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 Re: Col Thomas Coppinger

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John Howard



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PostSubject: Re: Col Thomas Coppinger   Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:42 pm

How can I find out more about Thomas Coppingers involvement in the Zulu War .

His Death notice in 1929 reads " Colonel Thomas Stephen Coppinger was a veteran of the zulu war. He entered the 11th foot regt. in 1866 and reached the rank of Major in 1884. Afterwards he was transfered to the Army Pay Department in which he became Colonel in 1904 and from which he retired in 1905.

Many thanks

John
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littlehand

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PostSubject: Re: Re: Col Thomas Coppinger   Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:25 pm

Thanks John. Have you see this link.

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John Howard



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PostSubject: Re: T Coppinger   Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:35 pm

littlehand wrote:
Thanks John. Have you see this link.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]


Thanks for the link, any idea what the inscription says?
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littlehand

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PostSubject: Re: Re: Col Thomas Coppinger   Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:48 pm

I will send Tim a PM. He's the one who provided the photo.

John, you will Probaly gets bits of information from various members, but it's builds the story.

Here's some information to start.

"Coppinger, THOMAS STEPHEN, J.P. for Co. Limerick born 1843, eldest surviving son of Thomas Stephen Coppinger, J.P., of Midleton, Co. Cork, by Mary, daughter of Sir John Power, first Baronet; married (1878) MARTHA"
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PostSubject: Re: Re: Col Thomas Coppinger   Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:52 pm

John,

“11th Foot – Capt. T. S. Coppinger late of the 1st Battalion, who recently joined the Army Pay Department, sailed a few days ago in the Egypt for Natal, to join the 24th Regiment as paymaster to its 1st Battalion. He was previously at the Cape as a subaltern in the 2nd Battalion, 11th Foot.” (Source: The Western Times; Exeter, Tuesday, March 11, 1879)

The Egypt was a National Line steam ship that was hired by the Admiralty to transport reinforcements to South Africa. She departed England on the 28th of February, and arrived in Natal on the 9th of April, 1879. The same ship brought the 1st Battalion of the 24th back to England, leaving Durban on 27 August and arriving at Portsmouth on October 2, 1879.


Petty Officer Tom

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littlehand

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PostSubject: Re: Re: Col Thomas Coppinger   Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:56 pm

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littlehand

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PostSubject: Re: Re: Col Thomas Coppinger   Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:40 pm

Shipping records - December 1902

London Times, 20 Dec 02 (Saturday)
p6a The Dilwara left for England December 10, with the following on passage home:
For Gibraltar:
102/RGA – Major C E Jervois, Lieutenant C H Mortimer, 2/Lieutenant A G Thomas and
80 men
For Nigeria:
12/Lancers – Major E Crawley
For England:
1/Innis. Fusiliers – Colonel R L Payne, Lieutenant & Quartermaster J A Page
2/W Kent – Lieutenant A H Pullman and 116 men
4/Survey Section, RE – Captain H W Gordon and 16 men
RE – Captain A C Scott and 9 men
2/Leicester – Lieutenant F le M Gruchy
Reserve of officers – Major W Fitzpatrick
4/R Lancaster – Lieutenant R F Awdry
KRRC – Major E W Thistlethwayte, Captain W H Fenner
W Surrey – Captain H St C Wilkins
1/Worcester – Captain J C Mitchell
RFA – Majors H W Addington, CB Dunlop, Captain C G Stewart
Norfolk Militia Artillery – Captain C H Walker
Munster Fusiliers – Captain W A Hutchinson
1/W Riding – Major C V Humphrys
3/L N Lancs. – Captain A de M Bellairs
2/DG – Lieutenant & Quartermaster J Hopkins
2/Devon – Lieutenant J A H Britton
Dorset – Major A A Chichester
1/Yorks – Major G C S Handcock
3/V B Liverpool – Lieutenant P R Bland
2/Northumberland Fusiliers – Major & Quartermaster J Thomson
2/Lincoln – Lieutenant H E Dawson
7/Hussars – Captain & Quartermaster F Durmam
RAMC – Captain M M Rattray, Lieutenants R B Black, R L Popham, D O Hyde and
147 men
ASC – Captains T C L Rivis, J L Jesse. Lieutenants G P Dean, H R Lever,
F B Delavoye, F W Garvey, L B Ray, L M S Page, B S A
Douglas-Hamilton, Lieutenant & Quartermaster O G Jones and 98 men
AOD – Major R K Scott and 25 men
APD – Captain T S Coppinger
South African L H (Late) – Captain T Collins
Reverend RE Skone
Veterinary Major L J Blenkinsop
R N – Captain W L Down.
Civil Veterinary Surgeon A J Sellars.
Nursing Sisters A Garriock, A Kuys
9/ASC – 41 men
York & Lancs. – 20 men
57/RGA – 20 men
Due Southampton Jan 1.
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90th

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PostSubject: Re - Colonel Thomas Coppinger    Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:13 pm

From the Forsyth Medal Roll - South Africa 1877 - 78- 79 ; Captain Thomas Stephen Coppinger , Army Pay Dept , Entitled to Medal without Clasp .
90th You need to study mo
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John Howard



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PostSubject: Re: Re: Col Thomas Coppinger   Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:40 pm

90th wrote:
From the Forsyth Medal Roll - South Africa 1877 - 78- 79 ; Captain Thomas Stephen Coppinger , Army Pay Dept , Entitled to Medal without Clasp .
90th You need to study mo

Thanks for the info 90th. what does "Entitled to Medal without Clasp." mean? and what medal?
John
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90th

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PostSubject: Col Thomas Coppinger    Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:52 pm

Hi John .
All those who took part in the Campaigns in Southern Africa were entitled to a Campaign Medal , the correct name of the Medal is
the ' South African General Service Medal ( SAGS ) . Bars or Clasps were added to the medal to determine which campaign an individual took part in. The Zulu war which is our interest with Coppinger means he had to cross the River ( Border ) into Zululand to be awarded the '' 1879 '' Clasp . As he was entitled to the Medal only , with no Clasp, it merely means he was in Natal or elsewhere for his duration of service in the war and never ventured into Zululand . Hope this helps . Check the thread on here regarding 1879 South Africa Campaign Medal , there will be pics of the Medal in case you are unsure of what it looks like .
Cheers 90th

ps . I dont suppose your our Ex Prime Minister ?? . Lol ! .
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John Howard



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PostSubject: Re: Re: Col Thomas Coppinger   Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:14 pm

90th wrote:
Hi John .
All those who took part in the Campaigns in Southern Africa were entitled to a Campaign Medal , the correct name of the Medal is
the ' South African General Service Medal ( SAGS ) . Bars or Clasps were added to the medal to determine which campaign an individual took part in. The Zulu war which is our interest with Coppinger means he had to cross the River ( Border ) into Zululand to be awarded the '' 1879 '' Clasp . As he was entitled to the Medal only , with no Clasp, it merely means he was in Natal or elsewhere for his duration of service in the war and never ventured into Zululand . Hope this helps . Check the thread on here regarding 1879 South Africa Campaign Medal , there will be pics of the Medal in case you are unsure of what it looks like .
Cheers 90th

ps . I dont suppose your our Ex Prime Minister ?? . Lol ! .

No not the same John Howard, but I was living there when he was Premier NSW and got a bit of stick. And Thanks.
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Tim Needham

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PostSubject: Re: Col Thomas Coppinger    Sat Feb 16, 2013 2:37 pm

John,

The inscription on Coppinger's headstone reads; In
Loving Memory of
Colonel Thomas
Stephen Coppinger
Who died Feb. 9th 1929
In his 84th year
Also of his only dearly loved son
Cyril Douglas Coppinger
Private Northants Regt
Killed in action at Festubert
9th May 1915 aged 24

Regards,

Tim
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John Howard



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PostSubject: Re: Re: Col Thomas Coppinger   Sat Feb 16, 2013 4:02 pm

Tim Needham wrote:
John,

The inscription on Coppinger's headstone reads; In
Loving Memory of
Colonel Thomas
Stephen Coppinger
Who died Feb. 9th 1929
In his 84th year
Also of his only dearly loved son
Cyril Douglas Coppinger
Private Northants Regt
Killed in action at Festubert
9th May 1915 aged 24

Regards,


Tim

Thanks Tim

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old historian2

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PostSubject: Re: Re: Col Thomas Coppinger   Sun Feb 17, 2013 8:18 pm

Just a glimpse of what one person experienced.

An extract from a war diary of the 1st Northamptons for the 9th May 1915:

Everyone was up at daybreak completing last details and arrangements. We had a large amount of stores to carry such as scaling ladders, bridges, wire cutters, bombs, flags for showing progress, etc. The morning was fine and very clear and the gunners’ observation officer attached for the day to the battalion thought it a perfect morning for the artillery. At 5.00 a.m. sharp the bombardment of the enemy lines and fortified posts commenced from our guns behind – 18 pounders and 15 inch & 9.2 inch howitzers. The noise was terrific. This bombardment continued until 5.30 a.m. during which time the guns were playing on the various enemy batteries and fortified houses in the rear of the line.

From 5.30 to 5.40 {artillery} fire was turned on turned on the enemy trenches which were sandbagged breastworks. The 18 pounder field guns playing on the barbed wire entanglements and cut gaps for our infantry assault. During this 10 minutes the men of our leading companies – “B” under Captain Dickson and “D” under Captain Farrar got over the parapet preceded by bombers, men carrying scaling ladders, etc. These companies advanced as close as possible to about 100 yards from the enemy parapet and there lay down until bombardment ceased. Again, at the same time two companies in the support trenches “A” and “C” under Captain Mylne and Captain Sir F Robinson, and battalion H.Q. moved from the supporting trenches to the fire trenches and thence over the parapet to support “B” and “D”. At 5.40 a.m. precisely the bombardment ceased and the battalion with the ROYAL SUSSEX rushed to the assault. Our first companies got close up to the German barbed wire and Captain Dickson and about 20 men reached a gap made by our guns in the trenches. There the men were all shot down, Captain Dickson being killed at once and also Captain Farrar. The enemy had opened a heavy rifle and machine gun fire from their trenches before our men could get near them and were mowed down. It was impossible to take the position and the assault had failed. Our artillery appeared to have done very little damage to the enemy as regards either parapet, wire or men themselves for even through the bombardment on their trenches rifle shots and machine gun fire was directed on our men as they came over our parapet.

By this time the enemy had opened fire with his guns and heavily shelled our parapets, reserve trenches and RUE DU BOIS. The Battalion was now lying in front between the two trenches, unable to advance or retire or even …….. to move without being fired upon. Throughout the day the men lay out absolutely exposed to the rifle, machine gun and shell fire from the German lines. A few who were near our parapet managed to retire on the order being given. They were collected behind our lines and support trenches and there remained for the remainder of the day. At 3 p.m. another bombardment and assault was ordered, the 1st Brigade undertaking it this time, with no better results, though a few of the Black Watch got into the German trenches but were forced to retire.

When darkness came the survivors crawled back to our trenches having lain out in the open for 14½ hours. The wounded, those that could be got to, were brought back, the Medical Officer, Lieutenant Bourdillon, doing very valuable work on this day. The commanding officer and adjutant brought out the remainder of the battalion (some 150 odd) to LE TOURET where orders were received to billet for the night, the 2nd Division having taken over trenches and operations from the 1st.

Our losses were very heavy, 8 officers being killed & 9 wounded and 541 men killed, wounded or missing*. Of the 19 company officers that went out only 2 returned unhurt.


13139 Pte Albert King.

Source the Great War Forum
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John Howard



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PostSubject: Re: Re: Col Thomas Coppinger   Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:03 am

old historian2 wrote:
Just a glimpse of what one person experienced.

An extract from a war diary of the 1st Northamptons for the 9th May 1915:

Everyone was up at daybreak completing last details and arrangements. We had a large amount of stores to carry such as scaling ladders, bridges, wire cutters, bombs, flags for showing progress, etc. The morning was fine and very clear and the gunners’ observation officer attached for the day to the battalion thought it a perfect morning for the artillery. At 5.00 a.m. sharp the bombardment of the enemy lines and fortified posts commenced from our guns behind – 18 pounders and 15 inch & 9.2 inch howitzers. The noise was terrific. This bombardment continued until 5.30 a.m. during which time the guns were playing on the various enemy batteries and fortified houses in the rear of the line.

From 5.30 to 5.40 {artillery} fire was turned on turned on the enemy trenches which were sandbagged breastworks. The 18 pounder field guns playing on the barbed wire entanglements and cut gaps for our infantry assault. During this 10 minutes the men of our leading companies – “B” under Captain Dickson and “D” under Captain Farrar got over the parapet preceded by bombers, men carrying scaling ladders, etc. These companies advanced as close as possible to about 100 yards from the enemy parapet and there lay down until bombardment ceased. Again, at the same time two companies in the support trenches “A” and “C” under Captain Mylne and Captain Sir F Robinson, and battalion H.Q. moved from the supporting trenches to the fire trenches and thence over the parapet to support “B” and “D”. At 5.40 a.m. precisely the bombardment ceased and the battalion with the ROYAL SUSSEX rushed to the assault. Our first companies got close up to the German barbed wire and Captain Dickson and about 20 men reached a gap made by our guns in the trenches. There the men were all shot down, Captain Dickson being killed at once and also Captain Farrar. The enemy had opened a heavy rifle and machine gun fire from their trenches before our men could get near them and were mowed down. It was impossible to take the position and the assault had failed. Our artillery appeared to have done very little damage to the enemy as regards either parapet, wire or men themselves for even through the bombardment on their trenches rifle shots and machine gun fire was directed on our men as they came over our parapet.

By this time the enemy had opened fire with his guns and heavily shelled our parapets, reserve trenches and RUE DU BOIS. The Battalion was now lying in front between the two trenches, unable to advance or retire or even …….. to move without being fired upon. Throughout the day the men lay out absolutely exposed to the rifle, machine gun and shell fire from the German lines. A few who were near our parapet managed to retire on the order being given. They were collected behind our lines and support trenches and there remained for the remainder of the day. At 3 p.m. another bombardment and assault was ordered, the 1st Brigade undertaking it this time, with no better results, though a few of the Black Watch got into the German trenches but were forced to retire.

When darkness came the survivors crawled back to our trenches having lain out in the open for 14½ hours. The wounded, those that could be got to, were brought back, the Medical Officer, Lieutenant Bourdillon, doing very valuable work on this day. The commanding officer and adjutant brought out the remainder of the battalion (some 150 odd) to LE TOURET where orders were received to billet for the night, the 2nd Division having taken over trenches and operations from the 1st.

Our losses were very heavy, 8 officers being killed & 9 wounded and 541 men killed, wounded or missing*. Of the 19 company officers that went out only 2 returned unhurt.


13139 Pte Albert King.

Source the Great War Forum

Thank ever so much, fantastic..
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PostSubject: Re: Re: Col Thomas Coppinger   Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:40 am

Quote :
Our losses were very heavy, 8 officers being killed & 9 wounded and 541 men killed, wounded or missing
What a day they had. Poor souls!
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90th

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PostSubject: Re: Re: Col Thomas Coppinger   Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:01 am

Hi All .
Can you imagine the uproar if these losses happened today ! . The Press would have a Field day . Losing anyone in War is a
terrible occurance , out here if we lose an Aussie Soldier the press run with it for days , fair enough too , as its a shocking situation for any family to find themselves thrust into . Revert back to the bottom line of Littlehands post and read it again ....'' 8 Officers
being Killed & 9 Wounded & 541 men Killed , Wounded or missing ! . I know there were many far worse days in regard to casualties ,
in WW1 , for example The first day I think it was of the First battle of the Somme had 60,000 casualties , dead , wounded & Missing !.
I think we ( Australians ) lost 5,000 in a night foray at Fromelles ! . Just imagine the carry on in todays press if this happened .
There wouldnt be a Govt , they'd all be sacked , I doubt there'd be an army ! . Certainly differant times nowadays , which is a good thing when you look at the slaughter of WW1 & WW2 . This post is in no way to denegrate those brave people who put it on the line for us in todays hotspots . Salute
Cheers 90th Salute
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