Latest topics | » Punch's view of Chelmsford's tactics!Today at 11:37 am by lydenburg » Writing adviceTue Mar 26, 2024 2:26 pm by Julian Whybra » Private John Scott 24th Regiment a fugitive at largeWed Mar 20, 2024 12:53 pm by Dash » Sergeant W E Warren RA - VeteranTue Mar 19, 2024 9:32 pm by Matthew Turl » Your favourite line from Zulu or Zulu DawnTue Mar 19, 2024 4:52 pm by Julian Whybra » 100,000 posts!Tue Mar 19, 2024 2:20 pm by Julian Whybra » Zulu Dawn/Zulu - New Immortals Film The Way Forward ?Sat Mar 16, 2024 2:34 pm by jgregory » Badge on 2/60th and 3/60th foreign service helmets Sat Mar 16, 2024 11:05 am by John Young » Corporal James Frowen Williams F Company. Fri Mar 15, 2024 9:08 am by Julian Whybra » British rations and moraleMon Mar 11, 2024 11:05 pm by Julian Whybra » Blue Plaque to James Egan, alias Private HaganMon Mar 11, 2024 9:16 pm by ADMIN» A few questions regarding Rorke's Drift and IsandlwanaWed Mar 06, 2024 9:16 pm by Julian Whybra » William J Hoare 24th Regiment??Sun Mar 03, 2024 7:08 pm by Dash » Swinburn Carbine issue in AZWThu Feb 29, 2024 12:53 pm by Rob D » Australians who went to Zululand and fought in the 1879 war.Thu Feb 29, 2024 8:39 am by John Young » Philip Price Thu Feb 29, 2024 7:55 am by Julian Whybra » Alfred Fairlie Henderson Thu Feb 29, 2024 7:47 am by RoryReynolds » August Hammar Letter Dated 6th Jan 1879Thu Feb 22, 2024 8:34 pm by Stefaan » Bearing The Cross by Ken Blakeson | BBC RADIO DRAMA: Ken Blakeson's play tells the story of the Battle of Rorke's Drift and the effect it had on three of the soldiers who fought in it.Wed Feb 21, 2024 10:57 am by Julian Whybra » Letter of officer during Zulu wars.Wed Feb 21, 2024 10:47 am by Julian Whybra » About the second invasionTue Feb 20, 2024 9:14 pm by 90th » Zulu Festival Brecon July 2024Sat Feb 17, 2024 7:35 pm by John Young » Watford band boys killed at iSandlwanaFri Feb 16, 2024 8:26 am by Julian Whybra » Private J. McCrudden 1/13 Foot Sun Feb 11, 2024 3:10 am by 90th » Death of Michael Jayson (Zulu Dawn)Thu Feb 08, 2024 9:55 pm by ADMIN» The anniversary of 22nd January in 2024Thu Feb 08, 2024 3:51 pm by luke1997 » What was the distance?Thu Feb 08, 2024 8:46 am by Stefaan » Mrs Henry HookTue Feb 06, 2024 3:14 pm by Kenny » "With 6 good riflemen"Mon Feb 05, 2024 2:30 pm by Mr M. Cooper » What was G company supposed to do?Sun Feb 04, 2024 9:31 pm by Julian Whybra » Private 1445 Charles Meates 17th Lancers and his brother William WylieFri Feb 02, 2024 10:07 pm by John Young » South Africa Medal With Clasp To Pvt J. Salter 3/60thFri Feb 02, 2024 3:12 pm by Foody » Weatherleys Border Horse FlagThu Feb 01, 2024 9:40 pm by Herbie » Edward Plantagenet Kemeys-TynteTue Jan 23, 2024 10:06 pm by Edjg » How many started?Tue Jan 23, 2024 10:10 am by Julian Whybra |
March 2024 | Mon | Tue | Wed | Thu | Fri | Sat | Sun |
---|
| | | | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 | Calendar |
|
Top posting users this month | |
Zero tolerance to harassment and bullying. |
Due to recent events on this forum, we have now imposed a zero tolerance to harassment and bullying. All reports will be treated seriously, and will lead to a permanent ban of both membership and IP address.
Any member blatantly corresponding in a deliberate and provoking manner will be removed from the forum as quickly as possible after the event.
If any members are being harassed behind the scenes PM facility by any member/s here at 1879zuluwar.com please do not hesitate to forward the offending text.
We are all here to communicate and enjoy the various discussions and information on the Anglo Zulu War of 1879. Opinions will vary, you will agree and disagree with one another, we will have debates, and so it goes.
There is no excuse for harassment or bullying of anyone by another person on this site.
The above applies to the main frame areas of the forum.
The ring which is the last section on the forum, is available to those members who wish to partake in slagging matches. That section cannot be viewed by guests and only viewed by members that wish to do so. |
Fair Use Notice | Fair use notice.
This website may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorised by the copyright owner.
We are making such material and images are available in our efforts to advance the understanding of the “Anglo Zulu War of 1879. For educational & recreational purposes.
We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material, as provided for in UK copyright law. The information is purely for educational and research purposes only. No profit is made from any part of this website.
If you hold the copyright on any material on the site, or material refers to you, and you would like it to be removed, please let us know and we will work with you to reach a resolution. |
| | Isandlwana coat colours | |
| | Author | Message |
---|
SRB1965
Posts : 1199 Join date : 2017-05-13 Age : 59 Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....
| Subject: Isandlwana coat colours Sun Jul 02, 2017 8:34 pm | |
| Hi,
Just for a laugh, I have looked at the list of (Imperial) survivors from Isandlwana and put them into ‘tunic’ colours based on the uniforms worn at the time (true, the tunic could have been discarded leaving shirtsleeves but it’s just something I am playing with.)
I’m not sure the total survivor was 38 but here we go....
I believe the ‘lucky five’ all wore the dark blue patrol jacket.
Bombardier Gough (rockets) and the 9 men of N5 RA would also have worn dark blue.
Trainer, Grant, Johnson (rockets) plus Bickley, Wilson (bandsmen) & Williams (groom) would have been in red, as would the 17 men of the IMI
So we have 15 men in blue and 23 in redcoats escaping.
If you then add the Volunteers, NNC officers and civvies, the number of dark (or non red tunics who survived) outnumber the redcoats but also most of these already had access to horses.
I think that given the position of the rocket battery, Trainer, Grant and Johnson were lucky they survived regardless of coat colour...
Have I missed anyone?
Cheers
Simon
|
| | | John Young
Posts : 3230 Join date : 2013-09-08 Age : 68 Location : Слава Україні! Героям слава!
| Subject: Re: Isandlwana coat colours Sun Jul 02, 2017 9:51 pm | |
| Simon,
Where are you getting the figure of seventeen members of No. 1 Squadron, Mounted Infantry surviving from?
In my somewhat dated work They Fell Like Stones... I only record nine survivors from the squadron.
In his work Hill of the Sphinx, David Jackson added another name, that of Private John Gascoigne, of 2nd/3rd, to the figure I had arrived, making ten survivors from No. 1 Squadron, Mounted Infantry.
I don't know what number Julian currently has for the survivors of the squadron, but I think your figure of seventeen is somewhat high.
Just my thoughts.
John Y. |
| | | SRB1965
Posts : 1199 Join date : 2017-05-13 Age : 59 Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....
| Subject: Re: Isandlwana coat colours Mon Jul 03, 2017 6:01 am | |
| Hi john, I will be honest I cheated and used a quick Google search and came up with:- http://www.rorkesdriftvc.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2770&sid=6d6279c5708d581e12303808629c3ae1 I thought 17 seemed a little high but I picked up the ball and ran with it. I have your book but with the majority of my ZW library, its packed away in the loft. It gave me something to do whilst Mrs SRB was stuck glued to Poldark..... Cheers Simon |
| | | 90th
Posts : 10881 Join date : 2009-04-07 Age : 67 Location : Melbourne, Australia
| Subject: Isandlwana Coat Colours Mon Jul 03, 2017 1:15 pm | |
| Hi Simon The last time I checked I think Julian Whybra has 55 as the total number of undisputed Isandlwana Survivors . 90th |
| | | John Young
Posts : 3230 Join date : 2013-09-08 Age : 68 Location : Слава Україні! Героям слава!
| Subject: Re: Isandlwana coat colours Mon Jul 03, 2017 1:26 pm | |
| 90th,
The figure of fifty-five European survivors was put to bed by David Jackson in his original research.
Despite that the number of fifty-five European survivors still appears in works on the subject which post-date his original publication in 1965.
John Y. |
| | | 90th
Posts : 10881 Join date : 2009-04-07 Age : 67 Location : Melbourne, Australia
| Subject: Isandlwana Coat Colours Mon Jul 03, 2017 1:40 pm | |
| Hi JY So what are you saying... 55 is incorrect ? , if so , what is the attributed number of survivors ? . 90th |
| | | John Young
Posts : 3230 Join date : 2013-09-08 Age : 68 Location : Слава Україні! Героям слава!
| Subject: Re: Isandlwana coat colours Mon Jul 03, 2017 2:41 pm | |
| Gary,
Yes, despite the fact that more recent authors maintain the figure of fifty-five European survivors. F. W. David Jackson put pay to that figure as far back as 1965 in his original research Isandhlwana: the Sources Re-examined.
Personally, I would say the figure is at least seventy-eight European survivors, but I would defer to Julian as his research on this matter is far more current than my own.
You are obviously reading the wrong publications on the subject, things have moved on from Coupland...
John Y. |
| | | Julian Whybra
Posts : 3949 Join date : 2011-09-12 Location : Billericay, Essex
| Subject: Re: Isandlwana coat colours Mon Jul 03, 2017 4:10 pm | |
| Hi SRB1965 The next edition of England's Sons will show 92 European survivors and 2 possible survivors, all with appropriate provenance. 11 of these survivors come from the IMI (with another 11 kia). To be accurate in your assessment, you would need to read all the surviving accounts to discover what they were wearing. Some of the IMI for instance recorded that they escaped in their shirtsleeves. I am busy working on Studies in the Zulu War volume IV and I think you will find a few interesting surprises in it when it comes out hopefully in November.
John Thank you. Nice to hear from you by the way albeit second-hand! |
| | | John Young
Posts : 3230 Join date : 2013-09-08 Age : 68 Location : Слава Україні! Героям слава!
| Subject: Re: Isandlwana coat colours Mon Jul 03, 2017 4:29 pm | |
| Julian,
Yes I'm still here, I can get back in the fray for a short while, whilst the Indian Mutiny work goes back to the publishers.
John Y. |
| | | SRB1965
Posts : 1199 Join date : 2017-05-13 Age : 59 Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....
| Subject: Re: Isandlwana coat colours Mon Jul 03, 2017 7:00 pm | |
| - Julian Whybra wrote:
To be accurate in your assessment, you would need to read all the surviving accounts to discover what they were wearing. Some of the IMI for instance recorded that they escaped in their shirtsleeves. Hi Julian, that's going to part two of my project.....probably during the 'next exciting episode' of Poldark...... I will have get my ZW books down from the library/loft...... |
| | | 90th
Posts : 10881 Join date : 2009-04-07 Age : 67 Location : Melbourne, Australia
| Subject: Isandlwana Survivors Tue Jul 04, 2017 6:19 am | |
| JY Hahahahahahaha , Coupland , I thought it was England's Sons that listed the figure of 55 ? , obviously not Anyway , the more the merrier ! . Have you heard from our mate ' The Major ' , he's a bloody funny man isn't he ? . He was toying with the idea of going to the Sudan , Abu Klea from memory , is it safe to go there ? . Would be interesting to set foot on that site . 90th |
| | | Julian Whybra
Posts : 3949 Join date : 2011-09-12 Location : Billericay, Essex
| Subject: Re: Isandlwana coat colours Tue Jul 04, 2017 9:27 am | |
| 90th No, I don't believe I've ever been as low as 55 except perhaps after the first time I read TWOTS back in 1966. I think within a few weeks of reading him I'd done my own calculation which made it well over that. A forum member said to me recently that pretty soon there'll be more survivors from Isandhlwana than those who were kia. Joking of course, it'll never come to that...but it wouldn't surprise me if there are still a few more to be found. Several waggon drivers for a start who left early-ish, many of course without a horse and were overtaken, but there must still have been some who managed it. And perhaps an IMI or two slipped beneath the radar. |
| | | 90th
Posts : 10881 Join date : 2009-04-07 Age : 67 Location : Melbourne, Australia
| Subject: Isandlwana Coat Colours Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:41 am | |
| Thanks Julian for posting much appreciated . What's the number currently of definite Isandlwana survivors according to your research ?, as you say there are probably many more just waiting to be found and scrutinized . 90th |
| | | Julian Whybra
Posts : 3949 Join date : 2011-09-12 Location : Billericay, Essex
| Subject: Re: Isandlwana coat colours Tue Jul 04, 2017 11:50 am | |
| 90th See my post of yesterday of 3.10. |
| | | 90th
Posts : 10881 Join date : 2009-04-07 Age : 67 Location : Melbourne, Australia
| Subject: Isandlwana Coat Colours Tue Jul 04, 2017 12:08 pm | |
| Thanks Julian . 90th |
| | | | Isandlwana coat colours | |
|
Similar topics | |
|
| Permissions in this forum: | You cannot reply to topics in this forum
| |
| |
| |