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Zulu Dawn Lt Col Pulleine Lord Chelmsford assures us that there is no way the Zulu can get around us without our knowing. Col Durnford Zulu generals have a nasty habit of doing the unexpected It might be wise to picket the hills
 
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 Photographies of casualties

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martinusmagnus



Posts : 17
Join date : 2010-11-22

Photographies of casualties Empty
PostSubject: Photographies of casualties   Photographies of casualties EmptySun Dec 04, 2016 9:15 pm

Hello,

maybe a kind of morbid question....

But are there any known photographies of casualties / fallen soldiers / warriors of the Zulu conflict?

I know of a picture of Ulundi with visible bones of some fallen and a picture published in Ian Knight's "The Zulu War 1879" (page 91).

(There are a lot photographs available from the US Civil War, WW1 for sure, even one from a battle in China which was around the same time of the Zulu War.)

Thanks for your help.

Regards

martinusmagnus
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Taff price



Posts : 37
Join date : 2015-02-14
Age : 45
Location : cardiff

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PostSubject: Re: Photographies of casualties   Photographies of casualties EmptySun Dec 04, 2016 10:45 pm

Hi Martin

The linc below shows the final battle of Ulundi as it was happening.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
What I understand is photographers were only sent out with the reinforcements after LC was pushed back into natal, so I don't think there were any photos of the dead at Isandlwana or Rorkes Drift.
I'm hopping someone can correct me and produce some pics for you, I think that would be quite interesting.

Thanks

Geraint
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Kenny



Posts : 373
Join date : 2013-05-07
Location : Brecon

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PostSubject: Re: Photographies of casualties   Photographies of casualties EmptyMon Dec 05, 2016 8:47 am

There are a couple of Illustrations - sketches (not photographs) in 'Soldier-Artist in Zululand'. A sketch by Melton Prior (21 May 1879) owned by the Rattray Family, and one of a wagon driver by WW Lloyd himself (dated July 1879).
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

Posts : 7256
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 72
Location : Cape Town South Africa

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PostSubject: Re: Photographies of casualties   Photographies of casualties EmptyMon Dec 05, 2016 10:15 am

Martinus there are photographs on the site of skeletons from the Zulu charges at Gingindlovu.

Frank
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martinusmagnus



Posts : 17
Join date : 2010-11-22

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PostSubject: Re: Photographies of casualties   Photographies of casualties EmptyMon Dec 05, 2016 9:21 pm

Hello all,

thank you very much for your messages.

I checked this book, well its "slightly" out of budget even if it would be available on the market.

Googled for these Gingindlovu photographs. Think they are not available in the net. Were they published in a book, are they in a public archive or are they privately owned?

Regards

Martinusmagnus
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John Young

John Young

Posts : 1919
Join date : 2013-09-08
Age : 63
Location : Lower Sheering, Essex

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PostSubject: Re: Photographies of casualties   Photographies of casualties EmptyMon Dec 05, 2016 10:44 pm

David & I used a photograph from my collection that shows Zulu casualties on page 208 of Victoria's Harvest.

That should be within the budget of most people.

John Y.
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littlehand

littlehand

Posts : 7075
Join date : 2009-04-24
Age : 51
Location : Down South.

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PostSubject: Re: Photographies of casualties   Photographies of casualties EmptyMon Dec 05, 2016 11:24 pm

Not sure if this is genuine! But is in the Killie Campbell collection. Comments welcome. It has been post on here years ago, but the image is missing on the original thread.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Description:
Burial party, Isandlwana
Resolution:
600 dpi
Date:
n.d.
Source:
Album C58/001-166 Photographs of Natal and Zululand by B. Kisch, Durban-Natal, c1882 [BRN 350503]
Author/Creator:
B. Kisch


Original thread:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

Posts : 7256
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 72
Location : Cape Town South Africa

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PostSubject: Re: Photographies of casualties   Photographies of casualties EmptyTue Dec 06, 2016 12:19 am

Taken I believe after the war in PMB. The natives on the left with spears seeming to be stabbed actually have the spears tucked under their armas.
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Dave

Dave

Posts : 1605
Join date : 2009-09-21

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PostSubject: Re: Photographies of casualties   Photographies of casualties EmptyTue Dec 06, 2016 9:23 pm

Is there any evidence to suggest if this is fake or real ? Or are we just guessing?
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barry

barry

Posts : 911
Join date : 2011-10-21
Location : Algoa Bay

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PostSubject: Integrity of photographs   Photographies of casualties EmptyWed Dec 07, 2016 3:51 am

Hi Dave,
No guessing!.
Fake or staged/misannotated. The flora shown in the picture background is not found at the dry higher elevations in the hinterland of the region. The lower lying coastal strip, more likely Pinetown,as previously supposed, was the more likely site of the burial.
The two recent photos posted showing the laid out Isandlwana tented camp and the attack on the camp itself were both fake, perhaps early examples of photo manipulation too.

regards ,

barry
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John Young

John Young

Posts : 1919
Join date : 2013-09-08
Age : 63
Location : Lower Sheering, Essex

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PostSubject: Re: Photographies of casualties   Photographies of casualties EmptyWed Dec 07, 2016 9:06 am

Dave,

Here's what I wrote on the cross-referenced posting mentioned above:

It is clearly a staged photograph as already mentioned.

The so-called burial party is under the command of Captain Alfred Godwin-Austen, 2nd/24th, wearing the 1878 star helmet plate on his helmet. Some other interesting uniform and equipment detail appears in the photograph: the Colour-Sergeant's insignia on the soldier 4th from the left; the helmet covers worn by two officers and at least one other-rank; the Sergeant-Instructor of Musketry wearing a pistol and sword and the kneeling other-rank wearing the older pattern ammunition pouch with curved edge.

For the best printed version of the photograph see page 110 of Nothing Remains But to Fight.

Given that Alfred's clasp for 1879 was disallowed it is obvious that it taken nowhere near any fighting.


That's together with Barry's assessment of the local floral is fairly conclusive that the photograph is staged.

John Y.
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xhosa2000

xhosa2000

Posts : 1203
Join date : 2015-11-24

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PostSubject: Re: Photographies of casualties   Photographies of casualties EmptyWed Dec 07, 2016 12:37 pm

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90th

90th

Posts : 9982
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 63
Location : Melbourne, Australia

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PostSubject: Photogrphs of casualties    Photographies of casualties EmptyThu Dec 08, 2016 6:18 am

To put it in a Nutshell there aren't any photographs showing actual casualties , the only one's that come close are the those taken of the Skeletons of Zulu dead at Gingindlovhu as JY mentions . As someone else also mentioned there are several sketches which depict certain individuals .
Cheers 90th
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martinusmagnus



Posts : 17
Join date : 2010-11-22

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PostSubject: Re: Photographies of casualties   Photographies of casualties EmptyThu Dec 08, 2016 12:32 pm

90th wrote:
To put it in a Nutshell there aren't any photographs showing actual casualties , the only one's that come close are the those taken of the Skeletons of Zulu dead at Gingindlovhu as JY mentions . As someone else also mentioned there are several sketches which depict certain individuals .
Cheers 90th

I think these are some good "closing words".

Thank you all for your ideas and thoughts on my question.

I appreciate that!

Regards

Martinusmagnus
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90th

90th

Posts : 9982
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 63
Location : Melbourne, Australia

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PostSubject: Photogrphs of casualties    Photographies of casualties EmptyThu Dec 08, 2016 12:39 pm

Happy to help Martinusmagnus.
90th Salute
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