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 Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records

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Should David Jenkins be added to the Rorkes Drift roll of defenders
Yes
49%
 49% [ 23 ]
No
4%
 4% [ 2 ]
More research should have been done
45%
 45% [ 21 ]
It was all a publicly stunt
0%
 0% [ 0 ]
Doesn't really matter
2%
 2% [ 1 ]
Total Votes : 47
 

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PostSubject: Re: Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records   Sun Aug 11, 2013 9:13 am

It depends on the people, I bet if you had survived something extraordinary as Isandhlwana or RD , after 30 or 40 years or more you will remember all that you have seen!
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PostSubject: Re: Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records   Sun Aug 11, 2013 9:27 am

I may have struggled remembering " Hook" being on the roof and not being in the same regiment.

Historians and Authors, always say accounts are in accurate as they were written many years after the event. That way , accounts can be bent to fit around their books ect.

But you right, Pascal. you would remember
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PostSubject: Re: Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records   Sun Aug 11, 2013 9:39 am

Pascal MAHE wrote:
It depends on the people, I bet if you had survived something extraordinary as Isandhlwana or RD , after 30 or 40 years or more you will remember all that you have seen!
agree  Without doubt!
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PostSubject: Re: Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records   Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:06 am

Not all the time.
I was involved in a major incident in Aden close to 50 years ago. I remember the crew of the scout car but dont have a clue who was in the landrover we pulled out ( Different regiment, weekend soldiers ) time buggers up the memory banks even though we got really hammered with them a few days later.

Ask any politician what he spent on his parliamentary account................................... Very Happy 

Cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records   Sun Aug 11, 2013 11:30 am

Extracts from Monmouthshire Merlin Dec 1879

"Rorke's Drift on canvas
- With the permission of the Colonel of the regiment, a number of the Rorke's Drift men, survivors of the defence, have been told off to wait upon Miss Thompson at Portsmouth, where she is now hard at work. In the garden of a friend's house earthworks, or rather sacks containing earth, to look as nearly as possible like mealie bags, have been set up, making a miniature Rorke's Drift. Here the gallant defenders fight their battle over again, and are sketched in as they stand. All the principal figures will be portraits, and we shall not only a picture of the battle, but the counterfeit presentments of many of the heroes who took part in it. ..."



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PostSubject: Re: Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records   Sun Aug 11, 2013 11:31 am

springbok9 wrote:
Not all the time.
I was involved in a major incident in Aden close to 50 years ago. I remember the crew of the scout car but dont have a clue who was in the landrover we pulled out ( Different regiment, weekend soldiers ) time buggers up the memory banks even though we got really hammered with them a few days later.

Ask any politician what he spent on his parliamentary account................................... Very Happy 

Cheers


A Walk in the park compared to fighting non-stop for 15hrs in very close proximity of other men from other regiments. 

If you have time watch the final attack in the film posted by John. "Passchendaele"
Then research the battle on the YouTube site. There you will see live interviews with men who took part in that battle, most recalling vividly their experience. Remember seeing men killed they didn't even know, but can say word for word the events and how those men died. Men haunted by the faces of the Germans they killed. One guy suffers from "alzheimer's" but still can remember the names of the soldiers under his command. 





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PostSubject: Re: Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records   Sun Aug 11, 2013 11:36 am

Sherman wrote:
Extracts from Monmouthshire Merlin Dec 1879

"Rorke's Drift on canvas
- With the permission of the Colonel of the regiment, a number of the Rorke's Drift men, survivors of the defence, have been told off to wait upon Miss Thompson at Portsmouth, where she is now hard at work. In the garden of a friend's house earthworks, or rather sacks containing earth, to look as nearly as possible like mealie bags, have been set up, making a miniature Rorke's Drift. Here the gallant defenders fight their battle over again, and are sketched in as they stand. All the principal figures will be portraits, and we shall not only a picture of the battle, but the counterfeit presentments of many of the heroes who took part in it. ..."
Again, Jenkins could have just been standing in for soldiers not present.

Perhaps Jenkins was telling everyone he was a RD, but neglected to say "but only on canvas" ?
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PostSubject: Re: Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records   Sun Aug 11, 2013 12:50 pm

Chard1879 wrote:
springbok9 wrote:
Not all the time.
I was involved in a major incident in Aden close to 50 years ago. I remember the crew of the scout car but dont have a clue who was in the landrover we pulled out ( Different regiment, weekend soldiers ) time buggers up the memory banks even though we got really hammered with them a few days later.

Ask any politician what he spent on his parliamentary account................................... Very Happy 

Cheers
A Walk in the park compared to fighting non-stop for 15hrs in very close proximity of other men from other regiments. 

You are ignoring the fact that Jenkins had been there for a limited time before the battle, was of a different battalion, wasnt familiar with the men he was with and was reunited with his original regiment the day after.
Hardly condusive to knowing who was fighting on a roof or at a different point on the barricades. Hardly conducive to knowing very many names of the people around you.
There again years late in barracks there would allways have been who did what, where were you, I did so and so. Im sure thats where a heck of a lot of the information was swapped. Plus a lot of exageration.
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PostSubject: Re: Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records   Sun Aug 11, 2013 1:41 pm

Springbok wrote:
"Plus a lot of exageration"
Like being somewhere where you wasn't ?
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PostSubject: Re: Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records   Sun Aug 11, 2013 1:44 pm

Allways possible !
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PostSubject: Re: Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records   Sun Aug 11, 2013 2:43 pm

Another avenue to go down.

We're the bibles actually issued to each man by the ladies of natal personally, or were they issued to an officer who entered the names if and when.


Last edited by impi on Wed Aug 28, 2013 8:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records   Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:09 pm

agree John

Anyway, me, it would have marked me for life and all over the lies told by anyone, would have made me furious!
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PostSubject: Re: Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records   Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:22 pm

Last three posts deleted off topic!!!
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PostSubject: Re: Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records   Thu Aug 29, 2013 7:35 am

The private David Jenkins arrive before September 15, 2013, it will put you all in agreement Salute 
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PostSubject: Pte David Jenkins   Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:09 pm

Yes Pascal the rascal, when Julian gives the 'evidence', there will be quite a few doubters besides impi that will have to get their knives and forks ready.

It would be great for someone to arrange a large dinner table with them all sat at it with bibs on and knives and forks in hand, what a very funny video that would be. :[url=http://ww
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PostSubject: Re: Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records   Sat Aug 31, 2013 6:08 am

Yes it would end in general melee :[url=http://ww 

Impi is your brother enemy, he never relented, but with Julian, he will have a job the poor Impi ...:[url=http://ww 

In fact there is only me, who you did admit that Durnford was just passing in the camp and I agree with this, it is a theory that hold the road ... agree 

My poor Martin you're not out of the woods with this brave Impi ... :[url=http://ww 
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PostSubject: Re: Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records   Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:22 pm

I am not sure that it would be necessary for any of the "doubters" to eat humble pie, if Julian Whybra unveils some previously unpulished evidence to show that Jenkins did in fact fight at RD.
Impi and/or any of the other doubters may change their minds. This, they have a right to do and they may exercise this right at any time they wish, without needing to eat humble pie.
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PostSubject: Re: Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records   Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:51 pm

Future and sacred brainer for Julian, because there are members who are stubborn, but we must take it all as a joke ...
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PostSubject: Re: Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records   Sat Sep 07, 2013 10:31 pm

Pascal MAHE wrote:
The private David Jenkins arrive before September 15, 2013, it will put you all in agreement Salute 
8 more days Rolling Eyes
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PostSubject: Re: Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records   Sun Sep 08, 2013 6:33 am

We'll see when he gets here Very Happy 
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PostSubject: Re: Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records   Sun Sep 08, 2013 5:13 pm

As I said when I originally posted I WILL NOT be held to a timetable. I am expecting to deliver the doc to the printers on Monday 16th. The printers then have a two-week 'window' in which they can get it printed. I shall keep you posted as promised.
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PostSubject: Re: Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records   Sun Sep 08, 2013 5:28 pm

Good evening Julian

Better late than never, and there are not fires Very Happy 

Cheers

Pascal
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PostSubject: Re: Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records   Sun Sep 08, 2013 10:22 pm

Julian. Take your time, no rush. Must be hard, looking for evidence that doesn't exsist? I'm just hoping, there is something new in your publication, that we don't already know!

Regardless of what you may have heard?
I'm not the sort of person to rub salt in the wounds, if things go wrong for you! Rolling Eyes 
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PostSubject: Re: Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records   Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:02 am

This promises!Very Happy 
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PostSubject: Re: Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records   Sun Sep 15, 2013 8:30 pm

It's the 15th September Sad
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PostSubject: Re: Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records   Sun Sep 15, 2013 9:00 pm

i will gladly add to my small
collection this distinguished
historian's output,which i
feel is obtained through many
hours of solid research and
bloody hard graft.
cheers xhosa2000
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PostSubject: Re: Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records   Sun Sep 15, 2013 10:15 pm

Not getting involved
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PostSubject: Re: Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records   Sun Sep 15, 2013 10:47 pm

Moriarity, i thought your name was dave
cheers xhosa2000
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PostSubject: Studies in theZulu War Volume II   Mon Sep 16, 2013 4:21 pm

Hi
I've just got back from taking the doc to the printers. There are five articles in vol. II including the Jenkins one which runs to 30 pages alone. I hope those who've been waiting patiently for this will feel amply rewarded. I am very satisfied with it.
As soon as the first print run is ready I'll send 30 off to the Museum of the RW and 12 to Foyle's and I'll let you know when that has happened. At the same time I'll let you know a little more of the content. The printer reckons 7-10 days.
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PostSubject: Re: Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records   Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:49 pm

Outstanding,im chomping at the bit.
cheers xhosa
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PostSubject: Re: Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records   Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:52 pm

Julian Whybra wrote:
Hi
I've just got back from taking the doc to the printers.  There are five articles in vol. II including the Jenkins one which runs to 30 pages alone.  I hope those who've been waiting patiently for this will feel amply rewarded.  I am very satisfied with it.
As soon as the first print run is ready I'll send 30 off to the Museum of the RW and 12 to Foyle's and I'll let you know when that has happened.  At the same time I'll let you know a little more of the content. The printer reckons 7-10 days.
Bonsoir Monsieur Whybra,
A very good new!-
I am impatient to know the content of the vol.2
Cheers
Frédéric
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PostSubject: Re: Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records   Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:04 pm

ymob wrote:
Julian Whybra wrote:
Hi
I've just got back from taking the doc to the printers.  There are five articles in vol. II including the Jenkins one which runs to 30 pages alone.  I hope those who've been waiting patiently for this will feel amply rewarded.  I am very satisfied with it.
As soon as the first print run is ready I'll send 30 off to the Museum of the RW and 12 to Foyle's and I'll let you know when that has happened.  At the same time I'll let you know a little more of the content. The printer reckons 7-10 days.
Bonsoir Monsieur Whybra,
A very good new!-
I am impatient to know the content of the vol.2
Cheers
Frédéric
A lot of work for only forty two copies?
In this case, Mister WHybra YOU dont work for money!!!
Cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records   Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:50 pm

Impi, you have a 30 page argument coming your way! I don't think what we already know will cover 30 pages unless the font is sized 30.






Congratulations Julian. Must admit you have been missed! Looking for your in put into TMFH? 
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PostSubject: Re: Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records   Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:02 pm

chard1879,well said.xhosa
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PostSubject: Re: Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records   Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:46 am

Chard old boy. I hope Julian has produced evidence that places David Jenkins at RD. if he has, I have played my part well.

If you read my posts, all I have ever wanted is factual evidence, to show his presence at RD, as it was originaly based on a sketch, a Bible, and Brecon Museums say so. 

What JW has done? Is what should have been done prior to adding Jenkins to the roll. If I lose, I win either way. agree
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PostSubject: Re: Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records   Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:52 am

Impi

Nothing prevents you from doing the research for yourself - you could learn a lot and have enjoyment and sense of achievement as well.
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PostSubject: Re: Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records   Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:15 am

Possibly. But in the case of DJ. That should be left up to those, who decided to add him to the roll. Let's say, maybe they have put things right!
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PostSubject: Re: Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records   Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:17 am

Not getting involved  For once!!!!
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PostSubject: Re: Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records   Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:51 am

impi wrote:
Chard old boy. I hope Julian has produced evidence that places David Jenkins at RD. if he has, I have played my part well.

If you read my posts, all I have ever wanted is factual evidence, to show his presence at RD, as it was originaly based on a sketch, a Bible, and Brecon Museums say so. 

What JW has done? Is what should have been done prior to adding Jenkins to the roll. If I lose, I win either way. agree
Rolling Eyes 
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PostSubject: Re: Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records   Tue Sep 17, 2013 1:33 pm

Impi, please don't think JW undertook this research solely for your benefit?   As far as I"m aware it was already in the pipeline! Prior to this discussion taking place.
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PostSubject: Re: Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records   Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:01 pm

I woundn't be overly confident of that, Pete.
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PostSubject: Re: Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records   Thu Sep 26, 2013 4:31 pm

Been following this topic since this Summer - can't wait to see your opinions on Whybra's latest work.

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PostSubject: Re: Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records   Thu Sep 26, 2013 4:36 pm

impi wrote:
If I lose, I win either way. agree
No mate, either way, you lose:Salute: 

As far as I have seen, you have contributed no research, no original ideas or anything worth reading to this thread.

Your contribution has been on a level of a heckler, shouting comments anonymously from the back of the crowd as a great speaker orates. Like that of an unhelpful footy fan on the terraces, who shouts criticism at his own team, as they work and graft but remains quiet when they play well.

Either way, you lose.
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PostSubject: Re: Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records   Thu Sep 26, 2013 4:46 pm

The printer tells me the first run will be finished tomorrow so I should be able to get copies to the Museum by about Tuesday.
There are five essays in total - 85 pages -

The Cochrane Accounts of Isandhlwana - updated and 'unmangled' from how it first appeared

Reading between the Lines: An Analysis of the
Alleged ‘Pulleine-Cavaye Order’ of 22.1.1879 - an opportunity to lay out all the latest evidence on this forgery

More Noble 24th: An Addendum to Norman
Holme’s Monumental Work - updated and expanded since it first appeared over a decade ago.

Moderation and Forbearance: South African Confederation
and the Origins of the Zulu War - a fresh view on the subject, I hope Coll's pleased with it

Private David Jenkins and a Contemporary Roll of Rorke’s
Drift Defenders - originally supposed to be 8 pages long but with the discovery of a new letter and the realization that a contemporary Roll of RD defenders needed to be found it assumed much larger proportions and has nudged an article on the Royal Artillery into the next volume

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PostSubject: Re: Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records   Thu Sep 26, 2013 11:18 pm

Whats the purchase price, Julian.
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PostSubject: Re: Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records   Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:53 am

That'll be for Bill at the museum to decide but I would imagine the same price as Vol I.
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PostSubject: Re: Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records   Fri Sep 27, 2013 11:05 am

Hi All

As Julian has said - they will retail for the same price as Vol 1 ie £12.50 a copy (plus £2.25P&P). Total £14.75.

Probably available from the end of next week.

AND Julian has promised to sign each copy !

Bill
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Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 70
Location : Cape Town South Africa

PostSubject: Re: Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records   Fri Sep 27, 2013 11:08 am

Hi Bill
Will they be listed on the web site shop? Or how would you prefer payment? I cant remember what I did last time, sorry senility creeping in ever faster.

Cheers

PS you owe me a delivery address
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Frank Allewell

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Posts : 6501
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 70
Location : Cape Town South Africa

PostSubject: Re: Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records   Fri Sep 27, 2013 11:09 am

And as luck would have it the value of the Rand has dropped through the floor, from R9 to the GBP to closing on R17. any one wants a holiday in SA do it in the near future.
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bill cainan



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PostSubject: Re: Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records   Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:56 pm

Hi

You can order by phone:
01874 613310

or via our email address:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

or via our address:
The Regimental Museum of The Royal Welsh
The Barracks
The Watton
Brecon
Powys
LD3 7EB

It will eventually go on the shop site, but we don't tend to put them on until they actually arrive in the Museum.

Bill
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