'B' Company on the Slope

Posts : 3362 Join date : 2009-03-03 Location : Devon

Can anyone name the soldiers on the Slope?

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Furthest left CS Frank Bourne, Far left on front row, Bromhead. Behind the fourth from Bromhead is John Williams.
To Frank Bourne's left is Pte. Michael Minehan, the company's right marker. The Sergeant two along
from Bromhead's left is Henry E. Gallagher, and the man two along from Gallagher's left is Sgt. Joseph Windridge.
The man to John William's left is John Jobbins. The man on the extreme upper right is Drummer Patrick Hayes.
Hook is at the back right in the middle. Two down diagonally to Hook's right is George (Orchard) Edwards.
Five along from Edwards's left is (allegedly) Robert Jones and to his left William Jones
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Subject: Re: 'B' Company on the Slope Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:09 pm

Sorry 1879Graves my eyes are not as good as yours, even with glasses.

We must not forget Pip the dog, who belonged to Lt. Charles d'Aguilar Pope, 2nd Battalion 24th.Foot Regiment. He left the dog in the care of Surgeon Reynolds when he left with the centre column.Pip played his part in the defence by running up and down the barricades and yelping when the Zulu's were approaching. It is suggested that Reynolds became so attached to the dog that it was buried with him in the RC section of Kensal Green Cemetery in London.

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Subject: Re: 'B' Company on the Slope Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:03 am

Don't wish to be a pain. But could some possibly show numbers and names of these soldiers on photo. This can be done in Microsoft paint. Would be appreciated.

Posts : 3362 Join date : 2009-03-03 Location : Devon

I have found a list of members of B Company, all we have to do now is put name to the faces.

B Company, 2nd Battalion, 24th Foot
Lt. Bromhead; Colour Sergeant Bourne; Sergeants Gallagher, Smith, Windridge; Lance Sergeant Thomas; Corporals Allen, French, Key, Lyons, Saxty; Lance Corporals Bessell, Halley; Drummers Hayes, Keefe; Privates Ashton, Barry, Bennett, Bly, Bromwich, Buckley, Burke, Bushe, Caine, Camp, Chester, Clayton, Cole, Collins, Connors, Timothy Connors, Davies, Davis, Daw, Deacon, Deane, Dick, Dicks, Driscoll, Dunbar, Edwards, Fagan, Gee, Hagan, Harris, Hitch, Hook, Jobbins, Evan Jones, John Jones (970), John Jones (1179), Robert Jones, William Jones, Judge, Kears, Kiley, Lewis, Lines, Lloyd, Lockhart, Lodge, Lynch, Marshall, Martin, Mason, Mireham, Moffatt, Augustus Morris, Frederick Morris, Morrison, Murphy, Neville, Norris, Osborne, Parry, Pitt, Robinson, Ruck, Savage, Shearman, Shergold, Smith, Stevens, Tasker, Frederick Taylor, Thomas Taylor, Thomas, Thompson, Michael Tobin, Patrick Tobin, Todd, Tongue, Wall, Whetton, Wilcox, John Williams, Joseph Williams, John Williams, Thomas Williams, Caleb Wood.

Subject: Re: 'B' Company on the Slope Sun Sep 27, 2009 12:32 am

Graves1879.
I have taken a section of this photo, what I would like to know. Is this a dog? I have asked two People one says No the other Yes. There has been some issues about what dog/ dogs were at Rorkes Drift one was left with Reynolds by an officer who was killed at Isandlwana, (Will have to look his name up) But the for now is that a dog or not in the this photo.

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Subject: Re: 'B' Company on the Slope Sun Sep 27, 2009 1:03 am

It’s not easy to establish who’s who. But this is how I see it.
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(1) CS Frank Bourne, (2) Bromhead. (3) John Williams. (4) Pte. Michael Minehan, (5) Henry E. Gallagher, (6) Sgt. Joseph Windridge.
(7) John Jobbins. (8) Drummer Patrick Hayes. (9) Hook (10) George (Orchard) Edwards. (11) (allegedly) Robert Jones (12) William Jones.

Furthest left CS Frank Bourne, Far left on front row, Bromhead. Behind the fourth from Bromhead is John Williams.
To Frank Bourne's left is Pte. Michael Minehan, the company's right marker. The Sergeant two along
from Bromhead's left is Henry E. Gallagher, and the man two along from Gallagher's left is Sgt. Joseph Windridge.
The man to John William's left is John Jobbins. The man on the extreme upper right is Drummer Patrick Hayes.
Hook is at the back right in the middle. Two down diagonally to Hook's right is George (Orchard) Edwards.
Five along from Edwards's left is (allegedly) Robert Jones and to his left William Jones

Posts : 1603 Join date : 2009-09-21

The out-line looks like a dog. But can't be sure. But just out of interest, what happen to Lion the Regimental Dog 1st. Btn. 24th Regiment. That was wounded at Isandlwana. Did it end up at Rorkes Drift.

Subject: lion? Sun Sep 27, 2009 5:40 am

hi Dave .
A dog named FLIP escaped from isandlwana back to RORKES DRIFT, he was owned by COL .H.J .DEAGACHER ,
flip was a dalmation. This from the graphic and re-printed in IAN KNIGHT"S BOOK, COMPANION TO THE ZULU WAR.
" a splendid animal who was in the thick of the fighting on 22nd jan and was fortunate enough to escape from the carnage
and belonged to the late LT. DALY of the 24th regt, who was one of the victims of the disaster . " DON" is still suffering from
two large assegai wounds inflicted by the zulus , and he will probably carry his honourable scars to the end of his life ""
There is a distinct possiblity that " don " is a mis- transcription of " lion ", the 1/ 24ths dog, a known survivor of isandlwana
who today has an impressive memorial in county kilkenny in IRELAND

cheers 90th.

Posts : 3362 Join date : 2009-03-03 Location : Devon

Admin

I would have to say No Dog.

Subject: Re: 'B' Company on the Slope Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:59 am

I have tryed to out line the what i think is a dog.

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Posts : 3362 Join date : 2009-03-03 Location : Devon

Admin

The more I blow up the photo, the more I see a dog. I now have to agree with you, it is a dog. Shocked

If it is, no one has mentioned it before scratch

Subject: B company on the slope Sun Sep 27, 2009 12:53 pm

hi 1879graves/ pete.
I am seeing TWO dogs directly behind your dog !( between the soldier in front of the dog and the next soldier on his right)
all i can make out are their faces. And another problem , this photo appears in the UNIFORMS AND WEAPONS OF THE
ZULUWAR by CHRISTOPHER WILKINSON-LATHAM, it states BROMHEAD LOWER RIGHT WITH DOG "PIP" AT HIS FEET
WEARING AN OTHER RANKS TUNIC !!!!. scratch

cheers 90th

Guest

Hi All,

We've got to remember that after 22nd / 23rd Jan 1879, many of B company were re-shuffled into different companies and sent to various different places. The B company men shown in this photo are only either the ones who remained in B company after the re-shuffle or the ones who had reached Pinetown and re-assembled by September of that year. Many of them were probably still en-route to Pinetown.

Cheers
Bookworm

Subject: Re: 'B' Company on the Slope Sun Sep 27, 2009 9:19 pm

Thanks Bookworm .So unless we find a photo, showing the names of all the men in the photo we will never really know who they are. I wonder but what means were those few identified.

Could that be Lion, As I said i'm not sure waht happen to him. Was he taken to Pine-Town ??

Posts : 2593 Join date : 2009-04-24

Admin /1879Graves. I agree that is a dog. Bookworm as pointed out some of those soldiers may not even have been at Rorkes Drift, So yes until we find the actual photo naming the individuals we will never know who’s who.

Is It Lion? Who Knows

Would be nice if it were.

90th As for the other two dogs I can’t see them. (Sorry)

Posts : 2558 Join date : 2009-04-06 Age : 61 Location : UK

As anyone seen a photo of Lion.

Posts : 600 Join date : 2010-01-07 Location : UK

hi

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some of the soldiers of B Company named on the picture

thanks joe

Posts : 30 Join date : 2010-01-14

Definitely not a dog..in fact another defender almost obscured.
The dog that does appear in the photograph is certainly not that which belonged to JH Reynolds - a photo of which appears in The Rorke's Drift Doctor by Lee Stevenson.

Subject: photo of lion Regimental dog 1st Bn 24 foot Sun Jun 06, 2010 3:14 pm

Hi everyone new to this forum so i hope thw link works if not email me and i will send a copy of the memorial if anyone wants one [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

The link above has a picture of the memorial to the 1st battalion 24 foot regimental mascot it says
"here lies lion the regimental dog 1st Bn 24 Regiment who died oct 1884 this faithful creature followed the fortunes of the Battalion through the Kafir and Zulu wars 1877-78-79 and was severely wounded at the battle of isandalwana.

The memorial is inside the the old gate at James stephens Barracks home to the 3rd Battalion Irish Defence Forces Having served there for 28 years it was always of interest to visitors he was obviously bought back from Africa how the dog ended up there or who brought him we dont know

In relation to Don and LION i remember seeing a newspaper report in relation to the dog and whoever reported on the battle the papers interpeted the dog as Don rather than Lion from the hand written transcripts which would be very easy to do if you look at the two names and depending on who wrote it

Regards Martin

Subject: Re: 'B' Company on the Slope Sun Jun 06, 2010 3:30 pm

Thanks mgbarrett1. Unfortunately the photo is too small to read the inscription. If you have a bigger Photo post it to Admin, he wil post it on the forum.

Here's another link to some other war dogs. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Posts : 527 Join date : 2009-02-28

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S.D

Subject: Re: 'B' Company on the Slope Sun Jun 06, 2010 4:16 pm

Thanks S.D.

Posts : 1069 Join date : 2009-10-16

Hi All,
Does anyone know when and where the photo of 'B' Company was taken,
There are not many photos of troops taken very soon after Rorkes Drift and Isandhlwana,
I wonder if the 'B' Company photo was taken before the move to Zululand, somewhere on the Eastern Cape Frontier, it is possible that the figure behind the Dog is Captain Godwin-Austen, the original commander of 'B' Company whose dog [sorry cant remember the name] was left with 'B' Company, after he was wounded in 1878.
Any thoughts ????????
Lion went to Ireland when the 1/24th was stationed at Kilkenny.
Rai
Keynshamlighthorse

Posts : 527 Join date : 2009-02-28

Rai. The dog was named Pip.

Posts : 600 Join date : 2010-01-07 Location : UK

Hi
Could the dog at the front right (a spaniel) be Surgeon Reynolds' dog 'Dick' who was present at the defense, and could that be Reynolds next to it in the darker tunic???

thanks joe

Posts : 2871 Join date : 2010-06-02

Hello all

I am very very fortunate to have an original and very sharp copy of the picture of B Company on the slope and can absolutely confirm there is no second dog - it is indeed a partially obscured soldier. My picture is contained in a contemporay album of photos by Kisch which also has shots of the Prince Imperial's death site, so I think this would tend to place it as post Rorkes's Drift - though not conclusively of course. I wonder though if, as Rai suggests, it is before the move to Zululand, why both the previous commander and Bromhead would be in the picture?

Steve

Subject: Re: 'B' Company on the Slope Sun Jun 06, 2010 10:30 pm

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Photo By mgbarrett1

Also on posted Pictorial catalogue of AZW Graves & Memorials

Posts : 600 Join date : 2010-01-07 Location : UK

Hi
I emailed the people from the Henry Gallagher site and asked them if they knew where and when the photo was taken, unfortunatley they dont know and the only person who may have known, Henry's Grandson, died two years ago.

Rusteze-Does your original copy say where and when it was taken?

thanks joe

Posts : 2871 Join date : 2010-06-02

Joe

No, my copy of the photograph gives no indication of date or location I am sorry to say. Only speculation of course, but I think it would be too much of a coincidence that a photo just happens to have been taken of "B" Company prior to their famous defence - and in such a very informal/relaxed pose. Many of these soldiers have an air of confidence and achievement about them to my eyes. It is not at all typical of photos of the time, particularly of other ranks.

Steve

Subject: Re: 'B' Company on the Slope Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:54 pm

Apparently after Isandlwana, several pet dogs became members of a pack and went on the rampage, killing livestock until they were shot in the early 1880s (I forget the date). I'll look up my records and revert.
Ken

Subject: Re: 'B' Company on the Slope Wed Jun 09, 2010 12:39 pm

The original photo is I beleive part of the SB Bourquin collection. He has it annotated as being taken at the end of the war and of being the survivors of RD.

Regards

Subject: B Co on the slope Wed Jun 09, 2010 12:47 pm

hi all.
Think I posted elsewhere on the forum that I believe its taken at Pinetown after the war , or at least I think that was the caption that I saw in one of the books. Idea

cheers 90th

Subject: Re: 'B' Company on the Slope Wed Jun 09, 2010 1:46 pm

90th
"Zulu" page 109

Regards

Subject: B Co on the slope Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:59 pm

hi sprinbok9.
Thanks for that , knew I had seen it somewhere recently. :lol!:
cheers 90th.

Posts : 25 Join date : 2011-12-12

Admin wrote:: I have tryed to out line the what i think is a dog.

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It's not a dog, it's someone who did'nt want his picture taken, and with all the enlistments under false names, there maybe a few candidates for who this soldier really is.

Chris Packet..

Posts : 3362 Join date : 2009-03-03 Location : Devon

Hi Chris

Quote :: there maybe a few candidates for who this soldier really is.

Can you elaborate on the above quote Question

Subject: Re: 'B' Company on the Slope Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:00 pm

Nice theory chrispacket, but it looks like a dog to me........but what is it doing up there?

Posts : 25 Join date : 2011-12-12

tasker224 wrote:: Nice theory chrispacket, but it looks like a dog to me........but what is it doing up there?

I recall seeing this pic some time ago, and it looks like a human face to me...... just can't see it being a dog..... there must be some way in this day and age to enhance the pic without destroying the pixels. No, I don't think it's a dog, It is someone who don't want to be photographed.... just my opinion.....

Chris Packer

Posts : 2871 Join date : 2010-06-02

See my post of June 2010 on page 1 of this topic. It is definitely not a dog - it is a partially obscured soldier ! Don't think he is deliberately hiding though, about half his face is visible in the original picture.

Steve

Subject: Re: 'B' Company on the Slope Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:28 pm

Nice theory chrispacket, but it looks like a dog to me........

Quote :: but what is it doing up there?

Having its photo taken. Perhaps it could have been one of the dogs that escaped Isandlwana. (Lion)

Posts : 3362 Join date : 2009-03-03 Location : Devon

Quote :: It is definitely not a dog

I have to agree, It is not a dog You need to study mo

We are going to have to agree to disagree :lol:

Posts : 2871 Join date : 2010-06-02

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Here is a clear enlargement of the original - no dog!!

Steve

Posts : 3362 Join date : 2009-03-03 Location : Devon

Nice one rusteze Salute

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Subject: Re: 'B' Company on the Slope Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:20 pm

Brilliant rusteze. Well that's cleared that up. It's there any other images of the others in the photo, that clear.

Posts : 2871 Join date : 2010-06-02

Hi Admin

The whole image is that clear, in fact it could probably be made clearer still as the enlargement I posted is simply a hand held digital camera copy. I have had an A1 size poster printed which is excellent. Some time ago I offered the NAM the possibility of stocking it in their shop, but they wanted the copyright first which I thought was unreasonable. So it didn't happen.

Steve

Subject: Re: 'B' Company on the Slope Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:38 pm

Where did this come from. That's an outstanding image. Are you able to post an image of the complete photo.

Subject: B Co on the slope Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:23 pm

Hi Rusteze.
Excellent work , well done that man !.
cheers 90th. Salute

Subject: 'B' Company on the slope Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:34 pm

Hi rusteze

Great work, and to echo 90th "Well done that man".

And also to echo littlehand, are you able to post an image of the complete photo?

Brilliant image. Salute

Guest

Hi all

For the story of dogs at RD ,look the topic " Was it a dog at Rordke's Drift?"

Cheers

Pascal

Subject: Re: 'B' Company on the Slope Wed Jan 25, 2012 6:52 pm

Well the dog that never was doesn't appear to be deliberately hiding his face.

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