WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM

Film Zulu Dawn:Lt. Col. Pulleine: His Lordship is of the cetain opinion that it's far too difficult an approach to be chosen by the Zulu command.Col. Durnford: Yes, well... difficulty never deterred a Zulu commander.
 
HomeHome  CalendarCalendar  GalleryGallery  PublicationsPublications  FAQFAQ  SearchSearch  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  
Latest topics
»  Darkest Africa
Today at 9:33 am by John Young

» Prince Imperial Leave Request at Woolwich
Yesterday at 8:03 pm by martinusmagnus

» Lieutenant-Colonel Gerald Lionel Joseph Goff.
Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:26 pm by 90th

» R.I.P Terry Sole
Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:05 pm by nitro450

» Major Gonville Bromhead VC
Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:46 am by SRB1965

» Lt. G. Pardoe 1st Btn 13th (Somerset) Light Infantry
Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:45 am by ADMIN

» Natal Hussars
Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:02 pm by Rory Reynolds

» Location of grave : Lt. F. Scott Natal Carbineers
Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:49 pm by Tim Needham

» Lieutenant Henry Lysons
Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:47 pm by ADMIN

» Lt. H.Valentine Jay. Natal Native Contingent
Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:44 pm by ADMIN

» Lieut & Adjutant Henry Julian Dyer
Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:41 pm by ADMIN

» Lt Gonville Bromhead
Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:19 pm by ADMIN

» MAJOR FRANK BROADWOOD MATTHEWS
Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:15 pm by ADMIN

» Lodge Isandlwana Masonic Military Lodge
Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:11 pm by Muhlenbeck

» Lt. G. Baker 3rd Btn 60th Regiment
Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:03 pm by ADMIN

Lt. General Sir J.G. Wolseley, General Officer Commanding
Mac and Shad (Isandula Collection)
The Battlefields of Isandlwana and Rorke's Drift
Search
 
 

Display results as :
 
Rechercher Advanced Search
Top posters
90th
 
littlehand
 
Frank Allewell
 
ADMIN
 
Chelmsfordthescapegoat
 
John
 
Mr M. Cooper
 
1879graves
 
impi
 
rusteze
 
Fair Use Notice
Fair use notice. This website may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorised by the copyright owner. We are making such material and images are available in our efforts to advance the understanding of the “Anglo Zulu War of 1879. For educational & recreational purposes. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material, as provided for in UK copyright law. The information is purely for educational and research purposes only. No profit is made from any part of this website. If you hold the copyright on any material on the site, or material refers to you, and you would like it to be removed, please let us know and we will work with you to reach a resolution.
Top posting users this month
90th
 
xhosa2000
 
Frank Allewell
 
SRB1965
 
ADMIN
 
Victorian Dad
 
Brett Hendey
 
rusteze
 
FLYNN
 
aussie inkosi
 
Most active topics
Isandlwana, Last Stands
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Durnford was he capable.5
Durnford was he capable.1
Durnford was he capable. 3
Durnford was he capable.2
Durnford was he capable. 4
The ammunition question
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
The missing five hours.

Share | 
 

 The Lagaar Helpmakaar Anyone recognize this Anglo-Zulu War water-colour (obscure)?

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
AuthorMessage
eric_deslauriers



Posts : 2
Join date : 2013-02-09

PostSubject: The Lagaar Helpmakaar Anyone recognize this Anglo-Zulu War water-colour (obscure)?   Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:48 pm

I'm looking for information regarding this painting:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

I've searched and searched, but to no avail: I cannot even figure out who the painter was. All I know is it was a water-colour painted during the Anglo-Zulu War...If anyone has any clues, I could defiantly use the help!
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: The Lagaar Helpmakaar Anyone recognize this Anglo-Zulu War water-colour (obscure)?   Sat Feb 09, 2013 3:46 pm

Eric,

Welcome to the forum. A geat subject for your first post. Where did you find the painting?

My first guess was that your water-colour was done by W. W. Lloyd.

Here is a link to one of W. W. Lloyd’s water-colours of “Insde the Lagaar Helpmakaar at Daybreak”. The defenses, with the wagons built into the wall, is very similar to your painting. The word “Helpmakaar” looks to be almost the same.

http://www.turtlebunbury.com/images/history/heroes/whitelocke%20lloyd/helpmakaar.jpg


Petty Officer Tom

Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: The Lagaar Helpmakaar Anyone recognize this Anglo-Zulu War water-colour (obscure)?   Sat Feb 09, 2013 3:46 pm

Eric,

Welcome to the forum. A geat subject for your first post. Where did you find the painting?

My first guess was that your water-colour was done by W. W. Lloyd.

Here is a link to one of W. W. Lloyd’s water-colours of “Insde the Lagaar Helpmakaar at Daybreak”. The defenses, with the wagons built into the wall, is very similar to your painting. The word “Helpmakaar” looks to be almost the same.

http://www.turtlebunbury.com/images/history/heroes/whitelocke%20lloyd/helpmakaar.jpg


Petty Officer Tom

Back to top Go down
Frank Allewell

avatar

Posts : 6441
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 70
Location : Cape Town South Africa

PostSubject: Re: The Lagaar Helpmakaar Anyone recognize this Anglo-Zulu War water-colour (obscure)?   Sat Feb 09, 2013 4:35 pm

Eric
It is indeed by Lloyd, one of a series of 12 painted by him st Helpmakaar. I wasnt aware it had ever been published, could I ask where you spotted it?

Regards
Back to top Go down
eric_deslauriers



Posts : 2
Join date : 2013-02-09

PostSubject: Re: The Lagaar Helpmakaar Anyone recognize this Anglo-Zulu War water-colour (obscure)?   Sat Feb 09, 2013 8:44 pm

By W. W. Lloyd, eh. He was one of the painters of the period which I investigated, as I thought some of his other work looked suspiciously like this piece -- but I could never actually find a reference which credited him as being the painter.

Does anyone know where this piece is held?

I was made aware of the painting by Dr. John Leband. I am taking one of his seminars, and part of my assignment is to research this painting without being given any clues about it. As it were, I have a super-high resolution version of the painting, if anyone happens to want it.
Back to top Go down
Frank Allewell

avatar

Posts : 6441
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 70
Location : Cape Town South Africa

PostSubject: Re: The Lagaar Helpmakaar Anyone recognize this Anglo-Zulu War water-colour (obscure)?   Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:06 am

Eric

William Whitelock Lloyd was the subject of a book by the late David Rattray: A Soldier Artist in Zululand. Various other paintings and a sketch are shown in the book from Helpmakaar.Lloyd was a prolific artist, incredibly accurate in his depictions of the scenary.
David spent a considerable time in finding the paintings local and photographing the self same angles. The accuracy is amazing, almost a then and now effect. Because of the lack of cameras at the time this sort of link provides a wonderful link and represen tation to the period.
The Lloyd portfolio was auctioned a few months ago, if you do a search on the forum you will find the results, suffice to say I was outbid.

Regards
Back to top Go down
90th

avatar

Posts : 9300
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 61
Location : Melbourne, Australia

PostSubject: Re: The Lagaar Helpmakaar Anyone recognize this Anglo-Zulu War water-colour (obscure)?   Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:45 am

Hi Eric .
It certainly is a painting by William Whitelock Lloyd it is in ' A Soldier Artist In Zululand ' by David Rattray as has been pointed out by others from the forum . In the index it's listed as Plate 62 , '' The Laager At Helpmakaar Our Fortifications '' ( Watercolour , 170 x
250 mm ). Part of the Narrative probably written by Rattray states , '' This painting suggests that the structure of the Laager was more substantial than most people imagine . Lloyd and his men would be holed up here for more than three months .
Cheers 90th. You need to study mo
Back to top Go down
barry

avatar

Posts : 820
Join date : 2011-10-21
Location : Port Elizabeth, Z.A.

PostSubject: Helpmekaar camp, painting   Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:50 pm



Hi All,
I am bothered by the correctness of this picture. All actual daguerrotype pictures which I have of the AZW period, and later, only show tented structures at Helpmekaar. The fortification wall around the camp perimeter then were made of earth.
This painting shows corrugated iron structures on the right, and Boer transport wagons off loading sacks of grain.
as I know nearly all of the transport riders of that era were Boers, the wagons shown are right, but the iron buildings seem to be out of place.

regards

barry
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: The Lagaar Helpmakaar Anyone recognize this Anglo-Zulu War water-colour (obscure)?   Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:40 pm

Barry,

You are correct stating that the fortifications at Helpmakaar were made of earth. However that was not done until January 29th, when a company of Royal Engineers arrived.

When the first survivors from Ishandlwana arrived at Helpmakaar they threw together a hasty defense as described in Chapter Seven of “the Curling Letters of the Zulu War”:

“When the bedraggled and exhausted reached Helpmakaar, the sight that greeted them did not comfort them. The bustling depot they had left a fortnight before had been reduced to an unfortified wind-swept and sodden area consisting of a corrugated stores shed and a few tents belonging to a section of infantry left as guards.
As the senior officer, Captain Essex too command and organized a defence with the few tools he had at his disposal. He made a small lagaar by surrounding the zinc shed with the few wagons left and infilling with sacks of mealies. At this time there were forty-eight people, including volunteers, camp followers and two or three farmers with their families, who had come in for protection.”

This was the condition of the fort when the 2 companies of the 24th arrived back at Helpmakaar. These were the ones that Captain Spalding, R.E. was taking to Rorke’s Drift, but had turned back. Lieutenant Lloyd was with one of these companies. Before the end of the month all companies of the 24th were moved to Rorke’s Drift, and 4 companies of the 4th were stationed at Helpmakaar, so I don’t think Lloyd had the opportunity to paint a picture of the new fortifications.

I hope that clarifies the differences in the fortification for you.

Petty Officer Tom

Back to top Go down
90th

avatar

Posts : 9300
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 61
Location : Melbourne, Australia

PostSubject: Re: The Lagaar Helpmakaar Anyone recognize this Anglo-Zulu War water-colour (obscure)?   Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:59 pm

Hi All .
In my previous post I did post part of the Narrative beneath the painting in Rattray's book , here is the other part Rattray
has beneath this painting , so it may help you Barry .
'' Close to this was the Laager , strongly made of earth , its excessive strength being excusable when we remember it's nearness to Rorke's Drift and the terrible circumstances under which it was constructed . Helpmakaar is only 12 miles by road from Rorke's Drift ''
( Montague , Campaigning ; P85 ) . If he indeed Rattray was quoting from ' Campaigning In Zululand ' by W.E. Montague , it isnt on page 85 in my paperback edition .
Cheers 90th.
Back to top Go down
Frank Allewell

avatar

Posts : 6441
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 70
Location : Cape Town South Africa

PostSubject: Re: The Lagaar Helpmakaar Anyone recognize this Anglo-Zulu War water-colour (obscure)?   Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:10 am

Barry
There were three sketches published in the Illustrated London News showing the cast iron sheds. There is also a photo showing a very similar view as depicted by Lloyd ( Page 214 then and now by Ian Knight and Ian Castle )
There is a second different photo in the SB Bourquin collection from a different angle showing the sheds. They were erected as part of the original supply depot. In the Sb photo the old farmhouse is also shown, parts of it still stand today.

Cheers
Back to top Go down
littlehand

avatar

Posts : 7063
Join date : 2009-04-24
Age : 49
Location : Down South.

PostSubject: Re: The Lagaar Helpmakaar Anyone recognize this Anglo-Zulu War water-colour (obscure)?   Mon Feb 22, 2016 9:19 pm

Main supply depot for the No 3 Column at Helpmakaar mealie bags used to support the wall.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Source:dmc
Back to top Go down
Frank Allewell

avatar

Posts : 6441
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 70
Location : Cape Town South Africa

PostSubject: Re: The Lagaar Helpmakaar Anyone recognize this Anglo-Zulu War water-colour (obscure)?   Tue Feb 23, 2016 5:15 am

Cannon at Helpmakaar?
Back to top Go down
barry

avatar

Posts : 820
Join date : 2011-10-21
Location : Port Elizabeth, Z.A.

PostSubject: Helpmekaar   Tue Feb 23, 2016 5:31 am

Hi Frank,
Indeed, not a 7pdr RML either but something else.
Perhaps artistic licence being excercised in the same vein as the rendition of Isandlwana battlefield depicting Scotch carts delivering copious quantities of ammo to the firing lines around the heavily beseiged camp.
Joking aside I see in the pic too, many entrenching tools and piles of boxes of ammo ready for use there.

regards

barry
Back to top Go down
90th

avatar

Posts : 9300
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 61
Location : Melbourne, Australia

PostSubject: The Lagaar Helpmakaar   Tue Feb 23, 2016 5:43 am

I find it difficult to believe there was any Artillery at H'makaar , certainly artistic licence , and no doubt the painting was constructed after the 22nd Jan as were / was the entrenchments ! , happy to be corrected scratch
90th
Back to top Go down
Frank Allewell

avatar

Posts : 6441
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 70
Location : Cape Town South Africa

PostSubject: Re: The Lagaar Helpmakaar Anyone recognize this Anglo-Zulu War water-colour (obscure)?   Tue Feb 23, 2016 6:35 am

Littlehand
You've got to find a different subject for your art classes mate. Very Happy
Back to top Go down
rusteze

avatar

Posts : 2192
Join date : 2010-06-02

PostSubject: Re: The Lagaar Helpmakaar Anyone recognize this Anglo-Zulu War water-colour (obscure)?   Tue Feb 23, 2016 12:03 pm

Sketch is from a series of 4 in the ILN in April 79. Makes the fort look pretty substantial. Note the waggon laager behind the mound - belt and braces. Shown the other way around in the watercolour.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Steve
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: The Lagaar Helpmakaar Anyone recognize this Anglo-Zulu War water-colour (obscure)?   

Back to top Go down
 
The Lagaar Helpmakaar Anyone recognize this Anglo-Zulu War water-colour (obscure)?
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 1

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM  :: GENERAL DISCUSSION AREA-
Jump to: