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Captain Ronald G.E. Campbell, Coldstream Guards. killed at Hlobane
[Mac & Shad] Captain Ronald G.E. Campbell, Coldstream Guards --killed at Hlobane (Mac and Shad) (Isandula Collection)
Rob Caskie at a Showcase Event 2014
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 24th Other-Rank, but could it be...?

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John Young

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PostSubject: 24th Other-Rank, but could it be...?   Fri Feb 27, 2015 10:31 pm

I picked this photograph up recently, and I thought I would throw it open to the forum.

It appears to show a Private soldier in a regiment which wore the Sphinx subscribed Egypt as its collar badge.

Now I am very aware this was not unique to the 24th (2nd Warwickshire) Regiment, however, what struck me was that there was a marked similarity to a certain Private of the 24th, who normally appears in photographs looking older and heavier in weight.

Any comments welcomed.

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A Private soldier in a pre-1881 serge frock.
John Young Collection.

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littlehand

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PostSubject: Re: 24th Other-Rank, but could it be...?   Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:34 pm

You thinking " Hook "
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rusteze

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PostSubject: Re: 24th Other-Rank, but could it be...?   Sat Feb 28, 2015 12:59 am

There is a similarity to Hook, particularly hairstyle. Some thoughts.

Is the facing colour on the collar the right shade in comparison to the red of the jacket for the 24th? The other pictures of Hook seem to show a darker collar.

The bar of the pocket watch chain in the second button hole doesn't appear in any Hook photo. But it does appear in photos of John Williams (Fielding) VC, who has a similar hairstyle.

Intriguing.

Steve
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PostSubject: Re: 24th Other-Rank, but could it be...?   Sat Feb 28, 2015 9:05 am

Littlehand,

I am indeed.

Steve,

I was searching for ages yesterday for an early photograph of Hook, which can only date from 3rd August 1879 until he received his campaign medal in 1881.  I knew whose collection it used to be in, but I can't recall where it had been reproduced.

After I posted on the forum I finally found it.  Take a look at page 114 of Zulu - Isandlwana and Rorke's Drift 22nd-23rd January 1879 by Ian Knight.  (The one 90th calls the silver book, I don't know why as mine is brown and in a green slip-case!)  There's Hooky complete with a watch bar through his second buttonhole, albeit he is wearing his tunic rather than serge frock.

On your point about the collar facing colour if I hit the exposure button on photo-editor all this comes up:

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John Young Collection.

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John

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PostSubject: Re: 24th Other-Rank, but could it be...?   Sat Feb 28, 2015 11:06 am

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John Williams (Fielding) (1393 B Co. 24th. Regiment)

Haircut? Very simular.
Watch bar 2nd button down. Not saying the chap in JY photo is Williams, just pointing out that the particular haircut and watch bar weren't unique to Hook. Facial wise he looks nothing like Hook.
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PostSubject: 24th Other -Rank , but could it be ...?    Sat Feb 28, 2015 11:08 am

Hi John
I call it the Silver book simply because mine is in a Silver Dust Jacket . You need to study mo
90th
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PostSubject: Re: 24th Other-Rank, but could it be...?   Sat Feb 28, 2015 12:42 pm

It does look similar to the Silver Book image - this is the same one.

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and this an image from a family tree, said to be Hook, that I found last year. Kris Wheatley now has it on her site.

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The sphinx collars in your image seem to have a tail - not all regiments are like that, so you might eliminate a few that way.

Steve
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PostSubject: Re: 24th Other-Rank, but could it be...?   Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:54 pm

Steve,

That's the one!

Most photographs we actually see of Hook date from about 1889 or later, the photographer Edgar Prout moved from Camden Square to 76 St. Paul's Road, Camden Town, N.W. London. The image that 'impi' uses as his avatar dates from that time-frame.

90th,

That's the cheap & nasty version, isn't it? Joker

Regards,

John Y.
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PostSubject: Re: 24th Other-Rank, but could it be...?   Sat Feb 28, 2015 4:34 pm

There were both male and female sphinx collar dogs, some with longer tails than others, and don't forget that Hook was wounded by a spear to his head at RD, maybe that's why he needed to part his hair in the middle, to keep the wound clear and let nature take its course to heal it.
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John

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PostSubject: Re: 24th Other-Rank, but could it be...?   Sat Feb 28, 2015 5:48 pm

I would have thought, JY photo, why prior to RD if that was Hook.
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PostSubject: Re: 24th Other-Rank, but could it be...?   Sat Feb 28, 2015 5:51 pm

John wrote:
I would have thought, JY photo, why prior to RD if that was Hook.

Sorry you've lost me there?

JY
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PostSubject: Re: 24th Other-Rank, but could it be...?   Sat Feb 28, 2015 6:55 pm

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PostSubject: 24th Other Rank , but could it be ....?    Sun Mar 01, 2015 7:09 am

Hi John Y.
'' Cheeky bugger '' .... cheap and nasty version ! Joker . I call it the less expensive version , although , it still isn't what I'd call cheap , especially after adding postage , as you are probably aware , it isnt the standard size . You need to study mo Very Happy Very Happy
90th Joker
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