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Brev. Lt-Col. R.H. Buller, VC, Staff: 2/60th KRRC-Zungwini,Hlobane, Khambula, Ulundi
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rusteze

rusteze

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Isandhlwana casualties effects. Empty
PostSubject: Isandhlwana casualties effects.   Isandhlwana casualties effects. EmptyMon Apr 02, 2018 10:55 am

Browsing through the lists of Isandhlwana casualties in the Noble 24th it struck me that quite a large percentage had their effects claimed by next of kin. How does that square, I wonder, with what we are told about the great difficulties of identifying individuals on the battlefield and the chaos of clothes and equipment strewn all about?

Steve Reinstadtler
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SRB1965

SRB1965

Posts : 686
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Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....

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PostSubject: Re: Isandhlwana casualties effects.   Isandhlwana casualties effects. EmptyMon Apr 02, 2018 12:14 pm

Hi Steve

Would it be the effects, stored in the barracks in the UK or elsewhere in Africa - home base so to speak?

Or maybe outstanding pay?

Ta

Sime
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rusteze

rusteze

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PostSubject: Re: Isandhlwana casualties effects.   Isandhlwana casualties effects. EmptyMon Apr 02, 2018 12:32 pm

Hi Sime.

You might be right, but I should have thought the average private would have little by way of effects anyway, and the 1st Battalion had been in SA for some time, so it seems unlikely that anything of theirs was kept back in UK. I imagine a few photographs and letters was it for many men and it seems to me they would more likely keep such things with them. Officers are a different kettle of fish of course. It just struck me how many are noted as having their effects claimed. What record did Norman Holmes study to ascertain that individuals effects had been claimed I wonder?

Steve
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SRB1965

SRB1965

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Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....

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PostSubject: Re: Isandhlwana casualties effects.   Isandhlwana casualties effects. EmptyMon Apr 02, 2018 1:07 pm

Hi Steve,

I would have thought that soldiers had some kind of foot locker, that contained (maybe) books or a bible, writing equipment and other things that the soldiers had collected.....earlier (in Napoleonic times) you hear of soldiers acquiring bird cages etc......

I suppose, they could buy things to supplement their kit.

There must have been some kind of paybook, which recorded outstanding pay - did that record who claimed the medal, pay or effects of casualties?

I have seen soldiers records for WWI but never any for the ZW period but such records must have existed somewhere - as far as I can remember, Holmes (in the Silver Wreath) records the soldiers religion in some records + occasionally basic descriptions.

Cheers

Sime
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John Young

John Young

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PostSubject: Re: Isandhlwana casualties effects.   Isandhlwana casualties effects. EmptyMon Apr 02, 2018 2:00 pm

The Pay & Muster Rolls contain details of soldiers that became Non-Effective it also includes the details and in some cases the address of the next-of-kin to whom the effects were forwarded.

Where a deceased soldier’s outstanding pay went unclaimed a notice was published in order that any possible claimants could state their claim on it.

Deceased Officers were as Steve puts it a different kettle of fish, their effects would auctioned to raise funds for the families.

JY
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rusteze

rusteze

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PostSubject: Re: Isandhlwana casualties effects.   Isandhlwana casualties effects. EmptyMon Apr 02, 2018 3:23 pm

John

From what I have seen the P&M Rolls that exist for the 1/24th are pretty skant when it comes to next of kin, and of course the ones in current use at the time were lost at Isandhlwana. For that reason I am assuming (perhaps wrongly) that they could not have been used to record non-effectiveness of Isandhlwana casualties or the calculation of pay owing. And yet something must have been completed if only for purely accounting reasons (which, for the army, is the prime consideration) - perhaps since destroyed. Are we thinking then that Holmes got it all from P&M Rolls?

Steve
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John Young

John Young

Posts : 1880
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PostSubject: Re: Isandhlwana casualties effects.   Isandhlwana casualties effects. EmptyMon Apr 02, 2018 4:37 pm

Steve,

As far as I can recall from my period of research back in 1988-90 the Non-Effective pages of the 2nd/24th Pay & Muster Rolls for at least the two quarters that follow the loss of the previous roll contain some details of casualties sustained at iSandlwana.

Have you checked the subsequent Non-Effective pages for 1st Battalion?

JY
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rusteze

rusteze

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PostSubject: Re: Isandhlwana casualties effects.   Isandhlwana casualties effects. EmptyMon Apr 02, 2018 5:03 pm

That may be the answer John. I will check when I go again. I see they are introducing parking charges at Kew shortly. Came to nought last time but I think it will happen now. Annoys me intensely when it is so awkward to get there by public transport.

Steve
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John Young

John Young

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PostSubject: Re: Isandhlwana casualties effects.   Isandhlwana casualties effects. EmptyMon Apr 02, 2018 5:34 pm

Steve,

I have been digging around in some of my files. Take a look at The London Gazette of 3rd February 1880, from Page 509 onwards under Soldiers’ Balances Unclaimed you might find some names there that you will recognise, although there are some variations with spelling and in some cases the rank given. It is available online at The London Gazette’s website.

It been sometime since I last visited Kew but it used to take me the best part of three hours to get there from here. I never minded the walk from the tube station as there used to be a South African butchers on way there.

JY



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