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 Zulu King wanted a British Officer taken alive.

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littlehand

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PostSubject: Zulu King wanted a British Officer taken alive.   Fri Aug 28, 2009 3:59 pm

Is it true that King Cetshwayo ordered the Zulu warriors to capture alive a British officers. If yes for what reason would he have wanted the officer, My guess would have been to tell this officer that he wished for peace and not war. Hoping this officer would relay the message to Chelmsford.There would have been no point in taking him alive. only to kill him. Would There ??
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Chelmsfordthescapegoat

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PostSubject: Re: Zulu King wanted a British Officer taken alive.   Fri Aug 28, 2009 9:19 pm

In one of the Battles, the zulu's did try to capture a British Officer. But something when wrong. Can't remember right now, If I remember i will post it.
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24th

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PostSubject: Re: Zulu King wanted a British Officer taken alive.   Sat Aug 29, 2009 10:25 am

Hi Littlehand / CTSG
I set about searching the net to find any refrence to your question. And found this.

Battle of Hlobane:

Barton knew that these men without mounts were as good as dead. Recognizing one of his officers, he reined in his horse and picked up Lieutenant Poole of the Border Horse. Barton’s heavily-laden horse stumbled along for several miles, hotly pursued on foot by a number of the seemingly indefatigable Zulu warriors. Finally, the wounded animal could struggle on no farther. The two Britishers tried to escape on foot, but Poole was overtaken and killed by Chicheeli of the umCijo ibutho. Chicheeli–who claimed to have already killed six other enemies in the fight–then caught up with Barton and, when Barton’s pistol failed to fire, gestured for him to surrender, since Cetshwayo had given orders for his warriors to bring in prominent British officers alive, if possible. As Barton was about to surrender, however, another Zulu shot him. Chagrined at losing his prisoner, but wishing at least to be credited with the kill, Chicheeli finished off the mortally wounded Barton with his assegai.

Source: historynet
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littlehand

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PostSubject: Re: Zulu King wanted a British Officer taken alive.   Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:12 am

Thanks for the information. Has anyone got, or could tell me where I can see a photo / image of Barton and if possible his grave.
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90th

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PostSubject: Barton"s grave site   Sat Aug 29, 2009 12:25 pm

hi littlehand.
I have no idea how to post photos on the forum, if you have KNIGHT"S , THE ZULU WAR THEN AND NOW, you will find a
photo of Barton on page 139. As for his grave , Chicheeli took COL WOOD to the body in 1880 , WOOD was amazed that
chicheeli had lead them virtually straight to Barton"s remains. Wood"s party buried him where he had fallen, without going
through my book"s im sure no-one knows the whereabouts of Bartons grave , LT POOLE who was with BARTON was killed
nearby and the first to die. I seem to recall reading that Wood's party also buried Poole.
cheers 90th.
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PostSubject: Re: Zulu King wanted a British Officer taken alive.   Sat Aug 29, 2009 1:02 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Captain Robert Johnston BARTON - 2nd Coldstream Guards
Photo Copyright ©️ John. Young
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1879graves

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PostSubject: Re: Zulu King wanted a British Officer taken alive.   Sat Aug 29, 2009 1:04 pm

A Zulu Chief named Tshitshili, seeing that the horse was on its last legs, trotted along with several other Zulus behind the British officers for 7 miles until the horse collapsed. Poole was killed first, and Barton surrounded. Because Cetshwayo had again ordered his men to capture a few British officers for him to interrogate at Ulundi, Tshitshili approached Barton, put down his rifle and spear, and motioned for Barton to surrender. Barton did not understand. He raised his pistol, but it misfired three times, and another Zulu Shot Barton. Because it would not do for another man claim first spear, Tshitshili then dashed up and speared Barton. Fourteen months later Tshitshili unerringly led wood to the spot where Poole and Barton had died. Tshitshili amazed Wood by recalling that Barton had a few small pockmarks on his face. Wood insisted that Barton had no pockmarks and took out a photo of Barton to prove his point. Tshitshili was right.
(p 123) Originally 'From Midshipman to Field Marshall' by Field-Marshall Sir Evelyn Wood.
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90th

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PostSubject: BARTON PHOTO.   Sat Aug 29, 2009 1:07 pm

hi 1879graves.
Is that from the ZULU WAR THEN AND NOW ? .its the same photo which is on page 139 .
cheers 90th.
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PostSubject: Re: Zulu King wanted a British Officer taken alive.   Sat Aug 29, 2009 1:14 pm

Hi 90th

The photo of Barton comes from Mackinnon (J.P.) and Sydney Shadbolt. The South African Campaign, 1879.

It is the only known photo of Barton that I know of.
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old historian2

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PostSubject: Re: Zulu King wanted a British Officer taken alive.   Sun Aug 30, 2009 12:30 pm

Littlehand Extract from: Zulu Mountain Trap Sprung
By William Watson Race and Jon Guttman

With reference to your question regarding Barton’s Grave

"Captain Robert Barton's remains were buried by Wood in 1880; his gravesite is known to local tour guides familiar with the area. Hlobane has been known to the Zulu since 1879 as the "Stabbing Mountain."
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PostSubject: Re: Zulu King wanted a British Officer taken alive.   Sun Aug 30, 2009 8:42 pm

From a well known Zulu War Historian.

"A number of people have endeavoured to find it but to no avail. I went to the general region where it was thought to be, with the late David Rattray back in 1991, together with a local copper. Needless to say our quest was fruitless. "
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24th

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PostSubject: Re- Barton   Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:23 pm

Here is a familey link. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Captain Robert Johnston Barton (brother of C.W. Barton and hence, uncle to R.C. Barton) was born on 20 February 1839. He was the son of Thomas Johnston Barton and Frances Morris. He died on 28 March 1879 at age 40 at Zululand, killed in action.
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John

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PostSubject: Re: Zulu King wanted a British Officer taken alive.   Wed May 16, 2012 8:15 pm

It appears that some men were take as prisoners at Isandlwana, but for whatever reason they were killed on the Battlefield. Now there is a mention somewhere on the forum that men were found at Isandlwana with there hands bound behind their backs. (can anyone remember where this is on the forum)
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PostSubject: Re: Zulu King wanted a British Officer taken alive.   Wed May 16, 2012 8:26 pm

Corpral Bassage's Note Book, it rubbish of course as he is refering to the G Coy dead, and they were found around
600 yards from the camp and were the first to be overwhelmded, so the Zulus wouldn't have had time to get rope
from the camp.



Cheers
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John

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PostSubject: Re: Zulu King wanted a British Officer taken alive.   Wed May 16, 2012 8:53 pm

I think your find it's not rubbish. It's on the forum. I'm looking for it now but I recall it was from a primary source.
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PostSubject: Re: Zulu King wanted a British Officer taken alive.   Wed May 16, 2012 8:59 pm

Corpral Bassage

First visit to Isandhlwana to bury remains 20th June 1879. My pocket ledger was recovered by Pte Carlton. Second visit 23rd June 1879 bodies found in heaps as if great resistance was shown Lieut. & Acting Adjutant Dyer’s body was found surrounded by about eleven men. Sixty four were found in a square. Four companies found. Lying as they fell fighting back to back. G Company 2/24th Regiment with the exception of a few men was found lying in the place where they were posted the previous night as an outlying piquet. In fact the whole sight was of a most horrible nature. the remains of mules, bullocks, horses and harness all lying in heaps.
Most every man had his interals let out and privates cut off some their hands and feet tied together. In this position they died an horrible death it must have been as could be discerned by the features as a few were still recognizable.
3rd visit 26th June 1879 one man found cut asunder in the middle Latham found with Sergt Shaw, Pte James White….976 Jones they appeared to have been stabbed with the assegai while trying to keep the Zulus off in front.
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John

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PostSubject: Re: Zulu King wanted a British Officer taken alive.   Wed May 16, 2012 9:07 pm

Possibly. But I don't think it's the account. However could the men inquestion have been taken as prisoners at first. You would only restrain someone in that matter to prevent them from escaping.
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John

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PostSubject: Re: Zulu King wanted a British Officer taken alive.   Wed May 16, 2012 9:09 pm

I'm sure the thread was to do with one of the RD defenders, who was at Isandlwana to escort some prisoners back. Or something like that.
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Drummer Boy 14

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PostSubject: Re: Zulu King wanted a British Officer taken alive.   Wed May 16, 2012 9:10 pm

John thats the account from Copral Bassage 2/24th.

Here the topic

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Cheers
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John

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PostSubject: Re: Zulu King wanted a British Officer taken alive.   Wed May 16, 2012 9:46 pm

That's the one. I can sleep tonight now!!!

I don't think we can dismiss this as rubbish. and I do believe prisoners were taken. But it was decided to kill them.
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24th

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PostSubject: Re: Zulu King wanted a British Officer taken alive.   Wed May 16, 2012 10:24 pm

John. You say this was in Newman's book. But does it give the primary source, or is Newman just writing what he heard.
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