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 Walter higginsons statement

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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Walter higginsons statement   Thu Nov 12, 2015 1:05 pm

Interestingly

I have a copy of the original report penned by Walter Higginson from the Cape Archives.
in reading Zulu Rising and Select Documents, plus most other modern books, Higginson is quoted extensively as he was present at the discovery of the impi until the final moments above the Drift.

There are significant differences between the excepts in the books mentioned and this original document.
"We saw a large number of Zulus coming from the rocks in front of us." This has morphed from what he actually wrote: "but just as they were getting into skirmishing order about 1000 men came around the hill and engaged them."

This has particular significance in reading TMFHT in that L and Q are pretty adamant that the impi was behind a low rise. Higginson disagrees when he says they came round a hill.
Yet again
"as I came in (to camp) I met two companies of the 24th Regiment marching out to take up a position on the left of the camp and as I came up to the tents I met the remainder of the 24th and the two guns going in the same direction."

The original reads:
"When I got into camp I found three companies of the 24th Reg marching out to take up a position on the left and as I came among the tents met two more companies and two guns coming out."

So numbers change and a direction is added?

There are a lot more discrepancies but rather than get to involved in posting them can anyone let me have an original copy of TNA (PRO), WO 33/34 in No96: Statement of Lieut. Walter Higginson. 1st Battalion 3 rd Regiment Natal Native Contingent 18th February 1879.

My copy of the original is dated the 17th February 1879 from Rorkes Drift

Looking for help


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PostSubject: Re: Walter higginsons statement   Thu Nov 12, 2015 4:01 pm

Frank

Here is Higginson


Steve


Last edited by rusteze on Sun Nov 15, 2015 9:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Walter higginsons statement   Thu Nov 12, 2015 6:35 pm

Some thing weird going on in the neighbourhood Steve. That's not the same as I have, both dated the 17th at Rorkes Drift but significant differences. Can you e mail it so I can enlarge and print of?
Would be appreciated.

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PostSubject: Re: Walter higginsons statement   Thu Nov 12, 2015 7:05 pm

Have mailed it. Let me know if it arrives.
Steve
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PostSubject: Re: Walter higginsons statement   Thu Nov 12, 2015 7:21 pm

Thanks Steve
Just arrived, that's my chances of bed tonight gone.
One statement on the 17th then another on the 18th with a lot of changes made, and both statements saved.
Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmm
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PostSubject: Re: Walter higginsons statement   Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:44 am

It would appear that Walter Higginsons 'behaviour towards Trooper Barker didn't go unnoticed in that after the war he unsuccessfully applied for a number of positions and was turned down repeatedly.
Applied for position as clerk
offered to raise a regiment to serve in the Basuto wars
Applied for a police commission
Applied for position of accountant
Applies for compensation for injury sustained at Fugitves Drift
Applies for compensation for loss of greatcoat on the retreat from iSandlwana
The colonial world was a small place back then.
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littlehand

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PostSubject: Re: Walter higginsons statement   Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:03 am

"Notes for Walter HIGGINSON:
RESIDENCE:
1874 listed as living with Frederick HIGGINSON at c1Burlington Rd, Mespil, Dublin
MILITARY HISTORY
English Army List 1875
HIGGINSON Walter R, Infantry Militia - Ireland, Royal Dublin City, Queens Own Regiment, 23 June 1875.
Colonial Office List 1888
HIGGINSON Walter Robert - Formerly lieut. in the Dublin City Militia; served through Cape war of 1877-78 in the F.A.M.P.; lieut. and adj. 3rd regiment., Natal native contingent, Nov., 1878; present at the attack on ? kraal, at the battle of
Isandhlana; mentioned in the dispatches having endeavored to save the colours of the 1/24th regiment; appointed capt. 3rd troop, Natal horse; present at Ulundi, and during the siege of Pretoria (medal and clasp for 1877-8-9; assistant
inspector, G C C , Aug 1881; government secretary and superintendent of police, Gambia, Dec 1886.
NNC - Natal Native Contingent
FAMP - Frontier Armed & Mounted Police
PERSONAL PAPERS
Mrs Cloughs Boarding House
P.Maritzburg
Nov 11 1879
Sir
Having heard that there is a vacancy for a clerk in the Office of the Colonial Civil Service, I have the honor to offer myself as a candidate for the same. I was for some time a substitute clerk in the General Post Office Dublin, under my
brother-in-law Mr Blackwood Hallowes, and I acted asAdjutant of my late Regt the Dublin City Militia for nearly nine months, I also served throughout the late war asLieutenant, first in the Native Contingent, and then in Bettington's
Horse. Any reference to T Shepstone Esq? Jnr, I am sure will be found satisfactory.
Hoping you will give me this my application your most favorable consideration
I have the honor
To be Sir
your obedient Servant
Walter R Higginson[AGO Vol 1/8/24 Ref: 404A/1882]
August 5th 80
To The Colonial Secretary
Transvaal
Sir
I have just heard that a Corps is to be raised in Pretoria on the same plan as the Natal Mounted Police and having had a little experience in such matters I beg to forward you this my application for a commission and hope that you will bring it
to the favorable notice of His Excellency The Governor. I was for some time a Lieutenant in the Dublin City Militia but resigned my commission in the spring of 77 and joined the Old Colony Police I served through the whole war with them as a
Trooper. When the war was over I claimed my discharge and having some interest obtained. I then joined [Comm of] Lonsdale as Lieut and [Adjutant] of the 3rd Natal Native Regiment I was present at (and am sorry to say lost all my certificates]
the Battle of Isandhlana and the enclosed letter is a copy of one received by my mother Mrs Higginson from the Military Secretary acknowledging my services in trying to save the Queens Color of the 1/24 Regt .In March I transferred to No. 3
Troop Natal Horse under Capt Bettington and finished the war with him I recruited the whole of his troop for him, and had the command of it for a month in P.M.Burg. I beg to enclose you a copy of a letter from Capt Bettington and also a
certificate I obtained from Capt Hamilton 90th Regt in lieu of my School of Instruction certificate which I lost with my Commission, riding School and musketry ones. Hoping you will bring this my application to the favorable notice of His
Excellency The Governor
I share the honor to be, Sir, Your obedient servant, Walter Higginson [ Vol. 447, Ref.No.R3371/80]
COPY
P.M. Burg
Oct 2nd 79
Lieut Higginson has served with me for the last six months as Lieutenant of no. # Troop Natal Horse & has always performed his duties most satisfactorily he is an excellent drill in both cavalry and Infantry & while he was in Command of the
Troop in PMBurg always turned them out in good order, he also recruited the Troop. He joined my Troop when Comm Lonsdales Natives were disbanded in March 79. I consider him to be a most useful officer in every way
Claude Bettington
Capt No 3 Troop Natal Horse [ Vol. 447, Ref.No.R3371/80]
COPY
Horse Guards, War Office [S A]
Madam
I am desired by the Duke of Cambridge to acknowledge your letter of the 29 ulto regarding your son Lieut Higginson of the Natal Native Contingent who was mentioned in Colonol Glyn's despatches of the 21st Feb last (published in the London
Gazette of 4 April) as having assisted in the endeavours to save the Queens Colour of the 1st [Bt] 24th [For-] after the disaster at Isandhlana.
In compliance with your request. His Royal Highness has had the pleasure in directing me to call Lord Chelmsford's attention to the case of your son in the hope of his Lordship being enabled to advance his interest
I have the honour to be, Madam, Your obed. Servant
A [Horsford] [ Vol. 447, Ref.No.R3371/80]
COPY
Pietermaritzburg, Natal S. Africa,
21st October 1879
I certify that Lieut W Higginson of the Dublin City Militia attended the School of Instruction for Officers of the [Aux.ly ] Forces at Richmond Barracks Dublin of which Colonel H.W. palmer 90th Light Infantry was Commandant and of which I was
Adjutant in the Spring of 1874 and that he passed a most satisfactory examination both written and on Parade and received a (1st) First Class Certificate
W D Hamilton Captain, 90th Lt Infantry [ Vol. 447, Ref.No.R3371/80]
COPY
Colonial Office, Pretoria
9.9.80
Sir
I am directed by His Excellency Sir [W McLaugom ???] to acknowledge the receipt of your letter of the 5 ultimo applying for a commission in the Transvaal Police Force and to inform you that at present no vacancy exists but that your name has
been noted as a candidate and that your application will be considered whenever a suitable opportunity arises for employing you
I have .., [signed] Col. Secty [ Vol. 447, Ref.No.R3371/80]
Pretoria
16th Oct. 1880
To, The Hon. G Hudson Esq, Col. Sec., Pretoria
Sir,
I beg to acknowledge receipt of your [favor] of the 14th inst., No. 1748/80, asking me to report upon the qualifications of Mr. W R Higginson, at present employed in my office, and as to whether he speaks or writes Dutch; -and in reply to state
that, employing, Mr. Higginson, as I do, as a copying clerk, I know little or nothing of his "qualifications", but can say that he writes a very fair hand and attends regularly to whatever he as given him to do. He is fast learning the work of
the office, & if he remains with me, will soon be a valuable assistant. He unfortunately, know nothing of Dutch beyond understanding a word here & there during a conversation in that language I have the honour to be, Sir, Your obedient, [S P
Ford] [Ast. ] [ Vol. 447, Ref.No.R3371/80]
Pretoria
Oct 29th 80
To, The Colonial Secretary
Sir
Mr Ford has just informed me of your kind offer of a Clerkship for myself in the Colonial Office, but as he has lately told me he is likely to raise my salary, I think it would be more to my advantage to continue at the Law. I must beg
therefore to refuse your offer, thanking you very much for your kindness in thinking of me
I have the honour to be, Sir, Your obedient servant, Walter Robert Higginson [Vol. 481, Ref.No.R4620/80]
COMMENTS FROM OTHERS
1. Michael Berning, for Cory Librarian, Sally Poole
It seems from your message that Higginson must have come to the Cape about 1876 and left South Africa around 1881 to move to the Gambia.Such a short stay in this country makes it difficult to find any information on him and such as there is
likely to be in the National Archives (more below).
He seems to have moved about present South Africa in a variety of forms of military service:The FAMP (Frontier Armed and Mounted Police) was a paramilitary body operating in the Cape Colony and Higginsn seems to have taken part in the last of
the wars on the Eastern Cape frontier (1877-78), then moved to taking part in the Anglo-Zulu War of 1879 serving in the Natal Native contingent and the Natal Horse and then serving in what has traditionally been called the First Boer War.It
is a little puzzIing why he changed unit so often - though the Boer War service may also have been with the Natal Horse.
It would seem that Higginson was in search of more permanent employment:in 1879 he applied for a vacancy as a Clerk in the Natal Colonial Service (papers in the Natal Archives), in 1880 offered to raise a corps in the event of a Basuto War
breaking out (papers in Natal Archives) and in 1881 submitted a memorial requesting a commission in the Cape Corps (papers in Cape Archives).I think this probably refers to the Cape Mounted Riflemen, the military unit into which the FAMP was
transformed in 1878, as the term 'Cape Corps' was often used to refer to the CMR. I would guess that it might have been a failure to succeed in this request that lead Higginson to move to the Gambia.
Unless he returned to South Africa later it is unlikely that it will be possible to locate the date of his death from local sources and I would suggest that records in the Gambia or of the British Colonial Service might be the best bet.
It is possible that military records might give clues to his age and parentage.I would suggest approaching local archives for advice on where the service records of the FAMP/CMR, Natal Native Contingent etc can be found - if such exist.
2. Gordon Angus MACKINLAY. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Lt Higginson, Frontier Armed and Mounted Police, 3rd Regiment, Natal Native Contingent. MORRIS Donald R.The Washing of the Spears : A History of the Zulu Nation under Shaka and Its Fall in the Zulu War of 1879.Jonathan Cape, London, 1966.
This mentions Walter on pages, 357, 360, 385-386.He also receives mention in a number of other works. There is quite a few people who have the FAMP and the NNC as their spheres of interest. I'm in Sydney, Tel 9891-1716.Will see about
getting copies for the pages for you.
3. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Valerie was very interested to find you especially as you are researching the same place at the same time. My Walter most probably worked for your Ingram. I think Ingram was not in Gambia in 1886
There is a book "The History of Gambia" by J M Gray it would be worth checking your public library for it.
4. Heather Vallance [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
All imperial military documents are kept in the UK - even when the person has fought or been assigned to SA. I would suggest that Walter's personal details will be housed in his military file at the PRO - or you could try the actual regiment
museum/archive. Our records for the period you are after are really scant, but we have no enrolment files here at all, only registers of drill attendance etc.
5. Dr Adrian Greaves. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I will make further enquiries and get back to you. I am sorry that there has been a delay - the reason is simply that we have not yet got an answer for you. My researcher has put out a number of enquiries and we are still hoping to get a
positive response.
6. Gordon, [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].
Isandhlana was a disaster for the army."

Source:genealogy.com

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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Walter higginsons statement   Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:45 am

The Frederick Higginson he lived with later applied to the colonial administrator for a list of officers from the 2nd NNC killed or injured in the AZW. One he seemed to be searching for was a Captain AH Worthington.
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PostSubject: Re: Walter higginsons statement   Fri Nov 13, 2015 12:21 pm

I'm starting to think, Higginson got quite a rough deal over his actions at Isandlwana. ?
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PostSubject: Re: Walter higginsons statement   Fri Nov 13, 2015 12:40 pm

I don't think he was ever forgiven for leaving M and C and then dumping Barker. My grand children refer to that sort of think as a "Brain fart".
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PostSubject: Re: Walter higginsons statement   Fri Nov 13, 2015 12:41 pm

A court martial was not possible: he was a colonial Officer and not an Imperial Officer.
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PostSubject: Re: Walter higginsons statement   Fri Nov 13, 2015 1:18 pm

Still a very good account of Isandlwana
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PostSubject: Re: Walter higginsons statement   Fri Nov 13, 2015 3:57 pm

So it appears, that the men on top of Isandlwana, send news via a native that the Zulus were retiring. It was Higginson who reported it to Durnford.

Durnford replied "Is that so, well then we shall follow them.
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PostSubject: Re: Walter higginsons statement   Fri Nov 13, 2015 8:22 pm

What was Higginson wearing? The account I read stated that a man in civilian clothing stated the Zulu's were retiring?
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PostSubject: Re: Walter higginsons statement   Sat Nov 14, 2015 6:25 am

Morning Dave
Civilian dress I would imagine, there was no real uniform for the NNC so jacket trousers and probably a slouch hat. That would fit your description.

Cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Walter higginsons statement   Sun Nov 15, 2015 11:59 am

So can we safely say, based on Higginson's  account, that it was the information he received and gave to Durnford, that led Durnford to leave the camp. "The Zulu's are retiring."
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PostSubject: Re: Walter higginsons statement   Sun Nov 15, 2015 12:51 pm

"So can we safely say, based on Higginson's account, that it was the information he received and gave to Durnford, that ULTIMATLY led Durnford to leave the camp. "The Zulu's are retiring"
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PostSubject: Re: Walter higginsons statement   Sun Nov 15, 2015 1:38 pm

All we can safely say is that Higginson recorded a conversation which, if true, would help to explain why Durnford ultimately left the camp. I think we always need to remember that we only have part of the picture; we cannot know what else may have been said and Durnford was not around to explain afterwards. It is easy to assume that what we know is a reflection of everything that happened. It is just our best guess based on a number of testimonies.

Steve
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PostSubject: Re: Walter higginsons statement   Sun Nov 15, 2015 4:44 pm

Steve if we can't count on eyewitness evidence, and keep putting obstacles in the way. The Battle of Isandlwana will become a never ending story.
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PostSubject: Re: Walter higginsons statement   Sun Nov 15, 2015 6:02 pm

Even with eyewitness statements you need to look for corroborating evidence. If you cannot find any then it is wise to remain open minded.  I think the fact that we are still arguing about Isandhlwana 136 years later demonstrates that it has indeed become a never ending story. That is surely the attraction.

Steve
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PostSubject: Re: Walter higginsons statement   Sun Nov 15, 2015 6:45 pm

But if there is no corroborating evidence, what then the account is dismissed?
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PostSubject: Re: Walter higginsons statement   Sun Nov 15, 2015 7:23 pm

What I said was keep an open mind, nothing to do with dismissing anything.

Steve
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PostSubject: Re: Walter higginsons statement   Sun Nov 15, 2015 8:14 pm

Then that would go for just about every account there is.

We know that a man I civilian clothing delivered a message to Durford to say that the Zulus were retiring. Frank gave a rough idea of what Higginson would have been wearing, which could have been taken as civilian clothing. Frank then posts Higginson's account where he states it was he would delivered the message.
The only corroboration we have on this is the account which mentions a man in civilian clothing.
Those men on top of Isandlwana would have had a commanding view of the battlefield and would have seen the Zulus retiring, if that's what they were doing.

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PostSubject: Re: Walter higginsons statement   Sun Nov 15, 2015 9:51 pm

Read pages 180/181 of L&Q's "Zulu Victory" for a slightly different account of Higginson's actions. May be right, may be wrong - as I say, keep an open mind.

Steve
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PostSubject: Re: Walter higginsons statement   Mon Nov 16, 2015 7:07 am

We tend to use the word 'conjecture' very often on the forum. In terms of pages 180 and 181 I would add 'outrageous' to that.
We seem to have a time compression instance, according to them when Higginson was watching the Zulus on the plateau with Vereker and Barry the Carbineers and NMP had already been exchanging fire for two hours??????? As Durnford arrived when Higginson was up on the hill and his estimated arrival has been put at 10.30 that would mean that according to L and Q a battle had been going on since 8.30? To risk a pun Im missing a few hours.
Again Higginsons second man returned after an hour on the hill ( Higginsons original statement.) not very shortly
A huge leap of conjecture from that scouts words that the Zulu had gone, his statement clearly says the Zulus were retreating, in other words still visible but moving away.

C'mon Steve are you really giving credence to such statements of 'Outrageous Conjecture.' ?

Cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Walter higginsons statement   Mon Nov 16, 2015 11:45 am

Hi Frank

What I said was "may be right, may be wrong". In this context I am not really interested in the question of time compression, but I do find the comment about the time it would take to ascend to the top of Isandhlwana, what was visible from that elevation, how high the second scout could have got, and how long was spent observing before descending and reporting, gives pause for thought. I would put L&Q at the more serious end of AZW authors (as I think would you) - not infallible of course - but with valuable insights. I agree conjecture, but I don't think I would label it as outrageous.  Don't forget we were discussing LH's question about the cause of Durnford leaving the camp, you said Higginson's report was a contribution to him ultimately leaving. I think that's right, but I read into what L&Q said that it may have been a pretty thin piece of intelligence on which to base that decision. Just part of the jigsaw of cause and effect.

Steve
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PostSubject: Re: Walter higginsons statement   Mon Nov 16, 2015 12:06 pm

Greetings Steve
I meant really to take that whole page into context with their description of the fighting relative to the men on the mountain. Nothing really pans out hence my thoughts they were just throwing stuff together. Incidently for anyone wanting to clear the top of the tents with a view its a couple of meter climb.
In terms of climbing to the top, taking the northern route around 20 minutes for a fit guy. That's what it once took me, these days measured in days.
Im pretty sure the phrase 'they are retreating' was the final push to get him to leave the camp. Possible this could reflect well in his favour as he potentially waited to make sure there was no threat to the camp before leaving.

Cheers

Cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Walter higginsons statement   Mon Nov 16, 2015 12:16 pm

Sometimes L&Q's enthusiasm runs away with them! Durnford was always going to leave, he said as much (and we suspect there were orders we don't know about that encouraged him) so he did not need much to trigger his exit in hot pursuit.

PS I have a vision of you, goat like, bounding up the sheer face of Isandhlwana.
Steve
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PostSubject: Re: Walter higginsons statement   Mon Nov 16, 2015 12:33 pm

Possible more of a Flashman quote of "hanging by fingernails, guts belching into the wind with loud prayers accompanied by the castinet rhythm of knees knocking."
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PostSubject: Re: Walter higginsons statement   Mon Nov 16, 2015 12:36 pm

Actually a few years back the route was very easy but with the passage of time and many feet causing erosion its become very difficult. Last time I was up there was when we were filming, around 4 years back. Now the route up is closed and climbing prohibited. There was once a notice banning walkers from the back of the mountain and Shepstones Grave but that was pulled up and chucked into the bushes, I wont mention by who.
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old historian2

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PostSubject: Re: Walter higginsons statement   Mon Nov 16, 2015 9:36 pm

I think Durnford's reply is a bit concerning. When you  consider perviously he stated, "when we see Zulus we should attack them."

Steve what corroboration are you looking for. Is there any accounts that contradicts Higginson's account.

Question to Frank, Julian and John Young.

Regarding Higginson's account.

Higginson mentions by name certain officers he spoke to including Durnford. Is there anyway to confirm that Higginson was in the right place at the right time to speak to these officers.?
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rusteze

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PostSubject: Re: Walter higginsons statement   Mon Nov 16, 2015 10:50 pm

OH2

I don't have a particular problem with Higginson and I don't know of an account that contradicts him. The point I was making was a general one when it comes to eyewitness accounts. They are not automatically accurate just because they are eyewitness accounts and any good historian will look for corroborating evidence. Otherwise, form a judgement by all means but keep an open mind because something else might turn up. For example, everyone believed Crealock's evidence that he ordered Durnford up to defend the camp until the actual orders were found later and they said no such thing.

Steve
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Ray63

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PostSubject: Re: Walter higginsons statement   Mon Nov 16, 2015 11:04 pm

A bit off topic, but i can never get my head around, the issue with Crealock stating he had told Durnford to take command of the Camp. We now know he didn't. The issue I have is Durnford did take command. So what is the problem?
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ymob

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PostSubject: Re: Walter higginsons statement   Mon Nov 16, 2015 11:11 pm

I am sure that Steve has the answer to this question.
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Ray63

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PostSubject: Re: Walter higginsons statement   Mon Nov 16, 2015 11:19 pm

Thank god for that.

I understand there was some sort of protocol for senior officers, but no one as ever come up with that protocol.
so I guess we are down to seeing is believing.

But if that was the case, why would Crealock have ordered him to the command, if that was already the protocol? What weight would that have added to the COE. How would that have blackened Durnford's name? Durnford was just carrying out traditional protocols, wasn't he.
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ymob

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PostSubject: Re: Walter higginsons statement   Mon Nov 16, 2015 11:23 pm

Steve
Do you sleep?
Please, "keep an open eye". Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
Cheers. Salute
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rusteze

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PostSubject: Re: Walter higginsons statement   Tue Nov 17, 2015 12:50 am

Ray

Please don't think I am being rude, but the question about Durnford taking command has been covered in great detail a number of times and I cannot add anything to what has been said before. I am sure you will find it if you trawl through any of the " Durnford was he capable" threads.

If necessary, Frederic is the expert and only needs three hours sleep each night
Shocked
Regards
Steve
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Ray63

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PostSubject: Re: Walter higginsons statement   Tue Nov 17, 2015 4:11 am

I don't think your being rude at all.
However I do not need to trawl the threads. The question has been asked many times by other members, and the answer is normally the protocol back then. But no one have ever shown that protocol. So my question still still stands. If you don't know the answer then please say so, or at least post a link to the post you say exists.
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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Walter higginsons statement   Tue Nov 17, 2015 6:00 am

Hi Ray
Military protocol operates the same way as any company or organisation ( except the Labour Party ) in that it works on a top down pyramid. The topmost layer controls all below whilst a middle level row controls all below and answers to all above. In that respect Durnford was senior to Pulleine and would have, when he arrived, been offered command of the camp. That in the normal course of events. There is testimony from Cochrane et al that procedure was followed. Durnford elected not to take control as he had every intention of leaving, by order or design is debatable.
Even so, without taking control, he was senior officer present hence when Higginson came down of the plateau with his report he was directed to give it to Durnford. Other instances where Durnford 'pulled rank' would be when Barry's NNC were ordered to accompany Raw and Roberts, and quite possibly sending Cavaye onto the plateau. Further to that issue when the two Carbineers approached him with a warning in the Quabe valley he ordered them to get Scott to reinforce him telling the two he was senior to Pulleine and really should be obeyed.
So yes Durnford issued orders ( as did Chelmsford to Glyns command) but that doesnt mean he took command of the camp.
Much the same as when my wife comes into my office and craps out the cleaners without telling me how to run the business itself.

Hope that makes sense.

Frank
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rusteze

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PostSubject: Re: Walter higginsons statement   Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:14 am

Ray

I suggest you do a subject search for "Queen's Regulations". You will find a copy which you can download for free and in it, under command and precedence, you will find the protocols of who commands who in the British Army and in what circumstances. As I said, it has all been discussed before.

Steve
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impi

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PostSubject: Re: Walter higginsons statement   Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:19 pm

rusteze wrote:
Ray

I suggest you do a subject search for "Queen's Regulations". You will find a copy which you can download for free and in it, under command and precedence, you will find the protocols of who commands who in the British Army and in what circumstances.  As I said, it has all been discussed before.

Steve

Steve can you post a link!
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Ray63

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PostSubject: Re: Walter higginsons statement   Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:19 pm

I typed in what was suggested. Nothing apparent.
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90th

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PostSubject: Walter Higginson statement    Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:02 am

Hi Frank
I got back yesterday from a week at Isandlwana Lodge from a tour orgainised by Paul Marias , and which Ian Knight accompanied , there was no mention about not being allowed to climb the mountain , when I was there in May I also saw several
people on top of the mountain . We would've climbed it last week but due to running out of time we didn't get to do it ! .
I also went to Shepstone's last year .
90th
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PostSubject: Re: Walter higginsons statement   Wed Nov 18, 2015 5:27 am

Greetings Gary
As I said the notice forbidding walking the back of the mountain and climbing was chucked into the bush. Think Ive got a photo of the area with that notice in the foreground need to do some digging.
Hope it was a good trip, did you see anything you missed last time?

Cheers
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90th

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PostSubject: Walter Higginson statement    Wed Nov 18, 2015 5:43 am

Hi Frank
Yes , quite a lot actually .
90th Very Happy
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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Walter higginsons statement   Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:37 am

Looking forward to hearing all about it.

Cheers
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Julian Whybra



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PostSubject: Re: Walter higginsons statement   Tue Nov 24, 2015 12:10 pm

I've hurt my wrists and cut my hand and typing is a bit difficuklt so apologies because I'm not going to correct my mistyping.
Rsusteze makes a fair point re non-corroborated testimony.
Everyone would like to be able to find clear definitive answers to all the problems of Isandhwlana and the two Higginson stataements seem to provide some clear indicators of events , some of which can't be corrobraoted.
Standard procedure is that it's acceptable to make conjectures based on uncorroborated information especially where they seem to provide a sensible linkage between cause and effect or two contiguous events PROVIDED it is stated that the information cannot be corrovborated (yet).
Higginson covered his tracks over the Barker business for which he had good reason (if not to lie) to omit part of his story.  That does not mean that he would have any reason not to tell the truth in the rest of his statements.   Trying to recall a month later the precise background circumstances of when he first sighted the Zulus would, even for a trained military man, not be easy.  (Try it!)  You all saw momentary TV pictures of the horrors of Bataclan last week (sorry Frederic!); see if you can reconstruct the shape of the building and the appearance of its front and then try to put it into words. Both statements were written just under a month after the battle within a day of each other for two differenet persons.  to be honest I don't see any huge differences between the two accounts which need raise questions over veracity.  In one he expands a little on a statement in the other.  In his mind there's confusion over exactly what he came across when.  I think we all expect too much of men like Higginson.
Neither can we assume that Higginson WAs the civiialian from whom Durnford received a message.  Frank is right in that SOME NNC officers would have worn civilian clothes but it's also true to say that some had unifroms - we absolutely do not know what Higginson was wearing.
I'm not taking sides but with Isandhlwana an open mind really is essential (until proven otherwise).  There are too many pitfalls.
Onc emore apologies for standard of typing.


Last edited by Julian Whybra on Thu Nov 26, 2015 8:50 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Walter higginsons statement   Tue Nov 24, 2015 4:13 pm

You have my sympathy Mr Whybra, I'm still recovering from a motorcycle crash, I have a shattered Collar bone, broke both my legs and busted a finger on my left hand. I hope you heal quicker than I have. I wish that I had mentioned that I wouldn't correct my typing, I could have saved myself a lot of time.
Wishing you a speedy recovery
Waterloo.
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Julian Whybra



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PostSubject: Re: Walter higginsons statement   Tue Nov 24, 2015 4:58 pm

Waterloo
Thanks. My injuries bear no comparison to yours. Thankfully the x-rays say neither wrist is broken but they are very bruised stiff and sore. I return the sympathies!!
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Chard1879

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PostSubject: Re: Walter higginsons statement   Wed Nov 25, 2015 9:01 am

Why would Higginson state he gave the News to Durnford that the Zulus were retiring if he didn't, what could he have hoped to achieve. ?
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