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 England's fake Isandlawana and Rorke's Drift Hero's

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John

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PostSubject: England's fake Isandlawana and Rorke's Drift Hero's    Tue Feb 04, 2014 9:11 pm

"

From The Sevenoaks Chronicle of March 14, 1924 Yet another fake ‘I was there’ man.
By Dr Adrian Greaves
________________________________________________________________________
By mere chance, I recently came across this 1924 newspaper article about an old soldier who falsely claimed to have survived Isandlwana. It’s a pity he doesn’t say how he managed to survive the battle but the most likely explanation is that he was probably with Chelmsford’s column sent out from Isandlwana camp in the early hours of the 23rd January 1879. His family and friends clearly believed his story and thereafter treated him as a war hero. He received the South Africa campaign medal, without bar. This indicates he probably didn’t even cross into Zululand.
The following report is unabridged from the original newspaper edition. The Sevenoaks Chronicle March 14, 1924
‘IN MARCH 1924 Zulu War hero, George Thomas Langridge was buried at St Nicholas’ Church, Sevenoaks, with full military honours. He had died at his Buckhurst Avenue home, aged 66, after 42 years of military service, including several brutal years fighting Zulus in southern Africa. He survived the horrific massacre at Isandlwana on January 23, 1879, and consequently joined the relief column heading for the besieged mission station at Rorke’s Drift.
The Chronicle of March 14, 1924, reported how “with his accustomed keenness” Mr Langridge, of 44 Buckhurst Avenue, had been out on his allotment on the day of his death and only developed “serious symptoms” when he returned home around dinner time. He died peacefully a few hours later.
Of his funeral, the paper wrote: “Blinds were drawn, traffic came to a standstill and a hush fell over everything with complete cessation of movement as the remains of the old campaigner moved slowly to his last resting place.”
Hundreds lined the High Street as the funeral cortege bearing his coffin passed slowly along a pre-planned route, carried by his comrades from the Old Ready fire brigade, with whom he served for over 20 years. The Last Post was followed by a 21-gun salute delivered by the South Wales Borderers, the 24th Regiment.
Mr Langridge served in the 2nd battalion of the 24th Regiment when it crossed into Zululand at Rorke’s Drift on the Buffalo River as part of the No. 3 Column. On January 20, camp was made beneath the rocky, low hill of Isandlwana, in the middle of nowhere. However, a mistake saw most of the 2nd battalion sent off on a wild goose chase as part of a relief column sent to support an earlier patrol.
Mr Langridge would have missed the impending battle had he not been on outpost duty when the column left.
The battle of Isandlwana began when a British scouting party stumbled upon the Zulus waiting for the right moment to strike. The Zulus chased them right back to base. Historians say 20,000 Zulus surprised the camp that day. They descended on five companies from 1st battalion of the 24th Regiment, six Natal Native Contingent companies the Natal Mounted Police and two seven-pounders of N Battery. The British forces fought heroically, until their ammunition ran out and the Zulus overran them.
Of 600 British infantry, 600 native infantry, 100 cavalry and 70 gunners, the death total was 52 officers and 1,277 other ranks, including 21 officers and 578 others from the 24th Regiment. Only six privates from the 24th Regiment survived. Zulu deaths were between 2,000 and 3,000.
Mr Langridge then joined up with the column heading towards Rorke’s Drift, where Lieut Gonville Bromhead’s B Company of the 2nd Battalion of the 24th Regiment and 130 men had held out for 12 hours against wave after wave of attacks from 4,000 Zulus.
Mr Langridge and his unit went on to India where he served for three years before returning to Buckhurst Avenue.
For 20 years he was a member of the old Volunteer Force in Sevenoaks. He held, in addition to the South African medal, the Volunteer Long Service medal. In 1914, aged 56, he volunteered with the Royal West Kents and survived another four years of war before being discharged as a sergeant in 1918. All five of his sons, George, William, Fred, Harry and Arthur, came through the war unscathed as well; three in the army and two in the navy’."
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PostSubject: Re: England's fake Isandlawana and Rorke's Drift Hero's    Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:14 pm

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PostSubject: Re: England's fake Isandlawana and Rorke's Drift Hero's    Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:18 pm

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There was a "Parry, Samuel. Private. 25B/1399, B Company"

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PostSubject: Re: England's fake Isandlawana and Rorke's Drift Hero's    Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:24 pm

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PostSubject: Re: England's fake Isandlawana and Rorke's Drift Hero's    Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:34 pm

Dear Sir
Can you inform me as to how it was confirmed that Mr George Langridge does not possess legitimate claim ? I know from personal experience that Records are not always accurate; and combat can be a confused area... Is you assertion speculative or factually based? I am interested from the keeping of accurate records point of view.
Many thanks
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PostSubject: Re: England's fake Isandlawana and Rorke's Drift Hero's    Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:55 pm

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PostSubject: Re: England's fake Isandlawana and Rorke's Drift Hero's    Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:31 pm

I spose he survived the battle through not actually being in it..... Rolling Eyes

Has anyone a record of him being in the 2/24th at the time of the Zulu War - I spose that the fact he got a campaign medal indicates that he was?

The story implies that he could have been in G Company but I would not be at all surprised (if he was in the Zulu War)

The whole thing may not have been made up maliciously but could have come from a simple misunderstanding when he said he was in the Zulu War and mentioned Isandlawana....
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PostSubject: Re: England's fake Isandlawana and Rorke's Drift Hero's    Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:34 pm

There is a Private #2662 G. Langridge on the Medal Roll for the 2nd/24th entitled to medal, No Clasp

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PostSubject: Re: England's fake Isandlawana and Rorke's Drift Hero's    Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:59 pm

Hi SRB1965

There is as POT says a Private George Langridge in the 2nd 24th, Regimental Number 2662.

It has not been questioned that he saw service in South Africa in the Zulu War but what has been questioned is what the newspaper has claimed he was a survivor of Isandlwana.

As the medal roll states he was not entitled to the 1879 clasp, which could mean that he never stepped foot into Zululand let alone be a survivor of Isandlwana.

If my memory serves me correct, I think there is a thread on the forum listing a list of people who claim to have been at Rorke's Drift or a survivor of Isandlwana.

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PostSubject: Re: England's fake Isandlawana and Rorke's Drift Hero's    Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:34 pm

Private Langridge (of 2/24th and is confirmed) may have been detailed with others detailed to clear-up the aftermath of battle; that is, to bury bodies and other field tasks.
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PostSubject: Re: England's fake Isandlawana and Rorke's Drift Hero's    Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:18 pm

If so, he would have entered Zululand to do it and been entitled to the bar. It is hard to imagine that he would have accepted the error at the time (if that is what it was) when a significant number of those with whom he continued to serve were awarded the bar simply because they crossed the Thukela. You are right not to blindly accept official records but in this case his presence and subsequent escape from Isandhlwana looks very doubtful unless there is some further proof or corroboration (this stuff does still turn up though).

Steve
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PostSubject: England's Fake Isandlwana & RD Heroes   Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:06 am

Private George Langridge 2662 2/ 24th is also listed in The Noble 24th , being entitled to the Medal without Clasp , which , as others have mentioned, means he never crossed the Border to serve in Zululand .
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PostSubject: Re: England's fake Isandlawana and Rorke's Drift Hero's    Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:41 pm

The Sevenoaks newspaper article, on which the reputation of a soldier depended- and has since been held by many as definite evidence of a false claim, but does not state that the details of that claim came from George Langridge, as a result of interview, but was in the nature of an obituary. There is no direct quote or matter that refers to his own view of the situations.
I am not however stating that the article is false in any material particular, but I do believe in proper research, and there is no proof therein that Mr Langridge claimed to be in the battles.
Further,to state that he never entered Zululand is unproven. My research would take into account the hundreds of bodies left for burial on the battlefield and the urgent necessity of dealing with that. Who dealt with that? A large force to deal with that Task and others, would have been required, and that force could have many qualifying for the medal without clasp, since they would not have been in the battle, but would not, manifestly, have prevented then from entering Zululand, and still therefore qualifying for the medal without clasp?
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PostSubject: Re: England's fake Isandlawana and Rorke's Drift Hero's    Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:52 pm

The award of a clasp did not depend on being involved in a battle, but simply being in the designated area of operations (in this case Zululand). This general rule has always applied to the award of British campaign medals right up to the present day.

Burying the dead at Isandhlwana did not commence for some considerable time after the battle - May 1879 being the first attempt.

Steve
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PostSubject: Re: England's fake Isandlawana and Rorke's Drift Hero's    Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:30 pm

Hello Steve.
Thank you for your comment: I had hoped that in my message was clear that I referred to the medal without the clasp- such as the example of that awarded to Pte George Langridge.
The awards of the medals would have taken some time...It is still not clear to me whether or not soldiers
were detailed to deal with the aftermath- bodies-on the former battlefield, and which regiments or other factors were involved in that. At that time, presumably, such presence in Zululand, after the battle, did not qualify for medal with clasp, but for medal without?
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PostSubject: Re: England's fake Isandlawana and Rorke's Drift Hero's    Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:56 pm

interestingly there are examples of troops entering Zululand to burying the dead at Isandlwana and not receiving the clasp. This was certainly the case for Carbutt's Border Rangers. However, I do think it unlikely for a member of the 2/24th.
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PostSubject: Re: England's fake Isandlawana and Rorke's Drift Hero's    Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:09 pm

The story of the burial of the dead at Isandhlwana is quite complex - it was carried out over a considerable period of time and was itself controversial (accusations of the dead left unburied). May I suggest you take a look at an authoritative account such as Ian Knight's "Zulu Rising" which covers the subject in some detail. I agree with you that the doubts about the authenticity of the newspaper story do not reflect at all on the honesty or otherwise of George Langridge himself - family stories become embroidered in the telling - newspapers are renowned for gilding the lilly.

Steve
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PostSubject: Re: England's fake Isandlawana and Rorke's Drift Hero's    Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:51 pm

Thank you Steve; I shall obtain the book your recommend.
I am searching for an article I remember that had some of 2/24 working in Zululand after the battles. Elusive.
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PostSubject: England's Fake Isandlwana & RD Heroes   Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:06 am

Hi All
I think you'll find that it was mounted troops like the 17th Lcrs , 1st Kings Dragoon Gds , Mtd infantry and Mtd Colonials that buried the troops , also some Native Troops were used , I can't recall reading of any ' Other Ranks ' of Imperial Infantry being involved in the Burial Parties at Isandlwana , fairly certain all those that went were on Horseback ! , its about a 20 mile return trip on foot , I doubt if Imperial Infantry where present . Happy to be corrected .
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PostSubject: Re: England's fake Isandlawana and Rorke's Drift Hero's    Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:51 am

Gary,

I take it that you are only referring to the initial burials.

Bear in mind Glyn’s request for the 24th to bury their own dead.

3rd/60th were also deployed to iSandlwana to bury remains.

Working parties could quite conceivable have been conveyed by wagons.

JY
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PostSubject: England's Fake Isandlwana & RD Heroes   Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:10 pm

Hi JY
Yes the initial burials . Didnt the 3/ 60th go there after the war was over ? . Yes they could've gone by wagon , but I cant ever remember reading of Imperial Troops going to Isandlwana in wagons on Burial detail whilst the war was on . Might be worth looking into .
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PostSubject: Re: England's fake Isandlawana and Rorke's Drift Hero's    Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:36 pm

Langridge does not appear on the 2/24th Pay/Muster Roll Apr-Jun 1879 (TNA ref WO16/1580) although he is listed in C Coy roll in Bassage's diary (Clerk/Storeman c Coy 2/24th). This Bassage roll dates September 1879. I assume that Langridge joined C Coy (then based at Rorke's Drift) from a draft in July 1879 and was immediately deployed as part of a burial party to Isandlwana. He could have written home stating that he was at Rorke's Drift and Isandlwana - and the family assumed that he was actually involved in the actions at those locations the previous January.
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PostSubject: Re: England's fake Isandlawana and Rorke's Drift Hero's    Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:43 pm

Gary,

Some members of the 1st (King’s) Dragoon Guards went dismounted, so I believe they would have had to been conveyed there by some means.  The famous photograph of the dismounted trooper at iSandlwana is evidence for that, standing near to the ambulance with his shovel. He is clearly not wearing riding boots.

Yes the 3rd/60th burial parties under Maurice O’Connell were conducted post the campaign, but the most of the 24th were pre-occupied themselves until after the conclusion of the campaign.

Perhaps given Kenny’s information, wagons were also used as a means of conveyance for ‘C’ Co., 2nd/24th.

JY
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PostSubject: Re: England's fake Isandlawana and Rorke's Drift Hero's    Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:51 pm

Fifty dismounted Dragoons (1st KDG) under Lt Burney (Burial of June 1879).
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PostSubject: Re: England's fake Isandlawana and Rorke's Drift Hero's    Tue Nov 07, 2017 2:16 pm

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PostSubject: Re: England's fake Isandlawana and Rorke's Drift Hero's    Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:42 pm

Kenny wrote:
Langridge does not appear on the 2/24th Pay/Muster Roll Apr-Jun 1879 (TNA ref WO16/1580) although he is listed in C Coy roll in Bassage's diary (Clerk/Storeman c Coy 2/24th).  This Bassage roll dates September 1879.  I assume that Langridge joined C Coy (then based at Rorke's Drift) from a draft in July 1879 and was immediately deployed as part of a burial party to Isandlwana.  He could have written home stating that he was at Rorke's Drift and Isandlwana - and the family assumed that he was actually involved in the actions at those locations the previous January.  

Thank you for your comments and research...This is an important aspect from the point of view relating to the obituary in the Sevenoaks article...It contained details, not from an interview previous to Pte Langridge's death, but taken as factual because of the Zulu Wars locations, at which, as you mention, Pte Langridge may have been used as workforce afterwards ( a possibility that I had in mind early on)
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PostSubject: Re: England's fake Isandlawana and Rorke's Drift Hero's    Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:30 pm

Hi All

This is the whole article from THE KENT & SUSSEX COURIER

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PostSubject: Re: England's fake Isandlawana and Rorke's Drift Hero's    Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:47 am

Yes, I had seen this- many thanks.
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PostSubject: Re: England's fake Isandlawana and Rorke's Drift Hero's    Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:51 am

I don't suppose that there is a summary to the works carried out after the battles: completion of burials and so on?
I think that much of the evidence is scattered through society magazine and so forth?
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PostSubject: Re: England's fake Isandlawana and Rorke's Drift Hero's    Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:37 am

Langridge is on p.26 of England's Sons for more info.
Based on the evidence: he did not enter Zululand. He was not at Isandhlwana.
The statements regarding his service in the newspaper are false. It is difficult to imagine where the statements could have come from if not from the family and ultimately from him.
He was in C coy and Bassage does so record him - but that does not mean he was with the invasion column.
There is no reason to suspect (concoct a situation?) that he might have been with a burial party before the war's end and should have received a bar.
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PostSubject: Re: England's fake Isandlawana and Rorke's Drift Hero's    Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:47 am

Thank you for your comments. These would not, however, provide sound evidence without detail.
You say "Based on the evidence" but do you do not provide the real evidence.
You say that he was in C company and is that so recorded and confirmed thereby, but you go on to say, "...that does not mean that he was with the invasion column" However, based on that comment, it does not say (with real evidence) that he was not with the column.
You also say that "It is difficult to imagine where the statements could have come from if not from the family..." Yet, continuing this speculation, I could equally state (without here saying that they did or did not) that the journalist/reporter based their obituary on events that happened in the Zulu Wars because of the stated presence of Mr Langridge in the general situation- and indeed, imagining that he was in the conflict or in Zululand. That us the trouble with research, isn't it? Imagination has a role, but should be confined to the search, but not presented as fact. There are examples of fake news as we all know; but assumptions and that such untruth (or the casuistry of half-truth) arises from the people mentioned in it, should be approached with caution.
If you can provide real evidence- documentary with historical endorsement, and not based on assumption, that would be very welcome. If I were a member of his family, I could obtain the soldier's military record; which might throw some light on the subject. I can try do this by obtaining their help.
My task was not to prove or disprove, it is to get at as much fact about this as possible, in the wider field of the Zulu Wars, so that my interest in the history receives sound exercise, using this matter as example. Thank you.
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PostSubject: Re: England's fake Isandlawana and Rorke's Drift Hero's    Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:38 am

Hi,

Can you not obtain his service record (for a fee) for research purposes?

Based on the evidence presented - No Clasp on his medal against his obituary (written many years later - after 'tales' have become 'truth') I would say he was most likely not in Zululand and definitely (to my mind) not at Isandlwana on the 22/01/79.

If he was entitled to a Clasp - why did he not claim it? If he did survive Isandlwana, why is he not mentioned anywhere - the Imperial troops are fairly well documented. wouldn't he have been interviewed soon after the event by the CoI.

There are/could many reasons why he was not there - secondment, sickness, desertion (though this would probably be recorded somewhere), detached duties.

I agree records are incomplete but unless proof can be found we have to go with the 'known'....as an Archaeologist, we used to have a docterine - "go from the know to the unknown"

To put the ball back into your court - can you provide any substantial evidence to the fact he was there?

My late father served in Suez and as a kid I remember the tales he told me - he got around more than Harry Flashman.....however his service records are arriving in a couple of days, so I will have more of an idea what he embellished or what was anecdotal.

Cheers

Sime
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PostSubject: Re: England's fake Isandlawana and Rorke's Drift Hero's    Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:13 pm

RAL
Thank you for your reply.  To date your posts have not contained any detail.  I was merely writing in the same vein.  However, you are quite right, it is time some primary sources made their appearance.  
Before that, I should say that I am not quite sure what you mean by “real evidence”.  There is no such thing as ‘unreal’ evidence.  The adjective ‘real’ seems rather superfluous.  So…

1. Evidence for “he did not enter Zululand”:
Medals were issued to 24th soldiers based on the service record.  Langridge’s medal was without bar.  Its absence indicates that he saw no service in Zululand. (Source: General Orders, 1st Aug 1880 nos. 103 and 134).  There is no example of a 24th soldier who saw service in Zululand yet did not receive a bar.  Had Langridge been one, especially since he came from a military family, he would have had the situation rectified.  Ergo, he was not with the surviving members of Chelmsford’s column.
2. Evidence for “he was not at Isandhlwana”:
Langridge’s name appears on no contemporary list of survivors.  Those soldiers of the 24th who were with the coys or on detached duty who did survive were recorded meticulously.  Those on detached duty with the I.M.I. and who survived were not recorded with the same accuracy for various reasons – one of which is that the unit’s Paylist and Muster Rolls were lost on the field.  However, it is possible to recreate the Muster from records of detachments from the 24th’s Paylist and Muster Rolls.  Langridge was not detached for such purpose and not in the I.M.I. (Source: TNA, WO16 1454 & WO16 1982.)
3. Evidence for “it is difficult to imagine where the statements could have come from if not from the family and ultimately from him”:
The newspaper states that “In 1876, when only 18 years of age, he enlisted in the 2nd Battalion The South Wales Borderers and accompanied the Regiment to South Africa, where he fought in the Zulu War of 1879, the engagements at which he was present including the disaster of Isandhula, from which a remnant of the British forces escaped, and he took part in the relief of the besieged garrison at Rorke’s Drift which followed.”  I.e. the newspaper is explicit in its conviction that Langridge participated in Isandhlwana and Rorke’s Drift battles.  You wrote that “the journalist/reporter [could equally have] based their [sic] obituary on events that happened in the Zulu Wars because of the stated presence of Mr Langridge in the general situation - and indeed, imagining that he was in the conflict or in Zululand.”  That is entirely illogical and highly speculative – why would a journalist have confined his comments to Isandhwana & Rorke’s Drift?  Why not Hlobane, Kambula or Ulundi at which members of the 24th were present (though not the regiment in its entirety).  Obituaries are not created by journalists based on general research.  They are composed with the help of family members.  One at least of his surviving relatives – a wife, 5 sons and 3 daughters - would certainly have been involved in its composition.  Of course I cannot prove the family was consulted but the nature of the other remarks in the obituary indicate that it was, viz. “Deceased, who was 66, had only been ill a few weeks, although he had been in indifferent health for years past. With his accustomed keenness, he was out at his allotment on the day of his death, but on his return about dinner time serious symptoms developed, and he passed away peacefully a few hours later” and “The family are now all at home with the exception of one son.”  (Source: Sevenoaks Chronicle 24.3.1924).  And of course noblesse oblige.
4. Evidence for “he was in C coy”:
Both Muster Rolls and the Bassage Notebook confirm this (Sources: 2-24/2452  Bassage, Corporal, James, 2/24th, C Coy 2/24th, Regimental Museum of the Royal Welsh, accession no. 2002.21.1.1 and WO12 & 16).
5. Evidence for “he was not with the invasion column”:
See no. 1.
6. Evidence for “there is no reason suspect that he might have been with a burial party before the war’s end and should have received a bar”:
See no. 1.  Had he performed such a role he would have received a bar.

You wrote: “If you can provide real evidence- documentary with historical endorsement, and not based on assumption, that would be very welcome.”
I have done so with all primary sources quoted.
You wrote: “If I were a member of his family, I could obtain the soldier's military record; which might throw some light on the subject. I can try do this by obtaining their help.”
You do not have to be a family member.  TNA records are open to the general public.  You can research this yourself.
You wrote: “My task was not to prove or disprove, it is to get at as much fact about this as possible, in the wider field of the Zulu Wars, so that my interest in the history receives sound exercise, using this matter as example.”
I trust your interest has been duly exercised, using this matter as example.
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RAL@Lee-Riley.Me.UK



Posts : 12
Join date : 2017-11-05

PostSubject: Re: England's fake Isandlawana and Rorke's Drift Hero's    Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:26 pm

Thank you for your reply; which I have printed for my use, and will study it and reply in due course.
Just to say that evidence cannot be unreal as you say, but I did not refer to "unreal evidence" (your comment) but of circumstantial evidence, which is evidence, not of the actual fact to be proved, but of other facts from which that fact may be presumed with more or less certainty. We both know that evidence is not speculative. This is what I meant by real evidence.
I looked over what you  have researched- and I am obliged. It has so far raised some interestimg questions.
Sincerely
Raymond
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Julian Whybra



Posts : 1993
Join date : 2011-09-12

PostSubject: Re: England's fake Isandlawana and Rorke's Drift Hero's    Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:57 pm

RAL

You misunderstand. You referred to 'real evidence' three times in your post at 10.47 a.m.:
"but do you do not provide the real evidence...it does not say (with real evidence)...If you can provide real evidence".
I merely pointed out that the phrase has no meaning since there is no such thing as unreal evidence.

I am well aware of the nature and usage of circumstantial evidence. However, there is none to suggest that Langridge might have escaped from Isandhlwana. There are just hard facts to prove he did not.

Neither does the research I have provided you with raise any interesting questions. It just provides you with the evidence to prove my point.
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RAL@Lee-Riley.Me.UK



Posts : 12
Join date : 2017-11-05

PostSubject: Re: England's fake Isandlawana and Rorke's Drift Hero's    Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:06 pm

No, I don't misunderstand you: the evidence you quote is very strong; my purpose is to accept that which is indicative of establishing that evidence with any that may endorse or refute any within that scope. Of course, I find that my biggest enemy to researching emotive issues is oneself. An imagination (accompanied by experiences in the military, and then police service and detective) does not always help objectivity, although it can be useful.
Your contribution I find useful.
R.
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Kenny



Posts : 323
Join date : 2013-05-07
Location : Brecon

PostSubject: Re: England's fake Isandlawana and Rorke's Drift Hero's    Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:12 pm

Raymond,

Pe Langridge's regimental number 25B/2662 makes highly unlikely (I was going to say impossible) for him to have been at Isandlwana or Rorke's Drift on 22/23 January 1879.  A check of the various rolls indicate that he was posted to 2/24th on 18 July 1879 after being drafted from UK.  

Personal numbers play a big part in tracking people down.  If you examine the rolls, for those soldiers with numbers close to Langridge - almost all were transfers from other regiments who volunteered for service in South Africa following the losses suffered by 24th at Isandlwana.

25B/2660 - Pte Banna - joined 2/24th on 18 July 1879
25B/2669 - Pte Clifford - joined 2/24th on 2 May 1879
25B/2661 - Pte Crundle - joined 2/24th on 18 July 1879
25B/2668 - Pte Morrison - joined 2/24th on 28 May 1879

Julian is a dedicated, accurate and experienced researcher - his published research is well-respected.
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RAL@Lee-Riley.Me.UK



Posts : 12
Join date : 2017-11-05

PostSubject: Re: England's fake Isandlawana and Rorke's Drift Hero's    Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:28 pm

Thank you, Kenny.
I have no reason to doubt the quality of the evidence presented- or the contributor; I do not see that my debate disqualifies that, or shows disrespect: the task of the researcher is to research without fear or favour as they say.
I also have come to believe that Mr Langridge was not in the battles mentioned, as the wealth of evidence to date supports that. I merely look for those anomalies of service that sometimes arise- such as, being detailed to serve in a capacity not normally ordered for an individual. I've experienced it several times, and the military has to make do under difficult circumstances due to exigency.
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