The King's Regiment (Liverpool)

9th (The East Norfolk) Regiment of Foot
1st and 2nd Battalions, The Norfolk Regiment

10th (The North Lincolnshire) Regiment of Foot
1st and 2nd Battalions, The Lincolnshire Regiment

11th (The North Devonshire) Regiment of Foot
1st and 2nd Battalions, The Devonshire Regiment

12th (The East Suffolk) Regiment of Foot
1st and 2nd Battalions, The Suffolk Regiment

13th (1st Somersetshire) (Prince Albert's Light Infantry) Regiment of Foot
1st and 2nd Battalions, Prince Albert's (Somersetshire Light Infantry)

14th (Buckinghamshire - The Prince of Wales's Own) Regiment of Foot
1st and 2nd Battalions, The Prince of Wales's Own (West Yorkshire Regiment)

15th (The Yorkshire East Riding) Regiment of Foot
1st and 2nd Battalions, The East Yorkshire Regiment

16th (The Bedfordshire) Regiment of Foot
1st and 2nd Battalions, The Bedfordshire Regiment

17th (The Leicestershire) Regiment of Foot
1st and 2nd Battalions, The Leicestershire Regiment

18th (The Royal Irish) Regiment of Foot
1st and 2nd Battalions, The Royal Irish Regiment

19th (The 1st Yorkshire North Riding - Princess of Wales's Own) Regiment of Foot
1st and 2nd Battalions, The Princess of Wales's Own (Yorkshire Regiment)

20th (The East Devonshire) Regiment of Foot
1st and 2nd Battalions, The Lancashire Fusiliers

21st (Royal Scots Fusiliers) Regiment of Foot
1st and 2nd Battalions, The Royal Scots Fusiliers

22nd (The Cheshire) Regiment of Foot
1st and 2nd Battalions, The Cheshire Regiment

23rd Regiment of Foot (Royal Welsh Fusiliers)
1st and 2nd Battalions, The Royal Welsh Fusiliers

24th (The 2nd Warwickshire) Regiment of Foot
1st and 2nd Battalions, The South Wales Borderers

25th (The York) Regiment of Foot (King's Own Borderers)
1st and 2nd Battalions, The King's Own Borderers

26th (The Cameronian) Regiment of Foot
1st Battalion, The Cameronians (Scottish Rifles)

27th (Inniskilling) Regiment of Foot
1st Battalion, The Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers

28th (The North Gloucestershire) Regiment of Foot
1st Battalion, The Gloucestershire Regiment

29th (The Worcestershire) Regiment of Foot
1st Battalion, The Worcestershire Regiment

30th (The Cambridgeshire) Regiment of Foot
1st Battalion, The East Lancashire Regiment

31st (The Huntingdonshire) Regiment of Foot
1st Battalion, The East Surrey Regiment

32nd (The Cornwall) Regiment Foot (Light Infantry)
1st Battalion, The Duke of Cornwall's Light Infantry

33rd (The Duke of Wellington's) Regiment of Foot
1st Battalion, The Duke of Wellington's (West Riding Regiment)

34th (The Cumberland) Regiment of Foot
1st Battalion, The Border Regiment

35th (Royal Sussex) Regiment of Foot
1st Battalion, The Royal Sussex Regiment

36th (The Herefordshire) Regiment of Foot
2nd Battalion, The Worcestershire Regiment

37th (The North Hampshire) Regiment of Foot
1st Battalion, The Hampshire Regiment

38th (The 1st Staffordshire) Regiment of Foot
1st Battalion, The South Staffordshire Regiment

39th (The Dorsetshire) Regiment of Foot
1st Battalion, The Dorsetshire Regiment

40th (The 2nd Somersetshire) Regiment of Foot
1st Battalion, The Prince of Wales's Volunteers Regiment (South Lancashire Regiment)

41st (The Welsh) Regiment of Foot
1st Battalion, The Welsh Regiment

42nd (Royal Highland) Regiment of Foot, The Black Watch
1st Battalion, The Black Watch (Royal Highlanders)

43rd (Monmouthshire) Regiment of Foot (Light Infantry)
2nd Battalion, The Oxfordshire Light Infantry

44th (The East Essex) Regiment of Foot
1st Battalion, The Essex Regiment

45th (Nottinghamshire) (Sherwood Foresters) Regiment of Foot
1st Battalion, The Sherwood Foresters (Derbyshire Regiment)

46th (The South Devonshire) Regiment of Foot
2nd Battalion, The Duke of Cornwall's Light Infantry

47th (The Lancashire) Regiment of Foot
1st Battalion, The Loyal North Lancashire Regiment

48th (The Northamptonshire) Regiment of Foot
1st Battalion, The Northamptonshire Regiment

49th (Princess Charlotte of Wales's) (or The Hertfordshire) Regiment of Foot
1st Battalion, The Princess Charlotte of Wales's (Berkshire Regiment)

50th (The Queen's Own) Regiment of Foot
1st Battalion, The Queen's Own (Royal West Kent Regiment)

51st (The 2nd Yorkshire West Riding) or The King's Own Light Infantry Regiment
1st Battalion, The King's Own Light Infantry (South Yorkshire Regiment)

52nd (Oxfordshire) Regiment of Foot (Light Infantry)
1st Battalion, The Oxfordshire Light Infantry

53rd (The Shropshire) Regiment of Foot
1st Battalion, The King's Light Infantry (Shropshire Regiment)

54th (The West Norfolk) Regiment of Foot
2nd Battalion, The Dorsetshire Regiment

55th (The Westmoreland) Regiment of Foot
2nd Battalion, The Border Regiment

56th (The West Essex) Regiment of Foot
2nd Battalion, The Essex Regiment

57th (The West Middlesex) Regiment of Foot
1st Battalion, The Duke of Cambridge's Own (Middlesex Regiment)

58th (The Rutlandshire) Regiment of Foot
2nd Battalion, The Northamptonshire Regiment

59th (2nd Nottinghamshire) Regiment of Foot
2nd Battalion, The East Lancashire Regiment

60th (The King's Royal Rifle Corps) Regiment of Foot
1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th Battalions, The King's Royal Rifle Corps

61st (The South Gloucestershire) Regiment of Foot
2nd Battalion, The Gloucestershire Regiment

62nd (The Wiltshire) Regiment of Foot
1st Battalion, The Duke of Edinburgh's (Wiltshire Regiment)

63rd (The West Suffolk) Regiment of Foot
1st Battalion, The Manchester Regiment

64th (2nd Staffordshire) Regiment of Foot
1st Battalion, The Prince of Wales's (North Staffordshire Regiment)

65th (The 2nd Yorkshire, North Riding) Regiment of Foot
1st Battalion, The York and Lancaster Regiment

66th (The Berkshire) Regiment of Foot
2nd Battalion, The Princess Charlotte of Wales's (Berkshire Regiment)

67th (The South Hampshire) Regiment of Foot
2nd Battalion, The Hampshire Regiment

68th (Durham) Regiment of Foot (Light Infantry)
1st Battalion, The Durham Light Infantry

69th (The South Lincolnshire) Regiment of Foot
2nd Battalion, The Welsh Regiment

70th (The Surrey) Regiment of Foot
2nd Battalion, The East Surrey Regiment

71st (Highland) Regiment of Foot (Light Infantry)
1st Battalion, The Highland Light Infantry

72nd (or Duke of Albany's Own Highlanders) Regiment of Foot
1st Battalion, Seaforth Highlanders (Ross-shire Buffs)

73rd (Perthshire) Regiment of Foot
2nd Battalion, The Black Watch (Royal Highlanders)

74th (Highland) Regiment of Foot
2nd Battalion, The Highland Light Infantry

75th (Stirlingshire) Regiment of Foot
1st Battalion, The Gordon Highlanders

76th Regiment of Foot
2nd Battalion, The Duke of Wellington's (West Riding Regiment)

77th (The East Middlesex) Regiment of Foot (The Duke of Cambridge's Own)
2nd Battalion, The Duke of Cambridge's Own (Middlesex Regiment)

78th (Highlanders) Regiment of Foot (or The Ross-shire Buffs)
2nd Battalion, Seaforth Highlanders (Ross-shire Buffs)

79th (The Queen's Own Cameron Highlanders) Regiment of Foot
1st Battalion, The Queen's Own Cameron Highlanders

80th Regiment of Foot (Staffordshire Volunteers)
2nd Battalion, The South Staffordshire Regiment

81st Regiment of Foot (Loyal Lincoln Volunteers)
2nd Battalion, The Loyal North Lancashire Regiment

82nd Regiment of Foot (Prince of Wales's Volunteers)
2nd Battalion, The Prince of Wales's Volunteers Regiment (South Lancashire Regiment)

83rd (County of Dublin) Regiment of Foot
1st Battalion, The Royal Irish Rifles

84th (York and Lancaster) Regiment of Foot
2nd Battalion, The York and Lancaster Regiment

85th, or The King's Regiment of Light Infantry (Bucks Volunteers)
2nd Battalion, The King's Light Infantry (Shropshire Regiment)

86th (Royal County Down) Regiment of Foot
2nd Battalion, The Royal Irish Rifles

87th (or Royal Irish Fusiliers) Regiment of Foot
1st Battalion, The Princess Victoria's (Royal Irish Fusiliers)

88th Regiment of Foot (Connaught Rangers)
1st Battalion, The Connaught Rangers

89th (The Princess Victoria's) Regiment of Foot
2nd Battalion, The Princess Victoria's (Royal Irish Fusiliers)

90th Regiment of Foot (Perthshire Volunteers) (Light Infantry)
2nd Battalion, The Cameronians (Scottish Rifles)

91st (Princess Louise's Argyllshire Highlanders) Regiment of Foot
1st Battalion, Princess Louise's (Sutherland and Argyll Highlanders)

92nd (Gordon Highlanders) Regiment of Foot
2nd Battalion, The Gordon Highlanders

93rd (Sutherland Highlanders) Regiment of Foot
2nd Battalion, Princess Louise's (Sutherland and Argyll Highlanders)

94th Regiment of Foot
2nd Battalion, The Connaught Rangers

95th (Derbyshire) Regiment of Foot
2nd Battalion, The Sherwood Foresters (Derbyshire Regiment)

96th Regiment of Foot
2nd Battalion, The Manchester Regiment

97th (The Earl of Ulster's) Regiment of Foot
2nd Battalion, The Queen's Own (Royal West Kent Regiment)

98th (The Prince of Wales's) Regiment of Foot
2nd Battalion, The Prince of Wales's (North Staffordshire Regiment)

99th Duke of Edinburgh's (Lanarkshire) Regiment of Foot
2nd Battalion, The Duke of Edinburgh's (Wiltshire Regiment)

100th (or Prince of Wales's Royal Canadian) Regiment of Foot
1st Battalion, The Prince of Wales's Leinster Regiment (Royal Canadians)

101st Regiment of Foot (Royal Bengal Fusiliers)
1st Battalion, The Royal Munster Fusiliers

102nd Regiment of Foot (Royal Madras Fusiliers)
1st Battalion, The Royal Dublin Fusiliers

103rd Regiment of Foot (Royal Bombay Fusiliers)
2nd Battalion, The Royal Dublin Fusiliers

104th Regiment of Foot (Bengal Fusiliers)
2nd Battalion, The Royal Munster Fusiliers

105th Regiment of Foot (Madras Light Infantry)
2nd Battalion, The King's Own Light Infantry (South Yorkshire Regiment)

106th Regiment of Foot (Bombay Light Infantry)
2nd Battalion, The Durham Light Infantry

107th Regiment of Foot (Bengal Light Infantry)
2nd Battalion, The Royal Sussex Regiment

108th Regiment of Foot (Madras Infantry)
2nd Battalion, The Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers

109th Regiment of Foot (Bombay Infantry)
2nd Battalion, The Prince of Wales's Leinster Regiment (Royal Canadians)

The Prince Consort's Own Rifle Brigade
1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th Battalions, The Prince Consort's Own (Rifle Brigade)

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Post 1881
Pre 1881

1st and 2nd Battalions, The Royal Scots (Lothian Regiment) 1st The Royal Scots Regiment
1st and 2nd Battalions, The Queen's (Royal West Surrey Regiment) 2nd (The Queen's Royal) Regiment of Foot
1st and 2nd Battalions, The Buffs (East Kent Regiment) 3rd (The East Kent) Regiment of Foot
1st and 2nd Battalions, The King's Own (Royal Lancaster Regiment) 4th (The King's Own Royal) Regiment of Foot
1st and 2nd Battalions, The Northumberland Fusiliers 5th Regiment of Foot (Northumberland Fusiliers)
1st and 2nd Battalions, The Royal Warwickshire Regiment 6th (Royal 1st Warwickshire) Regiment of Foot
1st and 2nd Battalions, The Royal Fusiliers (City of London Regiment) 7th Regiment of Foot (Royal Fusiliers)
1st and 2nd Battalions, The King's Regiment (Liverpool) 8th (The King's) Regiment of Foot
1st and 2nd Battalions, The Norfolk Regiment 9th (The East Norfolk) Regiment of Foot
1st and 2nd Battalions, The Lincolnshire Regiment 10th (The North Lincolnshire) Regiment of Foot
1st and 2nd Battalions, The Devonshire Regiment 11th (The North Devonshire) Regiment of Foot
1st and 2nd Battalions, The Suffolk Regiment 12th (The East Suffolk) Regiment of Foot
1st and 2nd Battalions, Prince Albert's (Somersetshire Light Infantry) 13th (1st Somersetshire) (Prince Albert's Light Infantry) Regiment of Foot
1st and 2nd Battalions, The Prince of Wales's Own (West Yorkshire Regiment) 14th (Buckinghamshire - The Prince of Wales's Own) Regiment of Foot
1st and 2nd Battalions, The East Yorkshire Regiment 15th (The Yorkshire East Riding) Regiment of Foot
1st and 2nd Battalions, The Bedfordshire Regiment 16th (The Bedfordshire) Regiment of Foot
1st and 2nd Battalions, The Leicestershire Regiment 17th (The Leicestershire) Regiment of Foot
1st and 2nd Battalions, The Royal Irish Regiment 18th (The Royal Irish) Regiment of Foot
1st and 2nd Battalions, The Princess of Wales's Own (Yorkshire Regiment) 19th (The 1st Yorkshire North Riding - Princess of Wales's Own) Regiment of Foot
1st and 2nd Battalions, The Lancashire Fusiliers 20th (The East Devonshire) Regiment of Foot
1st and 2nd Battalions, The Royal Scots Fusiliers 21st (Royal Scots Fusiliers) Regiment of Foot
1st and 2nd Battalions, The Cheshire Regiment 22nd (The Cheshire) Regiment of Foot
1st and 2nd Battalions, The Royal Welsh Fusiliers 23rd Regiment of Foot (Royal Welsh Fusiliers)
1st and 2nd Battalions, The South Wales Borderers 24th (The 2nd Warwickshire) Regiment of Foot
1st and 2nd Battalions, The King's Own Borderers 25th (The York) Regiment of Foot (King's Own Borderers)
1st Battalion, The Cameronians (Scottish Rifles) 26th (The Cameronian) Regiment of Foot
2nd Battalion, The Cameronians (Scottish Rifles) 90th Regiment of Foot (Perthshire Volunteers) (Light Infantry)
1st Battalion, The Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers 27th (Inniskilling) Regiment of Foot
2nd Battalion, The Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers 108th Regiment of Foot (Madras Infantry)
1st Battalion, The Gloucestershire Regiment 28th (The North Gloucestershire) Regiment of Foot
2nd Battalion, The Gloucestershire Regiment 61st (The South Gloucestershire) Regiment of Foot
1st Battalion, The Worcestershire Regiment 29th (The Worcestershire) Regiment of Foot
2nd Battalion, The Worcestershire Regiment 36th (The Herefordshire) Regiment of Foot
1st Battalion, The East Lancashire Regiment 30th (The Cambridgeshire) Regiment of Foot
2nd Battalion, The East Lancashire Regiment 59th (2nd Nottinghamshire) Regiment of Foot
1st Battalion, The East Surrey Regiment 31st (The Huntingdonshire) Regiment of Foot
2nd Battalion, The East Surrey Regiment 70th (The Surrey) Regiment of Foot
1st Battalion, The Duke of Cornwall's Light Infantry 32nd (The Cornwall) Regiment Foot (Light Infantry)
2nd Battalion, The Duke of Cornwall's Light Infantry 46th (The South Devonshire) Regiment of Foot
1st Battalion, The Duke of Wellington's (West Riding Regiment) 33rd (The Duke of Wellington's) Regiment of Foot
2nd Battalion, The Duke of Wellington's (West Riding Regiment) 76th Regiment of Foot
1st Battalion, The Border Regiment 34th (The Cumberland) Regiment of Foot
2nd Battalion, The Border Regiment 55th (The Westmoreland) Regiment of Foot
1st Battalion, The Royal Sussex Regiment 35th (Royal Sussex) Regiment of Foot
2nd Battalion, The Royal Sussex Regiment 107th Regiment of Foot (Bengal Light Infantry)
1st Battalion, The Hampshire Regiment 37th (The North Hampshire) Regiment of Foot
2nd Battalion, The Hampshire Regiment 67th (The South Hampshire) Regiment of Foot
1st Battalion, The South Staffordshire Regiment 38th (The 1st Staffordshire) Regiment of Foot
2nd Battalion, The South Staffordshire Regiment 80th Regiment of Foot (Staffordshire Volunteers)
1st Battalion, The Dorsetshire Regiment 39th (The Dorsetshire) Regiment of Foot
2nd Battalion, The Dorsetshire Regiment 54th (The West Norfolk) Regiment of Foot
1st Battalion, The Prince of Wales's Volunteers Regiment (South Lancashire Regiment) 40th (The 2nd Somersetshire) Regiment of Foot
2nd Battalion, The Prince of Wales's Volunteers Regiment (South Lancashire Regiment) 82nd Regiment of Foot (Prince of Wales's Volunteers)
1st Battalion, The Welsh Regiment 41st (The Welsh) Regiment of Foot
2nd Battalion, The Welsh Regiment 69th (The South Lincolnshire) Regiment of Foot
1st Battalion, The Black Watch (Royal Highlanders) 42nd (Royal Highland) Regiment of Foot, The Black Watch
2nd Battalion, The Black Watch (Royal Highlanders) 73rd (Perthshire) Regiment of Foot
1st Battalion, The Oxfordshire Light Infantry 52nd (Oxfordshire) Regiment of Foot (Light Infantry)
2nd Battalion, The Oxfordshire Light Infantry 43rd (Monmouthshire) Regiment of Foot (Light Infantry)
1st Battalion, The Essex Regiment 44th (The East Essex) Regiment of Foot
2nd Battalion, The Essex Regiment 56th (The West Essex) Regiment of Foot
1st Battalion, The Sherwood Foresters (Derbyshire Regiment) 45th (Nottinghamshire) (Sherwood Foresters) Regiment of Foot
2nd Battalion, The Sherwood Foresters (Derbyshire Regiment) 95th (Derbyshire) Regiment of Foot
1st Battalion, The Loyal North Lancashire Regiment 47th (The Lancashire) Regiment of Foot
2nd Battalion, The Loyal North Lancashire Regiment 81st Regiment of Foot (Loyal Lincoln Volunteers)
1st Battalion, The Northamptonshire Regiment 48th (The Northamptonshire) Regiment of Foot
2nd Battalion, The Northamptonshire Regiment 58th (The Rutlandshire) Regiment of Foot
1st Battalion, The Princess Charlotte of Wales's (Berkshire Regiment) 49th (Princess Charlotte of Wales's) (or The Hertfordshire) Regiment of Foot
2nd Battalion, The Princess Charlotte of Wales's (Berkshire Regiment) 66th (The Berkshire) Regiment of Foot
1st Battalion, The Queen's Own (Royal West Kent Regiment) 50th (The Queen's Own) Regiment of Foot
2nd Battalion, The Queen's Own (Royal West Kent Regiment) 97th (The Earl of Ulster's) Regiment of Foot
1st Battalion, The King's Own Light Infantry (South Yorkshire Regiment) 51st (The 2nd Yorkshire West Riding) or The King's Own Light Infantry Regiment
2nd Battalion, The King's Own Light Infantry (South Yorkshire Regiment) 105th Regiment of Foot (Madras Light Infantry)
1st Battalion, The King's Light Infantry (Shropshire Regiment) 53rd (The Shropshire) Regiment of Foot
2nd Battalion, The King's Light Infantry (Shropshire Regiment) 85th, or The King's Regiment of Light Infantry (Bucks Volunteers)
1st Battalion, The Duke of Cambridge's Own (Middlesex Regiment) 57th (The West Middlesex) Regiment of Foot
2nd Battalion, The Duke of Cambridge's Own (Middlesex Regiment) 77th (The East Middlesex) Regiment of Foot (The Duke of Cambridge's Own)
1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th Battalions, The King's Royal Rifle Corps 60th (The King's Royal Rifle Corps) Regiment of Foot
1st Battalion, The Duke of Edinburgh's (Wiltshire Regiment) 62nd (The Wiltshire) Regiment of Foot
2nd Battalion, The Duke of Edinburgh's (Wiltshire Regiment) 99th Duke of Edinburgh's (Lanarkshire) Regiment of Foot
1st Battalion, The Manchester Regiment 63rd (The West Suffolk) Regiment of Foot
2nd Battalion, The Manchester Regiment 96th Regiment of Foot
1st Battalion, The Prince of Wales's (North Staffordshire Regiment) 64th (2nd Staffordshire) Regiment of Foot
2nd Battalion, The Prince of Wales's (North Staffordshire Regiment) 98th (The Prince of Wales's) Regiment of Foot
1st Battalion, The York and Lancaster Regiment 65th (The 2nd Yorkshire, North Riding) Regiment of Foot
2nd Battalion, The York and Lancaster Regiment 84th (York and Lancaster) Regiment of Foot
1st Battalion, The Durham Light Infantry 68th (Durham) Regiment of Foot (Light Infantry)
2nd Battalion, The Durham Light Infantry 106th Regiment of Foot (Bombay Light Infantry)
1st Battalion, The Highland Light Infantry 71st (Highland) Regiment of Foot (Light Infantry)
2nd Battalion, The Highland Light Infantry 74th (Highland) Regiment of Foot
1st Battalion, Seaforth Highlanders (Ross-shire Buffs) 72nd (or Duke of Albany's Own Highlanders) Regiment of Foot
2nd Battalion, Seaforth Highlanders (Ross-shire Buffs) 78th (Highlanders) Regiment of Foot (or The Ross-shire Buffs)
1st Battalion, The Gordon Highlanders 75th (Stirlingshire) Regiment of Foot
2nd Battalion, The Gordon Highlanders 92nd (Gordon Highlanders) Regiment of Foot
1st Battalion, The Queen's Own Cameron Highlanders 79th (The Queen's Own Cameron Highlanders) Regiment of Foot
1st Battalion, The Royal Irish Rifles 83rd (County of Dublin) Regiment of Foot
2nd Battalion, The Royal Irish Rifles 86th (Royal County Down) Regiment of Foot
1st Battalion, The Princess Victoria's (Royal Irish Fusiliers) 87th (or Royal Irish Fusiliers) Regiment of Foot
2nd Battalion, The Princess Victoria's (Royal Irish Fusiliers) 89th (The Princess Victoria's) Regiment of Foot
1st Battalion, The Connaught Rangers 88th Regiment of Foot (Connaught Rangers)
2nd Battalion, The Connaught Rangers 94th Regiment of Foot
1st Battalion, Princess Louise's (Sutherland and Argyll Highlanders) 91st (Princess Louise's Argyllshire Highlanders) Regiment of Foot
2nd Battalion, Princess Louise's (Sutherland and Argyll Highlanders) 93rd (Sutherland Highlanders) Regiment of Foot
1st Battalion, The Prince of Wales's Leinster Regiment (Royal Canadians) 100th (or Prince of Wales's Royal Canadian) Regiment of Foot
2nd Battalion, The Prince of Wales's Leinster Regiment (Royal Canadians) 109th Regiment of Foot (Bombay Infantry)
1st Battalion, The Royal Munster Fusiliers 101st Regiment of Foot (Royal Bengal Fusiliers)
2nd Battalion, The Royal Munster Fusiliers 104th Regiment of Foot (Bengal Fusiliers)
1st Battalion, The Royal Dublin Fusiliers 102nd Regiment of Foot (Royal Madras Fusiliers)
2nd Battalion, The Royal Dublin Fusiliers 103rd Regiment of Foot (Royal Bombay Fusiliers)
1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th Battalions, The Prince Consort's Own (Rifle Brigade) The Prince Consort's Own Rifle Brigade

Good post LH

Reading this, it would mean that reference to just 'the 24th' means the regiment between 1751-1782, and that anything after this date should read the 24th (2nd Warwickshire) Regiment, and then after July 1881 there should be no reference to numbers, ie; (24th), but only the new regimental name, as anything else would be wrong. Therefor any display of artifacts, or written notice, or indeed any mention of the regiment during the Anglo - Zulu War period should give the public the full title of the regiment, ie; the 24th (2nd Warwickshire) Regiment, and not just the 24th foot or regiment, as this would imply to mean the regiment pre 1782, and then of course after July 1881, only the new regiments names should follow with no numbers, ie; SWB, RRW, RW.

Very interesting post that LH, it does make me wonder how many articles, write ups, notices, adverts, artifacts, displays, etc, show the full and correct name of the regiment during the Anglo - Zulu war, not many I suppose. Suspect

Happen it's time for a browse on the net lol!

Martin, you are probably quite corrrect on that.
I reckon that most people write "24th" as a short hand way of writing "24th (2nd Warwickshire) Regiment" if referring to an event that regiment was involved in, in say 1879.
There is no intended attempt to mislead, I feel.

tasker, yes, I know what you mean. I did have a look on the net, and there are a lot of errors, some, as you say, with no attempt to mislead, whilst others seem rather dubious, and in some cases almost deliberate. I suppose that on discussion sites similar to this, people would just write 24th as a short hand way of the regiments full title, like you said. But what would be wrong though, are supposedly dedicated sites and other places that have displays and artifacts concerning the AZW, that avoid putting the full title of the 24th (2nd Warwickshire) regiment, and just put 24th foot/regiment, I think that would be deliberately avoiding giving the public the full title of the regiment, and therefor mislead them by hiding the fact that the 24th was called the 24th (2nd Warwickshire) regiment.

Posts: 669 Join date: 2010-07-02 Age: 32

Just to throw the spanner in the works (Martin) on Bromhead's head stone it reads.

"2nd Batts The South Wales Borderers 24th Regiment"

Martin dont get Mad

Posts: 1288 Join date: 2011-08-01 Age: 15

When he died that was what the regiment was called.

Posts: 669 Join date: 2010-07-02 Age: 32

Good point DB
But as he won his VC at the Battle Of Rorke's Drift. Should it not say South Wales Borderers 24th Regiment. formerly 24th 2nd Warwickshire regiment"

Posts: 1288 Join date: 2011-08-01 Age: 15

It was done by his fellow officers, it would have been expensive.

Posts: 669 Join date: 2010-07-02 Age: 32

So you agree but didn't happen because you say.

Quote:

it would have been expensive.

Posts: 669 Join date: 2010-07-02 Age: 32

i wonder why there is no mentioned of RD on his head stone. To expensive i suppose.

Do we know who was responsible for properly restoring Bromhead's grave to its current state? That was very good of them.

impi wrote:

i wonder why there is no mentioned of RD on his head stone. To expensive i suppose.

It's a gravestone, not a biography!

Posts: 490 Join date: 2010-04-12

Quote:

It's a gravestone, not a biography!

He's not asking for a biography. Just a reconition to acknowlebdge his part at RD. Just like nearly every other defender who took part.

Whilst John Chard's gravestone includes the inscription, "The Hero of Rorke's Drift", this would seem to be the exception, rather than the rule. The letters "V.C." after the deceased soldier's name is recognition in itself. To paraphrase another member of this forum, nuff said.
Having seen scores of WW1 and several other VC gravestones, with the exception of Chard's, I have yet to see another one where the specific action for which the VC was awarded, is referred to on the man's headstone.

Hi impi

Yes, I am afraid that this sort of thing happens. For instance, the SWB were never the 24th foot/regiment, as the regimental numbers were discontinued in July 1881, the last infantry regiment to have the numbers 24th foot/regiment in their name/title, were the 24th (2nd Warwickshire) regiment.

The name of his regiment when he won his V.C. was the 24th (2nd Warwickshire) regiment, and not the SWB, so really the 24th (2nd Warwickshire) regiment is the name that should have been on his memorial (after the letters V.C.), followed by, (later called the SWB).

But if this was arranged by his fellow officers, then maybe they were not thinking clearly, and they just put SWB, as this was the regiments name at the time of his death.

Martin. Salute

Posts: 490 Join date: 2010-04-12

Tasker suggest you look up some of the Grave Stones of the defenders on the forum. Hook would be a good one to start with.

http://www.1879zuluwar.com/t595-1373-pte-alfred-henry-hook-vc?highlight=Hook

Thanks Chard.
I make that 2.
Note however, that the memorial was erected by "admiring" civilians in 1906.

Martin, check the link that Chard posted re Hook's epitaph.

It too refers to him as being of the 2nd Btn, SWB.

Obviously, gravestones carry the current name of the regiment to which the man belonged. (If previous names were included, then it could be a very long list of former regimental names!)

http://www.rorkesdriftvc.com/vc/hitch_zoom.htm

Tasker

Yes, I saw that, but as you say, it was erected by 'admiring' civilians, so they would not know the in's and out's of it all. I should imagine that the proper way of doing this would be the mans name, followed by V.C. then the regiment that he won his V.C. with, and then the regiment that it became after the 1881 reforms.

viz.

Alfred Henry Hook, V.C.
24th (2nd Warwickshire) regiment, (later SWB)
Died March 12th 1905, aged 54
Erected by etc, etc.

I should imagine that there are many memorials and headstones that get things wrong, it is one of those things I'm afraid, but if the soldier is a V.C. winner, then I would say that the regiment in which he won his V.C. should be the first listed.

Hi all
Sacred Sir Stanley Baker, now full of people think the 24 th was a Welsh regiment

Cheers

Pascal

Martin, yes I agree.

Pascal, Bill Cainan and Julian Whybra have already stated that there never was and never has been, even today, a Welsh national regiment.
Even today, the Welsh Guards, the Royal Welsh Regiment etc etc are part of the BRITISH Army. As are the Scots - unless the Scots soon gain independence!

Hi Tasker224

But even in the Scottish regiments, there were guys who were not Scottish ... All British normally but some were committed under a false name ... ( no british )

Cheers

Pascal

Pascal

What tasker is saying is that all the regiments are part of the British Army. There are those that have Welsh or Scottish in their title, this is because many of them were first raised in those nations. There are, however, some regiments that were moved to different parts of Britain and later amalgamated with other regiments, and although some of those regiments have their roots in either England, Wales or Scotland, they are still all part of the British Army, and all British regiments.

It would be interesting to see what would happen to some of those regiments if say Scotland, England and Wales became independent from each other. Would the old 43rd (Monmouthshire) regiment go back home to the south Wales border, and the old 24th (2nd Warwickshire) regiment, and the old 69th (South Lincolnshire) regiment, (which was the old redesignated 2nd Battalion of the old 24th), come back home to England, and what would happen to the Scottish regiments that had been moved about, and also the Scottish border regiment? scratch

I think that there would be a few headaches for someone in government if this sort of thing happened, still, it would serve them right for moving the regiments about in the first place. lol!

Martin.

Hi Martin

Yes they only british regiment in the british army,the rest is litterature but

some men were committed under a false name in the british regiments ,because they are not british...

Cheers

Pascal

Hi Pascal

Yes, there were some men that gave false names, this was to avoid being traced by their (or the ladies) families. There are today many men that are in, say, the Scots Guards, but they themselves are not Scots, this is also true in the Irish and Welsh Guards, there are no 'English' Guards as such, the others being the Grenadier Guards and the Coldstream Guards.

The Guards regiments are, The Grenadier Guards, The Coldstream Guards, The Scots Guards, The Irish Guards, and The Welsh Guards.

Martin.

Posts: 490 Join date: 2010-04-12

And the "Gay Gordons"

Nice one Chard. lol!

» KORRA NATION - KORRA PREMIERE MARCH 24th UNLOCKED!!!
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Memorial to men of the 2nd Btn 24th Regiment

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