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 80th Regiment of Foot (Staffordshire Volunteers) Tunic

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Airborne77

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PostSubject: 80th Regiment of Foot (Staffordshire Volunteers) Tunic   Thu Aug 04, 2016 4:26 pm

Hi Gents

This is my 1st post on this forum and I am glad to have found it. I have always been interested in the Zulu War and luckily I live in the right country to travel the battlefields.

My 1st question is, please could someone tell me if there is a link on this forum that shows an original 80th Regiment of Foot Zulu War tunic? I have been offered one but I have no idea if authentic or not so I need plenty of research before buying anything.

Thanks
Shaun
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PostSubject: Re: 80th Regiment of Foot (Staffordshire Volunteers) Tunic   Thu Aug 04, 2016 7:15 pm

Hiya and welcome airborn77, here is an image i magpied off the net..
i cannot give copywrite in this instance..apology's to the artist.
cheers xhosa

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John Young

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PostSubject: Re: 80th Regiment of Foot (Staffordshire Volunteers) Tunic   Thu Aug 04, 2016 8:09 pm

Shaun,

Just to clarify have you been offered an 1874 pattern other-ranks tunic, or an other-ranks frock?

The reproduction frock that Les has included above seems to be a mixture of pre-1874 and post-1874 frock.

John Y.
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PostSubject: Re: 80th Regiment of Foot (Staffordshire Volunteers) Tunic   Thu Aug 04, 2016 9:31 pm

Hi John

It is a frock. I will get some quality photos of it this weekend and will post here.

Thanks
Shaun
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John Young

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PostSubject: Re: 80th Regiment of Foot (Staffordshire Volunteers) Tunic   Thu Aug 04, 2016 11:02 pm

Shaun,

I will look forward to seeing the photographs.

Regards,

John Y.
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PostSubject: Re: 80th Regiment of Foot (Staffordshire Volunteers) Tunic   Sat Aug 06, 2016 3:13 pm

Hi John

Herewith the pics more to follow.

Regards
Shaun

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PostSubject: Re: 80th Regiment of Foot (Staffordshire Volunteers) Tunic   Sat Aug 06, 2016 3:21 pm

.
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PostSubject: Re: 80th Regiment of Foot (Staffordshire Volunteers) Tunic   Sat Aug 06, 2016 3:33 pm

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PostSubject: Re: 80th Regiment of Foot (Staffordshire Volunteers) Tunic   Sat Aug 06, 2016 3:46 pm

Final Pics

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PostSubject: Re: 80th Regiment of Foot (Staffordshire Volunteers) Tunic   Sat Aug 06, 2016 6:19 pm

Shaun,

That a seven-button tunic, rather than a frock which was less ornate and only had five buttons.

What is it that ties it to the 80th (Staffordshire Volunteers, do you have some provenance?

Only the 80th were not the only regiment to wear yellow facings.

The following line infantry regiments also wore yellow prior to 1881:
9th; 10th; 12th; 15th; 16th; 20th; 26th; 28th; 29th; 30th; 34th; 37th; 38th; 44th; 46th; 57th; 67th; 77th; 82nd; 83rd; 84th; 88th; 95th; 96th and 99th.

I have discounted yellow-faced Highland regiments.

The 57th, 88th and 99th also served in the Zulu War of 1879.

The tunic would have originally been supplied void of any facing colours, which would have been added by the regimental tailor.

Can I suggest that you look on lining of the sleeves for any stamped markings.

Very example of a pre-1881 tunic!

John Y.

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PostSubject: Re: 80th Regiment of Foot (Staffordshire Volunteers) Tunic   Sat Aug 06, 2016 6:39 pm

Hi John

Gees ok that is a wealth of knowledge. I just assumed that it was 80th because I came across some zulu war pics with the yellow facings and it belonged to the 80th. I had no idea that so many other regiments had yellow facings. Please bear with my I have a lot to learn. There is no provenance to this tunic.

I don't have the Tunic with me so I will ask the owner to take a look and see if their are any stamped markings on the sleeve.

I am keen to find out if this is original to that period. It would be a great way to start off a collection.

Thanks
Shaun

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PostSubject: Re: 80th Regiment of Foot (Staffordshire Volunteers) Tunic   Sun Aug 07, 2016 9:55 am

Looks like it never had collar dogs fitted - pity as they tend to leave an imprint of years of wear and dirt etc which would have given a potential hint as to which regiment - nice example I know which collars I would be putting up on it if it was offered to me - atb Tim
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PostSubject: Re: 80th Regiment of Foot (Staffordshire Volunteers) Tunic   Sun Aug 07, 2016 1:29 pm

Tim,

Those collars wouldn't happen to have the word Albuhera on them by any chance, would they?

John Y.
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PostSubject: Re: 80th Regiment of Foot (Staffordshire Volunteers) Tunic   Sun Aug 07, 2016 5:56 pm

Enough said John - atb Tim
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PostSubject: Re: 80th Regiment of Foot (Staffordshire Volunteers) Tunic   Mon Aug 08, 2016 10:29 am

Hi John

Herewith the lining of the sleeve. It seems it might have been cut out. There is no other marking on the other sleeve.

Regards
Shaun

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PostSubject: Re: 80th Regiment of Foot (Staffordshire Volunteers) Tunic   Mon Aug 08, 2016 12:07 pm

Shaun,

Odd all the places that would give you further information have been removed or obscured.

It makes me wonder why it is too good... It is throwing up a suspicion of doubt in my mind.

John Y.
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PostSubject: 80th Regt Tunic   Mon Aug 08, 2016 12:22 pm

Must say I agree with JY , strange that any stamps or markings that could certainly authenticate are missing ! , very strange , it does look ok but ....... Not sure I'd be parting with a lot of money to be honest .
90th
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PostSubject: Re: 80th Regiment of Foot (Staffordshire Volunteers) Tunic   Mon Aug 08, 2016 12:24 pm

Does the repetitive number 105 have any significance?
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PostSubject: 80th Regt Tunic   Mon Aug 08, 2016 12:42 pm

Hi Frank
If by some small chance it's an individuals regimental number , which I doubt , it looks like 015 to me , I don't know of any Regimental numbers beginning with 0 , it may well have been 815 at some stage ???? , I checked the 80th Regt Roll and didn't find anyone issued with the Regimental Number of 815 , as I said , I doubt it's an individuals regimental number in any case , as to its significance , I cant say Frank .
Cheers Mate
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PostSubject: Re: 80th Regiment of Foot (Staffordshire Volunteers) Tunic   Mon Aug 08, 2016 1:27 pm

I bought the tunic at a very reasonable price. I posted somewhere else and the replies were positive so definitely can't miss out on it. I will look for other markings once I have it in hand.
Thank you for the help this is my 2nd acquistion to my Zulu war collection.

Two of the other replies.

"The wear of collar and cuff edges together with those on the facings look right. I notice that the short leather tab is missing at the left inside collar, but that does not detract. Instinct says a good acquistion and is is not pretending to be something that it is not. If it were faked, then surely the 'faker' might use green facings to cash in on the 24th rather than yellow? My thoughts - be satisfied"

I also think that the other issue to consider is regimental identity (if that is important to you). However, I agree with Ian on price. No matter the regiment this type of tunic is exceedingly rare!!
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PostSubject: Re: 80th Regiment of Foot (Staffordshire Volunteers) Tunic   Tue Aug 09, 2016 2:38 pm

Hi John

I picked up the tunic today. It seems the seller that photographed the sleeve linings got the wrong brief!!LOL

I turned the tunic inside out and no markings on the sleeve but they really do show a lot of wear which you might not be able to see through the cell phone photographs, but after handling this tunic and really looking at it I have no doubt it is period, both cut outs of the sleeve lining are at the top of the arm.

The seller said that he had two phone calls this morning asking to buy this tunic which I find pretty interesting!!LOL

Regards
Shaun

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PostSubject: Re: 80th Regiment of Foot (Staffordshire Volunteers) Tunic   Tue Aug 09, 2016 10:18 pm

Shaun,

I'm glad you are happy with the tunic.

The sceptic in me still has doubts.

All the information that would have been on the lining has been removed or obscured by spreading the stamped ink. That leads me to ask why?

I used to own a tunic which had been altered to appear to be an 1874 Pattern tunic. The upper sleeve lining was stamped 'Property of the Aldershot Tattoo'. I had no issue with that.

John Y.
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PostSubject: Re: 80th Regiment of Foot (Staffordshire Volunteers) Tunic   Wed Aug 10, 2016 12:32 am

Just for interest, here are some Aldershot Tattoo programmes for 1929, 1932, 1933 and 1937. I have them all from 1925 to 1939 and was lucky enough to see the last Tattoos held at the Rushmoor Arena in the 1980's. Hundreds of troops in period uniforms enacting battle scenes.

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Steve
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PostSubject: Re: 80th Regiment of Foot (Staffordshire Volunteers) Tunic   Wed Aug 10, 2016 7:57 am

John - like you seen quite a few "converted" things in my time  - my patch patrol from the 1880's is a converted / recut 1904 Westminster Dragoons jacket I did myself  and I have several modern tunics retro fitted to pre 1914 - the uniform removal of exact same patches from both sleeves would concern me - and some of the advice given elsewhere on the internet from "experts" is as good as their advice on other things - as I said to the buyer depends how much you want an item as to whether it is worth it to you. Still a nice thing either way.
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PostSubject: Re: 80th Regiment of Foot (Staffordshire Volunteers) Tunic   Wed Aug 10, 2016 9:12 am

Although it has 2 patches removed from the sleeve for whatever reason may cause doubt for some, but if you have this item in hand you can see the age and wear is there for what I would expect it to look like for that period.I am not saying I have huge experience in collecting tunics especially Zulu War but I do own quite a few worn WW1 and WW2 tunics and non show anywhere the age or wear that this tunic has. Gut feel says it is good and I guess that is all that matters.

I am glad to have found this forum and look forward to further research into the Zulu War. I have already learnt quite a bit over these last 2 weeks.

Just out of interest sake this is what someone else had to say about the tunic,

I would say it's an original pre-1881 Home Service tunic. The GS QVC buttons are correct for Other Ranks.
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