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  ZULULAND'S SONS

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PostSubject: ZULULAND'S SONS   Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:59 am


Hello to all

Here in my humble opinion how was below the organization chart of the Zulu royal army in January 1879, it is only my opinion and I'm open to other organization charts ...

Someone told me that I entered a minefield, once again, but I love it ...

But we should not forget that this forum is dedicated to the Zulu War of 1879 also in my opinion the Zulu army is a little concerned by this forum ...

The questions are numbered for ease .

USIXEPI CORPS : Incorporating the married regiment USIXEPI composed of a handful of very older warriors of 80 years and the unmarried regiment NOKENKE composed of 2,000 young warriors of 30 years in 40 companies.

MBELEBELE CORPS : Incorporating the married regiment MBELEBELE composed of a handful of very older warriors of 78 years and the unmarried regiment UMHLANGA composed of 1,000 young warriors of 28 years in20 companies.

UMLAMBONGWENYA CORPS : Incorporating the married regiment UMLAMBONGWENYA composed of a handful of very older warriors of 75 years and the unmarried regiment UMXAPO composed of 2,000 young warriors of 35 years in 40 companies.

UDUKUZA CORPS : Incorporating the married regiment UDUKUZA composed of a handful of very older warriors of 73 years and the unmarried regiment IQWA composed of 500 young warriors of 35 years in10 companies .

BULAWAYO CORPS : Incorporating the married regiment BULAWAYO composed of a handful of very older warriors of 70 years and the unmarried regiment NSUGAMGENI composed of 1,000 young warriors of 35 years in 20 companies.

UDHLAMBEDHLU CORPS : Incorporating the married regiment UDHLAMBEDHLU composed of a handful of very older warriors of 68 years ,the married regiment NGWEKWE composed of 1,000 old warriors of 55 years in 20 companies and the married regiment NGULUBI composed of 500 old warriors of 55 years in 10 companies.

NODWENGU CORPS : Incorporating the married regiment MKULUTYANE composed of 100 very older warriors of 64 years in 2 companies,the married regiment UMSIKABA composed of 500 old warriors of 54 years in 10 companies ,the unmarried regiment UDUDUDU composed of 1500 young warriors of 35 years in 30 companies,the unmarried regiment MBUBE composed of 500 young warriors of 35 years in 10 companies and the married regiment ISANQU composed of 1500 old warriors of 54years in 30 companies.

UDABAKOMBI CORPS : Incorporating the married regiment UDABAKOMBI composed of 400 very older warriors of 60 years in 8 companies and the married regiment UMKUSI composed of 600 old warriors of 55 years in 12 companies.

UNDI CORPS : Incorporating the married regiment TULWANA composed of 1500 older warriors of 45 years in 30companies , the married regiment ISIBABULE composed of 500 old warriors of 44 years in 10 companies,the married regiment NKONKONE composed of 500 old warriors of 43 years in 10 companies,the married regiment NDLONDHLO composed of 900 old warriors of 43 years in 18 companies,the unmarried regiment INDLUYENGWE composed of 1000 young warriors of 28 years in 20 companies and the unmarried regiment NKOBAMAKOSI composed of 6020 young warriors of 24 years in 86 companies.

UDHLOKO CORPS : Incorporating the married regiment UDHLOKO composed of 2500 older warriors of 40 years in 50 companies and the unmarried regiment AMAKWENKWE composed of 1500 young warriors of 29 years in 30 companies.

UMBONAMBI or NKONYANEBOMVU CORPS : Incorporating the unmarried regiment UMBONAMBI composed of 1500 young warriors of 32 years in 30 companies and the unmarried regiment AMASHUTU composed of 500 young warriors of 32 years in 10 companies.

UMCITYU CORPS : Incorporating the unmarried regiment UMKANDAMPEMVU composed of 2500 young warriors of 28 years in 50 companies , the unmarried regiment UNQAKAMATYE composed of 5000 young warriors of 30 years in 100 companies and the unmarried regiment UMTULISAZWI composed of 1500 young warriors of 29 years in 30 companies.

UVE CORPS : Incorporating the unmarried regiment UVE composed of 3500 young warriors of 23 years in 70 companies and the married regiment UMZINYATI composed of 500 older warriors of 43 years in 10 companies.

They also had some clans as the ABAQULUZI and other - the ABAQULUZI , a created chiefdom which was ruled directly by izinduna appointed by the Zulu king – All these clans had an unknown effective of hundreds of irregular warriors in this case, because they were not part of the royal army ...

QUESTION N° 1 :

The eight very old married regiments are each composed generally of a handful of very older warriors , these are the USIXEPI composed of warriors of 80 years , the MBELEBELEcomposed of warriors of 78 years , the UMLAMBONGWENYA composed of warriors of 75 years , the UDUKUZA composed of warriors of 73 years ,the BULAWAYO composed of warriors of 70 years , the UDHLAMBEDHLU composed of warriors of 68 years , the MKULUTYANE composed of warriors of 64 years and the UDABAKOMBI composed of warriors of 60 years...

It seems that in this list above , only the MKULUTYANE composed of warriors of 64 years have fought the British in 1879 ,because the seven other regiments are not mentioned in the battles of the Zulu War of 1879 ... ? Do you know if any other of these regiments were engaged in battles against the British in 1879 ?

QUESTION N° 2 :

The other eleven married regiments composed of older warriors , these are the NGWEKWE composed of warriors of 55 years ,the NGULUBI composed of warriors of 55 years, the UMKUSI composed of warriors of 55 years , the UMSIKABA composed of warriors of 54 years , the ISANQU composed of warriors of 54 years , the TULWANA composed of warriors of 45 years , the ISIBABULE composed of warriors of 44 years , the NKONKONE composed of warriors of 43 years , the NDLONDHLO composed of warriors of 43 years , the UMZINYATI composed of warriors of 43 years and the UDHLOKO composed of warriors of 40 years.

It seems that in this list above , only the UMKUSI composed of warriors of 55 years , the ISIBABULE composed of warriors of 44 years and the UMZINYATI composed of warriors of 43 years have not fought the British in 1879, because these three regiments are not mentioned in the list of battles of the Zulu War of 1879 ... ? Do you know if these three regiments were engaged in battles against the British in 1879 ?

QUESTION N° 3 :

The sixteen unmarried regiments composed of young warriors ,these are , the UMXAPO composed of warriors of 35 years , the IQWA composed of warriors of 35 years , the NSUGAMGENI composed of warriors of 35 years ,the UDUDUDU composed of warriors of 35 years in 30 companies,the unmarried regiment ,the MBUBE composed of warriors of 35 years ,the UMBONAMBI composed of warriors of 32 years , the AMASHUTU composed of warriors of 32 years ,the NOKENKE composed of warriors of 30 years , the UNQAKAMATYE composed of warriors of 30 years , the UMTULISAZWI composed of warriors of 29 years , the AMAKWENKWE composed of warriors of 29 years , the UMHLANGA composed of warriors of 28 years , the INDLUYENGWE composed of warriors of 28 years , the UMKANDAMPEMVU composed of warriors of 28 years, the NKOBAMAKOSI composed warriors of 24 years and the UVE composed of warriors of 23 years. You agree?

It seems that in this list above , only the AMASHUTU composed of warriors of 32 years never fought the British in 1879, because this regiment was never mentioned in the list of battles of the Zulu War of 1879 ... ? Do you know if this regiment was engaged in battles against the British in 1879?


QUESTION N° 4 :

Just before the invasion, as in previous decades , each intanga of young male Zulu reached the age of twenty it would be enrolled in a local “head” , ikhanda , and are organized of most of the time into companies of fifty men (seventy for the NKOBAMAKOSI ) , to await the next First-Fruit ceremony and a summons from the king appear at the royal residence.

As there was no new regiments constituted after 1875 and in the war of 1879 ,battles after battles ,because of the casualties ,one or another of these companies was assigned to reinforce existing regiments. Thus some regiments came to be made up a wide range of ages , in which case the young recruits were privileged to adopt the shield colour that properly belonged to veterans.

But in a married regiment, losses can only beings replaced by these young recruits,theses young warriors could therefore adopt shields completely white or in white part of these veterans, but they were to be married before or they were unmarried warriors in the married regiments ?

QUESTION N° 5 :

Since the losses ,battles after battles ,were replaced by the young recruits ,What could serve the UMKUSI , the ISIBABULE , the UMZINYATI and the AMASHUTU regiments ?

QUESTION N° 6 :

Someone possesses information of first or secondary sources on the total number of abaQuluzi warriors?

QUESTION N° 7 :

Someone possesses information of first or secondary sources on the internal organization of the abaQuluzi army?

QUESTION N° 8 :

How there were other semi-independent Zulu clans like the abaQulusi ?

QUESTION N° 9 :

Someone possesses information of first or secondary sources on the internal organization of theses other semi-independent Zulu clans armies?

Cheers

Rascal the Pascal
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littlehand

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PostSubject: Re: ZULULAND'S SONS   Mon Dec 02, 2013 5:04 pm

Just out of interest.

Here are 22 regiments that were active in 1879 ranked by seniority.
Married Regiments
The married regiments were officially a reserve force. However, the regiments from 1852 onwards were involved in most major battles. Their total strength was circa 15,000 on paper but probably 10,000 in reality.

1821-27 amaKwenkwe' 
1833. umKhulutshane
1843. uDlambedlu
1844. izinNgulube
1846-51. amaPhela
1852. isAngqu 1854. uThulwana
1857. inDlondlo
1858. uDhloko

Unmarried Regiments

1821-27 amaKwenkwe' 
1833. umKhulutshane
1843. uDlambedlu
1844. izinNgulube
1846-51. amaPhela
1852. isAngqu 
1854. uThulwana
1857. inDlondlo
1858. uDhloko

The unmarried regiments were the core of the army. The regiments from 1857 to 1875 onwards were involved in most major battles. Their total strength was circa 30,000.

1857. iMbube
1859. uDududu
1860. iQwa  Frost 
1861. umXhapho
1862. inSukamngeni 
1863. uMbonambi
1865. uNokhenke  
1866. iNdluyengwe

1867. umHlanga
1868. umCijo
1872. inGobamakhosi
1875. uVe
1878. uFalaza

Allies abaQulusi

The abaQulusi were an independent Ngoni clan that was not part of the Zulu “amabutho” military system. They were however, highly respected and fought as a royal section in the army. The leader in 1879 was Prince Mbilini waMswati.

Coastal Tribes
Various independent Ngoni tribes supported the Zulus, particularly at Gingindlovo. However, they are often simply described as local tribes or coastal allies. Two tribes are possible, the Qwade and the Mthelwa. The Mthelwa are more likely allies as they had strong links with the Zulu since King Shaka’s time."
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PostSubject: Re: ZULULAND'S SONS   Mon Dec 02, 2013 6:17 pm

scratch  littlehand I do not see the difference between your list and mine?
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PostSubject: Re: ZULULAND'S SONS   Mon Dec 02, 2013 7:30 pm

Well between you, we have ages and dates. agree  Teamwork!
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PostSubject: Re: ZULULAND'S SONS   Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:45 pm

just so well done both of you!
and the name of the coastal
commander/ er's.?.
xhosa
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PostSubject: Re: ZULULAND'S SONS   Tue Dec 03, 2013 7:00 am

Hi Lester

Coastal commanders in the war in a particular battle or in peacetime ?

Rascal
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PostSubject: Re: ZULULAND'S SONS   Tue Dec 03, 2013 9:03 am

littlehand

From your sources Ngoni were present at Gingindlovu, how? Since the Ngoni Were Originally a splinter group of the Ndwandwe, northern neighbors of the Zulu, Have you HAD beens Defeated by Shaka's impies in 1825 and driven north into what is now Mosambique ... Between 1825 and 1875, they have not ceased to migrate north, and in the early 1850s, one of their groups, Tuta or Watusa , arrived on the southern shore of the Lake Victoria ...

From your sources Ngoni were present in Zululand in 1879 ?

Cheers

Rascal
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PostSubject: Re: ZULULAND'S SONS   Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:06 pm

Hi rascal, yeah the coastal
commander's at Inyezane
and Gingindhlovu. Salute 
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PostSubject: Re: ZULULAND'S SONS   Tue Dec 03, 2013 1:00 pm

Hi mon poteau

The coastal commander at Inyezane is Matyiya and at Gingindhlovu it's Somopo Wink 
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PostSubject: Re: ZULULAND'S SONS   Tue Dec 03, 2013 2:36 pm

of course, thank you mon ami.agree  Wink 
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PostSubject: Re: ZULULAND'S SONS   Thu Dec 05, 2013 10:23 am

Pascal seems to have tried to neatly package all the amabutho neatly into various amakhanda. I know from experience in researching the Zulu military system that this isn't as easy as one might think and it was not a system that was designed to work that way. The difficulty lies in getting out of a European way of thinking, of a desire for harmony and symmetry, and for order, systems, and design and instead to think flexibly. Knight and others are equally careful not to commit themselves to a 'fixed' table in this way. What Pascal has done is nevertheless a very useful exercise and a sound basis for starting an examination of the Zulu military system - just don't take it as gospel.
Well done Pascal!
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PostSubject: Re: ZULULAND'S SONS   Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:11 pm

pascal, that was so well done! Salute ,
vous avez été caché votre lumière sous le boisseau..
( you have been hiding your light under a bushel).
cheers Very Happy 
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PostSubject: Re: ZULULAND'S SONS   Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:52 pm

Lester I note you my dear friend that my sources are:

1/ Contemporary sources and the composition of the main impi ,January 1879 The Zulu impi that'dished us up in style'(1) By Julian Whybra B.A.
2/ Hill of the Sphinx page 66 by Mr David Jackson
3 / The zulu army and zulu headmen compiled by a anonymous or Fynn or Finney ?? , not to sure ...
4/ Precis of Information concerning the Zulu Country ,with a map.Prepared in the intelligence Branch of the Quarter-Master-General's Department ,Horse Guards,War Office.compiled by a anonymous or Fynn or Finney ?? , not to sure ...

Cheers

Pascal
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PostSubject: Re: ZULULAND'S SONS   Thu Dec 05, 2013 8:20 pm

we are infected rascal, the AZW
is for life, for me it never ends. Very Happy  Salute 
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PostSubject: Re: ZULULAND'S SONS   Fri Dec 06, 2013 6:22 am

Hi Lester

For me, it started in 1976 and it had stopped in1995 ...

But because of the internet and completely by accident, it has taken two years ago now ...

It's a goddamn addiction ...Very Happy Salute 
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PostSubject: Re: ZULULAND'S SONS   Thu Dec 12, 2013 2:09 pm

This is a very interesting topic. I have always been confused about the umHlanga regiment. A number of books that I have read indicate that the umHlanga regiment was present at isandlwana but in other books on isandlwana, no mention is made of this regiment being present. Ian Knight's book "The Anatomy of the Zulu Army" does not even list the umHlanga as a regiment in the army. Does anyone know if this an actual regiment, and did it participate at isandlwana?
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PostSubject: Re: ZULULAND'S SONS   Thu Dec 12, 2013 2:40 pm

Hi Cetewayo

Some old authors counted the regiment in the Zulu royal army as present in isandhwana, after others say that he was not present, the best historians now believe he was present at the extreme right chest accompanying the UMCITYU CORPS...

This regiment had black shields with a single white spot in their upper parts, unlike the inDluyengwe who themselves had black shields with a single white spot in their lower parts ... Wink 

Cheers

Pascal
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PostSubject: Re: ZULULAND'S SONS   Thu Dec 12, 2013 2:50 pm

Cetewayo
There is not one single account of Isandhlwana from a surviving umHlanga warrior.
There is just one contemporary source which states that the regiment was present and that is from European (colonial) source but a reliable one.
Modern oral tradition also is in favour.
Broadly-speaking the likelihood is that it was present; it's just that there is no evidence for it...yet!
Pascal
I think you should write "unlike the inDluyengwe who themselves had black shields with a single white spot in the lower part .." otherwise it sounds as if the inDluyengwe had a white spot in their lower parts!!
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PostSubject: Re: ZULULAND'S SONS   Thu Dec 12, 2013 3:14 pm

Thank you Pascal and Julian for your responses.
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PostSubject: Re: ZULULAND'S SONS   Thu Dec 12, 2013 4:03 pm

Very Happy L Yes Julian  Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: ZULULAND'S SONS   Mon Dec 16, 2013 4:31 pm


But we should not forget that this forum is dedicated to the Zulu War of 1879 also in my opinion the Zulu army is a little concerned by this forum ...

The questions are numbered for ease .


QUESTION N° 1 :

The eight very old married regiments are each composed generally of a handful of very older warriors , these are the USIXEPI composed of warriors of 80 years , the MBELEBELEcomposed of warriors of 78 years , the UMLAMBONGWENYA composed of warriors of 75 years , the UDUKUZA composed of warriors of 73 years ,the BULAWAYO composed of warriors of 70 years , the UDHLAMBEDHLU composed of warriors of 68 years , the MKULUTYANE composed of warriors of 64 years and the UDABAKOMBI composed of warriors of 60 years...

It seems that in this list above , only the MKULUTYANE composed of warriors of 64 years have fought the British in 1879 ,because the seven other regiments are not mentioned in the battles of the Zulu War of 1879 ... ? Do you know if any other of these regiments were engaged in battles against the British in 1879 ?

QUESTION N° 2 :

The other eleven married regiments composed of older warriors , these are the NGWEKWE composed of warriors of 55 years ,the NGULUBI composed of warriors of 55 years, the UMKUSI composed of warriors of 55 years , the UMSIKABA composed of warriors of 54 years , the ISANQU composed of warriors of 54 years , the TULWANA composed of warriors of 45 years , the ISIBABULE composed of warriors of 44 years , the NKONKONE composed of warriors of 43 years , the NDLONDHLO composed of warriors of 43 years , the UMZINYATI composed of warriors of 43 years and the UDHLOKO composed of warriors of 40 years.

It seems that in this list above , only the UMKUSI composed of warriors of 55 years , the ISIBABULE composed of warriors of 44 years and the UMZINYATI composed of warriors of 43 years have not fought the British in 1879, because these three regiments are not mentioned in the list of battles of the Zulu War of 1879 ... ? Do you know if these three regiments were engaged in battles against the British in 1879 ?

QUESTION N° 3 :

The sixteen unmarried regiments composed of young warriors ,these are , the UMXAPO composed of warriors of 35 years , the IQWA composed of warriors of 35 years , the NSUGAMGENI composed of warriors of 35 years ,the UDUDUDU composed of warriors of 35 years in 30 companies,the unmarried regiment ,the MBUBE composed of warriors of 35 years ,the UMBONAMBI composed of warriors of 32 years , the AMASHUTU composed of warriors of 32 years ,the NOKENKE composed of warriors of 30 years , the UNQAKAMATYE composed of warriors of 30 years , the UMTULISAZWI composed of warriors of 29 years , the AMAKWENKWE composed of warriors of 29 years , the UMHLANGA composed of warriors of 28 years , the INDLUYENGWE composed of warriors of 28 years , the UMKANDAMPEMVU composed of warriors of 28 years, the NKOBAMAKOSI composed warriors of 24 years and the UVE composed of warriors of 23 years. You agree?

It seems that in this list above , only the AMASHUTU composed of warriors of 32 years never fought the British in 1879, because this regiment was never mentioned in the list of battles of the Zulu War of 1879 ... ? Do you know if this regiment was engaged in battles against the British in 1879?


QUESTION N° 4 :

Just before the invasion, as in previous decades , each intanga of young male Zulu reached the age of twenty it would be enrolled in a local “head” , ikhanda , and are organized of most of the time into companies of fifty men (seventy for the NKOBAMAKOSI ) , to await the next First-Fruit ceremony and a summons from the king appear at the royal residence.

As there was no new regiments constituted after 1875 and in the war of 1879 ,battles after battles ,because of the casualties ,one or another of these companies was assigned to reinforce existing regiments. Thus some regiments came to be made up a wide range of ages , in which case the young recruits were privileged to adopt the shield colour that properly belonged to veterans.

But in a married regiment, losses can only beings replaced by these young recruits,theses young warriors could therefore adopt shields completely white or in white part of these veterans, but they were to be married before or they were unmarried warriors in the married regiments ?

QUESTION N° 5 :

Since the losses ,battles after battles ,were replaced by the young recruits ,What could serve the UMKUSI , the ISIBABULE , the UMZINYATI and the AMASHUTU regiments ?

Cheers

Pascal
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