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Brev. Lt-Col. R.H. Buller, VC, Staff: 2/60th KRRC-Zungwini,Hlobane, Khambula, Ulundi
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 Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War

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rusteze

rusteze

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PostSubject: Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War   Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War EmptySat Jan 13, 2018 11:12 pm

It is well known that there was a public outcry at the losses at Isandhlwana and part of the response was to provide immediate charitable support to the widows and orphans of officers and men who had fallen. In due course, the administration and investment of the funds that had been collected for the families was taken up by The Royal Patriotic Fund (RPF). In 1895, when the RPF was being reorganised, a lengthy report was made to Parliament into the origins of the fund and how it was currently performing. The following information is extracted from that report.

Three separate funds had been set up prompted by the operations in Zululand. One at the Mansion House called the Zulu War Fund, and two by a committee of military, naval and militia officers namely the Isandhlwana and Rorke's Drift Fund and the Zulu War General Fund. In 1880 these funds were handed to the Commissioners of the RPF and amalgamated under the conditions of the Royal Warrant. The total amount of the fund that was handed over was £27,360. 17 shillings and 2 pence. From the inception of the fund in 1880 up to the end of 1894 the total sum expended in relief was £15,726 and 13 shillings. At the same time, through wise investment by the RPF, the capital sum had only fallen by £2,000. Another reason why the capital had been preserved is that orphaned daughters of those who had been killed (between the ages of 7 and 11) were placed in the Royal Victoria Patriotic Asylum at no cost to the Zulu War Fund. In the case of the Zulu War there were 28 such orphans.

The numbers placed in the Zulu War Fund was originally 10 widows of officers, 23 children of officers, 98 widows of other ranks and 138 children of other ranks. The scale of payments was, for the widows of officers (irrespective of rank), £30 per annum and for each child £7 per annum. And for other ranks, widows 3 shillings and sixpence per week and for each child 1 shilling per week. For the children of officers this was payable up to the age of 18 and for other ranks age 14 for boys and 16 for girls. In 1892 the rates for widows and children of other ranks was increased (but complicated further). The widow of a private received 5 shillings per week, of a corporal 5 shillings and sixpence, of a sergeant 6 shillings, of a colour sergeant six shillings and sixpence, and of a sergeant major 7 shillings. Likewise, the orphan of a private or corporal got 2 shillings, and above that rank 2 shillings and sixpence.

If a widow re-married the allowances ceased but she was given £5 as a lump sum. That rule was revoked in 1893 when allowances were restored.

By 1898 10 widows had died, 7 had been struck off for misconduct, 2 received temporary allowances, 54 had re-married and 25 remained.

There is an enormous amount of information still contained in the papers of the RPF. When Mary Ann Weatherhead, the widow of my ancestor, died in Farnborough in 1941 she was said to be the last surviving pensioner of the Zulu War Fund.

Stephen Reinstadtler
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90th

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PostSubject: Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War   Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War EmptySun Jan 14, 2018 1:22 am

Hi Steve
Excellent post , thanks for sharing it , I've never seen any breakdown of the fund/ funds previously .
90th agree
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ymob

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PostSubject: Re: Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War   Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War EmptySun Jan 14, 2018 7:54 am

Bonjour Steve,
Excellent!
Please, where are the papers of the RPF?
I search informations about one of the widows who was in S.A in 1879.
Amitié
Fred
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rusteze

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PostSubject: Re: Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War   Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War EmptySun Jan 14, 2018 12:29 pm

Bonjour Fred

There are over 200 sets of records for the RPF at the National Archives at Kew and there are annual reports to parliament by the commissioners. The information in my post comes from the report to parliament of the select committee in July 1895 (I have a copy). However, I have not yet found any administrative records that give individual names of recipients for the AZW - they may well exist but if they do they are buried in the archives. To give a flavour of what might be found, I attach examples of cases refused in 1893/95. Another real gem is a list of Light Brigade survivors in the same period with addresses. Note that the RPF was originally established to invest and administer the charitable donations made by the public for Crimean War veterans and their families - this continued throughout the late 19th century and beyond and covered many other military adventures (both army and navy) - so the records are not just about the AZW. For example, it is interesting to note that the Afghan War Fund had only attracted £7,000 in public donations and by 1895 was extinct. That underlines the degree of public feeling there undoubtedly was following Isandhlwana which attracted four times as much money.

Just proves there is so much more to find!

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Steve Reinstadtler
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ymob

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PostSubject: Re: Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War   Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War EmptySun Jan 14, 2018 3:48 pm

Bonjour Steve,
It's very interesting, indeed.
Thank You for your answer, much apreciated.
Incidentally, when I worked on the wrecked camp's essay, I checked in thé letters written by LC's soldiers if your ancestror was quoted: Without success unfortunately.
Amitié
Fred
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ymob

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PostSubject: Re: Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War   Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War EmptySun Jan 14, 2018 3:58 pm

Maybe Mr Whybra checked also the name of your ancestror, i don't know!
Fred
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rusteze

rusteze

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PostSubject: Re: Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War   Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War EmptySun Jan 14, 2018 4:21 pm

Thanks Fred. I am going to Kew on Wednesday (POT please note) to see what I can find.

Steve
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90th

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PostSubject: Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War   Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War EmptyMon Jan 15, 2018 4:11 am

Hi Steve
Excellent find the Light Brigade page . Cant wait to see what you may unearth after your trip on wednesday . Shocked Shocked agree agree
90th
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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War   Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War EmptyMon Jan 15, 2018 6:32 am

Hi Steve
In a former life I was in the 11th Hussars and for a time was 'volunteered' to work as a bar man in the mess. In the bar store room were a whole lot of regimental records, including journals etc dating back to the Crimean war. Suprisingly they just sat around on open shelves gathering dust. I spent many hours trolling through them and was told at one point I could get rid of them. I wish now I had done just that, could look good sitting in my bookcase.
'Not a lot of people know that'
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rusteze

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PostSubject: Re: Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War   Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War EmptyMon Jan 15, 2018 11:06 am

Morning

Mountains of records never make it to the archives. I have myself sat for many hours reviewing material for preservation and it is not possible to do more than look at the title of an old file and in a few seconds decide to keep or destroy. 85% would be shredded at the first review and there would be another go 10 years later before anything was sent to Kew - it would then be embargoed for 30 years, much longer if it was classified. So what we find preserved at Kew is just a skim off the top of what once existed.

I had forgotten you are an old Cherry-Bum, you must tell us sometime what it was really like at Balaclava.

Steve
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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War   Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War EmptyMon Jan 15, 2018 11:29 am

Bit chilly, could have used a better Cardigan agree
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90th

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PostSubject: Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War   Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War EmptyMon Jan 15, 2018 11:31 am

I didnt see an Allewell on the Charger Survivor list ??? , seems Spurious to me ! , I see Kohli is holding together for the Indians Frank. Shocked Shocked
90th agree
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90th

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PostSubject: Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War   Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War EmptyMon Jan 15, 2018 11:32 am

Oh Lordy Lordy Frank .
90th
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rusteze

rusteze

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PostSubject: Re: Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War   Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War EmptyMon Jan 15, 2018 11:41 am

Here's proof. Is it you on the horse or with the cummerbund?

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Steve
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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War   Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War EmptyMon Jan 15, 2018 11:50 am

This is more topical:
"At the meeting of the Royal Patriotic Fund Corporation in London last week Mr. Hayes Fisher, M.P., who presided, said that the last pensioned survivor of the Charge of the Light Brigade died on the previous day. His name was Thomas Warr."
Laugh you may but I was in that movie at Greenwich. There were very few original uniforms left, altered over many years so it was only the shortest of the regiment that could wear them, around twenty or so of us were seconded to the film shoot.
Salute Sar!
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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War   Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War EmptyMon Jan 15, 2018 11:51 am

forgot to add, I still have mine, but its shrunk...................
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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War   Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War EmptyMon Jan 15, 2018 11:52 am

Kohli is out, at last.
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rusteze

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PostSubject: Re: Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War   Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War EmptyMon Jan 15, 2018 12:09 pm

Great film - I have the brochure.

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Steve
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90th

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PostSubject: Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War   Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War EmptyTue Jan 16, 2018 2:41 am

Hi Frank
Were you in the actual movie ?? , Sorry , I thought you were in the ORIGINAL charge ! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA . I'm about to check your Score .
90th Salute Joker Joker Joker Joker
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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War   Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War EmptyTue Jan 16, 2018 4:57 am

I shall ignore that remark young Aussie.
Rain stopped play, todays going to be in the mid thirty range so should be n interesting day. Kohli yesterday was back to full magnificent form.
By the way going back to a question you posed.
Warne, Mcgrath, Gillespie and Lee. Gonna take some beating.

Cheers
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90th

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PostSubject: Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War   Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War EmptyTue Jan 16, 2018 9:37 am

Hi Frank
I saw you lost 2 / 7 recently , it's now day 4 isnt it ? , might be very interesting if there isn't much of a delay ! . Mcgrath , Gillespie & Lee were good , Starc , if he stays fit ...will have a better record than Mcgrath , and the other two will also have better records than Gillespie & Lee in time , if they stay fit , that's the sticking point . Poor Paul Naish is covered in tick bites so he tells me while trying to find Macleroy's grave , he had two attempts but no cigar !
90th Shocked Shocked
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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War   Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War EmptyTue Jan 16, 2018 9:48 am

Tick bites aren't funny, nasty bloody things. Ive tried on a few occasions to find Macleroys headstone. I should say re-find it. Its under a thorn tree these days and difficult to spot, even with a GPS.
3 wickets down this morning, overall lead is 198, still in the first session day 4. Looking forward to an interesting afternoon.

Cheers mate
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90th

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PostSubject: Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War   Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War EmptyTue Jan 16, 2018 9:52 am

I found Macleroy last May , he wasn't amongst a thorn tree back then , he was in a small clearing .Certainly interesting time in the Test . Very Happy Very Happy
90th Salute Salute
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PostSubject: Re: Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War   Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War EmptyTue Jan 16, 2018 10:11 am

Yeah when I photographed it a couple of years back it was clear, cant remember who it was on the forum mentioned the thorn tree.
If we can get around 250 it could be a winning score, the pitch is starting to spin like hell. I'm heading home for the afternoon session.

Cheers
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rusteze

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PostSubject: Re: Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War   Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War EmptyTue Jan 16, 2018 4:07 pm

Ngidi!!!
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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War   Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War EmptyTue Jan 16, 2018 5:35 pm

The kids one for the future, big time Steve. 6 ft 5 tall and built. I'm taking tomorrow of to spend the day watching. Sod the office. Lungi, KG Rabada, Maharaj and Philanda.
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rusteze

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PostSubject: Re: Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War   Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War EmptyTue Jan 16, 2018 5:47 pm

I felt the one into the ribs - even from here!

Steve
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90th

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PostSubject: Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War   Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War EmptyWed Jan 17, 2018 8:25 am

Hi Frank
Game over , I can hear the big lass from here ! Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
90th Joker Joker
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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War   Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War EmptyWed Jan 17, 2018 9:44 am

Ive just booked for the Port Elizabeth test as well Gary. Think about it, 8 World class bowlers operating, class batsmen, just cant afford not to see it on three different pitches. So Durban, PE and Cape Town. Still thinking bout the Wanderers for the last one, not if I should go or not but what excuse I give to my wife? Tricky one?
So much cricket so little time ( Sorry CJ Rhodes ). Very Happy agree
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90th

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PostSubject: Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War   Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War EmptyWed Jan 17, 2018 9:56 am

Frank as they say or said in the classics ...... '' Someone's gotta do it '' ! , or wait till the Aussies get there , see two or three of those Tests ????
90th Shocked Shocked
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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War   Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War EmptyWed Jan 17, 2018 10:46 am

Booked for three Gary. If both teams play to their potential its going to be one of those series people will be talking about for years to come. Have to be part of it. Honestly if it was going to be in Aussie I would have flown over for it.
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PostSubject: Re: Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War   Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War EmptyWed Jan 17, 2018 7:28 pm

First find on this subject from Kew today. Chelmsford had become one of the Commissioners for the RPF - this entry shows his intervention on a claim from Cecile Leparra, the wife of his French chef killed at Isandhlwana. I wonder what happened to Cecile?
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Steve Reinstadtler
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ymob

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PostSubject: Re: Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War   Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War EmptyWed Jan 17, 2018 8:06 pm

I wonder if Princess Eugénie (who apparently was generous) helped her...
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rusteze

rusteze

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Join date : 2010-06-02

Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War Empty
PostSubject: Re: Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War   Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War EmptyThu Jan 18, 2018 11:50 am

It is clear from the records that the Royal Patriotic Fund exercised complete control over the orphans placed in their boarding schools. They seem extremely authoritarian to our eyes, but by the standards of the time I guess they were no more so than other Victorian boarding schools. However, this extract setting out the terms under which girls at the Royal Victoria Patriotic Asylum would be allowed home once every year seem positively Dickensian. Before this they had not been allowed to go home at all! Just imagine the impact on the widows who had little choice in the matter if they were to draw on the funds available to them.
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I have to say too that letting Chelmsford become a Commissioner and exercise a degree of control over the widows and orphans he played no small part in creating seems like rubbing salt in the wound!

Steve Reinstadtler
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Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War Empty
PostSubject: Re: Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War   Widows and Orphans of the Zulu War Empty

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