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 Pte. Patrick Miller KIA Isandlwana

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Tim Needham

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PostSubject: Pte. Patrick Miller KIA Isandlwana   Sun Nov 02, 2014 1:29 am

I came across the following page on the CWGC site regarding Pte. William Patrick Miller of the Royal Newfoundland Regiment who died in 1915 - his father was 1-24/508 Pte. Patrick Miller (1st Btn 24th) who was killed in action at Isandlwana.

http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/722451/MILLER,%20WILLIAM%20PATRICK

Patrick Miller's wife Frances died in Canada in 1926 & is buried in Hardwood Cemetery, Sydney, Nova Scotia; there is no mention on her headstone of either her husband or son.

Regards,

Tim
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Kenny



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PostSubject: Re: Pte. Patrick Miller KIA Isandlwana   Sun Nov 02, 2014 3:25 pm

Tim,

This is one of strange coincidences which conflict seems to bring forth. Pte William Miller of the Newfoundlanders landed in Gallipoli on 20 Sep 1915 - the battalion was assigned to 88th Brigade of the British 29th Division - he was wounded and died aboard a hospital ship on 17 Oct 1915 - and was buried at sea. He is commemorated on the main Newfoundlander memorial at Beaumont Hamel, France where so many of members of this battalion perished on the first day of the Somme. In the 29th Division - 87th Brigade - was 2nd Battalion South Wales Borderers - the old 2/24th who were at Rorke's Drift and Isandlwana. The hospital ship - was a Union-Castle line ship called SS Galeka - the local tribe which kept the 1/24th busy in 1877-78. So Francis and 5 children (including young William Patrick) must have been in South Africa at the time of the Frontier and Zulu wars.
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Tim Needham

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PostSubject: Re: Pte. Patrick Miller KIA Isandlwana   Sun Nov 02, 2014 6:02 pm

Kenny,

Many thanks for the extra info, I did read something about 'SS Galeka' whilst looking into this & thought it a bit of a coincidence....

Do you have any further information on Patrick & Frances' other children?

Regards,

Tim
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rusteze

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PostSubject: Re: Pte. Patrick Miller KIA Isandlwana   Sun Nov 02, 2014 9:38 pm

Hi Tim

Here are a couple of leads that might get you a little further. First a Roll of the Married Establishment of 1/24th in South Africa 1876 showing Patrick and Francis and five children ages 13 to 4 months.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

And a family tree from Ancestry showing the descendants in Canada of their daughter Elizabeth.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Hope it helps.

Steve
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Tim Needham

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PostSubject: Re: Pte. Patrick Miller KIA Isandlwana   Sun Nov 02, 2014 10:24 pm

Steve,

Many thanks, much appreciated.

Regards,

Tim
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Kenny



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PostSubject: Re: Pte. Patrick Miller KIA Isandlwana   Mon Nov 03, 2014 1:23 am

Tim,

1-24/508 Pte Miller was in St Helena with H Coy (Capt Wardell/Lt Cavaye) 1/24th between Aug 1876 and Aug 1877.
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PostSubject: Re: Pte. Patrick Miller KIA Isandlwana   Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:14 am

Rusteze,

Is it possible for you to email me the Roll of the Married Establishment from 1876 showing Patrick and Frances's children. I am their great-great grandchild from Newfoundland. Descended from their daughter Elizabeth. I've been trying over the years to piece together more info of Patrick and Frances's marriage and postings.

Any help would be much appreciated.


Regards,

Rod
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rusteze

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PostSubject: Re: Pte. Patrick Miller KIA Isandlwana   Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:34 pm

Hi Rod and welcome.

Here is the entry for Patrick and his family in the Roll of the Married Establishment for 1/24th in 1876. There is also the entry for his posting to St Helena with H Company. Both of these references are in the Pay and Muster books of the 1/24th at the National Archives at Kew. Anything more you can tell us about Patrick would be of great interest.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
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Regards
Steve Reinstadtler
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PettyHr78



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PostSubject: Re: Pte. Patrick Miller KIA Isandlwana   Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:17 am

Thanks Steve for the info, much appreciated. I found some info a few years back saying that Patrick was born in Dublin around 1835, same with his wife Frances around 1844. I know they were stationed on the Island of Malta, as their daughter Elizabeth, my great-grandmother was born there July 1867. That's the only other place I've been able to track down with regards to his postings, other than St. Helena and South Africa. Do you know if there are individual graves at the site of the battle or is there just a monument honouring the fallen soldiers? I would love to visit the site some day.

Cheers,

Rod Madden
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John Young

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PostSubject: Re: Pte. Patrick Miller KIA Isandlwana   Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:15 pm

Ron,

I was actually on Park Street, Sydney, Nova Scotia, back in October.  I wish I’d picked up on this thread then. I could have photographed the family home if it is still standing.

In the meantime here’s a close-up from the memorial roll of the fallen from iSandlwana that shows his name:

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JY
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PettyHr78



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PostSubject: Re: Pte. Patrick Miller KIA Isandlwana   Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:07 pm

Thanks Steve, much appreciated. I visited Frances home on Park Street back in 2009 and brought my father as well. Frances actually moved to Newfoundland prior to Cape Breton, around the turn of the century. She lived with her son, William Patrick Miller, on Random Island, (which is a small island off Newfoundland). After William was killed at Gallipoli, she moved to her daughter's Elizabeth's house in Maddox Cove (close to the capital city of St. John's) and lived with my grandfather until she moved to Sydney to live with her other daughter Janie.

Patrick's and Frances journey from the time they were married, various postings, Patrick's death in South Africa and then the rest of the families journeys back to England and then America, has sparked my fascination for years. I am under the belief that after Patrick's untimely death in South Africa, the family became somewhat destitute. Both the younger boys, Thomas and William were sent off to Hibernian military school in Dublin. Do you know if there was any type of military pension or medals Frances would have received after Patrick's death?


Cheers,

Rod
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PettyHr78



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PostSubject: Re: Pte. Patrick Miller KIA Isandlwana   Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:10 pm

Sorry, last post was thanks to John
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John Young

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PostSubject: Re: Pte. Patrick Miller KIA Isandlwana   Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:48 pm

Rod,

There was a Widows and Orphans fund set up for the 24th’s casualties, and apart from possibly receiving a partion of any outstanding pay I doubt there was a pension. So it would not surprise me after following the drum she became destitute.

As to a medal, for his services in the 1st Battalion, 24th (2nd Warwickshire) Regiment, Patrick was entitled to the South African General Service Medal with the clasp 1877-8-9, which could have been claimed by Frances as his next-of-kin.

By-the-way we loved the Maritimes and look forward to return in the future.

Regards,

John

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Kenny



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PostSubject: Re: Pte. Patrick Miller KIA Isandlwana   Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:11 pm

Rod,

508 Miller joined 1/24th on 7 Dec 1859 and would have been at the locations:

1858 - 22 March 1861 India, various stations
22 March 1861 - 27 July 1861 At sea
27 July 1861 - 22 May 1862 New Barracks,Gosport, Hampshire
22 May 1862 - September 1862 Anglesea Barracks, Portsea, Hampshire
September 1862 - April 1864 North Camp, Aldershot
28 April 1864 - 29 March 1865 Shorncliffe, Dover
31 March 1865 - 3 August 1865 Curragh Camp, Ireland
5 August 1865 - 22 February 1866 Beggers Bush, Dublin, Ireland
22 February 1866 - 8 August 1866 Curragh, Ireland (New Colours: 21 June 1866)
16 August 1866 - 30 September 1866 Belfast and Londonderry
13 October 1866 - 29 February 1868 Fort Verdala, Malta
1 March1868 - 23 September 1869 Floriana Barracks, Malta
23 September 1869 - 29 February 1872 Fort Ricasoli, Malta (Coys at Zabbas Gate & Salvatore)
5 March 1872 - 28 November 1874 Gibraltar
2 January 1875 - 1877 South Africa, various locations: Cape Town, Wynberg, Simon’s Town, Griqualand, King William’s Town, East London, Kir Town, Transkei, Transvaal (detachment in St. Helena August 1876 to August 1877)
1877 - 1879 Kaffir and Zulu War

His name is actually recorded on the memorial panel in the Havard Chapel in Brecon Cathedral. Miller was awarded a South Africa War Medal with a clasp 1877-8-9. He would have qualified for a Army Long Service & Good Conduct Medal - but there must have been earlier entries on his conduct sheet to prevent this award - there are no personal papers surviving to be able to check this. At the time he was in St Helena, he was a Lance Corporal so for some reason he reverts back to the rank of Private.

A fund was established for the Widows and Children sponsored by the Lord Mayor of London (The Queen gave £100), but we have no indication of how much each individual received. It could be upwards of £100 - which it about 3-years wages in those days.
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PettyHr78



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PostSubject: Re: Pte. Patrick Miller KIA Isandlwana   Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:36 pm

Thanks so much John and Kenny for the info.

Kenny,

Is there any record of Patrick and his wife Frances marrying either in Dublin or Hampshire? I know after Patrick's death, Frances ended up in Portsea, Hampshire, prior to the families journey to Newfoundland and Canada a number of years later.

It's interesting to see Patrick's various postings. As a navy man, I had a port visit to Gibraltar a few years back. So knowing that I actually walked the same roads as Patrick is pretty neat.

With regards to the Good conduct medal and his reduction in rank to private, one can only surmise as to the particulars of what may have lead to this. Back talking to an officer perhaps....haha.

Do you know if Patrick's full military and personal documents are held at the National Archives, Kew? I know a lot of Irishmen joined British forces over the years as a way to make a living but I'm curious how Patrick ended up joining the 24th.

Regards,

Rod
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rusteze

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PostSubject: Re: Pte. Patrick Miller KIA Isandlwana   Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:42 pm

Hi Rod

The questions you raise about financial support for the families of those soldiers who perished in the war is an interesting one and has not yet been adequately explored. As it happens, I also have an ancestor who served with the 1/24th and perished at Isandhlwana. He too had his family with him, consisting of his wife and five children (one as yet un-borne). I have done a certain amount of work on the funds established to support the widows and orphans, but have much more to do as the information is buried in the annual reports of The Royal Patriotic Fund.  I will begin another thread on the subject and set out what I have learned so far (they did indeed get a pension) so as not to get the subject too mixed up with your ancestor.

PS I am afraid you will not find Patrick's papers at Kew. The army did not retain any papers for those killed.

Steve Reinstadtler
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PettyHr78



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PostSubject: Re: Pte. Patrick Miller KIA Isandlwana   Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:06 am

Kenny,

Do you know if Patrick was a member of any other regiments prior to joining the 24th in 1859?


Thanks,

Rod
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Kenny



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PostSubject: Re: Pte. Patrick Miller KIA Isandlwana   Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:53 pm

Rod

It is possible that he could have joined the Dublin County Light Infantry (Militia) or the Royal Dublin City Militia. Both part-time units which you could join at age 17 (regular army was age 18 or 14 for boy's service). Any surviving enlistment papers would be in WO96 series in the National Archives at Kew. As far as I can see nothing survives for these particular units. It is a long shot and would not provide much information if found.
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