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Zulu: Lieutenant John Chard:What's our strength? Lieutenant Gonville Bromhead:Seven officers including surgeon, commissaries and so on; Adendorff now I suppose; wounded and sick 36, fit for duty 97 and about 40 native levies. Not much of an army for you
 
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 A simple question, who is this?

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John Young

John Young

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A simple question, who is this? Empty
PostSubject: A simple question, who is this?   A simple question, who is this? EmptyFri Nov 23, 2018 6:40 am

As the heading says, a simple question, who is this?

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JY
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SRB1965

SRB1965

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Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....

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PostSubject: Re: A simple question, who is this?   A simple question, who is this? EmptyFri Nov 23, 2018 6:48 am

Hi John,

I honestly don't know......I thought I knew but if I know I'm sure you would have known, so therefore I have the inkling that it isn't who I thought it was.....

But to be honest I always had concerns that it wasn't him.....the face didn't fit.....but with my notorious eyesight......

Ta

Sime

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ymob

ymob

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PostSubject: Re: A simple question, who is this?   A simple question, who is this? EmptyFri Nov 23, 2018 7:59 am

Bonjour,
Physically, he looks like to a member of the Mpande family.
The photograph was taken in the studio of a photograph: John, do you know when and where the photograph was taken?

in the past Steve had also suggested a doubt about a photograph supposed to represent Cetewayo.
John you had to inquire about this from the Royal family....
Kind regards
Frédéric
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ymob

ymob

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PostSubject: Re: A simple question, who is this?   A simple question, who is this? EmptyFri Nov 23, 2018 8:11 am

...and who was the author of the photograph (If he was Bassano for example, that's help!).
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John Young

John Young

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PostSubject: Re: A simple question, who is this?   A simple question, who is this? EmptyFri Nov 23, 2018 8:30 am

Frederic,

Delve into those newspapers again, and hunt for the Île de Sainte-Hélène maison de Napoléon...

No it is not a Bassano.  It is an exterior shot, rather than one taken in a studio, the backdrop resembles a sailcloth.

You could be up to your neck in clues.  I could even tell you to stick at it.

I have indeed discussed the photograph with senior members of the Zulu Royal House, and a very senior member - who appeared in that film - endorsed my conclusion.

Some very august organisations have been duped, and that’s all I’m saying for now.

JY
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ymob

ymob

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PostSubject: Re: A simple question, who is this?   A simple question, who is this? EmptyFri Nov 23, 2018 8:46 am

John,
Intriguing ("Some very august organisations have been duped")...
I mistakenly assumed that the sailcloth was meant to hide a European decor from a studio (or a boat)while the warrior is dressed "in native" (see no offense).
Cheers
Fred
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ymob

ymob

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PostSubject: Re: A simple question, who is this?   A simple question, who is this? EmptyFri Nov 23, 2018 8:54 am

There is a link between Zulu gravures dated 1892 (Jamestown ) and the Ile of Saint Helène...
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ymob

ymob

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PostSubject: Re: A simple question, who is this?   A simple question, who is this? EmptyFri Nov 23, 2018 8:58 am

It's either Dinizulu or Nabuku.
I think it's Nabuku.
Fred
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John Young

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PostSubject: Re: A simple question, who is this?   A simple question, who is this? EmptyFri Nov 23, 2018 9:00 am

Indeed there is. For therein is the answer to the question.

JY
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ymob

ymob

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PostSubject: Re: A simple question, who is this?   A simple question, who is this? EmptyFri Nov 23, 2018 9:02 am

John,
Thank you very much for the information.
Fred
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John Young

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PostSubject: Re: A simple question, who is this?   A simple question, who is this? EmptyFri Nov 23, 2018 9:04 am

Frederic,

Become a Belgian for a moment in time and work those little grey cells, which of the two holds the same stick in the engraving that appears in the photograph?

JY
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ymob

ymob

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PostSubject: Re: A simple question, who is this?   A simple question, who is this? EmptyFri Nov 23, 2018 9:15 am

John,
It seems to me that it's Dinizulu.
The stick in the Nabuko's hand has not a "round handle".
"L'Illustration", 13 Août 1892.
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John Young

John Young

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PostSubject: Re: A simple question, who is this?   A simple question, who is this? EmptyFri Nov 23, 2018 9:45 am

Frederic,

The engraving is based on another photograph that was taken at the same time of Prince Ndabuko kaMpande, the younger full brother of King Cetshwayo kaMpande.

The necklace is clearly evident in Who’s Who in the Zulu War 1879 - Volume II, photograph No. 40.

Prince Ndabuko fought at the Battle of iSandlwana, serving in the uMbonambi ibutho.

The photograph I posted appears in reverse in Rope of Sand photograph No. 72, which correctly identifies the sitter as Prince Ndabuko.

Now the simple task of correcting all of those misidentifications on the web! To arms!

JY
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ymob

ymob

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PostSubject: Re: A simple question, who is this?   A simple question, who is this? EmptyFri Nov 23, 2018 9:56 am

John,
Thank you for the sources given.
Not only on the web! (I.E: I am unforgivable I have a copy of the two books quoted)...
Fred
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: A simple question, who is this?   A simple question, who is this? EmptyFri Nov 23, 2018 10:29 am

John start with the Zuluculture site itself that has it as Cetswayo
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John Young

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PostSubject: Re: A simple question, who is this?   A simple question, who is this? EmptyFri Nov 23, 2018 1:07 pm

Frank,

Which site is that?

I allowed Frederic to become French again in his guise of Maigret, and I as Clouseau we combined forces to discover this magnificent photograph in the Wellcome Collection. It is this image that was reproduced as an engraving in 1892.

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King Dinuzulu kaCetshwayo & Prince Ndabuko kaMpande.
Wellcome Collection.

JY
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: A simple question, who is this?   A simple question, who is this? EmptyFri Nov 23, 2018 1:27 pm

JY
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ymob

ymob

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PostSubject: Re: A simple question, who is this?   A simple question, who is this? EmptyFri Nov 23, 2018 1:28 pm

To be honest, Maigret was distraught on this accursed island of St. Helena (Poor Napoléon!), it is Clouseau who made all the work and who discovered this photograph that I had never seen before...
Fred
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John Young

John Young

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PostSubject: Re: A simple question, who is this?   A simple question, who is this? EmptyFri Nov 23, 2018 2:21 pm

Frank,

Broadside fired...

JY
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: A simple question, who is this?   A simple question, who is this? EmptyFri Nov 23, 2018 3:04 pm

Just below the gunnels hopefully
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John Young

John Young

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PostSubject: Re: A simple question, who is this?   A simple question, who is this? EmptyFri Nov 23, 2018 3:19 pm

A pity it wasn’t another site with a similar name...
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: A simple question, who is this?   A simple question, who is this? EmptyFri Nov 23, 2018 5:14 pm

Slow down Clouseau you going get our Aussie mate all worked up in a sweat.
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John Young

John Young

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PostSubject: Re: A simple question, who is this?   A simple question, who is this? EmptyFri Nov 23, 2018 5:46 pm

I wondered why he keeps going to KZN... scratch
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