WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM

Film Zulu Dawn:Lt. Col. Pulleine: His Lordship is of the cetain opinion that it's far too difficult an approach to be chosen by the Zulu command.Col. Durnford: Yes, well... difficulty never deterred a Zulu commander.
 
HomeHome  CalendarCalendar  GalleryGallery  PublicationsPublications  FAQFAQ  SearchSearch  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  
Latest topics
»  Darkest Africa
Today at 9:33 am by John Young

» Prince Imperial Leave Request at Woolwich
Yesterday at 8:03 pm by martinusmagnus

» Lieutenant-Colonel Gerald Lionel Joseph Goff.
Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:26 pm by 90th

» R.I.P Terry Sole
Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:05 pm by nitro450

» Major Gonville Bromhead VC
Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:46 am by SRB1965

» Lt. G. Pardoe 1st Btn 13th (Somerset) Light Infantry
Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:45 am by ADMIN

» Natal Hussars
Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:02 pm by Rory Reynolds

» Location of grave : Lt. F. Scott Natal Carbineers
Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:49 pm by Tim Needham

» Lieutenant Henry Lysons
Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:47 pm by ADMIN

» Lt. H.Valentine Jay. Natal Native Contingent
Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:44 pm by ADMIN

» Lieut & Adjutant Henry Julian Dyer
Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:41 pm by ADMIN

» Lt Gonville Bromhead
Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:19 pm by ADMIN

» MAJOR FRANK BROADWOOD MATTHEWS
Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:15 pm by ADMIN

» Lodge Isandlwana Masonic Military Lodge
Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:11 pm by Muhlenbeck

» Lt. G. Baker 3rd Btn 60th Regiment
Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:03 pm by ADMIN

Lt. General Sir J.G. Wolseley, General Officer Commanding
Mac and Shad (Isandula Collection)
The Battlefields of Isandlwana and Rorke's Drift
Search
 
 

Display results as :
 
Rechercher Advanced Search
Top posters
90th
 
littlehand
 
Frank Allewell
 
ADMIN
 
Chelmsfordthescapegoat
 
John
 
Mr M. Cooper
 
1879graves
 
impi
 
rusteze
 
Fair Use Notice
Fair use notice. This website may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorised by the copyright owner. We are making such material and images are available in our efforts to advance the understanding of the “Anglo Zulu War of 1879. For educational & recreational purposes. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material, as provided for in UK copyright law. The information is purely for educational and research purposes only. No profit is made from any part of this website. If you hold the copyright on any material on the site, or material refers to you, and you would like it to be removed, please let us know and we will work with you to reach a resolution.
Top posting users this month
90th
 
xhosa2000
 
Frank Allewell
 
SRB1965
 
ADMIN
 
Victorian Dad
 
Brett Hendey
 
rusteze
 
FLYNN
 
aussie inkosi
 
Most active topics
Isandlwana, Last Stands
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Durnford was he capable.5
Durnford was he capable.1
Durnford was he capable. 3
Durnford was he capable.2
Durnford was he capable. 4
The ammunition question
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
The missing five hours.

Share | 
 

 Tunics from the dead

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
AuthorMessage
Roselier

avatar

Posts : 15
Join date : 2017-08-04
Location : Leigh, Kent

PostSubject: Tunics from the dead   Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:40 pm

I conducted a search on here by typing 'tunic' but nothing appeared, so my question to the learned people on here is in regard to the tunics taken from the dead at either iSandlwana or indeed Ntombi.

Is there any written evidence or accounts from the actions later during the campaign stating that some Zulus were seen to be wearing captured tunics or is this a bit of artistic licence in contemporary paintings/sketches?
Back to top Go down
SRB1965



Posts : 110
Join date : 2017-05-13
Age : 52
Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....

PostSubject: Re: Tunics from the dead   Sat Aug 19, 2017 8:48 am

Hi,

I have read that is was part of the Zulu war doctoring to wear an item of clothing from someone they had killed (as well as the more documented mutilations etc) until they had returned home, then there was a doctoring ceremony to cleanse them - when I believe the 'item' was discarded.

They were not allowed contact with 'civvies' when returning from war until they had been 'doctored' - not even their wives.

I spose at Khambula, there could have been warriors wearing something taken at Hlobane or Intombi and at Rorkes Drift, something taken at Isandlwana but I doubt if things would have been worn long term.

I often wonder what happened to all the stuff looted from Isandlwana (not weapons but general 'tat') - I reckon an Antiques Roadshow programme set in Zululand would be interesting.

The Anatomy of the Zulu Army by Ian Knight, is a good book for this sort of subject - I will get it out of storage (the loft!) and look through it for contemporary accounts.

Cheers

Sime
Back to top Go down
Roselier

avatar

Posts : 15
Join date : 2017-08-04
Location : Leigh, Kent

PostSubject: Re: Tunics from the dead   Sat Aug 19, 2017 2:14 pm

That's actually one of the few books I don't own myself! You'd think it would be mentioned by someone if it did happen as surely you'd think twice, at first, about shooting someone wearing a red tunic!
Back to top Go down
SRB1965



Posts : 110
Join date : 2017-05-13
Age : 52
Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....

PostSubject: Re: Tunics from the dead   Sat Aug 19, 2017 2:43 pm

I can't help thinking that the average Zulu wearing a red coat, may well have carried a 'shoot at me' placard......

Back to top Go down
SRB1965



Posts : 110
Join date : 2017-05-13
Age : 52
Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....

PostSubject: Re: Tunics from the dead   Sat Aug 19, 2017 2:58 pm

There is reference on Morris's WOTS on page 524 (on line version) about someone called Harrison encountering 3 Zulus with captured coats......but I dunno the original source.

Lonsdale also mentions it when he rode into the camp at Isandlwana but that was in the aftermath of the battle.
Back to top Go down
Roselier

avatar

Posts : 15
Join date : 2017-08-04
Location : Leigh, Kent

PostSubject: Re: Tunics from the dead   Sat Aug 19, 2017 3:16 pm

Yes, immediately after a battle definitely. You would think that by wearing a red tunic in battle you would also run the risk of a 'friendly' stabbing or club to the bonce!
Back to top Go down
SRB1965



Posts : 110
Join date : 2017-05-13
Age : 52
Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....

PostSubject: Re: Tunics from the dead   Sat Aug 19, 2017 5:49 pm

I don't think that a Zulu in a redcoat, would be at too much risk from a friendly fire/swat incident.

Interestingly enough, the Natal Pioneers wore an old fashioned army surplus redcoat and the original plans/designs for the NNIC called for redcoats (and firearms) but this never came to fruition - one on the grounds of expense/supply and the other because of 'white' paranoia.....

If you think about there would have been an awful lot of Zulus hoofing around in all manner and colours of European items/coats soon after Isandlwana.

Apparently the Zulus did not like wearing items of clothing with too much blood on them.

Hlumula and qaqa (and war doctoring) are a fascinating part of Zulu warfare (well, I find them fascinating) but I am not sure how closely the rules were followed by the average Zulu - Melvill and Coghills bodies still had their jackets on but there is still debate over who killed them (Natal Zulus or Zululand Zulus)

Cheers

Sime

Back to top Go down
rusteze

avatar

Posts : 2192
Join date : 2010-06-02

PostSubject: Re: Tunics from the dead   Sat Aug 19, 2017 8:36 pm

Here's some evidence from my collection. But I think it has much more to do with army surplus than romantic ideas of battle trophies.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Steve
Back to top Go down
SRB1965



Posts : 110
Join date : 2017-05-13
Age : 52
Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....

PostSubject: Re: Tunics from the dead   Sat Aug 19, 2017 9:34 pm

Hi Steve,

I am no expert on uniforms but the tunic looks like old fashioned ones worn by the Natal Pioneers, particularly the cuff shape - although, it actually looks like what is called the 'jam pot' cuff, which was a later one (1880s?) - depends if there is a loop on the other side.

But I dunno about the lack of piping.....

Do you know the date of the photograph?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I have it in the back of my mind that the NPs had dragoon tunics but I am not sure if I have dreamed it.

Cheers

Sime
Back to top Go down
rusteze

avatar

Posts : 2192
Join date : 2010-06-02

PostSubject: Re: Tunics from the dead   Sat Aug 19, 2017 10:00 pm

This one is not directly dateable but the album in which it sits is 1875-1880. It indicates to me that worn out military clothing was commonplace. I am sure that had there been any suspicion of looting then the poor chap would not have survived long enough to have his picture taken. I would guess he is a Natal Zulu and I don't think he belongs to any military unit, could be NNC but I doubt it.

Steve
Back to top Go down
SRB1965



Posts : 110
Join date : 2017-05-13
Age : 52
Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....

PostSubject: Re: Tunics from the dead   Sat Aug 19, 2017 11:05 pm

He appears to be wearing a European type belt as well....I would reckon that you theory, Steve, is not far from the mark.....

Is there anything interesting on the remainder of the photo?

I'm sure I read somewhere that the initial plan to equip the NNIC with tunic was not helped by the fact that 'millet beer' had not helped the waistline of the natives......

Cheers

Sime
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Tunics from the dead   

Back to top Go down
 
Tunics from the dead
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 1

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM  :: GENERAL DISCUSSION AREA-
Jump to: