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Captain David Moriarity, 80th, KIA Ntombe
This photograph taken when he was in the 7th Regiment prior to his transfer to the 80th. [Mac & Shad] (Isandula Collection)
The Battle of Isandlwana: One of The Worst Defeats of The British Empire - Military History
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 Queen Victoria at Crystal Palace

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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Queen Victoria at Crystal Palace   Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:02 am

Ive come across a reference that Queen Victoria entertained the Mothers and Daughters along with returning soldiers of the Zulu wars. Does anyone have any information on the event that took place at Crystal Palace.

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PostSubject: Re: Queen Victoria at Crystal Palace   Thu Aug 30, 2018 11:43 am

Can't see anything in The Times archive. Do we have a date?
Steve
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PostSubject: Re: Queen Victoria at Crystal Palace   Thu Aug 30, 2018 12:15 pm

Steve
This the quote:
'The proudest day of my grandmas life was the day Queen Victoria entertained the Mothers and widows along with the Zulu war heroes at Crystal Palace when they returned to England.'
This particular ladies husband was on the December troopship to Bermuda and to England
He wrote a letter from Bermuda in May 1880.
I believe William Annable of the 99th returned to SA for the Boer War, I don't know if my man did. I cant locate any mention of it and he makes no diary mention either.

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PostSubject: Re: Queen Victoria at Crystal Palace   Thu Aug 30, 2018 3:18 pm

The only reference I can find is a Soldiers and Sailors Banquet for the returning forces from the AZW which was held at Portsmouth and reported in the Graphic on 1 November 1879.

I have looked at the South London Press archive, which is the local paper for Crystal Palace, but no trace. It occurs to me that Crystal Palace is a bit of an unlikely venue for such a gathering - not near any barracks and damned difficult for troops and families to get to. They would need to take a train from central London. But your letter seems very clear, so a bit of a mystery.

Steve
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PostSubject: Re: Queen Victoria at Crystal Palace   Thu Aug 30, 2018 3:26 pm

Steve I have a feeling ive seen a sketch of the Queen talking t a bunch of soldiers, just a dim memory. Im busy checking the library, both books. Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Queen Victoria at Crystal Palace   Thu Aug 30, 2018 3:29 pm

Actually I think the sketch I had in mind was at Windsor presenting medals.
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PostSubject: Re: Queen Victoria at Crystal Palace   Thu Aug 30, 2018 3:33 pm

There's a sketch at Windsor presenting the recovered colours.
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PostSubject: Re: Queen Victoria at Crystal Palace   Thu Aug 30, 2018 5:50 pm

Frank,

That’s from The Graphic in December 1879, Queen Victoria is presenting the DCM to Colour-Sergeant Smith of the 90th.  Mistakenly the accompanying text states it is Corporal - by then L/Sergeant - Allan receiving his V.C.

Sorry away from my books so I can’t be precise.

JY
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PostSubject: Re: Queen Victoria at Crystal Palace   Thu Aug 30, 2018 9:38 pm

Frank

I had a look at Orchard's story that you posted before Xmas last. A couple of things strike me as relevant to the Crystal Palace question. First, it is his mother who is being quoted by his daughter (ie her Grandmother) and the reference clearly says Crystal Palace "in London" - which is pretty unequivocal. I note from Orchard's service papers that he went directly to Bermuda leaving SA at the end of December 1879. From Bermuda he returned directly to SA in 1881 until 1 April 1882 and his home service starts on 2 April 1882. So did his mother attend festivities at Crystal Palace while her son was in Bermuda (seems unlikely), or was there a celebration on the return of the 99th in April 1882?

Steve
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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Queen Victoria at Crystal Palace   Fri Aug 31, 2018 10:17 am

Steve theres a couple of things wrong in the journal. Williams dad was still alive and kicking when he was 10 years old, 1871 census, his dad was a greengrocer and draper and 53 at the time.
Looking carefully at the entry edith has written 'In London' below the Crystal Palace. I wonder if she was possibly correcting the entry?
If that hypothesis works then could she have been referring to one of the gatherings at Windsor?
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PostSubject: Re: Queen Victoria at Crystal Palace   Fri Aug 31, 2018 10:37 am

Yes, it's open to interpretation but I haven't heard Windsor described as "in London". It does surprise me, given there were over 100 widows, that no one else seems to have mentioned a gathering. And does "Zulu War heroes" just mean a select few?
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PostSubject: Re: Queen Victoria at Crystal Palace   Fri Aug 31, 2018 10:47 am

The only places that readily spring to mind where Queen Victoria met with or came anywhere near returned soldiers were Netley Hospital, Windsor Castle, Chislehurst, Balmoral and Osborne House none which are in London.

Personally I can’t see her travelling to Penge.

JY

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PostSubject: Re: Queen Victoria at Crystal Palace   Fri Aug 31, 2018 11:07 am

By the 1880's Crystal Palace was getting a bit seedy, with monthly dog and cat shows. We South Londoners knew what entertainment was!

Steve
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PostSubject: Re: Queen Victoria at Crystal Palace   Fri Aug 31, 2018 11:50 am

Steve as a thought. if you were a downstairs maid living out in Derbyshire wouldn't every thing to the South be classified as London?
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PostSubject: Re: Queen Victoria at Crystal Palace   Fri Aug 31, 2018 11:51 am

As a kid growing up in Northern Lancashire ( Now Cumbria) the edge of the world was just south of Blackpool
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PostSubject: Re: Queen Victoria at Crystal Palace   Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:17 pm

Frank Allewell wrote:
Steve
This the quote:
'The proudest day of my grandmas life was the day Queen Victoria entertained the Mothers and widows along with the Zulu war heroes at Crystal Palace when they returned to England.'
This particular ladies husband was on the December troopship to Bermuda and to England
He wrote a letter from Bermuda in May 1880.
I believe William Annable of the 99th returned to SA for the Boer War, I don't know if my man did. I cant locate any mention of it and he makes no diary mention either.

Cheers

Frank,
I wonder if the "banquet" was organized under the patronage of the Queen (not in the presence of the Queen).
Just a thought.
Amitié
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rusteze

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PostSubject: Re: Queen Victoria at Crystal Palace   Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:28 pm

Frank
I am still more inclined to think that "in London" is a clarification of where Crystal Palace was - which isn't obvious from its title. It's west of Blackpool that is the end of the known world isn't it?

Fred
You might be right about QV's patronage rather than attendance.

Just noticed that the 99th disembarked at Purfleet in 1882 and Orchard was subsequently at Woolwich - perfect for Crystal Palace. I think it was something organised for the 99th around that time - his mother might have been there to meet the boat.

Steve
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PostSubject: Re: Queen Victoria at Crystal Palace   Fri Aug 31, 2018 4:17 pm

Cetewayo intented to visit Crystal Palace in August 1882.
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PostSubject: Re: Queen Victoria at Crystal Palace   Fri Aug 31, 2018 7:35 pm

Not that it solves the problem, but this is a huge bolt from the wrought iron frame of the 1852 Crystal Palace at Sydenham. My grandmother "acquired" it when the Palace burned down and it has been used as a door stop in any number of family households ever since - I am the current proud owner!
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Steve
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PostSubject: Re: Queen Victoria at Crystal Palace   Sat Sep 01, 2018 11:31 pm

No, the Colours 1/24th were presented at Osborne House on the Isle of Wight on 28 July 1880. The presentation of ZW medals on 9 December 1879 at Windsor Castle.
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