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 Discovering the Battlefields of the Anglo Zulu War, by Ken Gillings

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Chelmsfordthescapegoat

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Discovering the Battlefields of the Anglo Zulu  War, by Ken  Gillings - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Discovering the Battlefields of the Anglo Zulu War, by Ken Gillings   Discovering the Battlefields of the Anglo Zulu  War, by Ken  Gillings - Page 2 EmptyWed Oct 01, 2014 9:56 pm

See Frédéric, it's not what you know. It's who you know!!!!!
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PostSubject: Re: Discovering the Battlefields of the Anglo Zulu War, by Ken Gillings   Discovering the Battlefields of the Anglo Zulu  War, by Ken  Gillings - Page 2 EmptyWed Oct 01, 2014 9:57 pm

Sorry Steve did not mean to tease you ( well a bit  Very Happy ) fact
is i value your opinion and that of Frederic to! so when you
posted your opinion on this i took it very seriously.. i do not
intend this to be controversial in any way, but its a fact that
when Shaka built his kingdom it started with a very low base,
it is said as low as 500 souls, as you know his method of 
conquest was to virtually annihilate his enemy's and absorb 
the chosen ones into the fold, my point being this brought 
about an above average amount of inbreeding, which in turn
resulted in definite characteristic's. now this obviously can not
be taken as a rule of thumb because as you will know the Zulu
kings were no different than most other dynastic family's in 
that they made certain the line of succession was by design!.
and they married carefully, brides chosen from the highest in the
land!

I consede that Ngoza and Cetshwayo bear a marked resemblance,
i have been studying your side by sides at intervals most of the
day and now night, Ngoza was of the Qamu and died unexpectedly
in 1869, he was a Natal Zulu! in fact the most important and power-
ful one, his death was of course exploited to the full when it came 
to untangling his legacy..

As JY says the Leopard Claw Necklace was reserved for kings and the
mightiest in the land, that is..Zululand. it is a fact that the British
again showed extreme arrogance and stupidity in not affording these
people the attention they deserved, it was left to people regarded as
ecentrics..Colenso, Stuart, Campbell to attempt to catalog and record
their history, and even as i type this i wonder ' is Steve right ' but i'm
going with my gut instinct that leads me to believe i have been looking
at the last King of the Zulu's.
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PostSubject: Re: Discovering the Battlefields of the Anglo Zulu War, by Ken Gillings   Discovering the Battlefields of the Anglo Zulu  War, by Ken  Gillings - Page 2 EmptyWed Oct 01, 2014 10:08 pm

John Young wrote:
Frédéric,

The answer is simple - consistency.  Look at the two photographs opposite to the photograph you refer to, note the hide.  What you take as a rug is the ground!

Is he wearing the necklace?  No he isn't, that the key in my opinion.  That necklace indicates a man of status, was Ngoza a man of status?  As I mentioned previously he was on the wrong side in 1856 so hardly.

I will seek the advice of a member of the Royal House for their opinion.

John Y.

I haven't forgotten your point on the necklace...
I am (actually) searching photography of warriors with a similar necklace...without success! i have found neklace with "large beads", "piece of bone", carved to resemble leopard's claws, blocks of willow-wood...)
No offense Mister Young, i have many respect for your knowledge.
I ty to understand and learn, that's all!
Bien à vous.
frédéric
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ymob

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PostSubject: Re: Discovering the Battlefields of the Anglo Zulu War, by Ken Gillings   Discovering the Battlefields of the Anglo Zulu  War, by Ken  Gillings - Page 2 EmptyWed Oct 01, 2014 10:26 pm

[quote="John Young"]Frédéric,

The answer is simple - consistency.  Look at the two photographs opposite to the photograph you refer to, note the hide.  What you take as a rug is the ground!

I have made a mistake on the legend of the photography (not Ngoza but a zulu warrior / circa 1853...) No
Sorry
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PostSubject: Re: Discovering the Battlefields of the Anglo Zulu War, by Ken Gillings   Discovering the Battlefields of the Anglo Zulu  War, by Ken  Gillings - Page 2 EmptyWed Oct 01, 2014 10:28 pm

Frederic mon ami, a most important point to know is
again how Politically sophisticated and astute the Zulu
were, and indeed have always been to this present day!
Although Ngoza could be considered powerful in Natal,
to the Zulu he was a traitor and beneath contempt!.
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John Young

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Discovering the Battlefields of the Anglo Zulu  War, by Ken  Gillings - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Discovering the Battlefields of the Anglo Zulu War, by Ken Gillings   Discovering the Battlefields of the Anglo Zulu  War, by Ken  Gillings - Page 2 EmptyWed Oct 01, 2014 10:30 pm

Frédéric,

No offence taken.

Keep looking!

John Y.
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ymob

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PostSubject: Re: Discovering the Battlefields of the Anglo Zulu War, by Ken Gillings   Discovering the Battlefields of the Anglo Zulu  War, by Ken  Gillings - Page 2 EmptyWed Oct 01, 2014 10:31 pm

Chelmsfordthescapegoat wrote:
See Frédéric, it's not what you know. It's who you know!!!!!

Bonsoir,
Impertinence.... Very Happy
Cheers
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rusteze

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PostSubject: Re: Discovering the Battlefields of the Anglo Zulu War, by Ken Gillings   Discovering the Battlefields of the Anglo Zulu  War, by Ken  Gillings - Page 2 EmptyWed Oct 01, 2014 10:44 pm

John

I take your point about the necklace, but I don't know. It will be interesting to hear what the present Royal House think. Just to add to the consideration, here is another photo which I think shows the same rug or matting floor. This time it also shows a posing stand to prevent movement during the exposure (so studio equipment at least). It also appears to me that on the side of the head the subject is wearing the same black ball decoration that Goza/Cetshwayo wears on his forehead.



Steve
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PostSubject: Re: Discovering the Battlefields of the Anglo Zulu War, by Ken Gillings   Discovering the Battlefields of the Anglo Zulu  War, by Ken  Gillings - Page 2 EmptyWed Oct 01, 2014 10:48 pm

John Young wrote:
Frédéric,

No offence taken.

Keep looking!

John Y.

Les and Mister Young,

I think the "battle" on the disputed photography is lost...
But (i hope) with a "good fight" first!! Wink (Mvumbi to HB 19/01/1879)
Cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Discovering the Battlefields of the Anglo Zulu War, by Ken Gillings   Discovering the Battlefields of the Anglo Zulu  War, by Ken  Gillings - Page 2 EmptyWed Oct 01, 2014 11:34 pm

Frederic, i do not presume to post with authority..i read
a bit, i remember a bit, we are all on the same road.
Steve, the title is Theophilus Shepstone and the forging
of Natal, i have mentioned it a few times, Mr Guy is as
thorough and meticulous as i like my historians and 
researchers to be. i thought you surely would have known
from which work i was highlighting you being a fellow
bookaphile. like i said just a good natured tease before.
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Discovering the Battlefields of the Anglo Zulu  War, by Ken  Gillings - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Discovering the Battlefields of the Anglo Zulu War, by Ken Gillings   Discovering the Battlefields of the Anglo Zulu  War, by Ken  Gillings - Page 2 EmptyWed Oct 01, 2014 11:39 pm

ps is the figure you posted above vertically challenged?
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rusteze

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PostSubject: Re: Discovering the Battlefields of the Anglo Zulu War, by Ken Gillings   Discovering the Battlefields of the Anglo Zulu  War, by Ken  Gillings - Page 2 EmptyWed Oct 01, 2014 11:49 pm

Les

Thanks for the reference, my library is not as extensive as yours. Very Happy  As to vertically challenged, I think it is undoubtedly the case.

Steve
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PostSubject: Re: Discovering the Battlefields of the Anglo Zulu War, by Ken Gillings   Discovering the Battlefields of the Anglo Zulu  War, by Ken  Gillings - Page 2 EmptyThu Oct 02, 2014 12:15 am

The anatomy of the Zulu army by Ian Knight:
p.119
Tokens of authority.
"Various others items denoted rank and status. Leopard claws were used together with large red beads to form a necklace wich only men of the highest status were permitted to wear".

I understand: not only the King.
It seems to me that Dabulamanzi, the half-brother of the King wore necklace with leopard claws without beads (see the sketch above / the same photo / the photo on a horse with Dunn).
As Mister Young says, Ngoza was on the wrong side in 1856.
But (he seems to me that) he was a man of status in the opponents to Cetewayo.
So....
Cheers.

I.E: Less, mon ami, you have a lot of knowledge. So, you can post with authority, no problem with me!. As you say, we are on the same road The study of the AZW is a pleasant and fascinating hobby for me.
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PostSubject: Re: Discovering the Battlefields of the Anglo Zulu War, by Ken Gillings   Discovering the Battlefields of the Anglo Zulu  War, by Ken  Gillings - Page 2 EmptyThu Oct 02, 2014 8:17 pm

Back on topic. Gents please remember I'm not able to monitor the forum 24/7. Some posts that others find offensive may remain on the forum, until I log on. Like most on here I don't work 9-5.

I would appricate if members could leave the images they post on the forum, if they want them removed, let me know and I will remove them. There is no point removing images and leaving a greyed out box saying image deleted. If it continues, i will prevent the member involved from posting images all together.
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Discovering the Battlefields of the Anglo Zulu  War, by Ken  Gillings - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Discovering the Battlefields of the Anglo Zulu War, by Ken Gillings   Discovering the Battlefields of the Anglo Zulu  War, by Ken  Gillings - Page 2 EmptyThu Oct 02, 2014 9:19 pm

Admin you started off so well, of course its understood about
the time delay..but why did you have to make the last line
sound like a heavy handed threat? you might end up with no 
images at all..which presents me with a problem!  i once told 
a fellow member ( impi ) comes to mind, that once i had learned
to post images i would! and i feel now that i post far to many..
photobucket has informed me that my free allocation is very
nearly full so i was going to delete a shed load, but your comment
above could cause a person to think of consequences..luckily 
for me, i am not that person..what do you advice.

Oh and Steve, i thought you were 100 percent right in removing,
in the light of that offensive trash! no need to reply mate.
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Discovering the Battlefields of the Anglo Zulu  War, by Ken  Gillings - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Discovering the Battlefields of the Anglo Zulu War, by Ken Gillings   Discovering the Battlefields of the Anglo Zulu  War, by Ken  Gillings - Page 2 EmptyFri Oct 03, 2014 4:01 pm

Post the links to the ones you want deleted.
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PostSubject: Re: Discovering the Battlefields of the Anglo Zulu War, by Ken Gillings   Discovering the Battlefields of the Anglo Zulu  War, by Ken  Gillings - Page 2 EmptyFri Oct 03, 2014 4:27 pm

Admin

Just for the sake of clarity, I take it you mean PM you with the links to images I wish to delete? Happy to do that.
However, in the rare circumstance that an image of mine is being abused it may be some hours before you are available to take action - in that case I hope you would agree that the presence of a blank box is a lesser evil than allowing the abuse to continue for that time.

Steve
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warrior3




Posts : 100
Join date : 2010-06-28
Age : 58
Location : Maidstone, Kent

Discovering the Battlefields of the Anglo Zulu  War, by Ken  Gillings - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Discovering the Battlefields of the Anglo Zulu War, by Ken Gillings   Discovering the Battlefields of the Anglo Zulu  War, by Ken  Gillings - Page 2 EmptyFri Oct 10, 2014 8:41 pm

Hi
I'm still waiting for Ken Gilling's book which I ordered off of Amazon in Nov 13! Is anyone experiencing this problem? Not with other companies, but just Amazon.
Thanks
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Ken Gillings




Posts : 205
Join date : 2009-10-20
Age : 76
Location : Pinetown, KwaZulu-Natal, South Africa

Discovering the Battlefields of the Anglo Zulu  War, by Ken  Gillings - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Discovering the Battlefields of the Anglo Zulu War, by Ken Gillings   Discovering the Battlefields of the Anglo Zulu  War, by Ken  Gillings - Page 2 EmptyFri Oct 10, 2014 9:03 pm

Plan "B" is to order via 30 Degrees South's website - or iGo Books in Pinetown. That aside, the books are now in the UK and the USA via Casemate.
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Chelmsfordthescapegoat

Chelmsfordthescapegoat


Posts : 2593
Join date : 2009-04-24

Discovering the Battlefields of the Anglo Zulu  War, by Ken  Gillings - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Discovering the Battlefields of the Anglo Zulu War, by Ken Gillings   Discovering the Battlefields of the Anglo Zulu  War, by Ken  Gillings - Page 2 EmptyFri Oct 10, 2014 9:16 pm

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Chelmsfordthescapegoat

Chelmsfordthescapegoat


Posts : 2593
Join date : 2009-04-24

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PostSubject: Re: Discovering the Battlefields of the Anglo Zulu War, by Ken Gillings   Discovering the Battlefields of the Anglo Zulu  War, by Ken  Gillings - Page 2 EmptyFri Oct 10, 2014 9:22 pm


Review: Discovering the Battlefields of the Anglo-Zulu War
April 30 2014 at 01:15pm
By BARBARA COLE


"Acclaimed battlefields tour guide, Ken Gillings, who has spent more than 50 years researching the Anglo-Zulu War, has released his third book about his favourite subject.

He says that his Discovering the Battlefields of the Anglo-Zulu War (30 Degrees South, R250) is not intended to replace other historical guides but rather that it could be a useful training manual for potential battlefield tour guides.

And that was because “some of us are getting older”, the military historian grinned at the launch of his latest book at Adams Bookshop, Musgrave Centre.

“You won’t make a lot of money, but if you have a passion, this book will help you,” he said.

Internationally respected Gillings has blended first-hand accounts of the battles passed on from both warring sides, with official or newly researched information that has become available in recent years.

He also takes the reader to some of the more remote rural areas. Gillings told guests at the launch that one of the most difficult hikes he ever made was to where King Cetshwayo was captured at kwaDwaza in the Ngome Forest.

Detailed directions as well as GPS co-ordinates are provided to help travellers who want to take their own journeys of exploration to the various battle sites.

There is also useful information for people planning their journeys.

At Colonel Anthony Durnford’s grave at the Fort Napier cemetery, Pietermaritzburg, for instance, visitors will find that the gate has multiple padlocks. However, the Commonwealth War Graves Commission has put up a sign providing two cellphone numbers where tourists can get one of the combinations.

Another site is situated on the opposite bank of a river, but Gillings warns that it is too deep to wade across safely. And at King Cetshwayo’s grave, visitors should wait for the custodian to arrive before entering the precinct… and “utmost respect should be practised when entering the sacred grave: speak in a low tone and do not turn your back on the grave when leaving the fenced-off enclosure”, Gillings advises.

iNkosi Mangosuthu Buthelezi, who wrote the foreword and whose paternal grandfather, Mkhandumbe Buthelezi, was wounded at the Battle of Isandlwana, says that the book is a valuable addition to the treasury of historical accounts of the war.

He admired how Gillings had captured the pathos of the battlefield without emotively favouring either side.

Gillings, who has two other books in the pipeline, reminded guests of the famous saying: “Those who do not study history are doomed to repeat it.” agree
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90th

90th


Posts : 10881
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 67
Location : Melbourne, Australia

Discovering the Battlefields of the Anglo Zulu  War, by Ken  Gillings - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Discovering the Battlefields of the AZW ; Ken Gillings    Discovering the Battlefields of the Anglo Zulu  War, by Ken  Gillings - Page 2 EmptyFri Oct 10, 2014 10:25 pm

Hi Warrior3
To have been waiting since Nov 13 is a tad over the top I think ! , I would certainly be contacting them , I think your order has gone MIA ( missing in action ! ) No Shocked
Cheers 90th Very Happy
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warrior3




Posts : 100
Join date : 2010-06-28
Age : 58
Location : Maidstone, Kent

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PostSubject: Re: Discovering the Battlefields of the Anglo Zulu War, by Ken Gillings   Discovering the Battlefields of the Anglo Zulu  War, by Ken  Gillings - Page 2 EmptySat Oct 11, 2014 1:58 pm

Hi
Ok. Never heard of Casemate, but I'll give it a go.
Thanks for the replies.
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