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 Possible N.N.C. photograph?

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John Young

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PostSubject: Possible N.N.C. photograph?   Sat Feb 20, 2016 5:34 pm

I picked this one up with a number of other South African photographs yesterday, they seem to range from 1870's to the 1890's, mainly full plate in size.

This one annotated 'Ready for the fight'.

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John Young Collection.

I'm assuming the photograph was taken in PMB.  The Zulu in the photograph are well armed with both spears and 'kerries.

Given the size of most of the shields in the photograph, I wonder if they might be disaffected Zulu possibly N.N.C.

Has anyone seen this photograph before?  Or can anyone assist further?

Thanks in anticipation.

John Y.
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littlehand

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PostSubject: Re: Possible N.N.C. photograph?   Sat Feb 20, 2016 6:36 pm

Never seen the photo before, but it's the first I have seen with one with the full size shields.
Really nice photo John!

If it was the NCC, would the photographer have not Insisted on the wearing of the Red band? Just to be accurate.
Is there a date or anything to signify the date.
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John Young

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PostSubject: Re: Possible N.N.C. photograph?   Sat Feb 20, 2016 7:26 pm

Littlehand,

If you look at the guy standing on left he does appear to be wearing a material/cloth headband around his forehead.

I suppose it is possible they could be part of a town guard, rather than N.N.C., I do know that some 'natives' were assigned to assist in the protection of some buildings in PMB.

Sadly the album is undated but judging by the contents it appears to have been compiled from the 1870's to the 1890's, which is borne out by the style of photographs varying from albumen prints such as this one and glossy prints which was first used in 1890's.

John Y.

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PostSubject: Re: Possible N.N.C. photograph?   Sat Feb 20, 2016 9:02 pm

Could be, there's a couple with the traditional headings. Do we know what regiments the shields represent?
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barry

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PostSubject: Picture of armed Zulus   Sun Feb 21, 2016 5:04 pm

Hi John,
A nice picture.  Composed and lit quite well for the time. I have not seen this one before.
I would speculate that the men pictured are loyal Zulus armed with their iWisa's and mKontos,  signing up for action.
The Mchunu was one such tribe that opposed their countrymen in the war. ( see my recent post on the " first battle of the Zulu War")  The warrior in the picture  with the isiccoco is probably an induna.  The ages of this group vary, maybe supporting  somewhat this speculation. The alternative is that they were part of a town guard . I do not however  think that these were NNC men
The new building in the background is interesting with its very tall double  windows topped with  fanlights and square metal  downpipes for  channeling storm water off the roof.  I thought it could have been the Legislative Assembly building in the capital but my reference works on colonial architecture has no match. However the style of the structure does suggest a Govt  building.


regards

barry
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John Young

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PostSubject: Re: Possible N.N.C. photograph?   Sun Feb 21, 2016 5:29 pm

Thanks Barry,

I tend to agree with you that they are part of a town guard.

I might do wild card search on KCL, or whatever it is now called, to see if the image turns up.

Thanks,

John Y

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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Possible N.N.C. photograph?   Wed Feb 24, 2016 5:10 am

Hi John
I have a gut feeling this is the old court house at Ladysmith. Just a thought.

Cheers
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John Young

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PostSubject: Re: Possible N.N.C. photograph?   Wed Feb 24, 2016 7:54 am

Frank,

Thanks for the tip.

Any idea how far the courthouse was from the church where the field hospital l was? Only I have photograph of the that area in 1879.

All the best,

John Y.
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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Possible N.N.C. photograph?   Wed Feb 24, 2016 9:36 am

John
Im not to sure if the hospital location was in the Murchison street church, if it was that about 200 metre to the South West.
The Courthouse was hit by cannon fire and extensively damaged, the present tower was rebuilt.
Just down the road is a brass plaque that marks the spot a shell landed and didn't explode. The hotel is very close that was used by White ( Last time I stayed there Im damn sure I had his sheets that hadn't been washed since !)

Cheers
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rusteze

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PostSubject: Re: Possible N.N.C. photograph?   Wed Feb 24, 2016 12:22 pm

Did you mean Courthouse or Town Hall? Heres a photo of the damaged Town Hall.
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Steve
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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Possible N.N.C. photograph?   Wed Feb 24, 2016 1:11 pm

Hi Steve
It went by both names I believe but yes that is the one.
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John Young

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PostSubject: Re: Possible N.N.C. photograph?   Wed Feb 24, 2016 2:45 pm

Frank,

I'll check when I finish work tonight, but if it is the Town Hall that makes the photograph post-1884.

In haste,

John Y.
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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Possible N.N.C. photograph?   Wed Feb 24, 2016 8:24 pm

John
Ive been going through the library, over 400 photos of Durban and PMB and nothing that ties up with your photo.
Still looking.
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PostSubject: Re: Possible N.N.C. photograph?   Wed Feb 24, 2016 9:19 pm

Frank,

Much appreciated.

I'll dig out my 1879 Ladysmith photograph and post after I had the chance to put my feet up!

John Y.
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PostSubject: Re: Possible N.N.C. photograph?   Thu Feb 25, 2016 5:35 am

Hi John,

It has since occurred to me that the building in the background, behind the Zulu warriors, may have been the newly rebuilt Pietermaritzburg townhall etc , after it was razed in a catastrophic fire. This may account too for us being unable to easily find a match for the photo.

regards

barry
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PostSubject: Re: Possible N.N.C. photograph?   Thu Feb 25, 2016 5:45 am

Hi John/Barry
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
This the photographic data base Ive been searching. So far Ive gone through around 600 photos without success.
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barry

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PostSubject: NNC / Town guard ?   Thu Feb 25, 2016 6:30 pm

Hi Frank,

Thanks for that link to a very useful comprehensive photographic data base.
What makes matching more difficult however is that there are many more buildings today than there were at the time of the AZW. However,I have not given up on this one just yet.

regards

barry
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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Possible N.N.C. photograph?   Fri Feb 26, 2016 5:11 am

Morning Barry
Its been a very usefull site to visit, takes a lot of time to get through it all in particular all the blogs.

Cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Possible N.N.C. photograph?   Wed Mar 02, 2016 2:40 pm

Not adding much i'm afraid..but the style of the window's
do seem uncommon.

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PostSubject: Re: Possible N.N.C. photograph?   Wed Mar 02, 2016 3:00 pm

Not sure this helps at all in identifying the photo but is this not a second "ghost" head appearing?

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Steve
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PostSubject: Re: Possible N.N.C. photograph?   Fri Mar 04, 2016 1:48 pm

Frank,

Better late than never here is the town of Ladysmith in 1879.

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John Young Collection.

John Y.
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PostSubject: Re: Possible N.N.C. photograph?   Fri Mar 04, 2016 2:37 pm

Hi John
Ive been meaning to post the town plan from that period.
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PostSubject: Re: Possible N.N.C. photograph?   Fri Mar 04, 2016 2:39 pm

If I had to hazard a guess I would put the vantage point from Kings post area down towards Whites HQ.

Cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Possible N.N.C. photograph?   Fri Mar 04, 2016 4:06 pm

Frank,

It appears to have grown somewhat in the twenty years between the photograph and the town plan.

I'll run it by a mate of mine who gets up to that neck of the woods, and see if he agrees with you.

By-the-way I saw your name in print today.

Cheers,

John Y.
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PostSubject: Re: Possible N.N.C. photograph?   Fri Mar 04, 2016 4:22 pm

Wanted poster?
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John Young

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PostSubject: Re: Possible N.N.C. photograph?   Fri Mar 04, 2016 4:53 pm

Frank,

You'll have to wait to find out...

John Y.
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PostSubject: Re: Possible N.N.C. photograph?   Fri Mar 04, 2016 5:40 pm

Ah of course !
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barry

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PostSubject: Some pictures   Fri Mar 04, 2016 8:14 pm

Hi All,

Some interesting pictures, ie the Town hall in Pmbg and Ladysmith town center, 1879.  Thanks for posting.

Interestingly, as is it is topical on the forum at present, the Pmbg shot shows life in the fast lane in the capital where two Boer type ox wagons are passing each other,..... slowly. The teams of  long horned draft oxen are the hardy Afrikander breed. Those who lived there at the turn of the century in the capital said that anyone going to town on a Saturday morning  should be prepared to be splattered copiously ,..... with the proverbial. Much to the chagrin of the ladies of course. Such was the volume  of non motorised traffic in the capital, even then.

The Ladysmith town shot depicts the town in 1879, with the Dutch Church in Murchison St  prominent in centre picture. The Boer community kindly gave it up in the AZW, to be used as a British military hospital. It has tents in the front of it and these were used as  hospital overflow, and covalescent wards. The Klip River can be seen meandering away in the background.
The shot appears to be taken from a high point in the direction of Gun Hill. The All Saints Church  which clock tower was damaged in the Boer war  with a direct hit with a shell fired from the Long Tom on Umbulwana was only built in 1882, some 3 years after this shot was taken.  It was also in Murchison St , and these two churches were a block apart with only 410m separating them. All Saints would have been visible in the bottom left of the picture.

regards

barry
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