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Zulu: Lieutenant John Chard:What's our strength? Lieutenant Gonville Bromhead:Seven officers including surgeon, commissaries and so on; Adendorff now I suppose; wounded and sick 36, fit for duty 97 and about 40 native levies. Not much of an army for you
 
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 Boy Daniel Gordon 1491

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Ed M



Posts : 7
Join date : 2020-01-20

Boy Daniel Gordon 1491 Empty
PostSubject: Boy Daniel Gordon 1491   Boy Daniel Gordon 1491 EmptyTue Jan 21, 2020 5:04 pm

I am curious if anyone knows where in the UK "Boy" Daniel Gordon 1491 was from. I have a lot of Gordon's in my family tree and wondering if he might be related. Thank you.
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Tim Needham

Tim Needham

Posts : 215
Join date : 2011-10-18

Boy Daniel Gordon 1491 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Boy Daniel Gordon 1491   Boy Daniel Gordon 1491 EmptyTue Jan 21, 2020 9:03 pm

It appears that Daniel Gordon was once an inmate at the Watford Workhouse, as I have a newspaper report from the 1960s which reports on the imminent demolition of the workhouse chapel:

With the Chapel will go several memorial plaques which are reminders of the old workhouse days. These include one in memory of two workhouse boys who were probably the only inmates who ever had an official memorial of any sort.
It recalls that the two boys, James Gurney and Daniel Gordon, were both aged 16, and "who, after being educated in this house, joined the band of the 24th Regiment and fell in the service of their country at the Battle of Isandulare in Zululand, January 22, 1879"


Despite extensive enquiries regarding the whereabouts of the plaque in the local area, I've been unable to track it down.

Regards,

Tim


Last edited by Tim Needham on Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Julian Whybra



Posts : 2278
Join date : 2011-09-12

Boy Daniel Gordon 1491 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Boy Daniel Gordon 1491   Boy Daniel Gordon 1491 EmptyWed Jan 22, 2020 10:33 am

It seems that we have duplicated each other's work. I too spent some time several years back trying to track down this plaque!
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Tim Needham

Tim Needham

Posts : 215
Join date : 2011-10-18

Boy Daniel Gordon 1491 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Boy Daniel Gordon 1491   Boy Daniel Gordon 1491 EmptyThu Jan 23, 2020 8:01 pm

Hello Julian,

I imagine we both spent quite a bit of time contacting the local churches and museums as well as Watford General Hospital which now occupies the site of the workhouse - it's such a shame to think that this memorial has been mislaid or worse still simply disposed of;  it would be nice to think that it will turn up again one day!

The missing plaque was the reason for having a memorial commemorating all the 24th's Boys erected in the museum at Brecon (photo in graves section).

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Regards,

Tim
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Ed M



Posts : 7
Join date : 2020-01-20

Boy Daniel Gordon 1491 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Boy Daniel Gordon 1491   Boy Daniel Gordon 1491 EmptyThu Jan 23, 2020 8:55 pm

I wonder if it the same Daniel Gordon who was born in Scotland and family moved to Greenwich area of London then went into a workhouse as destitute at age 8?
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Julian Whybra



Posts : 2278
Join date : 2011-09-12

Boy Daniel Gordon 1491 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Boy Daniel Gordon 1491   Boy Daniel Gordon 1491 EmptyFri Jan 24, 2020 9:08 am

Date of birth?
Which workhouse and year of entry?
Reasoning for a path from Greenwich to Watford?
Will all help answer your question!
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Julian Whybra



Posts : 2278
Join date : 2011-09-12

Boy Daniel Gordon 1491 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Boy Daniel Gordon 1491   Boy Daniel Gordon 1491 EmptyFri Jan 24, 2020 10:29 am

To help you:
25B/1491 Boy Daniel Gordon: 2/24th, attested 6th December 1875 aged 13 making him 16 on 22nd January 1879.
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

Posts : 7445
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 73
Location : Cape Town South Africa

Boy Daniel Gordon 1491 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Boy Daniel Gordon 1491   Boy Daniel Gordon 1491 EmptyFri Jan 24, 2020 2:19 pm

Only one answer to that Julian: " Happy birthday to you, happy birthday to you.................
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Ed M



Posts : 7
Join date : 2020-01-20

Boy Daniel Gordon 1491 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Boy Daniel Gordon 1491   Boy Daniel Gordon 1491 EmptyFri Jan 24, 2020 2:29 pm

From what I can tell he entered the workhouse in Sept. 1871 as destitute, not sure of name yet. Documents handwritten and hard to read. On an early 1871 census a father is listed but looks later that he may have died. Still searching but records hard to find. Would love to find enlistment records.
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Julian Whybra



Posts : 2278
Join date : 2011-09-12

Boy Daniel Gordon 1491 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Boy Daniel Gordon 1491   Boy Daniel Gordon 1491 EmptyFri Jan 24, 2020 2:51 pm

Well the dates fit. Depending on his exact birthday (thank you Frank) the 13-year old who attested in 1875 COULD have been your 8-year old entering the workhouse in 1871.
If your reference to him in the workhouse comes from the 1871 census, that took place on the night of 2nd April.
Perhaps locating the workhouse records would provide you with an answer.
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Ed M



Posts : 7
Join date : 2020-01-20

Boy Daniel Gordon 1491 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Boy Daniel Gordon 1491   Boy Daniel Gordon 1491 EmptyFri Jan 24, 2020 4:00 pm

Researching him is fun. Looks like he was possibly born in July of 1862 and first record I can find of him in a workhouse is Feb 28,1871. Name of workhouse isn't clear...I'm still digging!!
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Kenny



Posts : 395
Join date : 2013-05-07
Location : Brecon

Boy Daniel Gordon 1491 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Boy Daniel Gordon 1491   Boy Daniel Gordon 1491 EmptySat Jan 25, 2020 9:02 am

Ed,

The Watford authorities/historians must have had evidence to record Gurney and Gordon on te plaque at the old town workshop. Perhaps Hertfordshire Archives at Hertford can help. I remember the old workhouse block as my mother worked as nursing sister at Shrodells Hospital (now Watford General Hospital) which was build behind the old block.

The main difficulties is that as an orphan, there is going to be little accurate information, there were no parents to backup vital data - date place of birth, parents names - and of course supporting paper documentation.

I suppose the one of the key events in Daniel's short life is April 1871 census. There is a Daniel Gordon listed as one of the inmates at the Brighton Road School at Sutton. This was a collecting institution for various workhouses in the area. Originally built for about 850 children in 1850s, after a fire in early 1870s the size was increased to 1,318. His name is also shown Greenwich Workhouses of the same period. Not all workhouse records have been digitalised to be available on-line. My initial guess is that this family in 1871 was Ellen Gordon (31), daughter Elizabeth (11), sons Daniel (8) and William (7). There is no father (dead? or moved away) and I think the mother Ellen must have died in early 1870s. So the family link has to be through William. It would be interesting know the link between Greenwich and Watford. They are quite a way apart.

The army was a second family for Daniel, provided food, clothes and importantly education.
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Ed M



Posts : 7
Join date : 2020-01-20

Boy Daniel Gordon 1491 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Boy Daniel Gordon 1491   Boy Daniel Gordon 1491 EmptySat Jan 25, 2020 1:50 pm

Thank you Kenny for your help. I will try the Hertfordshire Archives but it's true about limited information available. It is looking like he is an ancestor just have to dig more to see where he fits into the family tree. I will have to search also for pictures of any medals etc he may have been awarded. I am seeing many different stories on how he and other "Boys" died.
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Julian Whybra



Posts : 2278
Join date : 2011-09-12

Boy Daniel Gordon 1491 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Boy Daniel Gordon 1491   Boy Daniel Gordon 1491 EmptySat Jan 25, 2020 2:09 pm

Ed
I recently published Studies in the Zulu War vol V which included as part of the Trpr. Granger essay an in-depth study of all the contemporary references to the deaths of the Boys. It's available from Brecon; the shop can be phoned for a mail order.
Julian Whybra
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Kenny



Posts : 395
Join date : 2013-05-07
Location : Brecon

Boy Daniel Gordon 1491 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Boy Daniel Gordon 1491   Boy Daniel Gordon 1491 EmptySun Jan 26, 2020 8:29 am

Ed,

There is a William Gordon, born Greenwich, c1874, living at Watford, possible younger brother of Boy Daniel Gordon on 1881, 1901 and 1911 census.
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Julian Whybra



Posts : 2278
Join date : 2011-09-12

Boy Daniel Gordon 1491 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Boy Daniel Gordon 1491   Boy Daniel Gordon 1491 EmptySun Jan 26, 2020 10:16 am

The 1871 William Gordon of Greenwich had an age of 7 - meaning a birth of 1864 - that's 10 years out from your William Gordon of Watford.
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Kenny



Posts : 395
Join date : 2013-05-07
Location : Brecon

Boy Daniel Gordon 1491 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Boy Daniel Gordon 1491   Boy Daniel Gordon 1491 EmptySun Jan 26, 2020 12:28 pm

Julian,

Sorry, for the slip - too early in the morning before my brain was in gear. Yes, William was born the year after Daniel.
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Ed M



Posts : 7
Join date : 2020-01-20

Boy Daniel Gordon 1491 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Boy Daniel Gordon 1491   Boy Daniel Gordon 1491 EmptyTue Feb 04, 2020 8:00 pm

Just curious what if any medal Boy Daniel Gordon would have been awarded for the Battle at Isandlwana
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Julian Whybra



Posts : 2278
Join date : 2011-09-12

Boy Daniel Gordon 1491 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Boy Daniel Gordon 1491   Boy Daniel Gordon 1491 EmptyTue Feb 04, 2020 8:14 pm

Gordon's Medal: South Africa Medal 1877-9 with clasp 1877-8-9 issued 16/12/1882. Held by The Royal Welsh Museum Brecon, Brecknockshire
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Ed M



Posts : 7
Join date : 2020-01-20

Boy Daniel Gordon 1491 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Boy Daniel Gordon 1491   Boy Daniel Gordon 1491 EmptyTue Feb 04, 2020 9:14 pm

Thank you...I will search for a picture of it
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