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Zulu Dawn Film Lt. Col. Pulleine: Lord Chelmsford assures us that there is no way the Zulu can get around us without our knowing. Col. Durnford: Zulu generals have a nasty habit of doing the unexpected. It might be wise to picket the hills.
 
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The Death of Col: Durnford Screenshot-20190305-200950-Gallery-181x240 At eZungeni, Zulu War of 1879" original painting by Hermanus Willem Koekkoek (1869-1929) (Isandula Collection)
Isandlwana & Rorke's Drift 22nd January 2019
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 The Death of Col: Durnford

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Chard1879

Chard1879

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PostSubject: The Death of Col: Durnford   The Death of Col: Durnford EmptySat Mar 15, 2014 10:19 pm

There's a ring to "Younghusband in this story!!!!

"Privacy and THE DEATH OF COLONEL DURNFORD. The following (relating more particularly to Colonel Durnford's death) is from a private letter written by a friend of that officer, dated Pietermaritzburg, February 9th You will know the whole story from printed sources, but not just how he (Bed, which I heard my. self in a strange way. This little house of ours is so constructed that one hears what is said through the walls and one day during the week after the disaster I overheard a native who had been present at Isandula giving an account to some other natives. I sent my own native servant in to talk too,' in order to make sure that I had heard correctly. The story was chiefly just what we all know; how the camp was not 'ready,' and how when Colonel Durnford arrived the Zulu army was already coming down upon it, and how many of the irregulars fled, but the troops, Colonel Durnford, and a few others fought on at tremendous odds; how the Zulus fell before them by hundreds, and how their places were instantly filled up by others; and how at last our ammunition failed, and all hope was over. Then, says my informant, the Colonel rushed forward alone into the thickest of the enemy, among whom, the man said, his sword went like lightning on every side, so that they fell back from around him, until a bullet from a distance struck him on the forehead, and he fell. I am very sorry for the general, whom I like; but I must speak out, because slanderers are attempting to screen his mistake by putting the blame on Colonel Durnford. But the facts are these. In the first place, the General, having formed a camp at Isandula stayed at it two nights and a day, and left it utterly unprepared to resist an attack. Before leaving, he sent orders to Colonel Durnford  miles back) to bring up the forces to the camp; a note from the Colonel to us, written late the day before (the 21st), shows that he had not then received orders, as he mentions having sent on' to ask. You will not need to be told that he lost no time when he did get the orders; but he had artillery, infantry, a few horses, and many wagons to convoy; so with the first part of his column he was noble to get to Isandula until too late, except to die. The Zulu army was advancing to attack the camp when he rode up. People here are trying to make out that instead of meeting the attack he should have defended the camp, and they ignore the fact that the camp was not defensible, the wagons not' in park,' as they call it, and very little done. Under the circumstances, a bold attack on the attacking force was the only chance, and this cannot, I believe, be denied. There is another thing which people do not seem to look at. The General and the. main body of our troops had gone ahead, as you know, leaving the main body of the Zulu army behind them; had they not been kept at bay so long at Isandula, only overcoming at last by sheer numbers and with tremendous forces, what was between them and Natal r I believe myself that had the Isandula camp been properly prepared before Colonel Durnford's arrival, and I had he been able simply to defend it, the Zulus found I almost at once have passed on and reached Rorke's Drift in full strength, and at an early hour of the day, which would have made all the difference in the defence there. From thence they might easily have come down upon Pietermaritzburg before the General could have got back. What does it look like? He and his army were only from five to eight miles ahead. The gallant little band at Isandula held out for five hours; their guns could be heard by the General, and yet no succour arrived. How they must have fought, and in the momentary expectation of support; and how sickening must have been the slow certainty that none would come."
Weekly Mail  22 March 1879
SOURCE: HTTP://WELSHNEWSPAPERS.LLGC.ORG.UK/EN/PAGE/VIEW/3418544/ART191/COL%20DURNFORD
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Chelmsfordthescapegoat

Chelmsfordthescapegoat

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PostSubject: Re: The Death of Col: Durnford   The Death of Col: Durnford EmptySat Mar 15, 2014 11:41 pm

Old Edward, speaks as though he was there.
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impi

impi

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PostSubject: Re: The Death of Col: Durnford   The Death of Col: Durnford EmptySun Mar 16, 2014 5:35 pm

There are quite a few versions, on Durnford demise?
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DrummerBoy 16



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PostSubject: Re: The Death of Col: Durnford   The Death of Col: Durnford EmptySun Mar 16, 2014 9:17 pm

His body was found stabbed by Dr Thrupp, a very deep wound was inflicted, and the Scott brothers who reburied him make no reference to any head injuries so most
probably just stabbed like all the others.


Cheers
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John

John

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PostSubject: Re: The Death of Col: Durnford   The Death of Col: Durnford EmptySun Mar 16, 2014 10:03 pm

Did he not also receive a bullet wound?
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PostSubject: Re: The Death of Col: Durnford   The Death of Col: Durnford EmptySun Mar 16, 2014 10:06 pm

" Durnfords last moments are not clear. he was
believed to to have been shot through the heart
but his body was also found to be covered with
assegai wounds. he lay on his back-for some
reason the Zulus had not stripped him of any of
his clothes.
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DrummerBoy 16



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PostSubject: Re: The Death of Col: Durnford   The Death of Col: Durnford EmptyMon Mar 17, 2014 7:33 am

There is no mention of a bullet wound by anyone who saw his body and the Zulu's did strip cloths from him - his belts, gun, boots ect were missing and Thrupp mentions a large stab wound on him.


Cheers
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PostSubject: Re: The Death of Col: Durnford   The Death of Col: Durnford EmptyMon Mar 17, 2014 10:40 am

Not my words hence the quotation mark
preceding. that was from the work of R.W.F.
Drooglever's thesis dated oct 1982.on every
page their are detailed source notation's.in
the above description of his demise he list's
191 Durnford, p 239. 192 see the Natal Witness
27 may 1879 " a correspondents visit to Isand-
hlwana". 193 Colenso papers (NA) Frances E
Colenso, vol, 8, Longhurst to Edward Durnford,
Bengal,20th February 1882. Veterinary-Surgeon
Longhurst was present when Durnford's body
was discovered in May.. cheers xhosa
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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: The Death of Col: Durnford   The Death of Col: Durnford EmptyMon Mar 17, 2014 10:57 am

. 192 see the Natal Witness
27 may 1879 " a correspondents visit to Isand-
hlwana".

No Mention of Durnford in that article, cant figure out why it would be referenced?

Cheers
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PostSubject: Re: The Death of Col: Durnford   The Death of Col: Durnford EmptyMon Mar 17, 2014 12:24 pm

thats got me, heres a scan of the page done
5 mins ago, awful quality but the information
is legible, there was no way i could damage
the book, hence sketchy scan..

http://illiweb.com/fa/pbucket.gif?sort=6&o=0
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PostSubject: Re: The Death of Col: Durnford   The Death of Col: Durnford EmptyMon Mar 17, 2014 12:35 pm

Drooglevers declaration re sources

http://illiweb.com/fa/pbucket.gif?sort=6&o=0
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: The Death of Col: Durnford   The Death of Col: Durnford EmptyMon Mar 17, 2014 2:48 pm

Hi Les
Its a short article about Blacks return to the battlefield and a brief discussion about the conditions.

Cheers
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The Death of Col: Durnford Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Death of Col: Durnford   The Death of Col: Durnford EmptyMon Mar 17, 2014 4:32 pm

thanks Frank, wonder what he was on about,
bit of a mix up.. cheers mate
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Chelmsfordthescapegoat

Chelmsfordthescapegoat

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PostSubject: Re: The Death of Col: Durnford   The Death of Col: Durnford EmptyTue Mar 18, 2014 7:17 pm

We will never really know how Durnford really died. No one was there long enough to see.
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Mr M. Cooper

Mr M. Cooper

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PostSubject: Re: The Death of Col: Durnford   The Death of Col: Durnford EmptyWed Mar 19, 2014 12:43 am

The gallant officer and soldiers man Col Durnford, died a hero's death, he, and the other brave souls who rallied to him, fighting to keep the way open for others to escape from the carnage, a very honourable, noble and heroic thing to do, which is a lot more than can be said of Chelmsford, who died playing a game in his club, there is nothing heroic about hitting a ball with a stick old chap.
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PostSubject: Re: The Death of Col: Durnford   The Death of Col: Durnford EmptyWed Mar 19, 2014 2:16 am

agree  totally well said that man.
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: The Death of Col: Durnford   The Death of Col: Durnford EmptyWed Mar 19, 2014 6:06 am

Im not a Chelmsford fan by any means but for all his faults, and there were many, he was extremely well regarded by his men and there are many references and testimony to his more caring side.

"Hitting a ball with a stick?" Really Martin! Generations of snooker players will be turning in their graves.

Cheers
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PostSubject: Re: The Death of Col: Durnford   The Death of Col: Durnford EmptyWed Mar 19, 2014 3:16 pm

Cant agree with that springbok! his more caring side?
he left 1300 men dead at the hill! he ventured out in
enemy territory, split his force without knowing the
dispositions of the enemy, careless, arrogant,and
ultimately not up to the job! Durnford however
carried out his lordships orders to the letter! below is
the extract re Durnfords re internment..

In October 1879 the Colenso's decided to have Durford's
body brought from Isandlwana and buried in the military
cemetery at Fort Napier. the event roused as much interest
among the colonists as the arrival of the body of Louis
Napoleon, the Prince Imperial of France had done a few
months before. it was ironic that the return of Anthony
Durnford to the town that had treated him as a villain was
to welcome his flag shaped coffin as that of an hero!.
The Natal Colonist recorded the occasion:
The sky ( on sunday afternoon ) 12th of october was
dark and threatening, and there appeared every prospect
of a heavy thunderstorm.still, even this did not deter almost
every inhabitant of maritzburg from attending to show their
last tribute to the gallant leader...
At 4.p.m. the coffin covered in the union jack and flowers
and containing the remains was placed on a royal artillery
gun carriage and the procession slowly moved of to the
cemetery...the band of the 99th playing ' the dead march
of saul'.


Practically every regiment in Natal was represented. soldiers
numbering over two thousand followed the cortege. 300 men
of the 24th foot composed the firing party. a short service
was held in the garrison chapel of St George at fort napier and
the route to the grave was flanked by the soldiers with their
arms reversed..
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: The Death of Col: Durnford   The Death of Col: Durnford EmptyWed Mar 19, 2014 5:04 pm





Cant agree with that springbok! his more caring side?
he left 1300 men dead at the hill! he ventured out in
enemy territory, split his force without knowing the
dispositions of the enemy, careless, arrogant,and
ultimately not up to the job! Durnford however
carried out his lordships orders to the letter! below is
the extract re Durnfords re internment..

I prefaced my comments by saying Im no Chelmsford fan and also he made mistakes. But you cant be myoptic in looking at history. Look at his other campaigns, look at the commentry from the Eastern Cape.
AS for Durnford carrying out orders to the letter??? Wishfull thinking Im afraid. His swanning about before being called up to RD. Why did he head of up the Quabe Valley? That cannot be justified in any interpretation of Chelmsfords wished for his column.

Sorry MAte, we need to disagree
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littlehand

littlehand

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PostSubject: Re: The Death of Col: Durnford   The Death of Col: Durnford EmptyWed Mar 19, 2014 7:06 pm

THE ZULU WAR. The following letter has just been received from Sergt. Jones, son of Mr. Timothy Jones, signalman in the employ of the Aberdare Coal Company. The writer is well- known in this locality, having formerly been. A drapers' assistant in this town — Camp Dundee, 7th July, 1879. My Dear brother, —Your ever cheering letter j reached me yesterday evening, and I answer it by return of post, which will satisfy you again for a while that I am on the laud of the living. You cannot imagine with what pleasure I discovered that you, too, favored our fated Commander-in-chief, Lord Chelmsford. I am perfectly aware that nearly the whole of the Conservative as well as Liberal journals condemn his mode of campaign, but what did they know of his tactics from the receipt of the brief news, that they should condemn him without even a trial and hear what he had to say? Some blamed him for dividing his forces, others for going too far from camp, and others for going out at all. Now, my opinion is this, Lord Chelmsford did what any man would have done, viz., he went out to fight the enemy where he knew he could find him, (in his front) while he left his left flank where the enemy was still in greater force than in his front (but he did not know this) unguarded save by the brave 600 of the 24th, but whatever anyone may say, I shall always remain convinced that he did everything for the best. We, the 24th, ought to know what he is made of. There is not a man in the 24th that would not fight and most willingly die for him. ever since we met him on our way back to camp where we were perfectly ignorant of the loss of so many lives and such an abundant supply of stores, ever since the 22nd January, when he halted us and said, "My lads of the 24th, I know I can trust you, you must re- capture the camp by the point of the bayonet and work your way through to Rorke’s Drift." There was not a quiver on his proud lips. And although his brief address was given in gravity, yet it was encouraging and confidential, and every man would willingly have gone through fire and water for him. Who should know better than us, who are the subjects of his loving care and attention? You alluded to the hardships we have to endure here. You really have no idea what hard times it is with us. I have not slept with my clothes and accoutrements oil' for the last 6 months. I gave you a descriptive account of what we had to suffer for the first mouth or two at Rorke’s Drift after the retreat from Isandula we had the cruelest weather to contend with, added to this, v/o had neither clothes, blankets, nor any shelter from the angry elements, nor vessels to cook our food in. I am sorry to have to paint the misery of war in each letter, but God help me, my sufferings are indeed terribly hard. I have no idea what I shall turn my hand to when my time of service expires. I am perfectly certain I shall never be able to work at any hard employment, but I must trust to the Goddess Fate to rule my future, I suppose. We had news here on the 5th instant of a battle that took place between the contending forces. Ulundi (the king's kraal) has been utterly destroyed and a thousand Zulus killed. Our losses, I believe, were about 30 or 40 killed and double that number wounded. You will perceive that we now form part of the Border Guard. We asked the general to go up with him to Zululand, but ho replied that any young regiment would do to go to the front, and he could not trust such important places as the border drifts to others than the 24th and others who are broken in to the campaigning out, but I don t think we need grumble at being left behind, for everybody knows that the gallant .they have done their duty in South Africa since the outbreak in Kalfraria. We have marched the country over and over again, and slept in bush and rock, have had to drink the bush filthy water, and have had to put up with very scanty food and clothing. Oh yes, talking about the condemnation of Lord Chelmsford, by the penny journals, I have read two or three articles in the Saturday Review, which charged those who were fighting in the camp with cowardice Does anyone believe that they were cowards ? No, neither does the editor of the Review believe they wore, but I suppose he would heartlessly charge the bravo men with cowardice for the purpose of drawing more attention towards his journal. The sad but glorious death of those brave men imputed with cowardice and the patient endurance of the living with incompetency and carelessness! May England regret such usage of her brave sons, is the sincere wish of, your affectionate brother, EVAN JONES, Sergeant. 2nd Bat. 24th Regiment. —I forgot to mention my further pro- motion. I was promoted Sergeant on the 3rd April last. You need not expect to learn of any further steps as I am now what is generally I’m at the top of the tree of Non-commissioned officers. I think, if my memory fails not, that I sent you my first letter from South Africa as a Private, second as a Lance Corporal, the third as Corporal, the fourth as a Lance Sergeant, and the present as a Sergeant.

Source; http://welshnewspapers.llgc.org.uk/en/page/view/3025149/ART57
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Mr M. Cooper

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PostSubject: Re: The Death of Col: Durnford   The Death of Col: Durnford EmptyThu Mar 20, 2014 2:47 pm

'Swanning about'  scratch  tut, tut springy, he was obtaining wagons and also trying to gather information about any zulu movements around the area. At iSandlwana he was informed of a large body of zulu's heading in the direction of LC, he went off in search of them in an attempt to stop them from joining up with other zulu's or outflanking or attacking LC, however, he was not to know that they were the left horn that was on the move trying to outflank the right of the British camp, he then slowed them down whilst retreating to the donga, then held them up until his ammo was becoming depleted, and he was also being outflanked on both sides, his position became impossible, he had no other option but to leave the donga and head back towards the camp. It was very unfortunate that just at the same time Pope was ordered to move by Pulliene, this left Pope in a very awkward position, and his men became over run, the survivors later joining Durnford in a last stand to keep the way open for others to escape.

I think that these actions by Col Durnford and his heroic death are a lot more credible than the way LC died, he didn't go out in a blaze of heroic glory, he was just prodding a ball with a cue, not fighting and dying with his men on the battlefield.

He may well have had some faults (haven't we all), but all honour to the gallant Col Durnford, he did his duty, he even gave his horse so one his men could escape the massacre, the man should have been awarded the VC, a real officer and a real soldier.  Salute Salute Salute 
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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: The Death of Col: Durnford   The Death of Col: Durnford EmptyThu Mar 20, 2014 2:58 pm

Hi Martin
I take nothing away from Durnford, he made the ultimate sacrifice indeed. Brave man was he, but he wasn't the paragon of virtue modern thinking is trying to make him out to be. He did have a raft of faults, as did the rest of the officers at isandlwana.
Personally I know that if I could choose my time of passing It would not be standing in front of a bloody big Zulu with a pointed stick in his hand and designs on my abdomen. Rather in a swanky club with rod in hand.  Wink 
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Mr M. Cooper

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PostSubject: Re: The Death of Col: Durnford   The Death of Col: Durnford EmptyThu Mar 20, 2014 8:01 pm

Yes, I can see your point Frank, and thankfully, not the big zulu's point (on his stick)  Shocked 

I suppose that many people would prefer to go out in a little more peaceful way than those poor souls did at iSandlwana, nonetheless, all honour and respect to them.
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Chelmsfordthescapegoat

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PostSubject: Re: The Death of Col: Durnford   The Death of Col: Durnford EmptyThu Mar 20, 2014 8:56 pm

Durnford dug four holes for himself.

1) Disobayed orders.
2) Leading an attack on a Zulu Army in the open, whilst dragging a rocket battery on foot behind him, then left them hanging out to dry.
3)Forcing the British to give him assitance when he knew he had bitten off more than he could chew.
4) Run low on ammuntion retreated to a Donga, used what ammuntion they had left to perserve their own lives. Those who escaped did so because they could they had horses, something Durnford was completely unaware of, but as been credited with keeping the door open.

Loose cannon, firing off in all direction, but none of them being correct.
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The Death of Col: Durnford Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Death of Col: Durnford   The Death of Col: Durnford EmptyThu Mar 20, 2014 10:09 pm

Durnford dug four holes for himself.

1) Disobayed orders.
2) Leading an attack on a Zulu Army in the open, whilst dragging a rocket battery on foot behind him, then left them hanging out to dry.
3)Forcing the British to give him assitance when he knew he had bitten off more than he could chew.
4) Run low on ammuntion retreated to a Donga, used what ammuntion they had left to perserve their own lives. Those who escaped did so because they could they had horses, something Durnford was completely unaware of, but as been credited with keeping the door open.

Loose cannon, firing off in all direction, but none of them being correct.


thank you ctsg..your point's.
1) Wrong.
2) Ditto
3) Ditto
4) Ditto

I could point out where and why you are!
but i know enough to know, you are not
rational re Durnford..
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ADMIN

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The Death of Col: Durnford Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Death of Col: Durnford   The Death of Col: Durnford EmptyThu Mar 20, 2014 10:50 pm

xhosa2000 wrote:
Durnford dug four holes for himself.

1) Disobayed orders.
2) Leading an attack on a Zulu Army in the open, whilst dragging a rocket battery on foot behind him, then left them hanging out to dry.
3)Forcing the British to give him assitance when he knew he had bitten off more than he could chew.
4) Run low on ammuntion retreated to a Donga, used what ammuntion they had left to perserve their own lives. Those who escaped did so because they could they had horses, something Durnford was completely unaware of, but as been credited with keeping the door open.

Loose cannon, firing off in all direction, but none of them being correct.


thank you ctsg..your point's.
1) Wrong.
2) Ditto
3) Ditto
4) Ditto

I could point out where and why you are!
but i know enough to know, you are not
rational re Durnford..


 agree  nicely done!
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The Death of Col: Durnford Empty
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