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Zulu Dawn Lt Col Pulleine Lord Chelmsford assures us that there is no way the Zulu can get around us without our knowing. Col Durnford Zulu generals have a nasty habit of doing the unexpected It might be wise to picket the hills
 
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 Two Swinburn Rifles

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matthew



Posts : 3
Join date : 2013-03-16

Two Swinburn Rifles Empty
PostSubject: Two Swinburn Rifles   Two Swinburn Rifles EmptySun Mar 17, 2013 1:38 pm

I have two barreled actions (parts) from my Fathers Estate. One Rifle, One Carbine. Bothe reputadly Swinburns. Numbers V913 and KT 7418. Can anyone help identify the authenticity of the claim that they are Swinburns from the cerial numbers.
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impi

impi

Posts : 2308
Join date : 2010-07-02
Age : 39

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PostSubject: Re: Two Swinburn Rifles   Two Swinburn Rifles EmptySun Mar 17, 2013 5:12 pm

Matthew welcome to the forum. I Dug this out with refrence to the one with the "V" Mark.

"The marking (when used) previous to the issue of the Swinburns  appears  to have  been  “V NL”.  Following the replacement of the Swinburns by the later Martini Metfords and Martini Enfields the “Union Jack” was dropped and the Volunteer marking was simplified to a plain “V”. This remained in use until shortly after the Boer War when the Natal Volunteers were replaced by the Natal Militia. The Lee Enfields issued to the Active Militia were stamped “C.A.M.” which almost certainly stands for “Colonial Active Militia.”  Following the coming of Union in 1910 the better known marking of a “U” with enclosed Broad Arrow was applied to all government rifles."

The best bet is to wait until Neil logs on. He's the gun expert!!
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matthew



Posts : 3
Join date : 2013-03-16

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PostSubject: Swinburn KT 7481   Two Swinburn Rifles EmptyMon Mar 18, 2013 7:44 pm

Hi Neil
Hope you log on sometime - I would be interested in your thoughts

Matthew
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John

John

Posts : 2557
Join date : 2009-04-06
Age : 57
Location : UK

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PostSubject: Re: Two Swinburn Rifles   Two Swinburn Rifles EmptyMon Mar 18, 2013 8:06 pm

I think he visits Isandlwana about this time of year. But he will know!
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Neil Aspinshaw

Neil Aspinshaw

Posts : 548
Join date : 2009-10-14
Location : Loughborough

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PostSubject: Re: Two Swinburn Rifles   Two Swinburn Rifles EmptyTue Mar 19, 2013 2:54 pm

Matthew V & X serial numbers are in the Natal Issue range for the Swinburn Carbine. Not seen KT on them, but its not beyond the reals of possibility however K.T is King Williams town knoxsform markings found usually on Martini Henrys.

It is possible that the Barrels were by , Adams and Tait or Jas Kerr pieces, as the Abingdon Works who made the Swinburns actions were precominately a component manufacturer. Certianly the rifles were viewed at Enfield. (300 in July 1875). The complication to the barrel is in 1875 the patent licence holder for the Henry Rifled barrel was the Henry Rifled Barrel Company of the Eagle Works Hoxton, London. The proof markings will be either, that will point to the place of proofing.

This is the Swinburn Carbine in my collection, Crown agents were Blakemore or London, but also King of Durban also acted as agents.

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matthew



Posts : 3
Join date : 2013-03-16

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PostSubject: Re: Two Swinburn Rifles   Two Swinburn Rifles EmptyTue Mar 19, 2013 7:28 pm

WOW yours is a really magnificent piece. is all Swinburn wood so beautifully chequered ? I will re examine KT 7481 for other markings, maybe it is a MH. May I use the pic for my license motivation

I have a 303 Martini Enfield carbine CCI with what I believe to be a New South Wales (NSW) brass washer roundel? on the stock, serial number 1948. Would you concur with this deduction? It belonged to my Grandmothers brother but he m ust have bought it out of service as he was to young for 1899, the family were English refugees from Harrysmith and spent the war in Intombi Camp, Ladysmith.

I live in Durban. where are you from
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Mr Greaves

Mr Greaves

Posts : 748
Join date : 2009-10-18

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PostSubject: Re: Two Swinburn Rifles   Two Swinburn Rifles EmptyTue Mar 19, 2013 9:06 pm

Luckily we have Neil in the UK.

For future reference, Neil is writing a book on the MH.

PS Neil's Website.. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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Neil Aspinshaw

Neil Aspinshaw

Posts : 548
Join date : 2009-10-14
Location : Loughborough

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PostSubject: Re: Two Swinburn Rifles   Two Swinburn Rifles EmptyTue Mar 19, 2013 9:11 pm

Matthew,
Your MMECC1 with the NSW markings should also have the branch of service mark such as C.(cavalry) A. (Artillery) L. (Lancers) etc. For more information have a look on my Martini Henry website
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

After the Boer war the Australian troops, many of whom were volunteers were allowed to keep their rifles and carbines, hence many still survive today. I suggest you get hold of "Carvings From The Veldt" by David George which as a South African should be compulsive reading.

I'm from Loughborough England, ha ha just got back from SA after being on the battlefields and CT.

PS Luggs Swinburn Carbine was in the Warriors Gate Museum in Durban, presume it still is, the serial mumner is 162 different to mine, and the chequering is identical. If you by chance get to Mtonjaneni Museum, theres a similar SHC found in the buffalo river at Fugitives.
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