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Zulu.Lieutenant John Chard: What's our strength? Lieutenant Gonville Bromhead: Seven officers including surgeon, commissaries and so on; Adendorff now I suppose; wounded and sick 36, fit for duty 97 and about 40 native levies. Not much of an army for you.
 
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They were really at Isandhlwana ? Empty
PostSubject: They were really at Isandhlwana ?   They were really at Isandhlwana ? EmptyFri Feb 15, 2013 9:17 am

Hi all

The Zulu regiments Mbubi, amaShutu and amaKwenke ,were really at Isandhlwana ?

I'm reluctant to include these regiments within any formal list without the reinforce-ment of any firm primary (Zulu ) or secondary sources .

The only writer worth including here is A.W.Lee ,sometime Bishop of Zululand , who in his book published in 1949 ( Lee ,op.cit.,p.74.)recounted his experiences and meeting with various Zulus including Mehlokazulu in the early years of the twentieth century and it ought be remembered that bishop Lee lived and worked among the zulus , and wrote , albeit thirty years later ,from the vantage point of first - hand meetings with warriors who participed in the events of 1879.

There is another author who mentions these three regiments as being present at Isandhlwana ?


Cheers

Pascal The Rascal
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90th

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They were really at Isandhlwana ? Empty
PostSubject: They were really at Isandlwana    They were really at Isandhlwana ? EmptyFri Feb 15, 2013 9:48 am

Hi Rascal .
Mbubi ( iMbube ) if they are the same unit they formed part of the right horn at Isandlwana according to Ian Knight in Zulu Rising .
I've found the other two you named , but cant find if they were at Isandlwana or not . Very Happy
Cheers 90th . Salute
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PostSubject: Re: They were really at Isandhlwana ?   They were really at Isandhlwana ? EmptyFri Feb 15, 2013 9:55 am

Hi Marsupial

After Lee, they were all three at Isandhlwana, and after other modern authors, none of the three were Sad Sad Sad

And why they would not have the right to be there?


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Pascal The Rascal
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PostSubject: Re: They were really at Isandhlwana ?   They were really at Isandhlwana ? EmptySun Aug 04, 2013 10:52 pm

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PostSubject: Re: They were really at Isandhlwana ?   They were really at Isandhlwana ? EmptyMon Aug 05, 2013 6:22 am

Little hand

Thank you, but it misses and some are not in their place .
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PostSubject: Re: They were really at Isandhlwana ?   They were really at Isandhlwana ? EmptyMon Aug 05, 2013 10:58 am

My opinion on the composition and numbers of the Main Zulu impi opposing the British Column N°.3 in January 1879.


Definitely ? Likely ? Why not ?

                                            numbers present                                        
Left horn

Left of the left horn -ibuto uThulwane-numbers present:10 amaviyo of 50 warriors= 500 men -Source based on the evidence of Mpatshana and Mehlokazulu.

Centre of the left horn-ibuto uVe -numbers present:13 amaviyo of 50 warriors= 650 men-Source based on the evidence of Mpatshana.

Centre of the left horn-ibuto umHlanga-numbers present :20 amaviyo of 50 warriors= 1000 men -Source as a maximun figure based on Knight's list.                  

Right of the left horn-ibuto inGobamakhosi-numbers present :  80 amaviyo of 70 warriors= 5600 men -Source   based on the evidence of Mpatshana and Mehlokazulu
   
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They were really at Isandhlwana ? Empty
PostSubject: Re: They were really at Isandhlwana ?   They were really at Isandhlwana ? EmptyMon Aug 05, 2013 11:19 am

My opinion on the composition and numbers of the Main Zulu impi opposing the British Column N°.3 in January 1879.


Definitely ? Likely ? Why not ?

                                                                                 
Chest

Left of the Chest-ibuto umBonambi-numbers present:30 amaviyo of 50 warriors= 1500 men -Source based on the evidence of  Mehlokazulu.

Left of the Chest-ibuto amaShutu-numbers present :10 amaviyo of 50 warriors= 500 men -Source as a maximun figure based on A.W.Lee.  

Left of the Chest-ibuto umXapho -numbers present:15 amaviyo of 50 warriors= 750 men-Source based on the evidence of  Mehlokazulu.

Centre of the Chest-ibuto umCijo+ibutho unQakamamatye -numbers present:70 amaviyo of 50 warriors= 3500 men-Source based on the evidence of  Mehlokazulu.

Centre of the Chest-ibuto uMtulisazwi -numbers present:30 amaviyo of 50 warriors= 1500 men-Source based on the evidence of  Mehlokazulu.





               

Right of the left horn-ibuto inGobamakhosi-numbers present :  80 amaviyo of 70 warriors= 5600 men -Source   based on the evidence of Mpatshana and Mehlokazulu
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They were really at Isandhlwana ? Empty
PostSubject: Re: They were really at Isandhlwana ?   They were really at Isandhlwana ? EmptyMon Aug 05, 2013 11:38 am

My opinion on the composition and numbers of the Main Zulu impi opposing the British Column N°.3 in January 1879.


Definitely ? Likely ? Why not ?

                                                                                   
Right horn

Left of the right horn
-ibuto Nokenke-numbers present:20 amaviyo of 50 warriors= 1000 men -Source based on the evidence of  Mehlokazulu.

Right of the right horn
-ibuto uDududu -numbers present:20 amaviyo of 50 warriors= 1000 men-Source based on the evidence of Sihlahla.

Right of the right horn
-ibuto Mbubi-numbers present :10 amaviyo of 50 warriors= 500 men -Source as a maximun figure based on A.W.Lee.                  

Right of the right horn
-ibuto umKhulutshane-numbers present :2 amaviyo of 50 warriors= 100 men -As an absolute maximun.

Right of the right horn-ibuto umsikaba-numbers present :  10 amaviyo of 50 warriors= 500 men -As an absolute maximun figures based on Knight's list.

Right of the right horn
-ibuto Isanqu -numbers present:6 amaviyo of 50 warriors= 300 men-Source based on the evidence of Sihlahla.
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They were really at Isandhlwana ? Empty
PostSubject: Re: They were really at Isandhlwana ?   They were really at Isandhlwana ? EmptyMon Aug 05, 2013 12:00 pm

My opinion on the composition and numbers of the Main Zulu impi opposing the British Column N°.3 in January 1879.


Definitely ? Likely ? Why not ?

                                                                                 

The Loins

-ibuto uThulwana-numbers present:40 amaviyo of 50 warriors= 2000 men -Source based on the evidence of Mpatshana and  Mehlokazulu.

-ibuto isiBabule -numbers present:10 amaviyo of 50 warriors= 500 men-After me per deduction  Very Happy 

-ibuto Nkonkone-numbers present :10 amaviyo of 50 warriors= 500 men -As a maximun figure based on Knight's list.

-ibuto iNdhlondhlo-numbers present :10 amaviyo of 50 warriors= 500 men -As a maximun figure based on Finney's list.

-ibuto inDluyengwe-numbers present :20 amaviyo of 50 warriors= 1000 men -As an absolute maximun figures based on  Finney's list.

-ibuto uDhloko -numbers present:30 amaviyo of 50 warriors= 1500 men-Source based on the evidence of Sihlahla.

-ibuto amaKwenke -numbers present:18 amaviyo of 50 warriors= 900 men-After me per deduction Very Happy 

Obviously, these 138 amaviyo were not all to RD !
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PostSubject: Re: They were really at Isandhlwana ?   They were really at Isandhlwana ? EmptyTue Aug 06, 2013 1:27 pm

No opponents? This is great Salute 
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90th

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They were really at Isandhlwana ? Empty
PostSubject: They were really at Isandlwana ?   They were really at Isandhlwana ? EmptyTue Aug 06, 2013 2:57 pm

Hi Rascal .
As Springbok and I have said to you over the last year or so , the information you seek more than likely doesnt , or never existed in the first place . After all , it was only a 6 month war against a perceived primitive opponent . Those involved would never have believed in their wildest dreams that this small war would have the fascination it does 134 years on !
Marsy ! No  No 
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PostSubject: Re: They were really at Isandhlwana ?   They were really at Isandhlwana ? EmptyTue Aug 06, 2013 3:35 pm

Yes Marsupial but if the truth is aillor with sources that I give, I should not be far! Very Happy 
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They were really at Isandhlwana ? Empty
PostSubject: Re: They were really at Isandhlwana ?   They were really at Isandhlwana ? EmptyWed Aug 07, 2013 11:08 am

In fact, I wonder if the Zulus were not many more at Isandhlwana, what was said !
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