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 Civil Surgeon Cartwright Reed

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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Civil Surgeon Cartwright Reed   Wed Mar 16, 2016 6:54 am

Cartwright Read was attached to Durnfords column as Senior Medical Officer. He would I assume have had a medical staff of a minimum of 3 plus ambulance and field hospital. I cant seem to locate his involvement, location or fate. Any help?
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PostSubject: Civil Surgeon Cartwright Reed    Wed Mar 16, 2016 9:08 am

In ' The Rorke's Drift Doctor ' by Lee Stevenson under the heading ' Civil Practitioner there is your man Frank , Cartwright.S.Reed ( Natal ) Served during operations against the Zulu 1879 ; Served as SMO with Durnford's Column ; In Herschel , Cape , c.1895 ; SA 1879.
90th You need to study mo
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PostSubject: Re: Civil Surgeon Cartwright Reed   Wed Mar 16, 2016 10:09 am

That's him Gary, just cant find out what happened to him when Durnford rode of to iSandlwana. He didn't die there and hes not on any survivors list. Hes not on the RD list either. If he was left behind with one of Durnfords spin ofs then Durnford was traveling into battle, potentialy, with no medical back up. Thats rather strange?
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PostSubject: Civil Surgeon Cartwright Reed    Wed Mar 16, 2016 10:22 am

Probably no stranger than leaving his remaining men behind with no medical help Shocked , at least where he was going he had all of No 3 Columns medical staff , of which , could be made readily available I expect .
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PostSubject: Re: Civil Surgeon Cartwright Reed   Wed Mar 16, 2016 10:23 am

Fair comment agree
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PostSubject: Civil Surgeon Cartwright Reed    Wed Mar 16, 2016 10:24 am

Salute
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PostSubject: Re: Civil Surgeon Cartwright Reed   Wed Mar 16, 2016 10:33 am

Frank,

I would make an educated guess and say Dr. Reed remained with the bulk of No. 2 Column under H. M. Bengough's command.

What need of medical support at Rorke's Drift, when there was a base hospital there with the requisite staff.

John Y.
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PostSubject: Re: Civil Surgeon Cartwright Reed   Wed Mar 16, 2016 11:31 am

Morning John
I would agree, there seems no other place he would be. As you say there was no need for him as there was a base hospital at RD, however as a what if, if Durnford HAD being ordered to act against Matshana as an independent force he could have been in a certain amount of trouble without a medical force available. When the force split that was Durnfords brief.
Living dangerously?
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PostSubject: Re: Civil Surgeon Cartwright Reed   Wed Mar 16, 2016 12:04 pm

Frank,

I believe if No. 2 Column had been ordered as a whole to operate against Matshana, then Durnford would have had his full supporting arms to accompany his column.

However, he and part of No. 2 Column were expected to co-operate with No. 3 Column, as per Chelmsford's order of 19th January 1879: ...I shall want you to cooperate against the Matyanas but will send you fresh instructions on this subject.*

*= text taken from The Road to Isandlwana. However, Lord Chelmsford's Zululand Campaign 1878-1879 has it as ...to operate.

John Y.
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PostSubject: Re: Civil Surgeon Cartwright Reed   Thu Mar 17, 2016 5:25 am

Two questions:
As a civil surgeon did he qualify for a medal
If so is there any delimination on that medal between entering Zulu land or not.

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PostSubject: Civil Surgeon Cartwright Reed    Thu Mar 17, 2016 7:38 am

Hi Frank
In my post yesterday re Civil Surgeon Reed taken from Lee Stevenson's ' The RD Doctor ' It's mentioned at the end of the post .. (SA 1879) , this means he was entitled to the South African General Service Medal with 1879 Clasp . So to answer your question yes , and as its stated he was entitled to the 1879 Clasp , if you crossed the river , as you are aware , you were entitled to the clasp . Salute
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PostSubject: Re: Civil Surgeon Cartwright Reed   Thu Mar 17, 2016 7:51 am

Ah thanks Gary, JY had the idea that he had stayed behind with Bengough, if that was the case he wouldn't have qualified for the clasp. hence my enquiry about the medal. Therefore 2 +2 equalling 7 he didn't stay behind, excepting there is the possibility of him transferring to the invasion column for the second invasion. problem with that is I cant find mention of him doing that.
Any thoughts?
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PostSubject: Civil Surgeon Cartwright Reed    Thu Mar 17, 2016 8:00 am

Hi Frank
For him to be entitled to the Clasp he had to have crossed the Border , I've also searched in vain , I went through the ' Diary of Civil Surgeon Lewis.W.Reynolds ' , 80 Pages !!! , saw many other names , unfortunately none of them were Reed , although , I may've missed it ! Shocked Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes .
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PostSubject: Re: Civil Surgeon Cartwright Reed   Thu Mar 17, 2016 8:09 am

Some more info on the good doctor.
in 1878 he was District Surgeon in upper Umkomanzi.
on 16/10/1879 he applied for a government position and was stationed in Howick as a "coolie" ( these days that is a highly insulting name for a South African Indian. I have used the term in its historical context) doctor.
He resigned and was appointed as medical Officer to Willoughby's Horse in 1880.
I have the gap between 1878 and late 79.
Any help would be of use.

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PostSubject: Re: Civil Surgeon Cartwright Reed   Thu Mar 17, 2016 8:46 am

Frank,

This business of 'crossing the border' is - in my opinion - a load of old tosh, and I mean no disrespect to 90th by saying that, as I know what is written on the provisos for the issue of the bar.

Defenders of Rorke's Drift did not cross the Buffalo, did they receive the clasp 1879?  Yes.

Carbutt's Rangers did cross the Buffalo and reconnoitred Isandlwana, did the receive the clasp?  No.

If we do use the premise of crossing the border who can say that Dr. Reed, who can say that he did not accompany any of the cross border raids post-22nd January 1879?  Unless you've found something Frank...

I'll look to see if I have anything further here after I'm back from the Doctor's surgery.

John Y.
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PostSubject: Re: Civil Surgeon Cartwright Reed   Thu Mar 17, 2016 8:54 am

Hi John
Im not a fundi on medals hence my request for that particular info. It does give a pointer however to lines of research. There is interestingly that gap in knowledge of the movements of Dr Reed hence my own interest in tracking down, not to prove any mythical points, just downright doggedness.
I would anticipate Gary's response by saying the RD defenders were involved in the war, significantly, Carbutts Rangers not so much, in fact virtually nothing. I think the concept of 'crossing the border' is more a euphemism for active service.

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PostSubject: Re: Civil Surgeon Cartwright Reed   Thu Mar 17, 2016 9:03 am

Frank,

In haste.

See District Order No. 9, dated 26th April 1879.

...9. Civil Surgeon Reed will proceed, without delay, with one non-commissioned officer and seven men, the Army Hospital Corps, and half the native bearer company, to join No. 1 division.

John Y.
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PostSubject: Re: Civil Surgeon Cartwright Reed   Thu Mar 17, 2016 9:08 am

Frank,

Just saw your last as I posted, no it is no euphemism it is what provisions of issue state:
Those troops employed in Natal from the 11th January to the 1st September 1879, but who never crossed the border into Zululand, will be granted the medal without the clasp.

John Y.
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PostSubject: Re: Civil Surgeon Cartwright Reed   Thu Mar 17, 2016 9:35 am

Hi John
I just found the Local Order as well. What is really interesting about the order is the Native bearer company. I thought that company was only available after Ulundi had been fought? That issue is presently being discussed on a different string.
Still say it was employed as a euphemism, alternately maybe we should lodge an objection with that 'accursed welsh regiment' and have the SAGS recalled. Very Happy agree
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PostSubject: Re: Civil Surgeon Cartwright Reed   Thu Mar 17, 2016 9:43 am

Re the above post.
Ive taken the liberty of attacking 90ths post.

Found this in ' Medical History Of The War In Zululand 1879 '
Ashanti Cots ; Considering the rough and rugged nature of the country for the most part over which the troos were operating , it was advisable to have a supply of Ashanti Cots in which to carry the seriously sick and wounded ; 8 Cots were therefore attached to each column in addition to stretchers , For the purpose of carrying the Ashanti Cots , and for removing the wounded from the scene of action to the front dressing station , a corps of Native Bearers was established numbering 160 , making one company and a half with 16 men as reserve for casualties ; a company consisting of 96 Natives with 16 of the AHC , and half a company being attached to each column . It was only after the Battle of Ulundi , which virtually terminated the Zulu war , that a Bearer company of the AHC arrived in Natal .

Or is the AHC defined as separate to the Native Bearer Company?
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PostSubject: Civil Surgeon Cartwright Reed    Thu Mar 17, 2016 10:07 am

Frank , I read it to mean that the AHC Company that arrived was from the UK or elsewhere ? , so yes , different to the Native Bearer Companies ? . I should say , at least I thought I did , the report I posted was written by Surgeon General Woolfryes' , who was actually in charge from memory of all things medical in Sth Africa , and of coarse he was present during the Campaign . I went through the Narrative of field ops , re the 1st Divis , didn't see Reed's name mentioned No . Not to sure where else we'll find anything scratch You need to study mo , I'm thinking if anyone may have a detailed account , it might be Lee Stevenson , it might be worth dropping him a pm , I still think he comes on here , but I'm thinking not often ? .
Did you see Gayle ? , it's his second decent inns of the year , probably wont make another score ! .
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PostSubject: Re: Civil Surgeon Cartwright Reed   Thu Mar 17, 2016 10:28 am

Hi Gary
Its a bit confusing from Woolfryes, he does say 96 Natives that's what lead me to think of the Native Bearer Company. I checked the Narrative as well so obviously Reed was junior to those named Surgeons and didn't merit a mention. But its nice to have him fleshed out a bit and to see he deserved his 'bar'.
Now we have just got to decide if B Company should have got a bar to their SAGS ( Not crossing the border, or did they? Koppie Allein?
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PostSubject: Civil Surgeon Cartwright Reed    Thu Mar 17, 2016 10:49 am

In your reply to JY you hit the nail on the head , B Co , or those that fought at RD , were entitled to the Bar because they took part in a battle , it would've , I think , been the same for anyone else who took part in an action but hadn't crossed the Border , one would assume they also would've been entitled to the bar , if Helpmekaar had been attacked for example , or some other similar like place , I'd be pretty sure they would've been entitled to the Bar also . Hope that makes sense scratch
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PostSubject: Civil Surgeon Cartwright Reed    Thu Mar 17, 2016 12:05 pm

Frank I read a little more and quite possibly the AHC Co were Natives , following from where it states '' that a Bearer Company of the AHC arrived in Natal . This Bearer company , however , was afterwards employed in the Secocoeni ( as spelt ) Campaign , when it did excellent service ''. To me it reads as it was a Native Co .
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PostSubject: Re: Civil Surgeon Cartwright Reed   Thu Mar 17, 2016 12:44 pm

I think the answer to the awarding of the 1879 bar is that the entitlement says "engaged against the Zulus". So everyone who crosses into Zululand is included, but so are those who engage with the enemy forces (like the RD defenders). Only four Civil Practitioners were awarded the bar (Reed, Smith, Gunn and Glanville). While some 32 Civil Surgeons got it. So Reed was a GP and not a Surgeon.

Steve
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PostSubject: Re: Civil Surgeon Cartwright Reed   Thu Mar 17, 2016 2:44 pm

So then you phone a friend..............
CARTWRIGHT-REED Samuel. Addmitted to the Royal College of Surgeon’s 15.7.59. MD. Medical Officer, West London Union, Fleet Street 1864. Lieutenant, 40th Middlesex Rifle Volunteers Corps. Captain 7.2.68. Surgeon, 19th Middlesex Rifle Volunteer Corpa 12.4.73. Services dispenced with 28.7.75. Madras, India c1877. District Surgeon in Natal. On 26.11.78 from Richmond he resigned as the District Surgeon as he stated he was joining the ‘Native Auxilliary Forces’. Civil Surgeon and Senior Medical Officer, 1st Natal Native Contingent 22.12.78. Anglo-Zulu War, 1879. Resided No31a Spital-road, Malden, Essex. Died 17.11.1932 leaving an estate of £2582 8s.10d.

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PostSubject: Re: Civil Surgeon Cartwright Reed   Thu Mar 17, 2016 3:45 pm

Frank,

That should be Maldon, Essex. It is about a half-an-hour drive from me on the Blackwater Estuary.

When I up to driving again I'll take a punt over there and make some enquires at the local history museum, it is feasible he is buried there.

John Y.
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PostSubject: Civil Surgeon Cartwright Reed    Thu Mar 17, 2016 9:14 pm

Hi Frank
A '' GOOD '' friend to have in your contacts ! LOLLLLLL.

JY
That would be excellent , hopefully you can find more on him , one way or the other .
90th Very Happy Salute
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PostSubject: Re: Civil Surgeon Cartwright Reed   Thu Mar 17, 2016 9:23 pm

"Narrative of the Field Operations Connected with the Zulu War of 1879" on loan from the library. This is a facsimile reproduction of the report originally published in 1881, prepared in the Intelligence Branch of the Quartermaster-General's Department, Horse Guards, War Office. (1989, Greenhill Books, London; ISBN 1-85367-041-3).

There is an Appendix from which I've extracted the names of medical officers, since there seemed to be some previous interest from members re medical personnel. It is transcribed as written and notes in square brackets [ ] are mine.

-------------
COMPOSITION OF COLUMNS AND DISTRIBUTION OF TROOPS ON 11 JANUARY, 1879
Head-quarter Staff:
Principal Medical Officer, Deputy Surgeon-General WOODFRYES, C.B., M.D.
[*]

No. 1 Column; Staff:
Senior Medical Officer, Surgeon-Major TARRANT

No. 2 Column; Staff:
Senior Medical Officer, Civil Surgeon CARTWRIGHT REED

No. 3 Column; Staff:
Senior Medical Officer, Surgeon-Major SHEPHERD

No. 4 Column, Staff:
Senior Medical Officer, Surgeon-Major CUFFE

No. 5 Column, Staff:
Senior Medical Officer, Surgeon-Major JOHNSON

LINE OF COMMUNICATIONS:
Greytown-Helpmakaar; Staff:
Senior Medical Officer, Surgeon-Major INGHAM

Base of Operations, Durban; Staff:
Senior Medical Officer, Surgeon JENNINGS


STATE OF SOUTH AFRICAN FIELD FORCE, END OF MAY, 1879
[Headquarters]:
Principal Medical Officer: Surgeon-General WOOLFRYES, C.B.
[*]
Surgeon attached to Headquarters Staff: Surgeon-Major SCOTT
Chief Staff Veterinary Surgeon: Inspecting Veterinary Surgeon, T.P. GUDGIN

[*]

1st Division:
Principal Medical Officer, Surgeon-Major T. TARRANT

2nd Division:
Principal Medical Officer, Surgeon-Major A. SEMPLE

Brigadier-General Wood's Flying Column:
Principal Medical Officer, Surge-Major CUFFE

Staff Officers of Lines of Communication and Base:
Senior Medical Officer at base, Surgeon-Major WILLS, Durban
Principal Veterinary Surgeon, Inspecting Veterinary Surgeon, T.P. GUDGIN
Principal Medical Officer, Deputy Surgeon-General HOLLOWAY, Pietermaritzburg


DISTRIBUTION OF THE TROOPS AND STAFF IN SOUTH AFRICA, 26th JULY, 1879

General Staff:
Principal Medical Officer, Surgeon-General WOOLFRYES, C.B., M.D.
Inspecting Veterinary Surgeon, Inspecting Veterinary Surgeon T. P. GUDGIN

Clarke's Column:
Senior Medical Officer, Surgeon-Major GIRAUD, M.D.

Baker Russell's Column:
Senior Medical Officer, Surgeon-Major CUFFE

[End of medical staff list.]
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PostSubject: Re: Civil Surgeon Cartwright Reed   Thu Mar 17, 2016 9:56 pm

If the Senior Medical Officer, Civil Surgeon CARTWRIGHT REED wasn't with Durnford at Isandlwana, who took his place, or did Durnford go without a medical officer.
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PostSubject: Civil Surgeon Cartwright Reed    Thu Mar 17, 2016 10:06 pm

Chard if you read the earlier posts you'll see this was mentioned , Why would Durnford need to take a medical officer when he was going to RD , and , or , with LC , where they had plenty of medical staff which he could utilize ? ! , it made more sense to leave him behind . as they were in the middle of nowhere , with minimal medical support !
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PostSubject: Re: Civil Surgeon Cartwright Reed   Thu Mar 17, 2016 10:50 pm

But Durnford was an independent column, when he was ordered to move to Isandlwana, surly reed should have gone with him.
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PostSubject: Civil Surgeon Cartwright Reed    Fri Mar 18, 2016 2:23 am

Chard , Durnford's men that were left behind certainly needed some medical support , so Reed stays , being an independent column is fine , he went to RD , Surgeon Reynolds and his men were already there , he certainly didn't need Reed ! , don't forget Durnford didn't know if he would be leaving RD , so , again , why bring Reed when Reynolds etc are at RD ????? . Same applies when Durnford is summoned to Isandlwana , Surgeon Shepherd , and many others are there in attendance , I'm certain if Durnford needed a Medical officer , he could quite easily have seconded one from the camp .
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PostSubject: Re: Civil Surgeon Cartwright Reed   Fri Mar 18, 2016 5:51 am

Can one draw an inference here that Durnford decided he didn't need a medical staff because he would be 'joining' the 3rd column?
Sorry Chard I don't know if this was where you were heading, if so then I share the same concern.
90th
I need to do some more digging, I have a niggle that tells me there was an assistant to Reed, a Lt something or other, any ideas?

Cheers
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PostSubject: Civil Surgeon Cartwright Reed    Fri Mar 18, 2016 5:56 am

Hi Frank
Sorry Frank I don't know the Medical Strength of Durnford's Column , I would imagine Reed wouldn't have been the only Medical person for that Column , although , I doubt he would've had many anyway ? .
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PostSubject: Re: Civil Surgeon Cartwright Reed   Fri Mar 18, 2016 6:45 am

Ive just been looking at the regs, he had a medical field station plus a minimum of 1 possibly 2 ambulances. That's the problem with having so many bloody sources theres a lot more to read. Remember the good old days when we only had the big silver book and that was the bible? If it wasn't in there it didn't happen. Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Civil Surgeon Cartwright Reed   Fri Mar 18, 2016 7:10 am

Frank,

That a look at those General Orders again, I sure that there was a Hospital Sergeant appointment in relation to Durnford's column. Off the top of my head I think his name was Portal.

John Y.
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PostSubject: Re: Civil Surgeon Cartwright Reed   Fri Mar 18, 2016 7:13 am

Busy wading through them now john.
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PostSubject: Re: Civil Surgeon Cartwright Reed   Fri Mar 18, 2016 8:32 am

Frank Allewell wrote:
Can one draw an inference here that Durnford decided he didn't need a medical staff because he would be 'joining' the 3rd column?
Sorry Chard I don't know if this was where you were heading, if so then I share the same concern.
90th
I need to do some more digging, I have a niggle that tells me there was an assistant to Reed, a Lt something or other, any ideas?

Cheers

Yes I was going where you are.
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PostSubject: Re: Civil Surgeon Cartwright Reed   Fri Mar 18, 2016 8:38 am

Sorry mate didn't mean to stamp on your toes. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Civil Surgeon Cartwright Reed   Fri Mar 18, 2016 10:23 am

JY
There was a Lt Portel (misspelt as Portal in orders ) he resigned 19th Feb but was a hospital dresser.

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littlehand

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PostSubject: Re: Civil Surgeon Cartwright Reed   Mon Mar 21, 2016 12:00 pm

Frank, there is very little on Cartwright Read which makes him more intriguing.
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PostSubject: Re: Civil Surgeon Cartwright Reed   Mon Mar 21, 2016 1:45 pm

LH
International man of mystery. I am managing to put a few more bits and pieces together.
The whole medical issue of Durnfords Column is bit of a puzzle, but what else do we expect from iSandlwana?
JY is of the opinion that Durnford didn't need a medical team because he was of to RD and then iSandlwana and they already had established teams. Doesn't really fit to well for me because when Durnford was ordered to RD he didn't have to much of a clue where he would be heading, in conjunction with Chelmsford or not. If not and he maintained his independence his medical support could have been miles away.
Its a conundrum and I believe there is more to it. A touch of 'Pink Floyd' creeping in.

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PostSubject: Re: Civil Surgeon Cartwright Reed   Mon Mar 21, 2016 2:57 pm

Frank,

Durnford's part of No. 2 Column was comprised of four Europeans on his Staff; ten Europeans of the Rocket Battery; six European officers & two hundred and sixty Africans of the Native Horse & sixteen Europeans and approximately two hundred and fifty Africans in the Natal Native Contingent.  And there's the rub in my opinion, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.  There are more Europeans in No. Column remaining elsewhere than there are with Durnford.

After all this was Natal in 1879, and who cared whether or not five hundred or so loyal African troops had a doctor with them or not.  The possible person who did care a jot for the Africans was commanding this mini column, and I am sure there must have been a traditional healer or two amongst the part column.

Somewhere here I have got The Management of Natives booklet, I will try it and find if it reveals anything on the subject.

Just my opinion based on my own assumptions.

John Y.
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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Civil Surgeon Cartwright Reed   Mon Mar 21, 2016 4:25 pm

Hi John
I do appreciate your point, BUT, fact still remains that he would have been in a mass of trouble isolated from his medics. Not just the care for the wounded but the number of men it would take to look after the wounded.
I have some nagging thoughts, I alluded to them earlier, there could very well be a reason he was confident enough to proceed without a field hospital.

Will be interesting to explore your booklet, just hope its a tad different to HF Verwoerds. Shocked

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PostSubject: Re: Civil Surgeon Cartwright Reed   Mon Mar 21, 2016 4:50 pm

Frank,

I hope so it was written with Durnford's collaboration!

If we consider the NNC already at Isandlwana they only had a Surgeon and a Hospital Sergeant - Dr. Frank Buee & Sgt. Cane - to look after a much larger force of men than that commanded by Durnford.

John Y.
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PostSubject: Re: Civil Surgeon Cartwright Reed   Tue Mar 22, 2016 5:40 am

Hi John
But again using your prievious point, they were part of a larger force with a field hospital in attendance. Even as limited as Buee and Cane were in numbers there was still a presence. There is no real evidence to say that Durnford was a bad man management leader ( ignore the 22nd).
The search goes on.
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PostSubject: Re: Civil Surgeon Cartwright Reed   Tue Mar 22, 2016 7:43 am

Frank,

I think you are missing my point. An entire regiment of NNC, albeit divided by Mangeni and Isandlwana, and only two medical personnel assigned to it.

Chelmsford's sub-division of No. 3 Column only has one known doctor with it Dr. J. G. Thrupp, as it is unclear whether Surgeon Ash is accompanying No. 1 Squadron, Mounted Infantry.

Are you are endeavouring to put Dr. Reed at Isandlwana?

John Y.
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PostSubject: Re: Civil Surgeon Cartwright Reed   Tue Mar 22, 2016 7:56 am

Hi John
No definitely not.

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PostSubject: Re: Civil Surgeon Cartwright Reed   Tue Mar 22, 2016 11:30 am

How do we know Reed wasn't at Isandlwana? The records of KIA have margins for error!
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