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 Le Prince Imperial Napolian IV. By Eric Pradelles.

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PostSubject: Le Prince Imperial Napolian IV. By Eric Pradelles.   Le Prince Imperial Napolian IV. By Eric Pradelles. EmptyTue Apr 01, 2014 8:55 pm

A few month ago I met a French fellow, a terrific guy, named Eric Pradelles who has a website on the Prince Imperial and who has just written a new book on him featuring documents and various writings from his brief life.  There are tons of photos in it.  Alas, it is in the French language, but still.....   I'm posting this roughly translated letter from French Doctors Barons Corvisart and Larrey as the coffin from South Africa was opened in England, and they examined and verified the body:   The photo is of his book and where you could buy it on the net. 
 

" On 11 July 1879 to 5 ½ hours after lunch, in one of the buildings depending on the Woolwich Arsenal , we signed under Baron Doctor Corvisart and Baron Doctor Larrey, member of the Institute , being present at the opening the coffin of His Imperial Highness Monseigneur the Prince Imperial , declare that we have found the body in the supine position , hands on the abdomen.

Size, the general conformation of the body, the head , body and limbs, hair color and beard as well as the appearance of the face , despite starting the drying surface portions were recognized , not s ' mistaken the person of His Imperial Highness .

Particular sign as we quickly found a narrow and rounded scar , just a few centimeters from the left hip forward and the greater trochanter . This known especially Dr. Baron Corvisart and faithful servant of Prince ( Uhlman ) scar results from the puncture of an operation formerly made with a trocar by Dr. Nélaton to give solution to the suppuration of a traumatic abscess this region as a result of an accident scar already recognized by Uhlman Pietermaritzburg when the body of the deceased Prince had been locked in the coffin after embalming.

Strips surrounding the head and supported his chin were then cut to the forehead and skull showed no injury.

In the right eye there was a penetrating wound with torn eyelid vertically on an area of about 2 cm, wound produced by a pungent instrument , sharp and was able to penetrate deep into the orbit with current destruction of the eyeball.

A chest , we found :

1 in the upper right side and inside near the sternoclavicular joint penetrating wound oval 
2 ° between the 4th and 5th coast, near the sternum , both right and left , two wounds 2 to 3 cm each gaping and may have been sufficient to cause death ,

3 ° right another wound similar and the same appearance as the previous ones, though smaller in size at the edge of the ribs.

A abdomen we point to the top and left , another wound formed by an input of about 3 cm in width and opening a very narrow exit wound forward of the corresponding lumbar region , such that could have a sharp and pungent instrument through from side to side .

It remains to add that there was on the whole surface of the body injuries received otherwise than in front.

We still have to report the left forearm a deep double wound, extent and oblique , having crossed this region right through the middle part of the ulnar edge , with denudation and muscle hernia, and also a close second wound level of the elbow of the same arm , the latter appearing to be the exit wound of a sudden spear received , the left arm being in a position of parade .

Among the secondary injury , it would be superfluous to describe , it was apparent to the upper lip on the right side was cracked.

This wound interested a tooth that had broken and he was examined the dental system , as will be established by another document. In witness whereof we have signed . "


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Posted on behalf of forum member " Isandula"

http://www.priceminister.com/offer/buy/254403085/le-prince-imperial-napoleon-iv-correspondance-inedite-intime-et-politique-de-eric-pradelles.html
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Le Prince Imperial Napolian IV. By Eric Pradelles. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Le Prince Imperial Napolian IV. By Eric Pradelles.   Le Prince Imperial Napolian IV. By Eric Pradelles. EmptyTue Apr 01, 2014 9:03 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Le Prince Imperial Napolian IV. By Eric Pradelles.   Le Prince Imperial Napolian IV. By Eric Pradelles. EmptyTue Apr 01, 2014 9:34 pm

Isandula. Will English copies ever be available?
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PostSubject: Eric Pradelles's book on the Prince Imperial   Le Prince Imperial Napolian IV. By Eric Pradelles. EmptyTue Apr 01, 2014 10:49 pm

Dave, I don't think so, at least at this point---I've been copying and pasting into Google translator. However, on his website, I've noticed some replies in English to queries concerning the Prince.
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Le Prince Imperial Napolian IV. By Eric Pradelles. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Le Prince Imperial Napolian IV. By Eric Pradelles.   Le Prince Imperial Napolian IV. By Eric Pradelles. EmptyWed Apr 02, 2014 2:02 am

I think he commented on my short film.
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Le Prince Imperial Napolian IV. By Eric Pradelles. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Le Prince Imperial Napolian IV. By Eric Pradelles.   Le Prince Imperial Napolian IV. By Eric Pradelles. EmptyWed Apr 02, 2014 6:59 am

Dose'nt agree with the Evidence of Mwunzane who says the body was stabbed twice from behind and also Surgeon Scotts evidence of two wounds in the back.

Cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Le Prince Imperial Napolian IV. By Eric Pradelles.   Le Prince Imperial Napolian IV. By Eric Pradelles. EmptyWed Apr 02, 2014 9:17 am

Unless they observed the exit wounds ?
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PostSubject: Re: Le Prince Imperial Napolian IV. By Eric Pradelles.   Le Prince Imperial Napolian IV. By Eric Pradelles. EmptyWed Apr 02, 2014 10:27 am

Yeah Scott said that, I think he was being discreet. But Mwunzane was very clear about it. When Louis turned to defend himself he slipped in an ant hole. Xabanga stabbed him then Langalibalele, then he fell on his back and was stabbed again by Langalibalel. Then Mwunzane says: " one Zulu stabbed him in the side (Langalibalele ) Two others got him in the back.
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PostSubject: Re: Le Prince Imperial Napolian IV. By Eric Pradelles.   Le Prince Imperial Napolian IV. By Eric Pradelles. EmptyWed Apr 02, 2014 9:13 pm

Archibald Forbes." Pince Napoleon's body was found in a donga a
hundred and fifty yard's from the Kraal. it was stripped naked, and
lying on the back. There was no bullet wound, but there was eighteen
Assegai stabs- two piercing the body from the chest to the back.( me!
explains the back wound ) Two in his side,and one destroying the right
eye. the face wore a placid expression.

Here is an account of the opening the coffin at Woolwich..

This scene, so terrible to the assistants, lasted for a considerable time.
on opening the coffin it was found that the operation of embalming the
the corpse, always difficult when several wounds have been inflicted,
had been imperfectly performed, and that, although decomposition had
not proceeded to any very great extent. The features of the ill fated
prince had undergone such serious change as to make the work of
recognition almost as difficult as it was painful. some of the features
had suffered terribly, but all doubt as to the identity of the deceased
prince was set at rest by the peculiarity of his dentition. Mr Rouher
declared himself " satisfied " as to the identity of the body. Uhlmann.
the old personal servant of the prince, who carried the sword of his
dead master, fainted at the sight of the distorted features of one
he had loved so well and served so faithfully.

I pass Uhlmann, the princes servant, he is like one demented. in a
voice broken by tears and sobs he tells how he saw the princes
body riddled with horrible wounds, the left side was transpierced
through. the prince had parried the Assegai's with his left arm, which
was shockingly mutilated.
Another extract say's..

The body was found lying in a semi-recumbent position on a slope
the arms being pressed close to the chest. there are in all eighteen
wounds, five of which would have been fatal. there was a wound in
the foot, and another in one of the eyes, as though an assegai had
been thrown and struck him there and subsequently had been then
wrenched out.it was these wound which had caused the discoloration
and swelling on one side of his face, the flesh apparently having been
roughly torn when the assegai was withdrawn. There was also a slight
wound in the mouth, and a tooth knocked out, apparently by the
thrust of an assegai.

extracts from. Empress Eugenie and her Son by Edward Legge.
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Le Prince Imperial Napolian IV. By Eric Pradelles. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Le Prince Imperial Napolian IV. By Eric Pradelles.   Le Prince Imperial Napolian IV. By Eric Pradelles. EmptyWed Apr 02, 2014 9:38 pm

"The " Gaulois " of July 16, 1879, contained the
following : —

"Our London correspondent informs us that the Empress has been saddened by the statements which represent the body of her son as having been horribly disfigured. The aromatic herbs used for the embalming blackened the flesh, which has given rise to a belief that there was a decomposition which does not exist. The Empress said, " I hope nobody will be disquieted about my son's reputation ou dans ses inter^ts."

Comte d'Herisson thus comments upon the
Empress's reported observation :

The body, then, was not decomposed? How was Mr Evans able to examine the Prince's jaw? And if he was able to accomplish this tour de force, by what illusory phenomenon was he able to recognise as his own the work of three other dentists? It is, however, this recognition which permitted him to solemnly affirm that it was the Prince's body !

The " Daily News " of Tuesday, July 15, 1879,
reported :

The document completing the formal identification of the remains of the late Prince Louis Napoleon was legally signed yesterday by the persons appointed for that purpose — viz. Prince Murat, the Due de Bassano, Mr Evans and Dr Corvisart. Dr Conneau testified to recognising a wound on the hip which the Prince received from a fall when a child. The injury left a lump of coagulated blood. Mr Evans (who, when he saw the remains, held the features in such a manner that Prince Murat and others were better able to recognise them) testified to the identity of certain teeth which he had filled. The coffin was sealed in the presence only of the executors named in the will. Before this was done a quantity of the Prince's hair was cut off for the Empress. Lomas, the Prince's orderly, who was sent out to assist in finding the body and bring it into the British camp, has given some further details in respect of the matter. He says the body was found lying in a semi-recumbent position on a slope, the arms being pressed close to the chest. There are in all eighteen wounds, five of which would have been fatal. There was a wound in the foot, and another in one of the eyes, as though an assegai had been thrown and struck him there, and subsequently been wrenched out. It was these wounds which caused the discoloration and swelling of one side of his face, the flesh apparently having been roughly torn when the assegai was withdrawn. There was also a slight wound in the mouth, and a tooth knocked out, apparently by the thrust of an assegai.

In the " Daily News " of July 14, 1879, the Paris correspondent reported that the " Figaro " devoted
two pages to " revised and supplementary correspondence from its late correspondent in Zululand,"
M. Deleage, who returned to Europe with the Prince's body. Deleage and others went out to find the three bodies : The first body (that of a trooper) they found had the head covered with a piece of flannel. Deleage comments on the fact that the savages themselves were so shocked at the mutilation of the dead man's face that they sacrificed a scrap of flannel to conceal the horror. Two hundred yards farther the body of the Prince was found. It was quite naked. The stiffened arms were a little crossed upon the breast, and the head slightly inclined to the right. There was no trace of suffering on the face. The mouth was slightly open, the left eye shut, the right eye had been crushed out by an assegai. There were seventeen or eighteen wounds, all in the front,and according to Zulu custom the stomach was cut open, but there was a very slight incision, and the entrails did not protrude. Dr Scott and Dr Robertson agreed that the Prince was killed by the assegai that pierced his right eye and penetrated the brain, and that all the subsequent wounds were inflicted on a dead body. In a previous dispatch to the " Figaro " M. Deleage stated that he had " vainly tried to close the Prince's remaining eye, which yet reflected gentleness and goodness."

On July 5, 1879, Archibald Forbes telegraphed from Landsman's Drift an account of the battle of Ulundi, which was published in the ' Daily-News " of July 28. In this telegram Forbes described some of the barbarities practised by the Zulus upon our troops. " In the long grass Buller's men found three comrades who had fallen in a reconnaissance the previous day, mangled with fiendish ingenuity, scalped, their noses and right hands cut off, their hearts torn out, and other nameless
mutilations."

Dr Gannal, the eminent Paris embalmer, asked for his opinion, wrote, under date March 12, 1890:

It is a question of the death of an officer abroad as the result of wounds in the principal organs — the heart, lungs, etc. — whose body was embalmed and then brought to Europe. You ask me if it is possible that, merely by the opening of the coffin some days after the embalming, the body could become black and absolutely unrecognisable, as it was found to be when, two months afterwards, the official recognition took place. To that question I reply, no. ... If, however, the embalming had not been performed with all due care it would have been found that the body was brown, green in places, swollen by gases, the tissues softened ; in one word unrecognisable perhaps, but not black. . . . You also ask me if it is possible to open the mouth of a dead person two months after the embalming, in order to see if the molars had been filled with gold. If the body has been well preserved (embalmed), I answer, no; if it is in a state of decomposition, yes, but it would be a dangerous operation, which few of my colleagues would consent to perform unless they should be medecins tegistes, who make a speciality of these painful researches. ... I do not believe a dentist competent to conscientiously perform such an operation.

Comte d'Herisson asserts that J. Lomas and J. Brown (both in the Prince Imperial's service as grooms) told him that, on the discovery of the body, they had " recognised " it as that of the Prince :

They were deceived. Neither Lomas nor Brown was the first to " recognise " the Prince, for the reason that when the body was found it was hardly recognisable. The
body, completely naked, bore seventeen assegai wounds, some in the face and some in the chest. The assegai is a terrible weapon, making frightful wounds. Only imagination can supply the details which are lacking of the Prince's death. Once he and his companions in misfortune were killed they were all treated alike. Thus the Prince, like the two others, was despoiled of his clothes ; the Zulus, in accordance with their custom, disembowelled him ; for, contrary to Lomas's statement, they had plenty of time to perform this barbarous operation. . . . Lomas, like a faithful and devoted servant, repeated what he had been told to say. Never could he have seen in a head from which one eye had been wrenched, as well as a part of the cheek, while one lip was smashed, and there were several other wounds, a face " full of grace, and
almost smiling." If the face was in that condition, why was no photograph taken? That was the best way to prove the identity of the dead Prince. . . . The English had a well-
organised photographic service in the war with China in 1860. Twenty years later they must have had all facilities for photographing the body of the Prince if it had been considered desirable. We know what the sentiments of Europe will be when it is found that the coffin contains a body so completely mutilated [as that of the Prince Imperial].

My friend Monsignor Goddard declared, after seeing the body, that it was not in any way disfigured. I saw the coffin finally closed before it was taken from Woolwich to Chislehurst. It was considered inadvisable to permit the Empress to take a last look at the remains of her heroic son."

_________________
"Do the staff think we are going to meet an army of schoolgirls? Why in the name of all that is holy do we not laager?"
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Le Prince Imperial Napolian IV. By Eric Pradelles. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Le Prince Imperial Napolian IV. By Eric Pradelles.   Le Prince Imperial Napolian IV. By Eric Pradelles. EmptyWed Apr 02, 2014 10:50 pm

All the above is verbatim from Legge's book
Empress Eugenie and her Son. and then i
suppose syndicated by the then media!.
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littlehand

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PostSubject: Re: Le Prince Imperial Napolian IV. By Eric Pradelles.   Le Prince Imperial Napolian IV. By Eric Pradelles. EmptyWed Apr 02, 2014 11:27 pm

Some where on the forum, there is the offical autopsy.
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PostSubject: Brutal descriptions of the Prince Imperial's body-compliments of Eric Pradelles   Le Prince Imperial Napolian IV. By Eric Pradelles. EmptyFri Apr 04, 2014 12:05 pm


I can bring two complementary evidence; 1 Pierre de Bourgoing and the 2nd Jules Espinasse , both childhood friends of the Prince and present at the recognition of the body Woolwich, July 11, 1879 .

1) Stone BOURGOING ( "Son of Emperor ," Journal I know everything, June 15, 1909 ) :

"The remains were transported by sailors in the Pavillon de l'Arsenal . There, after visiting the Princes of the royal family of England, it was proceeded to open coffins.

The first pine , contained in a second tree also , lined with white silk . Both were separated by coffins lead foil . Bags of materials to ensure the preservation of the body , the linen that covered the gauze wrapped directly , were successively removed. The body appeared to us then . He had a bright yellow hue. The figure, seen from above , was hardly recognizable because of the injury that had reached the right eye and profoundly altered this part of the face ; but , with my knees , I found the end of this profile if poor Prince.

The body bore six major injuries and all equally deadly .

The first was a penetrating wound to the right eye. The second was on the right side in the upper chest . Three other gaping wounds were being right and left of the sternum. A wound to the upper part of the abdomen , passing through the body from side to side . The left forearm was two deep wounds.

There exist on the entire surface of the body other than injuries before . They were all in the chest that the Prince presented to the enemy. "



2) Jules ESPINASSE (" Memories of childhood and youth with the Prince Imperial ," [ 1928 ] ) :

"The next day we went to Woolwich to receive and recognize the body

Prince who , under the conduct Uhlmann , was transhipped from the " Orontes " on " Enchantress " and then landed in the Arsenal.

The coffin containing the body of the Prince Imperial was deposited in a small building

isolated . This was where the British had us back and we had to recognize .

Now , my memories become clearer : the French called to identify the body were

few : they were the followers of the House of the Emperor, the childhood friends

Prince, named in his will.

I see the general Prince Murat , the Duke of Bassano, Conneau Bizot and Dr. Evans,

Dr. Corvisart .

The room in which stood the coffin was quite large, located on the ground floor

leading directly to the outside; it was very clear.

The wooden coffin was opened ; it contained a lead coffin whose lid was

soldered and place starting on the side of the head.

Let see the cover removed the shroud which were one or two

photographs of the Emperor or Empress qu'Uhlmann was placed there at the time

where the body had been transferred from zinc coffin , made on the ground with metal

boxes of canned in its final lead coffin .

There was also a small box containing the zinc minutes of burial.

These objects removed, the shroud was lifted and we saw what remained of our Prince ...

Horror ! We had before us a mummified human form , the color of a glove

Skin dark brown Sweden.

The young man was lying there naked, harmonious lines of its body, but slaughtered.

The head had two terrible injuries, the right eye popped , cheek completely

split her showing teeth.

The left forearm back on the chest was chopped multiple cuts from

shots or cutting edge he had sought to parry.

Chest was pierced through and through by a thrust ; other injuries less

, shallow saw too.

The abdomen was opened a large gash .

No injury to the legs, no scar on his right arm stretched normally ; anything by

behind . Despite these horrific mutilations, the body of the fallen hero fighting

seemed to rest in peace in death ...

At first, he was unrecognizable , I did not recognize my Prince ... half of his face was torn ...

Anxiously , I watched the body of martyr , seeking in these chopped leftover image

that I had seen plenty of youth and life ...

First, I found very neat memories of the whole body , as if I had seen

often discovered when we swam in the lake of Constance .

It was her wide and bulging chest, his shoulders drooping , his chest a little long by

compared to his legs, which I recognized distinguished lines .

It was also good the shape of his head : the wide and high forehead , slightly curved, the

hair, bleached indeed, but slightly undulating and planted as I remembered them .

I had to make a big effort of reasoning and memory , but I no longer doubted ;

it was him ...

Fortunately for me, although I kept a terrible impression of the sight of his

mutilated body is still in the glow of her beautiful youth that I see him ...

Dr. Corvisart found on the hip track of the operation that had been made

Paris in 1867 by Dr. Nélaton .

Dr. Evans examined his mouth and said to us that he recognized the gold caps

he made it.

Finally, we have the testimony of Uhlmann and Laumas , who had attended the

first burials .

It was the body of the Prince Imperial that the English made ​​us ... "



PS: I can now confirm that there will be an "English" version of my book ... The decision is indeed my editor .
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PostSubject: Re: Le Prince Imperial Napolian IV. By Eric Pradelles.   Le Prince Imperial Napolian IV. By Eric Pradelles. EmptyFri Apr 04, 2014 1:12 pm

Can i take it from the last line, that we can expect
the english version in the nearest future, possibly
this year?.
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PostSubject: Re: Le Prince Imperial Napolian IV. By Eric Pradelles.   Le Prince Imperial Napolian IV. By Eric Pradelles. EmptyFri Apr 04, 2014 8:37 pm

It would benefit the author if it was translated into English!
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