WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM

Film Zulu Dawn: Lt. Melvill: You didn't really have to choose between your country and the Zulu, did you? Lt. William Vereker: Um, and a damn close thing it was too.
 
HomeHome  CalendarCalendar  GalleryGallery  PublicationsPublications  FAQFAQ  SearchSearch  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  
Latest topics
Largest private Anglo-Zulu War collection on auction
Search
 
 

Display results as :
 
Rechercher Advanced Search
Top posters
90th
 
littlehand
 
Frank Allewell
 
ADMIN
 
Chelmsfordthescapegoat
 
John
 
Mr M. Cooper
 
1879graves
 
impi
 
rusteze
 
Fair Use Notice
Fair use notice. This website may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorised by the copyright owner. We are making such material and images are available in our efforts to advance the understanding of the “Anglo Zulu War of 1879. For educational & recreational purposes. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material, as provided for in UK copyright law. The information is purely for educational and research purposes only. No profit is made from any part of this website. If you hold the copyright on any material on the site, or material refers to you, and you would like it to be removed, please let us know and we will work with you to reach a resolution.
Top posting users this month
1879graves
 
ADMIN
 
John Young
 
90th
 
xhosa2000
 
rusteze
 
SRB1965
 
Frank Allewell
 
Tim Needham
 
applebygypsy
 
Most active topics
Isandlwana, Last Stands
Durnford was he capable.5
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Durnford was he capable. 4
Durnford was he capable.1
Durnford was he capable.2
Durnford was he capable. 3
The ammunition question
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
The missing five hours.

Share | 
 

 Fugitives' Drift: a little help needed

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : 1, 2, 3  Next
AuthorMessage
Julian Whybra



Posts : 1801
Join date : 2011-09-12

PostSubject: Fugitives' Drift: a little help needed   Thu Sep 08, 2016 11:25 am

A question which one of the 'boks on the forum might be able to answer for me.

I have come across an undated Isandhlwana survivor's account in which Fugitives' Drift is mentioned twice. I'm trying to establish the parameters in which it could have been written, one of which is the use of certain terminologies.

So does anyone know when Fugitives' Drift acquired its name? It wasn't immediately after the battle (1879-80) and it might even have been several years afterwards. It would though be helpful to know two things - when it was first referred to as such in print (papers, letters, maps, reports, etc.) and when it achieved common colloquial usage. The former will be easier to pin down than the latter.

As a by the by it would be interesting to know who named it or was it by common local consent?

Any assistance will be acknowledged in print, of course, because I really have no idea what the answer will be nor whom to ask to be sure of getting an accurate answer. Please be sure to supply any sources quoted.
Back to top Go down
Frank Allewell

avatar

Posts : 6353
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 70
Location : Cape Town South Africa

PostSubject: Re: Fugitives' Drift: a little help needed   Thu Sep 08, 2016 12:11 pm

Julian
Pre 1882 according to Mitford, Chapter IV "One morning I started from Isandhlwana to 'Fugitives Drift', as it is now called................
Hopefully I can isolate further.
Back to top Go down
xhosa2000

avatar

Posts : 804
Join date : 2015-11-24

PostSubject: Re: Fugitives' Drift: a little help needed   Thu Sep 08, 2016 12:14 pm

Bit of an ask that Julian, the fugitives ran down to the drift!, where did the
fugitives end up..down at the drift. the two sort of go together..pinning the
expression down will i fear be a hard task, but i will certainly dig around
for you..expect lots of theorys.
Back to top Go down
Julian Whybra



Posts : 1801
Join date : 2011-09-12

PostSubject: Re: Fugitives' Drift: a little help needed   Thu Sep 08, 2016 12:22 pm

Frank
Mitford published in 1882 but he went to SA in 1874 and was back in England living in Cheltenham in 1881.  He must have done his Zululand travels possibly late 1880 and early 1881 such that he could write: "as it is now called".
Xhosa
Yes I know it's a 'big ask', but it's the sort of thing someone might just know on the off-chance. Frank's Mitford would seem to place its naming fairly soon after the battle.
It might easily have ended up as Survivors' Drift, Escapees' Drift, or Desperation/Salvation Drift. Fugitives is actually quite a specific appellation that might just be traceable.
Back to top Go down
Frank Allewell

avatar

Posts : 6353
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 70
Location : Cape Town South Africa

PostSubject: Re: Fugitives' Drift: a little help needed   Thu Sep 08, 2016 12:28 pm

Charlie Harfords Zulu War Journal. Chapter 4
" This gave special interest to our patrol work in the direction of Fugitives Drift".
From Daphne Child: Although the manuscript is undated it is assumed that Harford wrote an account of his Zulu War experiences during or just after the campaign of 1879. and that he copied the narrative into the notebook......................... many years later, possible 1920.
Back to top Go down
Frank Allewell

avatar

Posts : 6353
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 70
Location : Cape Town South Africa

PostSubject: Re: Fugitives' Drift: a little help needed   Thu Sep 08, 2016 12:29 pm

There was also a mention, again I think by Harford of 'The Fugitives Crossing'
Back to top Go down
Julian Whybra



Posts : 1801
Join date : 2011-09-12

PostSubject: Re: Fugitives' Drift: a little help needed   Thu Sep 08, 2016 12:33 pm

Frank
Yes, I considered Harford but he may well have 'annotated' the account in 1920 so it would be intelligible to readers.  I need to check this with a few other sources though.  There is a typescript in the KCAL which I must dig out which might be dated or the museum may have dated its accession.

I'll check whether its the 'fugitives' crossing' or the 'Fugitives' Crossing'.
Back to top Go down
Frank Allewell

avatar

Posts : 6353
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 70
Location : Cape Town South Africa

PostSubject: Re: Fugitives' Drift: a little help needed   Thu Sep 08, 2016 12:42 pm

In various editions of the London Illustrated dated from March 9th there are mentions of the 'Fugitives' retreat and path. So that part of the description was in use that soon after. in similar dated issues the crossing is described as a Drift. Would not much to put the two together.
Cannon Lumis seems to have cribbed from Morris.
Back to top Go down
Julian Whybra



Posts : 1801
Join date : 2011-09-12

PostSubject: Re: Fugitives' Drift: a little help needed   Thu Sep 08, 2016 12:44 pm

Just checked the KCAL Harford typescript and there is no mention of Fugitives' Drift or Crossing.
Back to top Go down
Frank Allewell

avatar

Posts : 6353
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 70
Location : Cape Town South Africa

PostSubject: Re: Fugitives' Drift: a little help needed   Thu Sep 08, 2016 1:05 pm

I cant locate any mention, as yet, in the Red Book either.
Back to top Go down
ymob

avatar

Posts : 1909
Join date : 2010-10-22
Location : france

PostSubject: Re: Fugitives' Drift: a little help needed   Thu Sep 08, 2016 1:55 pm

"Landsman's Drift, May13
Spies report the presence of four Zulu impis the eastern angle of Cetewayo's country. One is now behind Isandula, designated to cross into Natal at Fugitive Drift, near Rorke's Drift".
Possibly a telegram from the "Daily News".
Cheers
Back to top Go down
http://frbomy@hotmail.fr
Frank Allewell

avatar

Posts : 6353
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 70
Location : Cape Town South Africa

PostSubject: Re: Fugitives' Drift: a little help needed   Thu Sep 08, 2016 2:07 pm

May 19th Mr Phil Robinson, special correspondant of the Daily Telegraph, writing from Rorkes Drift, says: I have just returned from the battlefield of iSandlwana. We returned by the fugitives drift and were fired at by the Zulus at several points on the way. No impi in sight. Colonel Black found Major Smiths Body.
Note fugitives drift in lower case.

Cheers
Back to top Go down
ymob

avatar

Posts : 1909
Join date : 2010-10-22
Location : france

PostSubject: Re: Fugitives' Drift: a little help needed   Thu Sep 08, 2016 2:09 pm

ymob wrote:
"Landsman's Drift, May13
Spies report the presence of four Zulu impis the eastern angle of Cetewayo's country. One is now behind Isandula, designated to cross into Natal at Fugitive Drift, near Rorke's Drift".
Possibly a telegram from the "Daily News".
Cheers

I confirm the source, a correspondant of the Daily News.
Che
Back to top Go down
http://frbomy@hotmail.fr
Julian Whybra



Posts : 1801
Join date : 2011-09-12

PostSubject: Re: Fugitives' Drift: a little help needed   Thu Sep 08, 2016 2:12 pm

Wow, excellent result, 13th May 1879. I wonder how soon it passed into common local parlance. Pretty soon I imagine.
All right, many thanks Fred and Frank, that's nailed that one.
Back to top Go down
90th

avatar

Posts : 9219
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 61
Location : Melbourne, Australia

PostSubject: Re: Fugitives' Drift: a little help needed   Thu Sep 08, 2016 3:51 pm

I've found Archibald Forbes mentions it by name in his report from the expedition on the 21st May , this report is in ' The War Correspondents ; The Anglo Zulu War ' by Laband & Knight , it's on pge 102 . I'm thinking that Forbes worked for the Daily News , it may well have been him to who Frederic refers , for his source as a correspondent for the Daily News ?
90th scratch
Back to top Go down
Julian Whybra



Posts : 1801
Join date : 2011-09-12

PostSubject: Re: Fugitives' Drift: a little help needed   Thu Sep 08, 2016 4:08 pm

90th
Out of interest and since you have it in front of you, does he write Fugitive Drift or Fugitives' Drift?
It would be interesting if it were indeed Forbes who'd promoted the usage - an early example of the media driving public interest by creating a name deliberately designed to have impact and heighten emotion (like Ground Zero).
Back to top Go down
90th

avatar

Posts : 9219
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 61
Location : Melbourne, Australia

PostSubject: Fugitives ' Drift ; A little help needed .    Thu Sep 08, 2016 4:17 pm

And I quote ... The Line of retreat towards Fugitives' Drift
90th
Back to top Go down
Julian Whybra



Posts : 1801
Join date : 2011-09-12

PostSubject: Re: Fugitives' Drift: a little help needed   Thu Sep 08, 2016 5:45 pm

Excellent!
Thanks.
Back to top Go down
90th

avatar

Posts : 9219
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 61
Location : Melbourne, Australia

PostSubject: Fugitives ' Drift ; A little help needed .    Thu Sep 08, 2016 5:50 pm

Very Happy
90th
Back to top Go down
ymob

avatar

Posts : 1909
Join date : 2010-10-22
Location : france

PostSubject: Re: Fugitives' Drift: a little help needed   Thu Sep 08, 2016 8:51 pm

Gary, all,
In the newspaper, there are several telegrams "from the correspondentS of the Daily News".
So, I am not sure that Forbes was the author, it's only possible (the report was written at Landsman's Drift).
In the extract, it's fugitive drift not fugitives' drift or fugitive's drift.

But the newspaper quoted is a reprint....

Cheers
Back to top Go down
http://frbomy@hotmail.fr
rusteze

avatar

Posts : 2137
Join date : 2010-06-02

PostSubject: Re: Fugitives' Drift: a little help needed   Thu Sep 08, 2016 9:20 pm

This is an 1879 map by Wyld (post 22 January). The drift below Rorke's Drift appears to be shown as Nomavovo Drift. Is that Fugitives' Drift do you think?
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Steve
Back to top Go down
Julian Whybra



Posts : 1801
Join date : 2011-09-12

PostSubject: Re: Fugitives' Drift: a little help needed   Thu Sep 08, 2016 10:25 pm

I have NEVER heard of Nomavovo Drift. Frank, have you???
Back to top Go down
Kenny



Posts : 282
Join date : 2013-05-07
Location : Brecon

PostSubject: Re: Fugitives' Drift: a little help needed   Thu Sep 08, 2016 11:55 pm

Julian

You have certainly set a challenge here.

I note that Lts Anstey/Penrose map (dated 13th Nov 1879) reproduced on inside the back cover of DRs Soldier Artist in Zululand makes no mention of fugitives drift (nor Nomavovo Drift) - although there is reference to the 'direction taken by fugitives'.  Also PSymons sketch map - reproduced as the frontispiece of NHs The Noble 24th does mention the 'fugitives path' but the map stops short and does not therefore include the crossing point.

However the campaign map in Mac & Shad published in 1880 - reproduced either inside cover of The Noble 24th or as Plate 95 (page 105) of Soldier Artist does mention 'fugitives drift'.

Landman's (or Landmaris or Landtman's) Drift is the crossing point near Dundee where 1/24th crossed on their way to Koppie Allein on 17th May 1879 (i.e. during 2nd invasion). See Plate 96 (page 106) in Soldier Artist for sketch.  2/24th were to mount a guard here to protect the crossing point.
Back to top Go down
Online
ADMIN

avatar

Posts : 3550
Join date : 2008-11-01
Age : 58
Location : KENT

PostSubject: Re: Fugitives' Drift: a little help needed   Fri Sep 09, 2016 12:13 am

Click on this link
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Once open scroll down and look for The Story of the Zulu's . There's a mention of a "Ford called Nomavovo's

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Back to top Go down
http://www.1879zuluwar.com
rusteze

avatar

Posts : 2137
Join date : 2010-06-02

PostSubject: Re: Fugitives' Drift: a little help needed   Fri Sep 09, 2016 12:46 am

This is an Intelligence Branch QMG's Dept map of Bartle Frere's Boundary commission results (chaired by AWD) December 1878. Here looks more like "Nomavoyo" Drift. The Wyld map may well be be a derivative of this official map.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Steve
Back to top Go down
barry

avatar

Posts : 817
Join date : 2011-10-21
Location : Kempton Park, Z.A.

PostSubject: Fugitives Drift   Fri Sep 09, 2016 5:22 am

Try Sothondosi's. I think the name change only came about post 22/01/1879

barry


Last edited by barry on Sun Sep 25, 2016 11:25 am; edited 2 times in total
Back to top Go down
Frank Allewell

avatar

Posts : 6353
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 70
Location : Cape Town South Africa

PostSubject: Re: Fugitives' Drift: a little help needed   Fri Sep 09, 2016 6:57 am

Nomavoyo is/was a drift a tad lower down than Rorkes Drift but not as low as Sothondo, As I mention a few days ago from the North was Robsons, Rorkes, Nomavoyo, Sothondos, and Elandskraal.
Nomavoyo was the traditional crossing long before Rorkes Drift was established. It is also traditionally where Mehlokazulu killed MaMtshali, his mother. History around this point Is pretty much oral so I could easily be out by a few miles. This is what Ive always understood though.
Sorry guys cant help much more than that.

Cheers
Back to top Go down
Julian Whybra



Posts : 1801
Join date : 2011-09-12

PostSubject: Re: Fugitives' Drift: a little help needed   Fri Sep 09, 2016 8:40 am

On closer inspection Wyld's map actually says Nomavoyo not Nomavovo. The 'y' has faded a little but the tail is clearly visible.
Back to top Go down
Frank Allewell

avatar

Posts : 6353
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 70
Location : Cape Town South Africa

PostSubject: Re: Fugitives' Drift: a little help needed   Fri Sep 09, 2016 9:36 am

Pretty sure that Moodie refers to it as well, but also around the May time.
Back to top Go down
rusteze

avatar

Posts : 2137
Join date : 2010-06-02

PostSubject: Re: Fugitives' Drift: a little help needed   Fri Sep 09, 2016 11:22 am

Your right about the Wyld map Julian. This is AWD's original from the National Archives, just to complete the set.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

So is Nomavoyo what we now call Fugitives' ?

Steve
Back to top Go down
Frank Allewell

avatar

Posts : 6353
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 70
Location : Cape Town South Africa

PostSubject: Re: Fugitives' Drift: a little help needed   Fri Sep 09, 2016 11:46 am

No wonder Chelmsford was baffled !

Steve
Look at my earlier post

Cheers
Back to top Go down
rusteze

avatar

Posts : 2137
Join date : 2010-06-02

PostSubject: Re: Fugitives' Drift: a little help needed   Fri Sep 09, 2016 11:54 am

Sorry Frank. Senile!
Steve
Back to top Go down
Frank Allewell

avatar

Posts : 6353
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 70
Location : Cape Town South Africa

PostSubject: Re: Fugitives' Drift: a little help needed   Fri Sep 09, 2016 12:03 pm

Im not 100% sure on the exact position, Ive been told its a couple of miles down river from RD. There is a cliff gorge ( with bushman paintings ) and then a flat area before the rock fissue that IK thinks is where the impi crossed for RD. Still haven't figured how they could jump an 8 foot wide chasm, especially Dabulamanzis horse, but hey Im not a learned author. Its also possible that its just before the cliff face. There is an old ford there that Ive seen being used.
Senile is as senile does, sorry Forest.
Back to top Go down
Ray63

avatar

Posts : 636
Join date : 2012-05-05

PostSubject: Re: Fugitives' Drift: a little help needed   Fri Sep 09, 2016 1:39 pm

ADMIN wrote:
Click on this link
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Once open scroll down and look for The Story of the Zulu's . There's a mention of a "Ford called Nomavovo's

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Pete, this from the link you posted.

"Maziyana had found these to be ridden by Mehlokazulu and his brother Bekuzulu, and twenty or thirty other Zulus, who were then advancing towards the front of the hut. Another force numbering some forty or fifty, on foot and armed with shields and assegais, were seen advancing from the rear.
Asked the cause of this visit, Mehlokazulu said he was in search of his mother, and thereupon ordered the men who were on foot to search for the woman in the huts. She was found there, dragged out and along the footpath and through the river by the ford called Nomavovo's."
Back to top Go down
Ray63

avatar

Posts : 636
Join date : 2012-05-05

PostSubject: Re: Fugitives' Drift: a little help needed   Fri Sep 09, 2016 2:19 pm

From the Link posted by Pete. I think the book was published in 1911

"The Zulus
describe the whizzing of bullets around them as having been like to the passing of ai swarm of bees. Cannons roared and shells burst in their midst. Hundreds fell pierced by the first or lacerated by the second. But still they pressed forward till they overwhelmed the infantry opposed to their right, and drove in the artillery ; till the volunteers and native troops, from want of ammunition and close pressure, had to relinquish their position and fall back on the camp. By this time the Zulu right wing was streaming past both sides of the Isandhlwana Hill and threatening to cut off the only retreat, seeing which the mounted natives made a dash for safety through the neck, over which the column had come two days previously, and down the Manzamnyama Valley to a crossing in the Buffalo River, since known as Fugitive's Drift, saving also by their example some few of those Europeans who were not too long in following it."
Back to top Go down
littlehand

avatar

Posts : 7077
Join date : 2009-04-24
Age : 48
Location : Down South.

PostSubject: Re: Fugitives' Drift: a little help needed   Fri Sep 09, 2016 2:47 pm

barry wrote:
Try Sothondosi's. I think the name change only came about post 1879

barry

As Barry say's

Ian Knights Companion to the Anglo-Zulu War page 45

"Many more were killed in the running fight to the banks on the Manzimnyama stream and along the Mzinyathi at Sothondose'e ("Fugitives") Drift."


Ian Knight (Pinned like Rtas in a hole"

"Unable to reach Rorke's Drift, the survivors struck the Mzinyathi a few miles ... where a narrow gorge concealed a dubious crossing known as Sothondose's Drift"



Adrian Greaves - Rorkes Drift 2012 - ‎History

"Released the following day, the Zulus took comfort at the neighbouring village at Sothondose's Drift, soon to be known as Fugitives' Drift."
Back to top Go down
littlehand

avatar

Posts : 7077
Join date : 2009-04-24
Age : 48
Location : Down South.

PostSubject: Re: Fugitives' Drift: a little help needed   Fri Sep 09, 2016 3:00 pm

View of Buffalo River at Fugitive's Drift (Sothondose's Drift) the scene of one of the famous Anglo Zulu battles of 1879. Also known as the great Battlefield of Isandlwana and the Oskarberg

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Back to top Go down
Julian Whybra



Posts : 1801
Join date : 2011-09-12

PostSubject: Re: Fugitives' Drift: a little help needed   Fri Sep 09, 2016 3:36 pm

littlehand
You quoted "neighbouring village of Sothondose's Drift"???
There's no village there; it's just a drift isn't it?
Back to top Go down
Frank Allewell

avatar

Posts : 6353
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 70
Location : Cape Town South Africa

PostSubject: Re: Fugitives' Drift: a little help needed   Fri Sep 09, 2016 3:43 pm

Julian it is at present but at that time there were people living in the immediate area. Im not so sure it was at the drift, that's a big floodplain but certainly close by. Didn't the chasing Zulus shout over the river to enlist help in stopping the British?
Back to top Go down
90th

avatar

Posts : 9219
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 61
Location : Melbourne, Australia

PostSubject: Fugitives ' Drift ; A little help needed .    Fri Sep 09, 2016 3:43 pm

Julian , littlehand is quoting Greaves , which may explain why I haven't got many of his books Joker . I don't remember reading of a village at Sothondose's Drift ? .
90th
Back to top Go down
Julian Whybra



Posts : 1801
Join date : 2011-09-12

PostSubject: Re: Fugitives' Drift: a little help needed   Fri Sep 09, 2016 3:45 pm

There's no village on a modern map at that location and I've looked on all the old maps I have and can't find any trace of a settlement or kraal. Just an error I suppose.
Back to top Go down
xhosa2000

avatar

Posts : 804
Join date : 2015-11-24

PostSubject: Re: Fugitives' Drift: a little help needed   Fri Sep 09, 2016 3:50 pm

as Ray63 say's Gibson 1911. much later than contemporary
newspaper accounts..

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Back to top Go down
Frank Allewell

avatar

Posts : 6353
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 70
Location : Cape Town South Africa

PostSubject: Re: Fugitives' Drift: a little help needed   Fri Sep 09, 2016 4:13 pm

Julian
There are so many that were never marked. there are hundreds of these little villages, very few are mapped today.
There were two 'agents that lived along the banks of the Mzinyathi below Rorkes Drift.
Mswagele had a kraal just south of the Bashee ( then known as the Cumbeza stream ( that's been questioned for some time ) it was there that MaMtshali was arrested and dragged over the river and killed on the banks of the stream. The stream itsef by the way is like a highway straight to Mehlokazulus family home. Just a bit further south was Maziyanas station at Nomavoyos, that was the place MaMthetwa was arrested and taken across the river. She was killed in the same place. The statement of Maziyana says that she was taken along the path before they crossed ie: towards the Cumbeza Stream. There are two streams that flow into the mzinyathi just below Rorkes Drift Both are higher up than Fugitives drift, those are placed by Harry Lugg " it was at the source of this stream and not far from St Augustines Mission that two of Sirayos wives were killed etc". Only one of those streams goes close to St Augustines and that's the Cumbeza/Bashee as its called today.
having established that geographical location it firmly places the two border agents.
Sorry long winded way of moving Nomavoyo from Sothondos. to further upstream.

Cheers

Back to top Go down
90th

avatar

Posts : 9219
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 61
Location : Melbourne, Australia

PostSubject: Fugitives ' Drift ; A little help needed .    Fri Sep 09, 2016 4:26 pm

Frank there was probably a ' village ' in the vicinity , but not at the actual drift , the Natal Natives you mention , I remember reading they had came down to the river to see what was going on because of the noise etc .
90th
Back to top Go down
Frank Allewell

avatar

Posts : 6353
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 70
Location : Cape Town South Africa

PostSubject: Re: Fugitives' Drift: a little help needed   Fri Sep 09, 2016 4:38 pm

Fully agree Gary.
Having been there Im sure you would agree that the nearest place to build would be on the top area overlooking the river.
Back to top Go down
90th

avatar

Posts : 9219
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 61
Location : Melbourne, Australia

PostSubject: Fugitives ' Drift ; A little help needed .    Fri Sep 09, 2016 5:07 pm

Frank
Frank you certainly misquoted IK in saying he said the Zulu's crossed at the fissure , he never said they all crossed at the so called fissure , if you read his accounts you'll see he writes Witt , Smith & Reynolds say they crossed at two distinct places ! . One downstream in the valley above Fugitives Drift , the other nearer to Rorkes Drift , where the river wasn't as fierce , Dabulamanzi didn't cross at the fissure , so you don't need to worry about how he got across , it was the iNdluyengwe who crossed supposedly in that area , Dabulamanzi was with the other larger party , Smith said they took a while to get across , they then rested , and I think took snuff on the bank for a few minutes before setting off . You may've confused your learned Authors Shocked !
90th
Back to top Go down
rusteze

avatar

Posts : 2137
Join date : 2010-06-02

PostSubject: Re: Fugitives' Drift: a little help needed   Fri Sep 09, 2016 5:49 pm

Modern map (or as modern as it gets). The river that comes into the "Buffalo" (Mzinyathi) just south of "Buffalo Bend" I take to be the Bashee (Cumbeza)?

I count four small streams coming in before "Buffalo Gorge" proper (where the contour lines at the side of the river become very close and it sweeps south then east again). And then no streams into the gorge until the three opposite the Fugitives Drift monument. Then one larger stream (where the gorge looks to be at its steepest) just before the Buffalo turns south again. All these streams from the Zululand bank.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Steve
Back to top Go down
Frank Allewell

avatar

Posts : 6353
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 70
Location : Cape Town South Africa

PostSubject: Re: Fugitives' Drift: a little help needed   Fri Sep 09, 2016 7:26 pm

Steve
There are only two significant stream entries into the Mzimyathi. For conditions at the time have a look at the map: Military Survey of the country around iSandlwana.
Gary
No Im not misquoting and Im aware that IK splits the regiments, as noted by Smith et al. The crossing by the fissue is practically impossible, especially in flood. The mouth of the Bashee is far superior, if a lot wider with a rocky bottom. IK has a photo of the fissue in Nothing Remains but to fight Page 65. Didn't Smith say they saw them emerge from the valley in two sections, I don't recall him watching the crossing?
So no confusion. It would be of note to see what ian backs up his story of the fissue, that is apart from Tradition! Im sure you will ask him.
Cheers
Back to top Go down
Chard1879

avatar

Posts : 1263
Join date : 2010-04-12

PostSubject: Re: Fugitives' Drift: a little help needed   Fri Sep 09, 2016 7:52 pm

A ford is a shallow place with good footing where a river or stream may be crossed by wading, or inside a vehicle getting its wheels wet. A ford is mostly a natural phenomenon, in contrast to a low water crossing, which is an artificial bridge that allows crossing a river or stream when water is low.

I can't find any definition of a Drift, that makes sense in the context we want.
Back to top Go down
littlehand

avatar

Posts : 7077
Join date : 2009-04-24
Age : 48
Location : Down South.

PostSubject: Re: Fugitives' Drift: a little help needed   Fri Sep 09, 2016 8:12 pm

"The case against Adendorff largely rests on a comment by Donald R. Morris in his classic account of the war, The Washing of the Spears. Among the notes on his sources, Morris comments "my suspicion that Adendorff did not stay to aid the defence is based on analysis of all the sources listed for both battles. Space precludes a review of the evidence, which I hope to publish separately." Morris never did publish that evidence, however, and it is probably fair to say that a good deal more evidence has come to life since the publication of his book which suggests just the opposite.
There are two basic charges against Adendorff, which amount to a comprehensive accusation of cowardice. I believe that the evidence supports neither, and that Adendorff is an unfairly maligned man.
The case for the prosecution is as follows. Since Chard was adamant that Adendorff appeared on the Zulu bank of Rorke's Drift while he, Chard, was still at his tent by the ponts, it is argued that Adendorff must have left the camp at Isandlwana rather earlier than he should, because the Zulu right horn, sweeping down the Manzimnyama valley behind Isandlwana, had cut the road to Rorke's Drift long before the majority of the survivors got away. That being the case, those who did manage to escape did so by means of a hair-raising ride across country, crossing the Mzinyathi (Buffalo) several miles downstream from Rorke's Drift, at a rocky crossing known as Sothondose's Drift, and subsequently dubbed Fugitives' Drift. Secondly, it is argued that since there are few references to Adendorff staying at Rorke's Drift, and since all the other fugitives' from Isandlwana fled, Adendorff must have done the same. Quite why Adendorff should be singled out for disapproval in this regard is not explained; no-one suggests that there was anything shameful in the conduct of - say - Captains Gardner and Essex, or Lieutenants Curling, Cochrane and Smith-Dorrien, all of whom thought it wiser to head straight for Helmekaar. This despite the fact that these officers were all professional soldiers, while Adendorff, as a Lieutenant in the Native Contingent, was a volunteer. Indeed, given that the survivors from Isandlwana were all exhausted, shocked - even traumatised - and in some cases almost hysterical, it seems absurd that anyone would have thought badly of them for avoiding another fight (which under the circumstances must have seemed pretty hopeless). Nor did any one; except in the case of Adendorff.
Curiously, given the prevailing opinion against him, there is sufficient evidence to recreate something of Adendorff's movements on 22/23rd January 1879. Firstly, we know that he was with Captain Robert Krohn's No. 6 Company of the 1st Battalion, 3rd Regiment, NNC, because the Adjutant of the Battalion, Lieutenant Walter Higginson, left a detailed account of the battle which mentions Adendorff in passing. Moreover, the same account tells us exactly what Krohn's company did during the battle, and provides some clue as to what time Adendorff left the camp.
According to Higginson, Krohn's company was ordered to fall in at about 6 am on the morning of the 22nd, and to march out to the plain in front of the camp where another NNC company (No. 9, 1/3rd NNC, under Captain James Faunce Lonsdale), had been on piquet duty over-night. Krohn's company was to relieve Lonsdale's on piquet duty. However, before Krohn's company could march out, the order was countermanded. Another NNC piquet, this time on the crest of the iNyoni heights to the immediate left of the camp, had reported that Zulus were visible on the heights, and the alarm was sounded. Krohn's men were ordered instead to fall in line in front of their tents, "as the Zulus were reported in sight". As a result, the unfortunate Captain Lonsdale's company remained in front of the camp, and subsequently found themselves incorporated into the front line - but that's another story.
It is at this point that Higginson mentions Adendorff (whose name he spells with one 'f')

“Soon afterwards Lieut. Adendorf of my Company (No. 6) was sent out to the 2nd Batt. outlying piquet [i.e. on the lip of the escarpment] to bring in a report from Captain Barry in charge of the Piquet. He came back very soon and made his report and shortly afterwards I was sent out...”

It is interesting to speculate, incidentally, why it was felt necessary to send Higginson out when Adendorff had only just returned. Perhaps Adendorff's report was incomplete or unsatisfactory; perhaps his report was considered so unlikely that a more experienced officer (Higginson had served in the Dublin City Militia) was needed to verify it.
Anyway, all this occurred early in the morning, for Higginson remained observing the Zulus for about half an hour, then returned to camp, where Col. Durnford had just arrived. Higginson put the time then at about 10 am. Higginson goes on to describe how reports of the Zulu presence on the iNyoni heights prompted Durnford to make the decision to ride out from the camp to investigate. Durnford asked Pulleine if he might borrow Higginson, presumably because Higginson had recently observed the Zulu movements, and as a result Higginson found himself attached to the party commanded by Captain George Shepstone which rode up onto the iNyoni heights via the spur which runs down to the tail of Isandlwana. It was elements of this party, of course, which discovered the main Zulu army; Higginson says he was about 100 yards behind them when they did so. He rode forward, saw their predicament, and then rode back to the camp. As he descended the escarpment he saw the 24th (Captain Mostyn's company, presumably) taking up their positions on the spur. Having made a report to Pulleine, he returned to his company, which was still in position in front of the NNC tents.
Higginson makes no further mention of Adendorff, but it is important to note that at this stage there was no particular sense of alarm in the camp. The Zulu attack was still not visible from the camp; at best, only Mostyn's and Cavaye's companies were engaged, and no-one on the slope below Isandlwana could see what they were firing at. Even if Lieutenant Adendorff was of a particularly nervous disposition, there is no reason to suppose that he was not still with his company, to whom he had returned earlier that morning.
Krohn's company played no great role in the subsequent fight; it was either deliberately held in reserve, or, in the excitement of the moment, it was forgotten about. It remained in front of the tents while the Zulus descended from the escarpment; then, as the British line was outflanked and collapsed, Krohn's company fled before the Zulus could rush in to attack it. It is worth quoting Higginson's account in some detail here, because it gives a firm hint of when those survivors who did get away actually left the camp;

“... the Zulus extended all round the front of the camp, and drove back the few men that opposed them, when my company saw them coming on nothing could stop them, they all jumped up and ran, and though I knocked one man down with my rifle it was no use, I then saw the men of the 2nd Batt. N.N.C. running and looking for the 24th men, I saw that they were retreating also, but very slowly, all the mounted men were riding past as fast as they could, and I then thought it time to go too, so, firing one last shot, I mounted my horse ... and rode off”.

Now this passage is significant in two respects; firstly, because it gives a vivid impression of the suddenness of the British collapse, and secondly because it clearly indicates that most of those who got away - Colonial officers and Natal Volunteers - left while the 24th were still retreating. And so it must have been; this was there only chance, for once the 24th had been driven back onto the nek below Isandlwana, the right horn had rushed up to attack them from the rear, and the avenue of escape was closed. As a digression, the usual assumption is that the regular officers who survived left a few moments after the Colonials. This is consistent in that the regulars would probably have looked to their duty with the infantry until the last moment, and only considered it acceptable to flee once it was clear that the 24th's position was hopeless - a revelation which would, incidentally, have come pretty quickly after the initial collapse. With that in mind, however, it is interesting that Higginson is quite specific that "as we got to the [Mzinyathi] river I met Lieut. Melville [sic] and Coghill ... [and] I overtook them...". Higginson, of course, crossed the river with Melvill and Coghill, and was the last British soldier to see them alive.
If one accepts that Adendorff abandoned the camp when Krohn's company fled - along with all its other white NCOs and officers, presumably - how did he manage to escape, not via Fugitives' Drift, but by Rorke's Drift? Adendorff himself seems to have left no account of his movements, but a fellow NNC officer who survived, Captain Walter Stafford of E Company, 1st/1st NNC, has left us some clues. Stafford was a young man at the time of the battle, and lived to a ripe old age; in later years he was frequently asked to tell the story of the fight at each new anniversary.

Ian Knight review..."
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Fugitives' Drift: a little help needed   

Back to top Go down
 
Fugitives' Drift: a little help needed
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 3Go to page : 1, 2, 3  Next

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM  :: GENERAL DISCUSSION AREA-
Jump to: