WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM

Film Zulu Dawn:Lt. Col. Pulleine: His Lordship is of the cetain opinion that it's far too difficult an approach to be chosen by the Zulu command.Col. Durnford: Yes, well... difficulty never deterred a Zulu commander.
 
HomeHome  CalendarCalendar  GalleryGallery  PublicationsPublications  FAQFAQ  SearchSearch  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  
Latest topics
Colonel R.T. Glyn, 1/24th Regt. kwaSokhexe, Ulundi
[Mac and Shad](Isandula Collection)
Secrets Of The Dead The Mystery Of Zulu Dawn
Search
 
 

Display results as :
 
Rechercher Advanced Search
Top posters
90th
 
littlehand
 
Frank Allewell
 
ADMIN
 
Chelmsfordthescapegoat
 
John
 
Mr M. Cooper
 
1879graves
 
impi
 
rusteze
 
Fair Use Notice
Fair use notice. This website may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorised by the copyright owner. We are making such material and images are available in our efforts to advance the understanding of the “Anglo Zulu War of 1879. For educational & recreational purposes. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material, as provided for in UK copyright law. The information is purely for educational and research purposes only. No profit is made from any part of this website. If you hold the copyright on any material on the site, or material refers to you, and you would like it to be removed, please let us know and we will work with you to reach a resolution.
Top posting users this month
Drummer Boy 14
 
Frank Allewell
 
rusteze
 
90th
 
ADMIN
 
SRB1965
 
Julian Whybra
 
ymob
 
1879graves
 
xhosa2000
 
Most active topics
Isandlwana, Last Stands
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Durnford was he capable.5
Durnford was he capable.1
Durnford was he capable. 3
Durnford was he capable.2
Durnford was he capable. 4
The ammunition question
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
The missing five hours.

Share | 
 

 HALLAM-PARR: new camp the 23/01 for

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
AuthorMessage
ymob

avatar

Posts : 1948
Join date : 2010-10-22
Location : France

PostSubject: HALLAM-PARR: new camp the 23/01 for    Fri Oct 09, 2015 5:07 pm

HALLAM-PARR was with CHELMSFORD's column in the Mangeni the 22 january.
In "Major-General Sir Henry Hallam Parr" (1917) he wrote: "(...) about 1 p.m. [he 22 January] it was decided that the camp at Isandlwana should be struck, and the headquarters advanced to a position selected near the conical hill. The troops at Isandlwana were to march on the morning on the 23rd to the camp near the conical hill, and the troops already in the neighbourhood were to bivouac on the new camping-ground that night". (p.111).

Some interesting points on Chelmsford's mind about the Isandhlwana garrisson for the 23 January?

Cheers.

Frédéric

Back to top Go down
http://frbomy@hotmail.fr
rusteze

avatar

Posts : 2219
Join date : 2010-06-02

PostSubject: Re: HALLAM-PARR: new camp the 23/01 for    Sat Oct 10, 2015 1:02 am

An interesting find Frederic. Does that mean that the order to Pulleine was to move camp to the Conical Hill and not Mangeni? What does that mean for Durnfords force? Hallam-Parr is a credible witness but why does no-one else mention this camp at the Conical Hill?

Steve
Back to top Go down
90th

avatar

Posts : 9341
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 61
Location : Melbourne, Australia

PostSubject: new camp the 23/ 1 / 79   Sat Oct 10, 2015 3:23 am

Hi Frederic / Steve
HHP is certainly not referring to the Conical Hill on the plain as I think you may be referring to ? . HHP states they arrived at the conical hill where the force of the previous night had camped at 8.30am , which was 4 hrs after they left iSandlwana ! . I think he's referring to a similar hill in which they proceeded to , or has possibly been a misprint ? . Conical hill on the plain would only have been a few hundred meters from the firing line . Hope this makes sense ? Joker
90th You need to study mo .
PS . In my copy it's on Pages 190-192 .
Back to top Go down
Frank Allewell

avatar

Posts : 6471
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 70
Location : Cape Town South Africa

PostSubject: Re: HALLAM-PARR: new camp the 23/01 for    Sat Oct 10, 2015 7:45 am

I would fully agree with 90th.
The 'conical hill in front of iSandlwana is named amaTutshane, the one refered to by HHP is Mdutshane.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
This the Mangeni valley shot from the side of the Gorge. The new camp site is on the right of the photo, straight ahead is Mdutshane, the conical hill refered to. Dartnells night stop is of shot to the left. The ridge that the officers and Chelmsfrod looked back onto the camp runs across the photo from the foot of the hill.
Hope that helps.

Cheers
Back to top Go down
ymob

avatar

Posts : 1948
Join date : 2010-10-22
Location : France

PostSubject: Re: HALLAM-PARR: new camp the 23/01 for    Sat Oct 10, 2015 9:12 am

Bonjour,

Mdutshane is without doubt the conical hill described by HP.
As Steve said, HP was a credible witness, a member of the staff, the man who received the famous message of Pulleine at 9.30 a.m.

About Chelmsford's mind, the points are :
-the move of the camp for the 23;
-despite clear signs of a strong enemy presence in the area, CHELMSFORD persisted in keeping its forces divided for the next 24 hours.

Cheers

Frédéric
Back to top Go down
http://frbomy@hotmail.fr
ymob

avatar

Posts : 1948
Join date : 2010-10-22
Location : France

PostSubject: Re: HALLAM-PARR: new camp the 23/01 for    Sat Oct 10, 2015 9:13 am

Frank, thanks for the picture.
Back to top Go down
http://frbomy@hotmail.fr
rusteze

avatar

Posts : 2219
Join date : 2010-06-02

PostSubject: Re: HALLAM-PARR: new camp the 23/01 for    Sat Oct 10, 2015 11:25 am

Thanks Gary/Frank

That's a great picture. On the previous page Hallam-Parr says goodbye to his servant who was due to go back to Natal. He replies that he will still be at Isandhlwana when Chelmsford returns as there will now be no wagons going back to Rorke's Drift that day. It sounds chaotic with wagons travelling in both directions. Why would they have been going back given they had only just got there, and with some difficulty.

Steve
Back to top Go down
Frank Allewell

avatar

Posts : 6471
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 70
Location : Cape Town South Africa

PostSubject: Re: HALLAM-PARR: new camp the 23/01 for    Sat Oct 10, 2015 11:48 am

Hi Steve
Smith Dorrien was busy getting supplies to iSandlwana from RD. Interestingly if the attack was on the 23rd, most of the supplies, biscuit boxes and mealie bags would have been transported to iSandlwana. Wonder how Chard would have made out?

Cheers
PS Ive got a panorama some where of that whole basin, I will dig out and post it.
Back to top Go down
Frank Allewell

avatar

Posts : 6471
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 70
Location : Cape Town South Africa

PostSubject: Re: HALLAM-PARR: new camp the 23/01 for    Sat Oct 10, 2015 11:59 am

There you go Steve.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
This is taken with my back to the foot of Mdutshane straight ahead is the Gorge, to the left on that large flat plain is the camp site. To the right look at the highest hill, just below down the cliff face is a thin rocky ledge with a tree line on the side, that Dartnells camp. To the extreme right is the beginning of the ridge that Chelmsford looked back to the camp with HHP etc. Carry on round to the left and it leads onto the upper valley where the skirmishing took place late 21st and early 22nd. Travel far enough up the valley and you get to iSiphezi and the site of the Zulu camp of the night of the 20th and also Chelmsfords breakfast spot.
Back to top Go down
rusteze

avatar

Posts : 2219
Join date : 2010-06-02

PostSubject: Re: HALLAM-PARR: new camp the 23/01 for    Sat Oct 10, 2015 12:04 pm

Ah, the old biscuit box and mealie bag defence strategy. The beauty of that approach to fortifications is that you can eat them when you've done!

Steve
Back to top Go down
90th

avatar

Posts : 9341
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 61
Location : Melbourne, Australia

PostSubject: Hallam - Parr ; New Camp 23/1/79   Sat Oct 10, 2015 12:12 pm

Hi Frank
Thanks for posting the excellent pics , much appreciated by all .
90th Very Happy Joker
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: HALLAM-PARR: new camp the 23/01 for    

Back to top Go down
 
HALLAM-PARR: new camp the 23/01 for
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 1

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM  :: GENERAL DISCUSSION AREA-
Jump to: