WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM

Film Zulu Dawn:Lt. Col. Pulleine: His Lordship is of the cetain opinion that it's far too difficult an approach to be chosen by the Zulu command.Col. Durnford: Yes, well... difficulty never deterred a Zulu commander.
 
HomeHome  CalendarCalendar  GalleryGallery  PublicationsPublications  FAQFAQ  SearchSearch  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  
Latest topics
» Farnborough Hill
Yesterday at 9:46 pm by 24th foot

» Rorke's Drift
Yesterday at 8:25 pm by xhosa2000

» Missing five hours question
Yesterday at 6:59 pm by SRB1965

» Rifles at Rorkes Drift......not the usual Zulu/Martini question....
Yesterday at 9:07 am by SRB1965

» Captain Walter Stafford NNC medals
Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:04 am by 90th

» Gerald French, liar or not?
Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:24 pm by Frank Allewell

» A bit more fun research!
Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:22 am by rusteze

» Trooper H. Boik (NMP) and Dartnell patrol Isandlwana, 22 January 1879
Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:55 am by whizz-bang

» Norris-Newman
Mon Sep 18, 2017 12:52 pm by Kenny

» Some fun research
Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:47 am by Frank Allewell

» Isipezi Hill
Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:19 pm by ALLENG

» Zulu shield question
Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:03 am by SRB1965

» Buyer beware!..
Fri Sep 15, 2017 12:47 pm by xhosa2000

» Colonel Farquhar Glennie
Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:48 pm by SRB1965

» A number of SAGS for Sale at C Dixons
Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:38 pm by xhosa2000

Captain Ronald G.E. Campbell, Coldstream Guards. killed at Hlobane
[Mac & Shad] Captain Ronald G.E. Campbell, Coldstream Guards --killed at Hlobane (Mac and Shad) (Isandula Collection)
Rob Caskie at a Showcase Event 2014
Search
 
 

Display results as :
 
Rechercher Advanced Search
Top posters
90th
 
littlehand
 
Frank Allewell
 
ADMIN
 
Chelmsfordthescapegoat
 
John
 
Mr M. Cooper
 
1879graves
 
impi
 
rusteze
 
Fair Use Notice
Fair use notice. This website may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorised by the copyright owner. We are making such material and images are available in our efforts to advance the understanding of the “Anglo Zulu War of 1879. For educational & recreational purposes. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material, as provided for in UK copyright law. The information is purely for educational and research purposes only. No profit is made from any part of this website. If you hold the copyright on any material on the site, or material refers to you, and you would like it to be removed, please let us know and we will work with you to reach a resolution.
Top posting users this month
90th
 
xhosa2000
 
Frank Allewell
 
rusteze
 
John Young
 
SRB1965
 
Tee
 
24th foot
 
ALLENG
 
Kenny
 
Most active topics
Isandlwana, Last Stands
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Durnford was he capable.5
Durnford was he capable.1
Durnford was he capable. 3
Durnford was he capable.2
Durnford was he capable. 4
The ammunition question
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
The missing five hours.

Share | 
 

 The Killing of the two women by Mehlokazulu

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
AuthorMessage
Ulundi

avatar

Posts : 554
Join date : 2012-05-05

PostSubject: The Killing of the two women by Mehlokazulu   Tue Nov 19, 2013 9:06 pm

I have read, they were stabbed, Shot, Strangled. Does anyone know how theses two women were killed.
Or were they Strangled, speared and Shot.
Back to top Go down
24th

avatar

Posts : 1838
Join date : 2009-03-25

PostSubject: Re: The Killing of the two women by Mehlokazulu   Tue Nov 19, 2013 9:28 pm

I recall reading, they were dispatched with a Knobkerry?
Back to top Go down
John Young

avatar

Posts : 1283
Join date : 2013-09-08
Age : 61
Location : Lower Sheering, Essex

PostSubject: Re: The Killing of the two women by Mehlokazulu   Tue Nov 19, 2013 9:45 pm

The oral history that I heard from the family also recounts that they were despatched with an iwisa, which bears out 24th's post.

JY
Back to top Go down
littlehand

avatar

Posts : 7066
Join date : 2009-04-24
Age : 49
Location : Down South.

PostSubject: Re: The Killing of the two women by Mehlokazulu   Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:12 pm

"Strangled" I read. Can't remember where?
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: The Killing of the two women by Mehlokazulu   Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:57 pm

As JY says..Mehlokazulu..He crossed the Tugela
with his uncle, found his father's younger wife,
and dragged her back across the river and turned
her over to a party of his supporters. they looped
a rawhide line around her neck, pulled the end's
tight, and then struck the back of her head with a
Knobkerrie. he got his ' mother ' a few day's later.
Kaqwelebana was said to have been shot.
Back to top Go down
Chard1879

avatar

Posts : 1263
Join date : 2010-04-12

PostSubject: Re: The Killing of the two women by Mehlokazulu   Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:08 pm

"H.C. Lugg, Historic Natal and Zululand (Pietermaritzburg, 1949). Lugg identifies the location of the killings and is adamant that Mehlokazulu had the two women strangled, not shot as is sometimes claimed, because he ‘did not wish to shed the blood of his mothers’. Mehlokazulu himself admitted while in Pietermaritzburg jail in late 1879 that ‘he had strangled the two women’; E. Harding Steward, Royal Engineer Journal, 2 February 1880."
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: The Killing of the two women by Mehlokazulu   Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:59 pm

hiya chard1879, there are so many account's
of these murder's..Mehlokazulu, really did sing
like a bird, they must have been feeding him
trill..Very Happy 

heres another account..

On reaching the police camp they seized the
terrified refugee and one of the party struck
her with a knobkerrie smashing in all her front
teeth, she was bound with reims, dragged
along the ground for some distance, then picked
and slung across the backs of two ponies and
conveyed across the river into Zululand, en-
route
to Sirayo's Kraal.

Shortly after crossing at Rorkes Drift, the cavalcade
was intercepted by a son of Sirayo's, named...
Mehlo-Ka-Zulu, who seized and pulled the woman
off the ponies, killed her, then threw her body
into a nearby donga.
Back to top Go down
6pdr

avatar

Posts : 1086
Join date : 2012-05-12
Location : NYC

PostSubject: Re: The Killing of the two women by Mehlokazulu   Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:50 am

xhosa2000 wrote:

heres another account..
That's the one I find most creditable.  But the account I read a LONG, LONG time ago explained that Mehlokazulu made sure the women were brought across the river into "Zululand" where British law (in his eyes, anyway) had no jurisdiction.  This did not stop him from being named casus belli however.  By hook or by crook, Frere was going to have his war -- the war that the scrupulous honesty of the Border committee had already once avoided...or delayed.  

There's also the question of who these women were and what they had done.  I believe that the first one was Sihayo's "Great Wife," which would have been Mehlo's birth mother, I believe.  

Does anyone here know exactly what the designation Great Wife entails?  My guess is that it either means the first woman he married and/or the one who is most entitled to his property as I believe women had rights to that...but I'm happy to be corrected.

The usual explanation is that they were killed for infidelity...but this was no one time thing.  The Great Wife was pregnant with a second child who was not Sihayo's I believe.  I've often wondered about the timing. Exactly what set Mehlokazulu off that night. The news that she was pregnant again perhaps?

In the end I think Mehlo's legal scruples did help prevent him from being accused of murder...but nothing could restore Sihayo's of his family's standing again because they were so close to Cetshwayo.
Back to top Go down
kopie



Posts : 249
Join date : 2013-06-01

PostSubject: Re: The Killing of the two women by Mehlokazulu   Wed Nov 20, 2013 9:08 pm

It is decribed in detail in Ian Knoght's Zulu Rising, although I don't know what his source(s) are with out looking it up, but I am not home atthe mo.
Back to top Go down
6pdr

avatar

Posts : 1086
Join date : 2012-05-12
Location : NYC

PostSubject: Re: The Killing of the two women by Mehlokazulu   Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:18 pm

kopie wrote:
It is decribed in detail in Ian Knoght's Zulu Rising, although I don't know what his source(s) are with out looking it up, but I am not home atthe mo.
Knight mentions that there are various renditions based on oral history.  The biggest issue seems to be whether the women, MaMtshali and MaMthethwa, were shot or strangled.  He sites Lugg (6) as insisting they were strangled so as not to shed the blood of Mehlo's mothers, further dishonoring the family. His account does not answer my more basic questions about what actually triggered Mehlokazulu at that place and time.  Was it the second, younger wife deserting?  Maybe.

Knight's footnotes are:

4 - Statement of 'Umpahla," a witness in British Parlimentary Papers

5 - J.Y. Gibson, THE STORY OF THE ZULUS (London, 1911)

6 - H.C. Lugg, HISTORIC NATAL AND ZULULAND (Pietermaritzburg, 1949) and goes on to quote Mehlo's jail confession coming from: E. Harding Steward, ROYAL ENGINEER JOURNAL, 2 February 1880.
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: The Killing of the two women by Mehlokazulu   Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:54 pm

whether the women, MaMtshali and MaMthethwa.. i have the younger
victim as Kaqwelebana? xhosa
Back to top Go down
6pdr

avatar

Posts : 1086
Join date : 2012-05-12
Location : NYC

PostSubject: Re: The Killing of the two women by Mehlokazulu   Thu Nov 21, 2013 5:34 pm

xhosa2000 wrote:
whether the women, MaMtshali and MaMthethwa.. i have the younger
victim as Kaqwelebana?
Yes that is the name I encountered when I looked into this years ago too...except in my mind she was the "Great Wife" (i.e. the older one.) I was just answering the post that pointed to Ian Knight's latest account. Knight acknowledges that there are multiple accounts of course.
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: The Killing of the two women by Mehlokazulu   Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:32 pm

Hi 6pdr, agree  Salute 
Back to top Go down
littlehand

avatar

Posts : 7066
Join date : 2009-04-24
Age : 49
Location : Down South.

PostSubject: Re: The Killing of the two women by Mehlokazulu   Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:43 pm

"In July of 1878 the Zulu inDuna named Sihayo discovered his Great Wife Kaqwelebana was having affairs with younger men while he was with the King in Ulundi.  Upon discovering this indiscretion, Kaqwelebana’s eldest son Mehlokazulu and four of Sihayo’s brothers (Zuluhlenga, Bhekzulu, Nkumbikazulu, and Shenkwana) decided that the Great Wife should be killed at once.  The first attempt ended in failure as the Great Wife and another wife, also involved in these affairs, escaped into Natal with their lovers.  The Zulu responded by crossing over into the Natal and returned the offenders to Zululand for execution"
Back to top Go down
6pdr

avatar

Posts : 1086
Join date : 2012-05-12
Location : NYC

PostSubject: Re: The Killing of the two women by Mehlokazulu   Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:10 pm

Thanks Littlehand. Salute  Where did you find that?
Back to top Go down
littlehand

avatar

Posts : 7066
Join date : 2009-04-24
Age : 49
Location : Down South.

PostSubject: Re: The Killing of the two women by Mehlokazulu   Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:46 pm

The comparison of the battles of the little big horn and isandhlwana.
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: The Killing of the two women by Mehlokazulu   

Back to top Go down
 
The Killing of the two women by Mehlokazulu
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 1

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM  :: GENERAL DISCUSSION AREA-
Jump to: