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Lt. Melvill: Well done, Sir! Did you see that Noggs? Deceived him with the up and took him with the down. Norris-Newman: Well well, this one's a grandfather at least. If he'd been a Zulu in his prime I'd have given odds against your lancer, Mr. Melvill.
 
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Lt. (Captain) J.B. Carey, 98th, Ityotozi River--
(Isandula Collection)
Military Odyssey 2016 - Zulu War Era British Encampment
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 Durnford was he capable.6

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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Durnford was he capable.6   Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:01 am

There is the argument of course that although Durnford was impatient at iSandlwana ( ate standing up) he did wait until the lookout/Higginson had reported that the enemy was retiring before electing to move of. Ergo the enemy is going away, the camp is safe, he wasn't needed, carry on with the work Chelmsford wanted from him.
Brings a certain logic to his movements.

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PostSubject: Re: Durnford was he capable.6   Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:32 am

I think he was waiting for an indication of what was happening and as soon as he thought he knew he was off. I hesitate to use the word, but a sort of pincer movement to trap the supposed zulu force heading for Mangeni between himself on the plain and his mounted companies on the plateau. "Ate standing up" - saddle sore. Is it wise to open this thread again?

Steve
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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Durnford was he capable.6   Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:39 am

Morning Steve
ive never been accused of being wise....................handsome, suave, debonair yes.........never wise Very Happy Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Durnford was he capable.6   Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:39 pm

You give credit to Durnford for his mistakes!!! Rolling Eyes
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PostSubject: Re: Durnford was he capable.6   Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:50 pm

Littlehand,
What were his mistakes for you?
Cheers
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ymob

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PostSubject: Re: Durnford was he capable.6   Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:56 pm

Frank Allewell wrote:
There is the argument of course that although Durnford was impatient at iSandlwana ( ate standing up) he did wait until the lookout/Higginson had reported that the enemy was retiring before electing to move of. Ergo the enemy is going away, the camp is safe, he wasn't needed, carry on with the work Chelmsford wanted from him.
Brings a certain logic to his movements.

Cheers

Frank,
I am curious to know that was for DURNFORD this work that CHELMSFORD wanted from him.
Cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Durnford was he capable.6   Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:58 pm

rusteze wrote:
I think he was waiting for an indication of what was happening and as soon as he thought he knew he was off. I hesitate to use the word, but a sort of pincer movement to trap the supposed zulu force heading for Mangeni between himself on the plain and his mounted companies on the plateau. "Ate standing up" - saddle sore. Is it wise to open this thread again?

Steve

Steve,
"A pincer movement"...
Steve,
Martin is hidden behind you???
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PostSubject: Re: Durnford was he capable.6   Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:00 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Frank is this the one!!!!
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PostSubject: Re: Durnford was he capable.6   Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:59 pm

Was the COE regarding the disaster at Isandlwana legal, or was it done out of hand. Question
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PostSubject: Re: Durnford was he capable.6   Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:17 pm

Yes it was legal.
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PostSubject: Re: Durnford was he capable.6   Wed Nov 18, 2015 5:20 am

LH
Yes that refers to the report sent by Chelmsford. I have the original report, just need to locate it.

Sorry missed your other post on Credit for Durnford. Yes I think he deserves a certain amount of credit not all his actions were bad, possible what I posted could be close to the truth. If it was it does show less of a cavalier attitude and reflects a more considered approach against the Snook version of a gung ho cowboy.

Ulundi/Ray
Without a doubt legal but moral? Ah different question.

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PostSubject: Re: Durnford was he capable.6   Wed Nov 18, 2015 5:22 am

Frederic
We will probably never know, but in my own mind Im sure there were other considerations on his mind that day.

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Je n'ai pas peur
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PostSubject: Re: Durnford was he capable.6   Wed Nov 18, 2015 5:50 am

. Wink Salute
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PostSubject: Re: Durnford was he capable.6   Mon Dec 28, 2015 9:43 pm

ymob wrote:
Frank wrote (Durnford was he capable 5? 26/02/2015)

"The report of the tall officer riding a red roan seems to be a  'Chinese Whisper' Moodie quotes a 'Times reporter' who mentions that the officers from Blacks patrol were 'told' that  the tall officer etc. Third or forth hand rumour........... So no source for the story seems to exist. Or at least non that I can find.
Frederic, can you amplify the Corp Frowen reference for me.


Bonsoir Frank,
The subject "Durnford was he capable 5?" is locked....
My "source" was  Lee Stevenson:
"Further to earlier answers, i have just come accross account by L/Cpl Frowen 2/24th who makes an interesting comment about the 2/24th Colours.
"...and the last that was seen of our colours was the officer galloping away with one in each hand and the reins of his horse in the teeth, but he was drowned crossing the Buffalo river, so we have lost all our colours, and the 1-24th have lost one of theirs, and would have lost the other but it was left at Helpmakaar..."


No other information given by the author....

Source: Rorke's drift forum / 27th september 2002 post by Lee Stevenson / Subject "Lieutenant Dyer saving a colour" by Paul Tocher 18th September 2002.


"Mieux vaut tard que jamais" Wink
Cheers
Frédéric

Bonsoir,

Source: "Selected writings of the late William Moorsom Laurence, Major Commanding left wing Kimberley Horse and Editor of the Diamond News" (1882)

p.52

"A visit to Isandhlwana" / Rorke's Drift, 15th May, 1879.
"It was with no small satisfaction thaht I learnt on arriving here yesterday thaht htere was a probability of a reconnaissance being pushed forward to the scene of action of the 22 January on the following day. Lieut.-CoL BLACK, who is temporary command of the garrison during the absence of Lieut.-Col. DEGACHER, announced his intetion the same evening. (...) The primary object of the expedition was to ascertain the truth of the report received by Mr FYNN, to the effect that two large impis were between Isandhlwana and the border; it was also thought that there was a last chance of recovering oine of the lost colours of the 2/24th, it being reported that Lieut. DYER, of that Regiment, had made an attempt to escape with the Queen's Colour. (...). At about five o'clock this morning we started, walking our horses as silently as possible (...). On reaching the banks of the Buffalo, instead of crossing it immediately three of us rode back to the foot of the himm down which the fugitives had come, and leaving our horses in charge of a native at the bottom, climbed it on foot, as a last hope of recovering one of the lost colours. There were no signs of the colours or of the body of Lieut. DYER, who was said to have tried to carry them off, but about half way up the hill and about 300 yards from the river, we came across the remains of Major Stuart SMITH, of the Artillery, who was easily recognised by his unifrom , which was intact . He lies in precisely the place which was indicated by Lieuts CURLING and SMITH-DORMER [sic] their evidence beforce the Court of Enquiry".

About Laurence:
According to the "Diamond News, March, 22nd, 1881" (p.4): "When the Zulu War broke out (...) He [Laurence] was one of the first officers sent out, and he was horoubly mentioned in the newspaper press at the time for the zeal and skill wich he displayed in organizing the transport service. Had it not been for an accident which confined him to quarters at Maritburg, he would probaly have been on the field of Isandhlwana or among the heroic defenders of Rorke's drift". fter an fifference with some of the local military authorities, he determined to resign his commission, and proceed with the advancing column as a special correspondant.

"Local General orders relating to the AZW of 1879" by Keith I. SMITH
n°79 dated 8th April 1879, Times of Natal, 11th April 1879:
"Assistant Commissary Laurence, Commissariat and Transport department having applied for permission t o resign his commission , leave of absence is granted to that officer to proceed to England, pending retirement".

Cheers

Frédéric




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PostSubject: Re: Durnford was he capable.6   Sat Jun 18, 2016 1:07 am

In the film Zulu Dawn, Durnford is seen during his first encounter with the Zulu's sending a Sgt to LC to enlighten him on the situation. Did Durnford on the day in 1879 send any messengers to LC?
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