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Zulu Dawn Film Lt. Col. Pulleine: Lord Chelmsford assures us that there is no way the Zulu can get around us without our knowing. Col. Durnford: Zulu generals have a nasty habit of doing the unexpected. It might be wise to picket the hills.
 
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G Company 2/24th  ?? - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: G Company 2/24th ??   G Company 2/24th  ?? - Page 2 EmptyFri Feb 10, 2012 9:52 am

Bonjour Julian

After Mike Snook They Are:

In the 2/24 Battalion Guard Detail, a section x of A Coy (say 20-25 men).

As was a section of combat, it is necessarily with the company "G" for fighting... It's logical...

Cheers

Pascal
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Julian Whybra



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PostSubject: Re: G Company 2/24th ??   G Company 2/24th  ?? - Page 2 EmptyFri Feb 10, 2012 10:12 am

No, Pascal, the non-G coy men constituted 70-80 men - the equivalent of a company. i was talking about them as a composite coy.
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G Company 2/24th  ?? - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: G Company 2/24th ??   G Company 2/24th  ?? - Page 2 EmptyFri Feb 10, 2012 1:09 pm

And she fought where your composite coy.?

Commanded by whom?
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Julian Whybra



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PostSubject: Re: G Company 2/24th ??   G Company 2/24th  ?? - Page 2 EmptyFri Feb 10, 2012 1:49 pm

Between Wardell and Pope's coys. After Pope's move, it was between Wardell and Lonsdale's coys.
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G Company 2/24th  ?? - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: G Company 2/24th ??   G Company 2/24th  ?? - Page 2 EmptyFri Feb 10, 2012 2:31 pm

Commanded by Dyer scratch
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G Company 2/24th  ?? - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: G Company 2/24th ??   G Company 2/24th  ?? - Page 2 EmptyFri Feb 10, 2012 2:33 pm

So there are now seven companies for the 24 th at Isandhlwana scratch
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Julian Whybra



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PostSubject: Re: G Company 2/24th ??   G Company 2/24th  ?? - Page 2 EmptyFri Feb 10, 2012 3:28 pm

The seventh one being Dyer's composite coy of 2/24th.
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Drummer Boy 14

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PostSubject: Re: G Company 2/24th ??   G Company 2/24th  ?? - Page 2 EmptyFri Feb 10, 2012 3:34 pm

Julian Whybra wrote:
The seventh one being Dyer's composite coy of 2/24th.

Didn't he fall back and die with H Company ?
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PostSubject: Re: G Company 2/24th ??   G Company 2/24th  ?? - Page 2 EmptyFri Feb 10, 2012 3:36 pm

Exactly.
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Drummer Boy 14

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PostSubject: Re: G Company 2/24th ??   G Company 2/24th  ?? - Page 2 EmptyFri Feb 10, 2012 3:48 pm

H Company was around 80 strong, 20 died with Wolfe on the firing line and some 68 men, with some
other arms, died behind the 1/24th tents.

Surly there should be more bodies if H and a another 2/24th company fell back ?





Cheers
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PostSubject: Re: G Company 2/24th ??   G Company 2/24th  ?? - Page 2 EmptyFri Feb 10, 2012 3:56 pm

That's a good point but you must consider also that many men will have died en route to the last stand and that when Boast buried the bodies he collected them together to do it, so the cairns don't necessarily represent where men fell. Groups of men will have become separated too. If you add up all the so-called 'last stands' body counts, you don't reach the total number of 24th in camp. Anstey for example reached the Manzimnyama with about 40 men (the estimate comes from the number buried by Boast at the F coy cairn). Where are the rest of F coy buried?
Black found 70 or so men at the traditional H coy last stand, Wardell and Dyer among them. Where Wardell was, H coy was; where Dyer was, the composite 2/24th coy would have been.
Thoughts?
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PostSubject: Re: G Company 2/24th ??   G Company 2/24th  ?? - Page 2 EmptyFri Feb 10, 2012 4:31 pm

He found 68 bodies, including men from other arms, most likly RA or NMP. He found Wardle, Dyer and 2
other officers, one was probebly Akinson.




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PostSubject: Re: G Company 2/24th ??   G Company 2/24th  ?? - Page 2 EmptyFri Feb 10, 2012 4:33 pm

The other officer may have been Griffith.
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PostSubject: Re: G Company 2/24th ??   G Company 2/24th  ?? - Page 2 EmptyFri Feb 10, 2012 4:41 pm

Black thourght it was a Captain ?
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PostSubject: Re: G Company 2/24th ??   G Company 2/24th  ?? - Page 2 EmptyFri Feb 10, 2012 4:45 pm

He found 'Wardell, Dyer, a Captain and a subaltern unrecognisable' - who knows who they were, Atkinson, Griffith, neither of them?
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G Company 2/24th  ?? - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: G Company 2/24th ??   G Company 2/24th  ?? - Page 2 EmptyFri Feb 10, 2012 5:31 pm

The Zulus have they been able to move the bodies of the died soldiers before the return of the British army,any week after ?
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G Company 2/24th  ?? - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: G Company 2/24th ??   G Company 2/24th  ?? - Page 2 EmptyFri Feb 10, 2012 5:55 pm

Julian

Composite Company it's : 2 officers and 80 ORs ?

Adjt – Lt. Henry Dyer; Tpt Officer - Sub-Lt. Thomas Griffith;

• 1 x section of A Coy (say 25 ORs).

• 6 x company rear parties (left behind to watch tents and kits). Say 4 men per coy (or 1man per section) = 24 ORs

• Bandmaster Harry Bullard and 3 boy-bandsmen.(say 4 ORs).

• Pioneer section (Cpl and 8 others).

• Officer’s batmen and 17other miscellaneous rear details.

Cheers

Pascal
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Drummer Boy 14

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PostSubject: Re: G Company 2/24th ??   G Company 2/24th  ?? - Page 2 EmptyFri Feb 10, 2012 5:59 pm

Pascal MAHE wrote:
The Zulus have they been able to move the bodies of the died soldiers before the return of the British army,any week after ?

Why Suspect
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PostSubject: Re: G Company 2/24th ??   G Company 2/24th  ?? - Page 2 EmptyFri Feb 10, 2012 6:03 pm

Drummer Boy 14 wrote:
The Saddle is the low ground between the Mount of Isandlwana and the Stonny Koppie hill.
Nowhere near Pope's poisition.




Cheerss

Thanks for your patience. I have seen some good pics of the saddle, but is it N, S, E, or W of the mount?
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PostSubject: Re: G Company 2/24th ??   G Company 2/24th  ?? - Page 2 EmptyFri Feb 10, 2012 6:06 pm

The saddle is at the rear of the camp, its the place the fugitives fled across and were 70 men of the 24th rallied and died.

Don't know much more Salute



Cheers
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G Company 2/24th  ?? - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: G Company 2/24th ??   G Company 2/24th  ?? - Page 2 EmptySat Feb 11, 2012 6:45 am

Pascal:The Zulus have they been able to move the bodies of the died soldiers before the return of the British army,any week after ?

DB14: Why

Pascal:No ideas, but you never know ...
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tasker224

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PostSubject: Re: G Company 2/24th ??   G Company 2/24th  ?? - Page 2 EmptySat Feb 11, 2012 9:46 am

DB14
The saddle feature must therefore be on the southern side of the mount.
There is a very good image of the plain, mount and position of the camp, on:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

You may need to enlarge it, but it has helped me to orient the salient features that are often talked about in books and so forth.
Just seen this also:
"To the immediate south of the mountain is a narrow neck or saddle, and to the south of the saddle, a small koppie (hill), that would become known as Black’s Koppie. In the saddle are 4,500 oxen, 220 wagons and carts, and about 50 horses, donkeys and mules."
This website by Robert Gerrard FRGS, is well worth a look.

Tasker Salute

Those who know the area well, please correct me if I am off the mark.
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Drummer Boy 14

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PostSubject: Re: G Company 2/24th ??   G Company 2/24th  ?? - Page 2 EmptySat Feb 11, 2012 10:07 am

This is an image from the Saddle looking at the moutain

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]




Cheers
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PostSubject: Re: G Company 2/24th ??   G Company 2/24th  ?? - Page 2 EmptySat Feb 11, 2012 10:12 am

Thanks for that, DB14. I have seen this picture and many others.
Putting all the pictures together like a jig-saw in my mind is what I have been struggling with, but I think I am slowly getting there!
The only real way to do this properly and to appreciate the scale and orientation of everything is to go there one day, which I am certainly hoping to do!
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PostSubject: Re: G Company 2/24th ??   G Company 2/24th  ?? - Page 2 EmptySat Feb 11, 2012 3:15 pm

Yes good picture...
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ADMIN

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PostSubject: Re: G Company 2/24th ??   G Company 2/24th  ?? - Page 2 EmptyTue Feb 14, 2012 8:22 pm

I have received a PM from a member, who says

"The 2nd page takes me to a diffrent topic and the 3rd to the home page"

Is anyone else having this problem. I can access all pages.


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90th

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PostSubject: G Company 2 /24th   G Company 2/24th  ?? - Page 2 EmptyTue Feb 14, 2012 8:29 pm

Hi Pete.
Mine seems ok .
cheers 90th. Salute
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PostSubject: Re: G Company 2/24th ??   G Company 2/24th  ?? - Page 2 EmptyTue Feb 14, 2012 8:32 pm

Thanks 90th. It could be his security settings..
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Drummer Boy 14

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PostSubject: Re: G Company 2/24th ??   G Company 2/24th  ?? - Page 2 EmptyWed Feb 29, 2012 6:44 pm

Seems to be working know. Salute

Forbes writes that 50 men died in an advanced posistion.

About 400 paces beyond this was the ground of the battle before the troops broke from thier formation, and on both sides of this gulley the dead lie very thickly. In one spot 50 men of the 24th lie almost touching,as if they had fallen in a rallying square.

Snook has these as 2/24th men. Is he correct ??
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PostSubject: Re: G Company 2/24th ??   G Company 2/24th  ?? - Page 2 EmptyThu Mar 01, 2012 5:54 am

Bassage has these men as G Company.
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PostSubject: Re: G Company 2/24th ??   G Company 2/24th  ?? - Page 2 EmptyThu Mar 01, 2012 6:31 am

HI all

Yes, but be warned there were two Coys in the 2/24 th ...

Salute

Pascal
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PostSubject: Re: G Company 2/24th ??   G Company 2/24th  ?? - Page 2 EmptySat Apr 21, 2012 11:04 pm

50 men were found on the British right and there presence was recorded by Forbes
Bassage says how most of G Coy was found dead at its picket posistion.

Surly this is evidence that the 2/24th rear details went down to G Coy ?




Cheers
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G Company 2/24th  ?? - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: G Company 2/24th ??   G Company 2/24th  ?? - Page 2 EmptySun Apr 22, 2012 6:48 am

The 2/24 th it's the G coy + the composite coy...

Salute

Pascal
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PostSubject: Re: G Company 2/24th ??   G Company 2/24th  ?? - Page 2 EmptySun Apr 22, 2012 9:32 am

Then how would you explain the 50 men found on the right, plus most
of G Coy at the Donga ?




Cheers
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PostSubject: Re: G Company 2/24th ??   G Company 2/24th  ?? - Page 2 EmptySun Apr 22, 2012 9:41 am

Given the folds and tactical movements during the battle, you can not rely on this, and there was actually a composite company of the 2/24 th at Isandhlwana ...

Salute

Pascal
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PostSubject: Re: G Company 2/24th ??   G Company 2/24th  ?? - Page 2 EmptySun Apr 22, 2012 10:00 am

Forbes found 50 men in an advanced posistion on the British right.
Bassage found most of G Coy at there Picket posistion.

If there was a Comasite Coy, who were the 50 men on the right ?



Cheers
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PostSubject: Re: G Company 2/24th ??   G Company 2/24th  ?? - Page 2 EmptySun Apr 22, 2012 7:11 pm

Without wanting to get involved in this... it was Wilson (the only man to have paraded with the companies that morning and survived) who records in his account the positioning of Cavaye's, Mostyn's, and Porteous's coys - he then talks about the remaining four companies on the parade ground and that he was sent to join them. The inference from this is that, what with Pulleine requiring ALL the men in the camp to go to the front and what with the arrival of Dyer/Griffith, the remaining 2/24th details were able to be officered and formed into a separate composite coy - initially to the right of Wardell and to the left of Pope. Pope's coy later moved away in support of Durnford and left Dyer's composite coy in situ alongside Wardell. When the retreat happened, Wardell and Dyer kept together which is how their bodies were found together. DB - Jackson's maps explain this much clearer than I've written it.
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PostSubject: Re: G Company 2/24th ??   G Company 2/24th  ?? - Page 2 EmptyMon Apr 23, 2012 6:39 am

Well said!
Salute
Pascal
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PostSubject: Re: G Company 2/24th ??   G Company 2/24th  ?? - Page 2 EmptySat May 26, 2012 9:46 am

Doesn't Stafford record seeing a young officer of the 2/24th trying to reoganize his men in the camp ?
Surley this could only refer to Griffith or Dyer.





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PostSubject: Re: G Company 2/24th ??   G Company 2/24th  ?? - Page 2 EmptySat May 26, 2012 6:05 pm

Hi all

The 2/24 th at Isandhlwana was organized in two companies, Company G and a provisional company specially created at the beginning of the Zulu attack.

Julian knows the exact details of the constitution of the "composite company" ...

Salute

Pascal
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Ulundi

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PostSubject: Re: G Company 2/24th ??   G Company 2/24th  ?? - Page 2 EmptySat May 26, 2012 9:22 pm

DB. Didn't the two officers you mentioned die together. I think these are the officers who the Zulus said had glass in their eyes.
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PostSubject: Re: G Company 2/24th ??   G Company 2/24th  ?? - Page 2 EmptySat May 26, 2012 9:25 pm

HI Ulundi

Pope and Godwin-Austen weren't young officers of the 2/24th, Dyer and Griffith were around 20 and 21.

Description fits either of them.




Cheers
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