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Lt. General Sir J.G. Wolseley, General Officer Commanding
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 Garnet Wolseley

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horsefixer



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PostSubject: Garnet Wolseley   Sat Jul 20, 2013 11:53 pm

Forgive me if I've asked this before. But can anyone give me a description of Garnet Wolseley and his character/personality?
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PostSubject: Re: Garnet Wolseley   Sun Jul 21, 2013 8:46 am

Horsefixer,

Garnet Joseph Wolseley was the model for Gilbert & Sullivan's "The Modern Major-General" read the lyrics and you should get a feel.

Physically he was below average height, even for the period.  Blind in one eye - which is why he used a telescope rather than a binoculars - from a wound sustained in the Crimea.  Not unlike Wellington he was an Irishman who disliked other Irishmen.

He was vain and jealous of others.  'Punch' portrayed him a strutting peacock.

He had a connection with Natal having previously served as the Lieutenant-Governor of the Colony, at which time he clashed with Anthony Durnford.  

He had little time for those outside of his circle of associates 'The Ashanti Ring' which included Wood; Butler; Butler; Brackenbury; Gifford & Maurice.  Should one of the 'Ring' under-perform they would be shunned; J. C. Russell of the Mounted Infantry for example.

Despite he military skills, he was not in my opinion a nice piece of work.

'Jimu
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PostSubject: Re: Garnet Wolseley   Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:48 pm

Thanks,'jimu, helpful as always. In his book Isandlwana, Greaves mentions that there were officers with various missing limbs. Do you know who they were? Also how did Smith Dorrien injure his knee? If you have any other physical descriptions/ personalities I'd appreciate those.
Cetshwayo maybe?
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PostSubject: Re: Garnet Wolseley   Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:54 pm

Horsefixer,

If you pm with a list of those you are interested in I sure can assist.

To my knowledge S-D didn't injure his knee during the Zulu campaign.

Regards,

'Jimu
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PostSubject: Re: Garnet Wolseley   Sun Jul 21, 2013 2:19 pm

Possibly mixing up SD with Coghill, if so the injury occured when he was tryi g to catch a chicken while out on a patrol with CHELMSFORD.

Cheers
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horsefixer



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PostSubject: Re: Garnet Wolseley   Sun Jul 21, 2013 2:33 pm

Smith Dorrien was injured some time prior to the AZ war, whether military or domestic I do not know. Just wondered what happened. Sounds fairly severe as it prevented him taking part in some physical activities
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PostSubject: Re: Garnet Wolseley   Sun Jul 21, 2013 3:19 pm

Horsefixer,

S-D was taken ill with typhoid at Helpmekaar and nearly lost his life, but that was after Isandlwana.

There's certainly no mention of a knee injury in 'Memories of Forty-Eight Years Service' nor in either of the two biographies I have on S-D.

He was involved in boating accident in Ireland in 1878, but did not sustain any injury from it, he was able to swim to the shore despite the conditions and being hampered by heavy clothing. This obviously helped when he repeated the performance in the Buffalo River on 22nd January 1879.

'Jimu
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PostSubject: Re: Garnet Wolseley   Sun Jul 21, 2013 3:47 pm

Got this on Wikipedia but maybe it was after AZ war
During this time, he forged a lifelong friendship with the then Major Kitchener. He met Gordon more than once, but his bad knee kept him off the expedition to relieve Khartoum.
Although Smith-Dorrien was perfectly urbane and, by the standards of the day, kind-hearted towards his troops, he was notorious for furious outbursts of bad temper, which could last for hours before his equilibrium was restored. It has been suggested that the pain from a knee injury was one cause of his ill temper.
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PostSubject: Re: Garnet Wolseley   Sun Jul 21, 2013 4:22 pm

Horsefixer,

S-D's service in Egypt (1882) and the Sudan (1884-6) postdates his service in 1879.

Ray63 did make the following comment on S-D.


Ray63 wrote:
Smith-Dorrien accompanied his battalion to India in February 1883, but two months later was invalided to Britain with a recurring ailment described as a knee injury sustained when hunting.


As to Wiki' you can't trust everything you read on it.

'Jimu
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PostSubject: Re: Garnet Wolseley   Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:22 pm

I was looking at at Wolseley's career, quite impressive.

"Wolseley, FM Garnet Joseph, Viscount Wolseley (1833-1913), the inspiration for the ‘very model of a modern major general’ in Gilbert and Sullivan's operetta The Pirates of Penzance, Wolseley was popularly described by the Victorians as ‘Our Only General’. Lacking means to purchase his commissions, Wolseley sought to advance in the army through gallantry. In less than eight years he rose to brevet lieutenant colonel but at the cost of a severe leg wound in Burma and the loss of his left eye in the Crimea. His wider military reputation was established by publishing a practical guide to soldiering, The Soldier's Pocket Book, in 1869 and leading an expedition against a rebellion on Canada's Red River in 1870. He then commanded another expedition to punish the Ashanti in West Africa, his capture of their capital at Kumasi in February 1873 being rewarded with his major generalcy. He was British high commissioner in both Natal in 1875 and on Cyprus in 1879 before returning to South Africa to conclude the Zulu war in 1879. He became QMG of the army in 1880 and adjutant-general in 1882. His great military achievement was the occupation of Egypt in the latter year, culminating in the battle of Tel-el-Kebir. Wolseley was promoted general and elevated to the peerage as a result but, three years later, his relief expedition failed to reach Khartoum in time to rescue Charles Gordon from the dervishes. Advancement to a viscountcy was small consolation for failing to save his friend. He was promoted field marshal in 1894. Though a political conservative, Wolseley was regarded as dangerously radical in terms of his advocacy of military reform and his advancement was strongly opposed by the army's C-in-C, the Duke of Cambridge and his cousin, Queen Victoria. Wolseley's reliance on a small group of handpicked subordinates in his campaigns—the so-called Ashanti Ring—also bred resentment within the army among those excluded. Nevertheless, Wolseley became C-in-C in 1895 but ill health impaired his performance and he was blamed for the early failures of his protégés in the Second Boer War. He retired in 1900 and his influence contributed to the professionalization of the army that he had been too old to achieve.
Bibliography
Lehmann, Joseph, All Sir Garnet (London, 1964)
Ian Beckett.

Biography: Garnet Wolseley

One of the most popular British generals of the nineteenth century, Garnet Wolseley (1833-1913) is little known today outside of military and academic circles. Recognized in his own time for resourcefulness, bravery, and strong organizational skills, Wolseley transformed the British army into a modern fighting force.
Garnet Joseph Wolseley was born in the city of Golden Bridge, near Dublin, Ireland, on June 4, 1833. His father was a retired military man turned shopkeeper, also named Garnet. His mother was the daughter of an Irish landlord named Frances Smith. Wolseley inherited strong religious beliefs from his Protestant mother and an interest in the military from his father. After the death of his father, when Garnet was seven, his mother was left with only a small income to provide for her seven children.
Wolseley traced his ancestors to Danish marauders who invaded England before the arrival of the Normans. He wrote in The Story of a Soldier's Life, "the fact of knowing that I inherited a very old name had a marked influence upon my boyhood and early life. It was a spur to the boundless ambition that filled my brain in my youth, and it has been an active factor in the events of my subsequent career."
Wolseley learned surveying and draftsmanship. Through the intercession of his mother with the Duke of Wellington, he was made an ensign in the British army at the age of 18. In those days, such ranks were usually bought. However, his mother's pleading letter had the desired effect. As soon as he entered the army, Wolseley transferred to a less costly regiment that was going to India. Without money, he believed that the way to make a name for himself was to be brave to the point of foolhardiness. Believing that God was saving him for a special destiny, he repeatedly threw himself in harm's way.
In his first battle in Burma, Wolseley was severely wounded in the thigh, but refused to leave the field until his men had won. Earlier that day, he had been at the front of the advance guard and had then volunteered to help lead a charge at the enemy's defenses. Wolseley wrote he was in ecstasy until he fell into a pit lined with stakes, which he narrowly missed. He climbed out only to discover that his men had retreated. Wolseley jumped back into the hole, and later ran for the rear. He was so humiliated that he volunteered to lead a second charge regarded as suicidal. In this second charge, he was badly wounded. A doctor managed to save his life, but for weeks it was unclear whether he would live or die. During this time, Wolseley contracted cholera. His bravery was recorded in official dispatches, and he was promoted to lieutenant.
Wolseley returned home to convalesce, then transferred to the 90th Light Infantry, a unit which was full of upper-class gentlemen. When he recovered, he longed to see action again. His chance came in 1854 when England, France, and Turkey fought against Russia in the Crimean War (1854-56). Wolseley was made a captain at the age of 21, but the authorities later withdrew this order because of his youth. When he threatened to resign his commission, Wolseley was reinstated as a captain. He joined the Royal Engineers who worked to build and repair the trenches. For amusement, Wolseley became a sharpshooter, killing a number of Russians. He wrote in All Sir Garnet, "man shooting is the finest sport of all; there is a certain amount of infatuation about it, the more you kill the more you wish to kill." In a cannon attack, Wolseley was slightly wounded in the leg. Because he decided to stand up during bombardments, he was considered a very brave, if not foolhardy, man.
While in the Crimea, Wolseley met Charles "Chinese" Gordon, a fearless fighter and religious Christian whose qualities appealed to him. He would later try to rescue Gordon at Khartoum, in the Sudan. While extending trenches, Wolseley was slightly wounded in the leg once again. In another Russian attack, his face was torn up, he lost his sight in one eye, and was wounded in the right leg. He was recommended for promotion to major, but this was denied because Wolseley had not spent the required six years in service. However, he was given the position of deputy-assistant quartermaster general.
Wolseley served in India during the mutiny of 1857-59 and China in 1860. In India, he was commanded to reconnoiter a heavily fortified building. Though not expected to capture it, he did. Wolseley then proceeded to capture a second building, without orders to do so. At first, his commander was furious. The next day he recommended that Wolseley be promoted to lieutenant colonel, which likely made him the youngest man of that rank. In the China War, he participated in the capture of the Summer Palace in Peking. His first book, Narrative of the War with China in 1860, details his adventures there.
After less than nine years, Wolseley had served with distinction in four campaigns, been mentioned in official army dispatches nine times, and had risen to the rank of colonel. In an age where noble birth and the purchase of ranks for money yielded many officers, he had risen by merit alone. For his bravery or foolhardiness, as well as his ingenuity and calmness under fire, his superiors had taken notice. During his time in the military, Wolseley witnessed the lack of organization and training of the British army and felt it his duty to rectify this situation.
Sent to North America
In 1861, during the American civil war, Wolseley was sent to Canada after the Union army took two Confederate diplomats from a British ship. His assignment was to help plan for possible war against the Union forces. Although no war was declared, he was to spend a decade in Canada. In order to assess the plans of the Confederacy, Wolseley decided without orders to visit the South. Passing in secret from New York to Virginia, he visited the commander of the southern forces, Robert E. Lee. Wolseley wrote that he went there to judge the condition of its people, the strength of its government, and the organization of its armies. His article "A Month's Visit to the Confederate Headquarters" was published in Blackwood's magazine in January 1863. As he did not visit the Union headquarters, his sympathies appeared to be with the South.
During the remainder of his stay in Canada, he read a lot of military history and wrote the classic The Soldier's Pocketbook for Field Service, in which he details how to prepare soldiers for anything they might experience in the field, from surveying and reconnoitering to the care and feeding of elephants and the proper method of burial at sea. This book was both highly popular and highly controversial. While many soldiers needed and loved it, the book offended many of the higher-ups because it talked about the lack of preparation and the inefficiency of the British army. He also offended both the public and the military elite by suggesting that soldiers be taught to despise those in civil life and by suggesting that false news be planted in newspapers to deceive the enemy, thus anticipating twentieth century tactics.
Although he had resolved to remain a bachelor, Wolseley married Louisa Erskine, in September 1867. Though not rich, she was his intellectual equal. He frequently consulted her about his plans and ideas.
In 1870, Louis Riel, in an attempt to prevent the North West Territories from being incorporated into Canada, proclaimed himself President of the Republic of the North-West, and led an insurgency. Wolseley was dispatched to crush the rebellion. He marched his men hundreds of miles through the wilderness to capture the rebel stronghold at Fort Garry without the loss of a man. However, Riel had fled. As recorded in Letters of Wolseley, a letter to his wife revealed Wolseley's hatred for Riel: "I hope Riel will have bolted. I have such a horror of rebels and vermin, that my treatment of him might not be approved by the civil powers."
Sent to Quell Ashanti Rebellion
After his return to England as a hero, Wolseley was put on half pay due to his criticism of the army in his book. However, Edward Cardwell appointed him assistant adjutant general in the War Office in 1871, to assist with army reforms.
Wolseley's next assignment was to put down the Ashanti rebellion (1873-74) in West Africa. He was given both military and civilian authority, but only 35 hand picked men who later were known as the Wolseley or Ashanti Ring. Wolseley recruited a native force and overcame climate, terrain, and King Koffee. After having burned the Ashanti capital and accepting the surrender of the king, he returned home to a hero's welcome. He was made a major general and given 25,000 pounds and a knighthood.
In 1875, Wolseley was sent to South Africa as both governor and commanding general of the province of Natal, which included the Zulu homelands. He was transferred to the newly-acquired island of Cyprus in 1878, as its first high commissioner. Because of the Zulu uprising, he was returned to South Africa, where he oversaw the capture of King Cetowayo of Zululand and Sekukuni of Transvaal. Returning to England in 1880, Wolseley was appointed quartermaster general, then adjutant general, a key position for the supervision of military training.
Failed to Rescue Gordon
In 1882, Wolseley was sent to Egypt to counter the nationalist uprising of Ahmed Arabi after the massacre at Alexandria, Egypt. The revolt was suppressed and Cairo occupied, after a brilliant feint and attack against Arabi at Tell el Kebir. For this campaign, Wolseley was made a baron and given 30,000 pounds.
In 1884, the Mahdi or anointed one, had united most of the Sudan against Egypt and British interests. Wolseley sent General Gordon to evacuate Egyptians and English citizens in the Sudan. He had met Gordon in the Crimea and had written of him in The American Civil War, "I admired him with a reverence I had never felt for any other man." When Gordon postponed the evacuation and was surrounded by the Mahdi's troops, the British government sent Wolseley to rescue him. Despite brilliant maneuvers and strategy, his advance troops arrived two days after Khartoum had fallen and Gordon had been beheaded. Though Wolseley felt defeated, he was made a viscount and escaped blame.
In 1890, Wolseley was made commander-in-chief for Ireland, during which time he wrote The Life of Marlborough and The Decline and Fall of Napoleon. In 1894, he was raised to field marshal. The following year, he was promoted to commander-in-chief of the British army. Wolseley oversaw the army's mobilization for the Boer War and continued to try to implement reform, against considerable opposition. In 1900, he resigned from the army.
In 1903, the two volumes of Wolseley's autobiography were published. They were verbose and sketchy, due to his failing memory. It has been suggested that he may have been suffering from Alzheimer's disease. During his last years, Wolseley lived a reclusive lifestyle. He died at his winter residence in Mentone, France, on March 26, 1913.
Almost single-handedly, Wolseley transformed the British army from a gentleman's army into a modern fighting machine. While intelligent, capable, and farsighted, he was also rather vain and arrogant. Wolseley was an extremely popular leader. Gilbert and Sullivan lampooned him in song as "The Very Image of a Modern Major-General" in the Pirates of Penzance. An automobile, the Garnet Wolseley, was named for him. Although of humble origins, Wolseley ended his life as a viscount, socializing with some of the most influential people of his age."
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John Young

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PostSubject: Re: Garnet Wolseley   Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:00 am

Littlehand,

There are some very strange claims in the second of the two pieces you have inserted above.

Littlehand wrote:
Wolseley's next assignment was to put down the Ashanti rebellion (1873-74) in West Africa. He was given both military and civilian authority, but only 35 hand picked men who later were known as the Wolseley or Ashanti Ring. Wolseley recruited a native force and overcame climate, terrain, and King Koffee. After having burned the Ashanti capital and accepting the surrender of the king, he returned home to a hero's welcome. He was made a major general and given 25,000 pounds and a knighthood.

Whoever authored the piece appears to have forgotten the following when he mentions 35 men: the 42nd (Royal Highland) Regiment - Black Watch; the 2nd Battalion, the Rifle Brigade (Prince Consort's Own); the 2nd Battalion, 23rd (Royal Welsh Fusiliers) Regiment; the 2nd West India Regiment, as well as marines and sailors from the landing brigades from H.M.S's Active, Rattlesnake & Tamar.

They also seem to have problems with the spellings of the names of African kings - King Kofi Kalkaree has become King Koffee and King Cetshwayo - Cetowayo.

With regards to the statement: He joined the Royal Engineers who worked to build and repair the trenches. That seems to imply he left the infantry and joined the R.E. whereas he was only seconded to the R.E.

As to An automobile, the Garnet Wolseley, was named for him. His brother Frederick owned The Wolseley Sheep Shearing Machine Company, which had on its books a certain Thomas Austin who was keen to expand further into machinery and automobiles. In 1901 Austin was made Managing Director of the Wolseley Tool and Motor Car Company funded by Vickers & Maxim, the company retained the Wolseley name despite Frederick's death in 1899. To my knowledge there was no car named the Garnet Wolseley.

John Y.
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PostSubject: Garnet Wolseley    Wed Aug 27, 2014 12:27 pm

Wikipedia methinks ! ? :scratch:90th
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PostSubject: Re: Garnet Wolseley   Wed Aug 27, 2014 12:43 pm

This is the caption to the Spy Cartoon which appeared in the magazine 'Vanity Fair' dated April 18, 1874 (i.e just after he returned from the Ashanti expedition)

MEN OF THE DAY
No. 83

Major General
SIR GARNET WOLSELEY Bart KCB KCMG

A soldier who has seen much service, who is young and able, who has been successful, and who has been rewarded in full proportion to his achievements, is a phenomenon in the British Army. Yet such a one is Sir Garnet Wolseley. And what is more remarkable is that he owes his advancement and his rewards, not to any family influence or any backstairs prompting, but to himself alone. Like all successful men, he has gained much from Fortune; yet he owes it not her, for what help he has had from her has been by himself boldly taken, not borrowed or given while he slept. For indeed he has never slept since he began life. Most men might be or might do something did they but seize one chance in ten of those they have, but this is a man who has never missed a single chance. From the time when, a lad of eighteen, he entered the Army, he has adventured himself and spent himself wholly in every direction that offered. Before he was twenty he had led a storming party in Burmah, and received a desperate wound and an honourable mention in despatches. The next year he was in the Crimea, where he was wounded again, and would indeed have been left for dead had he not himself loudly asserted his vitality. Hurried off immediately after to India, he was in most of the great battles of the Mutiny, including that which relieved Lucknow. He was in the China War too, and by that time he had already made his value felt to so good a purpose that he had become a Lieutenant-Colonel at the very early age of twenty-seven. A little later in Canada, where he soon became almost idolised, and where, after much playing at hide and seek with the Fenian invaders, he established a reputation as an independent expeditionary general by going up the country and back again without loss or drunkenness of a man. Being looked upon thenceforth as a General of promise, he was put at a desk in the Horse Guards as Assistant-Adjutant-General; but even here his restless activity asserted itself in various ways, and by the use of the pen he kept still before the world the man who for the moment was divorced from the sword. Equally at home in the personal economy of the soldier, and the more extended problems of high politics, Sir Garnet (as he now already was) wrote upon both with equal shrewdness and success, as he would have written upon any subject in or out of creation rather than do nothing. A quick, eager man, with a feeling of power, he could not rest, but must ever be asserting his existence, pressing between other men's shoulders, and pushing to the front with the confidence of one persuaded that he shall play a worthy part there.
At last his great opportunity came. The violence and lawlessness of the Government had brought about a war on the Gold Coast, Sir Garnet had written some very excellent papers on it, and he seemed marked out in every way as the man who could deal with the difficulty. The Ministry sent him out therefore in the belief that he would organise the native levies and make Peace. But Sir Garnet knew better than that, and before he had been a fortnight on the coast he wrote home from British troops and made war. As there was just then nothing in the newspapers, all the Editors with one accord clamoured for immediate despatch of regiments and special correspondents. It was felt that here was a great opportunity for England and the Penny Papers. The country had lost reputation in Europe by falsely betraying France, by submitting to a gross violation of public faith on the part of Russia, and by making a fraudulent bargain to pay tribute to America. Here was an opportunity to regain all the lost position by fighting a mob of Ashantees armed with seven-and-sixpenny muskets. So the troops were sent and the papers thenceforth were filled with more print than ten Waterloos would have produced. The English prestige has been, as was anticipated, entirely regained by it; and it is now patent to all the world that having burnt Coomassie, we can when we will burn also St. Petersburg or Berlin.
Of Sir Garnet's share in this business there is only to be said that he did the work he undertook to do right well. Heart and soul he threw himself into it, as is his wont. To the Ashantees he was known as "the man who won't stop" and having with him a few splendid troops and a certain splendid officer, he met and conquered not only the enemy, which was little, but the climate, the country, the distance and the time, which were the greatest elements in the problem he had to solve. He has shown himself a great General on a small scale, he has earned thoroughly well the rewards he has gained and to those who cavil at their amount it may be answered that he has received them as an advanced payment for the services which all men look to him to render if ever a really serious occasion should arise.
Sir Garnet is of genial and engaging commerce, modest in private life and popular, of handsome face, of slight spare build that denotes the hard-worker, and of the small stature that Nature commonly gives to great men. One day he too will be a great man should opportunity ever be afforded him more real than one created by journalistic famine. For he greater qualities in him then yet suspected, or than he has yet had occasion to show. He has time before him, for he is yet forty-one. Although born in Ireland he comes of an old Staffordshire family, and it is not one of his least claims.



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PostSubject: Re: Garnet Wolseley   Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:11 pm

Why did I think, he had, had a mundane Millitary career. Just goes to show, your never to old to learn!
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PostSubject: Re: Garnet Wolseley   Thu Aug 28, 2014 12:43 am

African's or Indian's JY....
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PostSubject: Re: Garnet Wolseley   Thu Aug 28, 2014 1:49 am

You could always tell a Wolseley car at night, the name on top of the grille was always lit up.

They made some nice posh looking cars, I think they were taken over in the 70's.

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PostSubject: Re: Garnet Wolseley   Thu Aug 28, 2014 8:35 am

African's or Indian's, is a reference to the intense rivalry between
senior officers who mainly served either in Africa or India. Wolseley
recruited his own ' ring ' of staff.
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PostSubject: Re: Garnet Wolseley   Thu Aug 28, 2014 8:39 am

Goods post LH & Kenny..

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PostSubject: Re: Garnet Wolseley   Fri Aug 29, 2014 12:47 am

kwajimu1879 wrote:
Horsefixer,

S-D was taken ill with typhoid at Helpmekaar and nearly lost his life, but that was after Isandlwana.

There's certainly no mention of a knee injury in 'Memories of Forty-Eight Years Service' nor in either of the two biographies I have on S-D.

He was involved in boating accident in Ireland in 1878, but did not sustain any injury from it, he was able to swim to the shore despite the conditions and being hampered by heavy clothing.  This obviously helped when he repeated the performance in the Buffalo River on 22nd January 1879.

'Jimu

Indeed, IIRC he had a hand in nearly drowning as well as saving his sister's life that day. He more or less implied guilt helped motivate him to join the army (i.e. to prove to his father he was not useless.) Or that's just my barnyard psychology...
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PostSubject: Re: Garnet Wolseley   Fri Aug 29, 2014 12:50 am

kwajimu1879 wrote:
Not unlike Wellington he was an Irishman who disliked other Irishmen.

As has been mentioned in this forum before, Wellington did not regard himself as an Irishman just because he was born there.
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PostSubject: Re: Garnet Wolseley   Fri Aug 29, 2014 11:52 am

6pdr.,

Arthur Wellesley was certainly a born Irishman and his family had been in the island of Ireland since at least 1500, (although there is some evidence of a 12th-Century relative in Ireland) that certainly qualifies him to be an Irishman in my book.

His problem, in my opinion, stemmed from being a member of The Ascendancy.  A Protestant ruling class the forebears of whom were selected from landed families from within the Church of England and the Church of Ireland and imposed on the mainly Roman-Catholic rural population of Ireland as their overlords.

By 1829, whilst Prime Minister, he made much of the fact that he was Irish in his attempt to introduce Catholic Emancipation led to the Catholic Relief Act of 1829.

(By-the-way or should that be btw, I had to look up IIRC to discover what that meant.)

John Y.
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PostSubject: Re: Garnet Wolseley   Fri Aug 29, 2014 11:59 am

John Young wrote:
6pdr.,

Arthur Wellesley was certainly a born Irishman and his family had been in the island of Ireland since at least 1500, (although there is some evidence of a 12th-Century relative in Ireland) that certainly qualifies him to be an Irishman in my book.
John Y.

Mister Young,
In your book?
Please can you say us more?
Cheers
Frédéric
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John Young

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PostSubject: Re: Garnet Wolseley   Fri Aug 29, 2014 12:04 pm

Frédéric,

Sorry I have used a slang expression there.

If you drop me an e-mail I'll give you a hint though.

Regards,

John Y.
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PostSubject: Re: Garnet Wolseley   Fri Aug 29, 2014 12:35 pm

John Young wrote:
Frédéric,

Sorry I have used a slang expression there.

If you drop me an e-mail I'll give you a hint though.

Regards,

John Y.

Mister Young,
I have sent you a PM, then an e-mail.
Cheers.
Frédéric
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6pdr

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PostSubject: Re: Garnet Wolseley   Fri Aug 29, 2014 2:41 pm

John Young wrote:
His problem, in my opinion, stemmed from being a member of The Ascendancy.  A Protestant ruling class the forebears of whom were selected from landed families from within the Church of England and the Church of Ireland and imposed on the mainly Roman-Catholic rural population of Ireland as their overlords.

Well this is the thing about "identity politics." Here in the contemporary USA one is what one declares one is; especially if one can make the case in aggrieved fashion. In this case the root of Arthur's "identity claim" seems to be privilege. Members of "The Ascendency" would certainly have a difficult time feeling aggrieved by history. Wellesley wasn't merely being a class snob however -- his attitude was his essential to his role/place in life. He was brought up to be a member of an occupying army. He is of course better known for his battles in India and Europe. For a far longer period however he oversaw a colonial army that was in the throes of learning how to boss around the majority of the planet.
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PostSubject: Re: Garnet Wolseley   Fri Aug 29, 2014 3:10 pm

6pdr.,

6pdr. wrote:
He was brought up to be a member of an occupying army.

Care to explain the above statement given that the Union between England and Ireland pre-dates the Act of Union brought in by King James I?

or this one:

6pdr. wrote:
For a far longer period however he oversaw a colonial army that was in the throes of learning how to boss around the majority of the planet.

When was that? Do you mean when he was Prime Minister?

This all seems very off topic to me given the subject of this post is Garnet Joseph Wolseley. Off Topic

John Y.
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PostSubject: Re: Garnet Wolseley   Fri Aug 29, 2014 3:41 pm

hey how do i delete my account
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